LBS and womens bikes

[breeze]

I'm looking for my first road bike, and have been test riding bikes at various shops around town. (So far: Jamis, Trek, Giant). I'm having trouble finding bikes that are small enough. My current bike is a Terry Susan B (hybrid), and I have an old beater MTB (no visible name) that serves as an occasional commuter.

After a long conversation with a Terry rep at BikeNY in May, I was motivated enough to call the company and inquire about having a bike sent to an LBS in my area (closest Terry dealer is about 3.5 hour drive away). I ended up speaking with Georgena, who said that she would find an LBS from her contact list and send me the info to follow up with the shop. She did, and I called the store that afternoon, and was given the general manager's email address. Dropped him an email asking him to call me, and giving him the info about the bike and my reason for contacting him. That was last Wednesday. In the past eight days, I've left three messages, with the response that they would have him call me. I felt like I should be understanding about the holiday and the busy season, but I actually want to ride this bike sometime soon.

How much time/leeway would you give an LBS? Basically, I think this guy is just avoiding my calls. The Terry company indicated that they were willing to send the bike out as soon as I was able to confirm with the GM, but the dude hasn't even called back to see what size, etc, I'm looking for. Apparently last night he was out racing at the track (according to the other employee) and so wouldn't be able to call me back. I sent him an email last night stating that I was about to move on, and he actually called and left me a voice mail this morning stating that he was sorry it had taken him so long to get back to me. Of course, when I called him back ten minutes later, no answer. No returned call today.

The shop does not usually sell Terry bikes, and the closest Terry dealer is 3.5 hours away. I'm willing to go there, but would rather find an LBS that I can build a relationship with here, if possible. At this point, I think this one is not going to work out.

I live in Pittsburgh, and there are other shops in town. Do you think there is any reason that I should stick with this one? Have you run into shops that don't want to bring in smaller bikes for you to try? Any suggestions? I still feel like a newbie, in that this is my first road bike purchase, and I don't want to end up with a bike that doesn't work for me.

[TigerMom]

You are looking to BUY a bike and the LBS is not responding within 1-2 days to your email or your phone calls (assuming that you had the correct email address/LBS phone number). That is definitely NOT a LBS that I would do business with.

Can you imagine if you ever had a bike problem/question....how long would it take the LBS to call you back?

____________________________________

2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle

2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle

[Irulan]

Hi and welcome. Here's my take on it...
It might be worth it for you to take a road trip to the Terry dealer.

In general, some shops don't stock smaller bikes because there isn't as big of demand for them. Or, they will only order one in on condition that you purchase it. ( right) :rolleyes: While it's getting a lot better now, it will really vary from shop to shop.

Back to the Terry. This guy may not get a whole lot of of it from Terry, and that may be the lack of enthusiasm... again, if he gets it together to bring it in for you, he doesn't have any guarantees that you'll buy it and that's his time and money. Just because he's on their list doesn't mean anything, really. This is why I think , if you must try the Terry, go to a Terry dealer that has something invested in the sale.

I'd certainly keep looking for a shop that understands the needs of the small rider. For example, one of my favorite shops here, the owner's wife is 4-11 and an avid cyclist.

[Koronin]

I agree with dumping this LBS. We actually have and do on occasion drive 2 plus hours to a couple of the LBS's in Raleigh, NC. We're at the coast and do have a new very good LBS, but they do not carry a lot of clothing (which I understand in this market), going to a larger city we have more options. As far as the bike it's self and parts the LBS here is great. Well the new one is. I don't care as much for the older one. Until we found the new (opened less than a year, their 1 yr anniversary will be next month). We were actually all set to drive 2 plus hours so I could figure out which bike would be my next purchase.

[kajero]

I recently purchased a 44 cm Specialized WSD Ruby Carbon Compact bike. The LBS had to order it from the company. The saleperson, who is wonderful, said they just don't stock them because there isn't much demand for them. They did have one left in my size from last year which was a really good deal so I did get to test ride it. But I hated the color, so I didn't buy it. The LBS still has it. I am pretty sure that's why they don't stock the smaller sizes. they don't want to mark them down to sell them.

[nuliajuk]

... I am pretty sure that's why they don't stock the smaller sizes. they don't want to mark them down to sell them.
That could happen with any size bike. My Look 566 is a really common size (medium/53cm) and it would probably still be sitting there unsold, last year's model on sale, if I hadn't bought it recently.
Some bike shops are selling on sites like eBay, I've noticed. For a person who does want an unusual size, at either end of the spectrum, it exposes them to a much wider range of choices, and the shop to a wider range of customers.

[breeze]

Thanks for the feedback-- I'm definitely dumping this LBS.

There's another LBS, about a 30-min drive, that I'm going to check out this weekend. They sell Specialized, Trek, and Surly, and have a Dolce that may fit me. If I come in for a fitting, they are willing to order a Terry for me to try, as well.

Depending on how well that goes, I'll probably also get in touch with the Terry dealer that's 3.5 hours away and plan on a weekend trip sometime soon. While they don't have a smaller Symmetry in stock, they said they could get one in for me with 1-2 weeks notice, no problems, no charge/obligation. That's the shop where I bought my first Terry, and I've referred a few other customers their way, so it is a decent option.

[goldfinch]

Thanks for the feedback-- I'm definitely dumping this LBS.

There's another LBS, about a 30-min drive, that I'm going to check out this weekend. They sell Specialized, Trek, and Surly, and have a Dolce that may fit me. If I come in for a fitting, they are willing to order a Terry for me to try, as well.

Depending on how well that goes, I'll probably also get in touch with the Terry dealer that's 3.5 hours away and plan on a weekend trip sometime soon. While they don't have a smaller Symmetry in stock, they said they could get one in for me with 1-2 weeks notice, no problems, no charge/obligation. That's the shop where I bought my first Terry, and I've referred a few other customers their way, so it is a decent option.

Also short (4'10.5") with short arms. The biggest issues I had with bikes was the reach. The 44cm Dolce may work for you, it has a top tube of less than 50cm. This bike has the more standard 700 wheels. I ended up getting a Trek Madone in the 43cm size, which was even more compact. This size was also available on one of their Lexas. (They have 650 wheels, not 700s) Unfortunately, Trek quit making this size and it is not available after 2011, though their might be some 2011 Lexa's around for a good price.

The Felt ZW75 650 in petite is another possibility, again it have a top tube of less than 50cm. It also has the 650 wheels.

I tried the Surly LHT in the 42 size--the reach was too long. Plus, I didn't really want a bike that heavy.

Depending on your size, the Terry may very well be your best bet. I never was able to track one down to try. I had a terrible time finding anything to try out and ended up taking the risk on the Madone without trying it first, after working with a fitter who thought it was the best choice for me. My other option was going custom but impatience for wanting a bike won the day.

[Dogmama]

Run, do not walk, away from this LBS. If they can't be bothered to sell you a bike, what happens if you have a major issue? I would also let the Terry people know why you are not buying from that LBS.

Trust me on this one. Been there, done that & got the t-shirt.

[Triskeliongirl]

What size bike are you looking for? I road terry bikes for years (classical long legs, short torso and arms) and am very happy on my 48cm Cervelo RS w 650c wheels.

[rivergal]

I'd also suggest looking at Felt. My sister at 4'11" has a small ZW95 and likes it a lot.

[breeze]

goldfinch, I'm wondering if reach will be an issue for me. (Probably). Thanks for the Felt suggestion (rivergal, too!)-- I'm going to call the local dealer tomorrow to see what they have in the shop.

Triskeliongirl- the Cervelo is gorgeous! Unfortunately, out of my price range right now (trying to keep this bike under $1200; less would be better, as I'm still in grad school).

Size-wise, I'm slightly less than 5'1", with a 28" inseam. There's an LBS with a Specialized Dolce that I'm hoping to try tomorrow, but they only have the 48 and not the 44, so we'll see how it goes.

[moderncyclista]

The saleperson, who is wonderful, said they just don't stock them because there isn't much demand for them.

*beginning of rant*
I don't quite believe there isn't a demand for smaller bikes.

My LBS doesn't stock them either and I've been their patron for over 10 years. Believe me I see tons of small women go in there and "special order" sight-unseen, lots of bikes. It's then ridiculous when I see them selling those bikes on consignment, a year later because they "don't fit."

Because women aren't a priority in the cycling industry, even though I believe we're the largest growing base!

Also, commuters are the largest growing base, but all I see are road-bikes in all my local shops. One of my LBS just started carrying fixed-gear bikes (Way to be late on that one. Lulz.) and the other never has. I know there is general snobbery in the cycling community, but I don't care what type of bike someone rides as long as they're on a bike!

To sum up, I think that the cycling industry in general is missing out on marketing to women - the demand is there.
*end of rant*

[Owlie]

Moderncyclista, I think you hit the nail on the head. Because women still comprise a relatively small portion of cyclists overall (road, mountain, commute, whatever), it makes more business sense from the shop's perspective to stock what they know is going to move. Likewise, if you go to most LBSes, they dedicate much of their stock to road bikes because the "roadie elite" are probably seen as more likely to plonk down a lot of money in their stores, as opposed to buying a low- to mid-price bike to minimize loss due to theft. I think the money thing is the same in road bike land. A few weeks ago we had a thread about why women didn't ride. One idea that came up repeatedly was "beginner women are less willing to spend a lot of money on a bike." So why stock the higher-end WSD stuff if it's not going to move?

My home LBS is pretty big, with several locations. Their women's road bikes are sadly lacking. They stock the mid-range sizes (48, 51cm), with not much on the high or low end of the bell curve. It's annoying. (And they don't have anything nicer than partial 105 on the floor.)
ETA: And they don't have anything in the way of WSD mountain bikes, either!

[Irulan]

I think it's important to not use a broad brush here. Most of my local shops understand pretty well what women want/need, and the broader community as a whole ( not just road riding). Just because it's not happening in your community doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Owlie]

I think it's important to not use a broad brush here. Most of my local shops understand pretty well what women want/need, and the broader community as a whole ( not just road riding). Just because it's not happening in your community doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I agree, but I think it's regional. The guy who did my fitting at my LBS, when I mentioned something about it being hard to find WSD bikes, even in that LBS (the area's largest), said that they'd love to offer more things that aren't pastel cruisers or lower-end road bikes (not that there's anything wrong with either of these!) but from a business perspective they have a hard time justifying it because they don't move as fast. They're trying to have a frame in each size that's representative of the line at least somewhere in their system, but it still means that you either have to drive all over the region or wait several days to be able to test it.
But then, this is bass-ackward Ohio, so I'm sure it's better in the PNW and other more bike-friendly parts of the country.

[breeze]

OK, so I rode a Specialized Dolce compact 48cm and Trek Madone 50cm this morning. The LBS guy was very thorough in fit, I think, putting me through the BodyCRM scanner, changing the stem on the Dolce and adjusting the saddle position after measuring with a plumb line. I was probably there for about three hours on just the two bikes. He talked about putting the bike up on the trainer and doing more adjustments after I found the right bike.

I did like my riding position on the Dolce, though my wrists/hands were sore after about the first 15 minutes. Not sure whether that is due to the new angle, to fit issues, or both. After my first ride on the Dolce and adjusting the saddle, the wrist issue eased a little. I found it somewhat hard to reach the brakes with my hands on the hoods, and could only brake with my lower two fingers. He mentioned that they could add a shim to make everything slightly closer. Is that normal? Also, I was really struggling to get on the saddle and moving because I was having some trouble touching my foot down. How much should I be able to reach the ground from the saddle?
I wish they'd had the 44 Dolce so that I could compare, though LBS guy insisted that it would be too small, and that I really needed something between the 44 and 48.

I expected to like the Madone a lot more, but I think that it was waaay too big. 50cm meant a 51.7 effective top tube, and I was stretching like mad. Of course there was nothing smaller in shop. They won't order the Terry for me unless I commit to buying it or unless Terry pays to take it back. Need to find out if they still have that offer, and figure out whether I want to deal with that. I'm feeling somewhat stuck in that I think this LBS guy was great and really paid attention to fit, but that out of a huge store with probably 100 or so bikes on display, there were only two for me to try, and both seemed a bit big. Obviously I can't make myself taller, but gosh, looking at all of those shiny bikes that weren't my size-- well, that was depressing. We had a separate convo about cyclocross bikes, but same problem-- nothing remotely my size in the shop.

Thinking about trying to hit the Trek concept shop tonight before they close. We'll see. I'm going to call the Terry dealer that's 3.5 hrs away (in Columbus) and see how quickly they could get in a bike for me to try, and then perhaps schedule a weekend trip later in June.

I'm also back to thinking about the Surly. While most of my current riding is on paved trails, one of my goals has been to ride part of the GAP trail between Pittsburgh and Washington, DC. Its a crushed limestone rail trail. So perhaps I need to think more about what I want to do with this bike, too. I want to go fast and far, but maybe I need to compromise.

[Irulan]

Sounds like you had a thorough fit! There are still adjustments they can make. My hoods got fiddled with a lot, both rotating them in some and rotating them up some - it was huge.

Now, I'm not as small as you, but you may not be able to put a foot down easily and you'll just have to get used to it.

Before the trek haters come on board... I LOVE my madone. One of my buddies is very small and riders the 47 and is very happy.

[Dogmama]

Before the trek haters come on board... I LOVE my madone. One of my buddies is very small and riders the 47 and is very happy.

Me? I don't hate my Trek. I just hate the service at the concept store and Trek WI. To the OP, I have a lemon of a concept store. There are probably good ones out there. If you have a good LBS you should never need to go to Trek WI.

The bike is great. I think that fact got lost in all of the talk about the service. It weighs practically nothing. The acceleration is incredible. Overall handling is awesome. The carbon fiber is really nice - stiff enough for good energy transfer but not punishing.

[emily_in_nc]

You are a little smaller than me -- I'm 5'2" and have a 28.5" cycling inseam and long femurs. I was perfectly fitted on my 17.5" Terry Isis back in the day and have also had a 46 cm bike that fit me. I can also ride a 47cm Trek (possibly needing a slightly shorter stem on that one).

I am sure there may be some models/brands in which a 48 cm would work for me that I have not had the opportunity to try, but I can't imagine any bike that would fit me in a 50-51cm.

Just wanted to chime in for comparison purposes. I think it's actually quite possible that a 44 cm would fit you, but no way to know until you try one.

Good luck!

[Artista]

I'd encourage you to at least test ride a Terry before you make up your mind. I'm a small woman and was never comfortable on a road bike until I got on a Terry. I'm not sure what their policy is on taking back a stock bike if you don't like it but it's worth a call to the company to find out.

[nuliajuk]

... Also, I was really struggling to get on the saddle and moving because I was having some trouble touching my foot down. How much should I be able to reach the ground from the saddle?

...I'm also back to thinking about the Surly. While most of my current riding is on paved trails, one of my goals has been to ride part of the GAP trail between Pittsburgh and Washington, DC. Its a crushed limestone rail trail. So perhaps I need to think more about what I want to do with this bike, too. I want to go fast and far, but maybe I need to compromise.
You should not be expecting to put your foot on the ground from the saddle. This can be done by cruiser riders on things like Electras with the extreme (almost semi-recumbent) seat tube angle. On a normal road bike, you'd have to have the saddle far too low to be able to do that.
The usual way to start on a road bike is with one foot on the ground, the other on a pedal (usually the right, if you're right-handed) at the high side of the pedal stroke. Push off, find the other pedal in a standing position, then sit down.
If you're feeling stretched out on the WSD bikes you've been trying, a Surly (unless it's very tiny) will probably feel even more so. I looked at their frame geometry charts a couple years ago when searching for a touring bike and found that the top tubes were quite long compared with other makes in the same size.

[Catrin]

You should not be expecting to put your foot on the ground from the saddle. This can be done by cruiser riders on things like Electras with the extreme (almost semi-recumbent) seat tube angle. On a normal road bike, you'd have to have the saddle far too low to be able to do that......

If you're feeling stretched out on the WSD bikes you've been trying, a Surly (unless it's very tiny) will probably feel even more so. I looked at their frame geometry charts a couple years ago when searching for a touring bike and found that the top tubes were quite long compared with other makes in the same size.

Yes, for most bikes you can't expect to be able to touch more than your toes to the ground if your seat-post is adjusted to the right height to give you proper leg extension. If your legs aren't extended properly in the stroke then you will eventually develop injuries related to this. That being said, what many do is to start with the seat-post a little lower than optimum and then gradually raise the saddle height to the correct height (having marked it before lowering it a bit). This helps provide more confidence while building skills.

As far as the LHT is concerned. It is a touring bike with a different geometry than a "regular" road bike (however you define that), it is meant to stretch you out a bit more for those all-day long loaded touring rides. While a touring bike is a type of road bike, it isn't an apples to apples comparison. My first bike was a Trek (7.6FX) I bought it before I realized that Trek doesn't make one small enough - well, really, proportioned properly for me. I've fit issues beyond my size and nothing in the FX line comes close to fitting me.

The Trek experience led me to purchase a LHT as my next bike and I found that the LHT fit me FAR better even though it had a longer TT. So far I've not ridden a WSD that actually fit me, and I am short. The LHT was an awesome bike, and while I did convert the bike from drops to flat bars, it wasn't due to reach problems.

This is a long-winded way to tell you not to write off the LHT before finding one to test ride if possible. The LHT is all-day long comfortable, but it is heavy as it is meant for fully-loaded touring and the smaller sizes could be said to be over-built and perhaps a little too stable. I loved mine, and while I did eventually sell mine for reasons unrelated to the bike, I will always have fond memories of it.

[jessmarimba]

Just wanted to chime in - I can touch my toes (just my toes) to the ground when I'm on the saddle and it's adjusted properly - but I have big feet. If your feet are proportional to your height, you probably won't be able to do that :)

[ny biker]

You should not be expecting to put your foot on the ground from the saddle. This can be done by cruiser riders on things like Electras with the extreme (almost semi-recumbent) seat tube angle. On a normal road bike, you'd have to have the saddle far too low to be able to do that.
The usual way to start on a road bike is with one foot on the ground, the other on a pedal (usually the right, if you're right-handed) at the high side of the pedal stroke. Push off, find the other pedal in a standing position, then sit down.
If you're feeling stretched out on the WSD bikes you've been trying, a Surly (unless it's very tiny) will probably feel even more so. I looked at their frame geometry charts a couple years ago when searching for a touring bike and found that the top tubes were quite long compared with other makes in the same size.

I think it's easier to find the second pedal if you sit down as soon as you push off with the first pedal. You're more stable at low speeds when you're seated.

[Crankin]

If you are having trouble reaching the brakes from the hoods, then the reach is too far. Most people have trouble reaching the brakes from the drops, requiring shims or short reach levers. You might also want to look at "short and shallow" bars. The type of curve on the bar made a huge difference for me.
I am 5' 1" (maybe a little less now?) and I had a Trek 5200 (the precursor to the Madone) in a 47 cm. I had no issues with the overall size/fit, but I never really was able to get into the drops comfortably. Since then I bought a unisex frame and built it up with my own components. Getting a the Specialized bar with short and shallow drops, as well as the Ultegra short reach levers made biggest difference in the world. There are several companies that make these typs of bars.
I recently had a custom road bike with more relaxed geometry built for me. I found that they no longer make the Ultegra short reach brakes/levers. I got the new short reach 105s, but the reach is a few mm longer. This, combined with a slightly different bar still gets me comfortably into the drops, but I have to put my hands much further up into the curve to brake there. I am thinking about switching out to the Specialized bars on this bike, as the ones on there, while much more expensive, have bars angled down, in the newer style and I like the traditionally curved ones.
As everyone said, you should not be able to reach the ground with your feet, while on the saddle. I can put a toe down, if my bike is leaning, though.

[NadiaMac]

Re the specialized 44 vs 48 , they do not look all that different when you look at the frame geometries (stack and reach are only about 1cm smaller on the 44). So you might want to give that a try.

For what its worth I am considerably taller than you (5'4" with 30 inch inseam) but with a short torso and arms and very small hands, and I ride bikes that are somewhat smaller than the ones you are trying. Of course a lot of this has to do with flexibility, proportions and preference for your position, but it may be that the frames you tried are too big. You report that your hands and wrists hurt after a short test ride and that you cant reach the brakes from the tops of the hoods- it sounds like the reach is too big on these bikes. You should be able to brake from the tops.

On the brake reach- SRAM rival has an adjustable lever. This plus small bars, etc (as others described above) make it possible for me to brake from the tops and drops. Shimano brakes can be Jerry rigged with spacers to create a similar effect

[Koronin]

You may want to try the slightly smaller bikes, the 44cm Specialized and the 47cm Trek. I'm just a bit shorter than you are and would ride those sizes. Although I typically prefer the men's bike's geometry since I do have a bit shorter legs and a bit longer torso and arms. On that note it's virtually impossible to find LBS stores that stock the small frames in the men's versions as well. My old Trek store in the Charlotte area always keeps at least one of the smaller (47cm) Lexa's at one of their two stores. (They never stocked the smaller one that is now no longer made). Also a Specialized dealer in Raleigh always keeps at least 1 44cm Dolce in stock at one of their two stores. However, neither store stocks the small men's bikes. Now are new local Specialized/Felt store does have the smaller sized women's mountain bikes in stock and the Lexa, although they do not stock women's Felt bikes and only one of the Z line, they do stock several of the F series, and a different size in each of the ones they have a floor model of. (Although not the smallest one). They do stock (at least part of the time) 1 of the smallest of the men's Specialized bikes, although you never know which frame it will be. They really don't stock a lot of clothing (men or women's), but do stock tons of types of shoes and helmets. Although if I'm looking for clothing we go to Raleigh and check out Preformance (either in Cary or in Raleigh, although I prefer the Raleigh store). Now Performance stocks at least one example of each size of each of brands and types they carry.

[jyyanks]

Is the LBS willing to order you a 44 Dolce or 47 Trek? Only asking because my LBS was willing to do order me one at no obligation because they recognized that it was a size they didn't have in stock, and that they should carry at least one bike in that size for smaller size women to try (they have 4 stores and none of them stocked anything smaller than a 48).

They originally had me on a 48 (I'm 5'0 with a 26 inch inseam) and they were going to adjust it for me but another salesman realized that I was reaching out too far and he spoke to the manager and got a 44 approved. I think they saw that I was serious about the bike and figured that even if I didn't end up buying it, it would still be good to have on the floor.

Is there a Jamis dealer near you? I tried one of the smaller Jamis bikes as well but didn't like the fell of it as much as I liked the Specialized.

[breeze]

Thanks so much, everyone, for all of the feedback. I'm still looking at bikes locally (hoping to ride a Jamis Satellite tonight if the weather cooperates), and maybe a Felt this weekend.

I called the Terry dealer that is 3.5 hours from me and was super excited to hear that they have both the 44x50 and 46x50 Symmetry on the floor right now. I can't make the trip this weekend, but perhaps next weekend?? They offered to bring in any other Terry that I'd like to try, too. :D

Going back to the great LBS I visited this weekend-- I don't think they are thrilled with the idea of bringing in the 44 Dolce for me to try; the salesguy was pretty firm in that he thought it would be too small for me, and the same with the Trek 47. Not sure if he thought I wasn't serious enough, or if he's just worried that the shop would be stuck with the smaller bikes or what. An off note in an otherwise good experience there. Regarding the Trek, though: there's a group of three Trek concept shops in town, so I may be able to ride the smaller sizes through one of those. There are a ton of Trek authorized dealers around the area, too, so I'm less concerned about that (though bummed that Trek eliminated the Madone 43 for 2012).

I'm really leaning towards getting a "go fast" bike for now and finding a heavier touring/sort of CX bike for rail trails later. It seems like my mind changes daily on this, though, so grain of salt and all that. ;) I have to say that I never thought I'd want/need more than one bike and now I want ALL of the bikes! I can picture myself with several in my "stable" for years to come, and I'm pretty sure that DH is just as hooked... now I just need to finish grad school and make some money to afford all of these nice bikes!

[Possegal]

As a native of the 'burgh I'm curious what LBS you found that you like a lot. Always good to know a good place back home as well as one local to me here. :)

[breeze]

As a native of the 'burgh I'm curious what LBS you found that you like a lot. Always good to know a good place back home as well as one local to me here. :)

The great LBS is Dirty Harry's, out in Verona. They were really busy on Saturday, and still made me feel like the only customer in the shop. Plus, while I was out riding, they fit DH for a bike so that he could ride, too-- totally great.

The terrible LBS that wouldn't return my calls is Pro Bikes in Squirrel Hill, and the guy that I contacted (5 times) was their general manager for all three of their stores. Still waiting for that return call/email... not holding my breath, obviously. :rolleyes:

[Possegal]

Thanks! Good info. There is a Pro Bikes in the South Hills (where I'm from) and I've bought clothing there but nothing more. My family usually has their bikes serviced at West Liberty Cycles, as we can walk to them. Small store but I know they've been happy with them. I've again only bought clothing there. :)

[nuliajuk]

...
This is a long-winded way to tell you not to write off the LHT before finding one to test ride if possible. The LHT is all-day long comfortable, but it is heavy as it is meant for fully-loaded touring and the smaller sizes could be said to be over-built and perhaps a little too stable. I loved mine, and while I did eventually sell mine for reasons unrelated to the bike, I will always have fond memories of it.
I have a very short torso and arms relative to my height, so the touring bike I already have - much shorter top tube than a LHT - fits me very comfortably on long rides. Plus, it's lighter than a Surly. I tried being "stretched out" years ago on the advice of bike shop employees and just ended up with a very sore neck.

[Catrin]

I have a very short torso and arms relative to my height, so the touring bike I already have - much shorter top tube than a LHT - fits me very comfortably on long rides. Plus, it's lighter than a Surly. I tried being "stretched out" years ago on the advice of bike shop employees and just ended up with a very sore neck.

It sounds like you already have a touring bike that works for you, sweet! I am not stretched out at all on the LHT myself, I was just referring to the slacker geometry of a touring bike. Personally I ride a slightly smaller size bike than my inseam and reach might suggest because I require a VERY upright riding position due to neck and hand issues myself.

[breeze]

I'm going to ride the Terry (and others) at the out of town dealer this morning, hippety hop! Woke up early, even. I can't wait to get to the LBS!

[TigerMom]

I'm going to ride the Terry (and others) at the out of town dealer this morning, hippety hop! Woke up early, even. I can't wait to get to the LBS!

Superexcited for you and we can't wait to see what you end up getting!

____________________________________

2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle

2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle

[emily_in_nc]

If you're not happy with the Terrys, you might try to find a Felt. I saw this one (http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2012/Fit-Woman/ZW-Series/ZW95-650.aspx)in my LBS today. Tiny! Only available in petite (with 650 tires), which might be too small for you, but they have a lot of good women's options. And I suspect they are considerably cheaper than the Terrys.

That Felt looks nice, but the Geometry tab seems to do nothing. That's a bad thing as geometry is SO important!

[Koronin]

For the geometry tab to work you have to go to the main page and go back to that bike: Here's the geometry info:
Medium Petite Small Tall
Head Tube Angle 72 71.5 71.5 72.5
Seat Tube Angle 74.5 75.5 75.3 74
Top Tube Horizontal 525 497 515 545
Top Tube Center to Center 507 483 499 525
Head Tube Length 140 130 120 160
Seat Tube Center to Top 470 430 450 500
Seat Tube Center to Center 429 390 407 447
Bottom Bracket Drop 70 45 70 70
Chainstay Length 417 400 417 417
Front Center 584 561 584 595
Wheelbase 991 956 991 1002
Rake 50 40 50 50
Standover Height 726 675 702 749
Seat Post Diameter 27.2 27.2 27.2 27.2
Fork Length 370 370 370 370
Lower HS Stack 1 1 1 1
Reach 374 362 377 384
Stack 541 507 520 561

[emily_in_nc]

Thanks, Koronin! :)

[breeze]

So... I'm still undecided. The LBS wasn't exactly as helpful as I thought/hoped they would be, and they didn't have the bike that I really wanted to try (Symmetry 44X50 with 650c wheels) built up. I rode two different versions of the 46 Symmetry (flat bar and drop handlebars) and the 44 Terry Tailwind. There was some confusion in the shop because the bikes are labeled S, XS, etc on the seat tube (and not numbered) so the sales dude assumed that S was the size that I needed. After I rode it, I made him go and get the chart, because it didn't feel correct to me-- lo and behold, S is the 46, XS is the 44, and XXS is the 42.

The 46 is definitely too much of a reach for me, though I found the flat bar to be more comfortable than the drop handlebars. This makes me wonder if part of the problem is that I'm just not used to the more aggressive riding position. I had a lot of forearm discomfort/pain within about 15 minutes on the 46 Symmetry drop bars; some discomfort on the 44 Tailwind with drop handlebars, much less on the 46 flat bar. I wondered if I was locking my elbows with the 46 due to stretching, but did feel discomfort with the 44, possibly because I'm not used to putting my weight on my arms much at all when I'm riding.

I was having some trouble with reaching the brake levers in a comfortable way. I have small hands and my stopping distance was really increased while riding on the hoods because I was finding it so hard to push the levers. I know that it is possible to add shims to the Shimanos, but is that the only solution for this? Are there brakes that are known to be smaller that I should be thinking about, or ways to adjust the levers that would bring things even closer? Looking at the front of the brakes, I think my fingers are hitting the top part, right below the pivot point, which may be making it more difficult. Also, only my index and middle finger are even able to graze the lever when my hands are on the hoods.


So, I'm thinking about a few things right now:

1) This shop was kind of unhelpful in getting the bike adjusted or any kind of fit dialed in. The guys on the floor were young, and I had to point out the various bikes and sizes to them. I didn't get a chance to try the exact bike that I was interested in buying (in the correct size). On the other hand, I had zero issues with standover, and much less stretched out feeling on the 650c wheels and shorter effective top tubes on the Terry bikes, even with the too-big 46. I haven't ruled out the Terry Symmetry, but it wasn't the "Cinderella slipper" of a bike that I'd hoped.

2) I want to go back and try the Specialized Dolce again, but try to find a smaller model if possible. I also liked the secondary brake levers, though I had the same reach issues with the main levers and my small hands.

3) I'm motivated to try to find a Felt dealer with a petite bike (thanks for the suggestion, Muirenn! We're on the same page!) and looked around on Saturday. I called three dealers while I was in Columbus, with no luck-- the general comment was "We don't sell them because they don't sell." I'll be calling around locally tomorrow morning to see if there's anything nearby.



The spouse has been helpful during this process, though I think he was hoping that I'd find the perfect bike yesterday. He's getting slightly sick of holding my helmet, license, and keys while I question the shop guys, but I think its because he just wants to spend Saturdays riding together instead of testing new bikes. (He's getting a new bike, too, but his process has been vastly different and easier, as he's 5'10 with long arms.)

[Koronin]

Emily, You're welcome.

breeze, good luck. I hope you can find a Felt dealer that has a bike you can try. I love my Felt. I also know through experience (hubby's actually) that all bikes do not work for all people. He first bought a Canondale and that was just totally the wrong geometry for him. He also bought a Felt F 5 and it's so much better for him. So keep looking until you find the right bike for you.

[MGM]

I was having some trouble with reaching the brake levers in a comfortable way. I have small hands and my stopping distance was really increased while riding on the hoods because I was finding it so hard to push the levers. I know that it is possible to add shims to the Shimanos, but is that the only solution for this? Are there brakes that are known to be smaller that I should be thinking about, or ways to adjust the levers that would bring things even closer? Looking at the front of the brakes, I think my fingers are hitting the top part, right below the pivot point, which may be making it more difficult. Also, only my index and middle finger are even able to graze the lever when my hands are on the hoods.



Hmm, I had this issue also, even though I'm taller than you at 5'6". However my very long legs placed me on a 54cm bike, and many shifters and levers were hard to fully engage. I found the Ultegra equipped bikes more comfortable on my hands, as was Apex. And yes, the LBS can shim.

Felt does make very good, comfortable bikes at very competitive prices. Specialized is higher priced, but rides really nice. IMO. :)

[Anyabeth]

I read through this with interest because even though I am taller and was a much easier fit for my LBS I has some similar experiences. The shop guys seemed much less knowledgable about the WSD bikes (which I guess since they don't ride them . . .) and really wanted to put me on a men's bike. I didn't object but kept having problems because though I am 5'7" my hands are tiny and the reach for my hands was tough.

Gear and clothing selection for women was also less than half of that for men. There was only one pair of shorts in my size and they were $150. This is especially frustrating to me since I am a new rider and don't really know how things fit. Since they don't seem to have female employees there wasn't anyone I could really ask.

It is interesting because I feel like I had a pretty decent experience overall and they were certainly trying to be welcoming towards women riders. But a few small things would go a long way to make them more friendly.

This shop did admit that they sell a lot of special order bikes in the smaller sizes. But they still didn't want to stock much under a 48. I should give them credit because they do carry women's sizes in mountain bikes and small cyclecross.

[Custardcup1]

Try a Felt, I don't think you will be sorry. I researched every bike out there for myself, 4'10" with a 25 inseam. Nothing and i mean nothing fit me except the Felt. I absolutely love it and now realize how big my Trek 7.2 Hybrid was, not the right size at all!! The Felt is so light and pretty and flies down the hills. I couldn't be happier.

[Owlie]

I read through this with interest because even though I am taller and was a much easier fit for my LBS I has some similar experiences. The shop guys seemed much less knowledgable about the WSD bikes (which I guess since they don't ride them . . .) and really wanted to put me on a men's bike. I didn't object but kept having problems because though I am 5'7" my hands are tiny and the reach for my hands was tough.

Gear and clothing selection for women was also less than half of that for men. There was only one pair of shorts in my size and they were $150. This is especially frustrating to me since I am a new rider and don't really know how things fit. Since they don't seem to have female employees there wasn't anyone I could really ask.

It is interesting because I feel like I had a pretty decent experience overall and they were certainly trying to be welcoming towards women riders. But a few small things would go a long way to make them more friendly.

This shop did admit that they sell a lot of special order bikes in the smaller sizes. But they still didn't want to stock much under a 48. I should give them credit because they do carry women's sizes in mountain bikes and small cyclecross.

I just started working for a large chain bike shop. A woman and her husband came in looking for entry-level road bikes. He was 6'2", she was 5'1". We had nothing in road bikes for her, because we don't seem to have a 44cm on the floor, and maybe one that would fit him. It sucks from both sides : You can't get what you need (I've been there too), and they can't help you get what you need , which is disappointing. Sadly, if you don't fit within a certain range of sizes and proportions, bike shopping sucks.

[zoom-zoom]

Sadly, if you don't fit within a certain range of sizes and proportions, bike shopping sucks.

I'm not even all that outside of "average," but I live in a region that is heavily Dutch (the tallest ethnic group on the planet), so my 5'3.5" puts me solidly in the "short" category. As a result I have a hard time finding bikes to test ride, especially since our LBS of choice is a small shop. I have come to depend upon our LBS friend to determine in advance whether a bike will be a good fit for me--and so far he's done a pretty good job. My CX bike is actually the only one that was actually on the shop floor in advance. For months he was "suggesting" that bike to me. And it's the best fitting bike of any I've ridden.

I'm now in the market for a 29er and have it narrowed down to 2 bikes. I'm pretty much going to make the final decision based upon what Mike recommends, most likely. We've ridden hundreds (thousands?) of miles together, so he has a pretty good idea what will work for me--probably better than I could figure out on my own, since I'm still a noob.

[breeze]

Bringing this back to say thanks to everyone for the advice! I've narrowed it down to two Felts-- the ZW75 and a 2010 ZW5. Both are on year-end sale. I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on the ZW5, which has been discounted a lot.

Something else I'm thinking: would it be weird for me to try to bargain with the LBS if we buy two bikes there? DH has been thinking about a Jamis...

[macski]

I'm now in the market for a 29er and have it narrowed down to 2 bikes.

Which ones are on your short list, zoom-zoom?

[zoom-zoom]

Which ones are on your short list, zoom-zoom?

It was the Cannondale Tango SL and the Salsa El Mariachi 3. I ended up going with the Salsa and am VERY happy. I've only managed 2 short rides, since I've been battling chronic back issues that flared-up bad just in time for the arrival of my bike. And now this week the weather is going all to Hell. But so far I think our LBS has once again steered me towards a really great fitting bike, sight unseen.
http://zoomy.smugmug.com/photos/i-JLCq8dj/0/L/i-JLCq8dj-L.jpg

[breeze]

zoom-zoom, that is one gorgeous bike! Great fall pics!

[zoom-zoom]

I got that bike just in time! High winds kicked-in the next day and leaves are no longer clinging to very many trees at all.

[macski]

It was the Cannondale Tango SL and the Salsa El Mariachi 3. I ended up going with the Salsa and am VERY happy. I've only managed 2 short rides, since I've been battling chronic back issues that flared-up bad just in time for the arrival of my bike. And now this week the weather is going all to Hell. But so far I think our LBS has once again steered me towards a really great fitting bike, sight unseen.
http://zoomy.smugmug.com/photos/i-JLCq8dj/0/L/i-JLCq8dj-L.jpg

Zoom-zoom - gorgeous looking bike thanks for answering my question. Sadly I don't know of an LBS in my area that stocks that brand - the consequence of Australia being a small market.

I asked because I'm looking in to an entry level 29er to see if I like it. It will mostly be for riding fire trails in the mountains - cough - or at least what we call mountains in Australia.

I looked at the Cannondale but that was a bit out of my price bracket. My partner bought a Trek Mamba and I was going to do the same but in the end went for a Trek Cali S (the WSD version of the Mamba) - I felt I needed more stand over clearance anticipating a degree of risk of having to leap off the bike suddenly as I have no experience on dirt trails.

I was a bit reluctant at first because I thought the Cali S looks a bit too girlie for me but I suppose I'll get used to it. We don't get the stock arriving in Australia until 10 Dec though - I'm sooooo not good at waiting.