Traffic situation

[Catrin]

I've no traffic concerns on the way to work, at that time of the morning the traffic is as sparse as on my country roads. The return commute is quite different, but half of it is off-road and it isn't bad. There is, however, a light that has caused me the same problems both times I've taken this route home.

There is just a lot of traffic in this corridor, and this portion of the street is 2 lanes only (1 each direction). Traffic tends to back up at this light during much of the day and there is no shoulder. I had planned to just ride slowly up beside the vehicles, but in the end there isn't much room for that and today a car pulled over to the right so I couldn't do that. I eventually wound up getting off the bike and walking it through the intersection.

Is that the best way to approach this situation, or is it better to just become a tiny little "car" and take my place in line taking up the middle of the lane? I don't want to p*ss off someone if I can help it so am just trying to figure out the wisest approach. I am just not accustomed to dealing with this level of traffic so I need to think my way through it and I think this intersection will always be an issue for me.

[carlotta]

If traffic generally makes it through the light in one cycle, I'd just pretend to be a car, and *maybe* move right as people get moving if it's wide enough/you're comfortable with people passing you as they speed up. If you have any doubt about that, stay in the middle of the lane, they can wait.

If traffic takes a couple cycles to get through the light, I would try to avoid sitting in traffic (breathing exhaust is fun...). Either do the right side filter like you did, or is there a sidewalk you could jump on, get to the crosswalk, and walk your bike across? (or carefully jump back into stopped traffic at the front/right of the lane) Not sure how popular/proper those options are, but I'll do either from time to time.

[Catrin]

Thanks for your comments Carlotta. There is a pretty sharp edge of pavement right there and they are also doing road work. I COULD get over in the grass but things get funky closer to the intersection and I think it would be difficult to get back into the flow of traffic. Today the light changed twice...and I hate to breathe that exhaust. Obviously I will need to play it by ear for each commute - and there really isn't a better route.

[Melalvai]

Riding up the right side is generally a very bad idea and puts you at risk of a right hook. Drivers aren't expecting to see a bike there.

I'd take my place in line. If the road is wide enough to share the lane, then once traffic gets moving you can move toward the right. If it is not wide enough, keep your place in the middle of the lane, and cars can pass you using the left lane when it is clear of oncoming traffic.

Here's a really helpful and well done video (http://commuteorlando.com/ontheroad/animations/narrowlane/narrowlane.html) that demonstrates "taking the lane" and why it is a good idea any time the lane is not wide enough to share.

[hebe]

I get a similar situation to this when queuing for the roundabout near my home. I can't go on the pavement (sidewalk) as I have the trailer on the back. I take the lane (well I have to really, with the trailer), and either scoot the bike with my feet, or wait until the gap ahead of me is long enough to justify pushing off. dh reminded me that just because a car crawls 6inches forward doesn't mean that I have to. Re the fumes - I just console myself with the fact that cyclists breathe in less exhaust fumes than everyone sat in the queue in their cars.

[lph]

If there's not much room, it sounds like you should just stay in line. That is always an acceptable and legal solution. It can piss off drivers if you move very slowly, like up a hill for instance, so it helps traffic flow if you're alert, prepared to start quickly and move over a little if appropriate. But do stay centred and visible if there's road work and you need to keep your place.

I will ride up next to cars at a few intersections I know well, where I know there is space for me in front, and I can see I have time, as long as cars are standing still. But moving cars, even the ones slowing down, are very dangerous. The drivers are paying attention to the traffic or the light directly in front of them, and have no idea of what's going on right next to them. A car slowing down will sometimes veer to the right for some reason, like to get a glance ahead, and if you're there you suddenly have nowhere to go.

[lovelygamer]

I would take my place in line, although eating exhaust is no fun. Any tucking to the side at intersections makes you hard to see and easy to be taken advantage of. Intersections are always the worst part of my rides.

[Becky]

From your description, I'd take the lane and stay in line.

[soprano]

If the traffic is backed up for a stoplight, you shouldn't have any trouble keeping up. Merge and take the lane. Make sure you're far enough left in the lane for oncoming left-turning traffic to see you. If you're keeping up there's no reason for anyone to be unhappy with you. Just don't cut in line.

Sometimes a driver will come up on the left and try to pass or cut you off in this situation. Don't let them freak you out, keep a lid on your temper, and you'll be fine.

[owlice]

If you want to be considered traffic (all the rights and responsibilities of the road), be traffic! Add me to the list of those suggesting you take the lane. Safer for everyone.

[Catrin]

Thanks for all of the good advice. I wasn't very comfortable with my approach yesterday (trying to filter up the right side) but couldn't pin-point why. If I take my place in line then, frankly, I should be able to WALK my bike to keep up until I am free to ride.

I don't generally have any problems taking the lane when I need to, but that light is just odd how it works (for those in Indy, this is the light at 56th and Kessler - WB on 56th). Thanks again!

[malkin]

What everybody said, but still, I sometimes hop off and become a genuine pedestrian.

But I NEVER pretend to be a pedestrian while I am riding.

[Catrin]

What everybody said, but still, I sometimes hop off and become a genuine pedestrian.

But I NEVER pretend to be a pedestrian while I am riding.

Agreed - and that was finally what I chose to do yesterday - hopped off the bike and just walked it through the intersection and then waited for the traffic to pass before becoming a cyclist again. I am focusing on trying to be as predictable as possible.

I have had two situations (not while commuting) where a drive appeared to interpret my hand signal to mean that I wanted them to drive on that side :eek: That taught me to never assume that drivers actually know what hand signals mean...

[Melalvai]

I have had two situations (not while commuting) where a drive appeared to interpret my hand signal to mean that I wanted them to drive on that side :eek: That taught me to never assume that drivers actually know what hand signals mean...
I know!! How do you signal a right turn? So many people raise their left hand to signal a right turn, but too many drivers don't understand what that means. Pointing to the right is more universally understood to mean you are turning right, and it is becoming more commonly accepted (and legal).

[malkin]

I use the left hand bent up at the elbow to signal right (same as when I learned to drive an ancient VW with no turn signals). It always cracks me up when people 'wave back.'

[Catrin]

I use the left hand bent up at the elbow to signal right (same as when I learned to drive an ancient VW with no turn signals). It always cracks me up when people 'wave back.'

This is generally what I do, though I go back and for between this and using my right arm to point to the right for a right turn. I do wonder if people even look for a signal from the right arm...

The two times I've almost been creamed though over misconstrued hand signals has been when I've given the turning left signal - how more clear could it be? Either they had no idea what it meant, or they were so distracted that all they could think of was speeding around me. Thankfully it's been some time since I last had a problem with this.

[Crankin]

Today we had a driver pass DH when he was making a left into a parking lot. He was signaling and was in the lane. The person couldn't wait, accelerated and went around him :eek:. Of course, DH saw it, but still... the same thing happened a couple of weeks ago when we were leading a ride. A driver (in a Prius, no less) decided he couldn't wait for our small group (10, plus DH and I) to turn left. He passed DH so close that DH was able to pound his car and get his plate #. He also cut off 6 or 7 of the other riders in our group. Since I was sweeping, I saw the whole thing and all I could think was "I am going to have to have to write one of those accident reports for AMC." This was on a country road, in Concord, about 3 miles from my house.
What is wrong with these people? We were "taking the lane," and I guess they must have been pissed we were.

[ny biker]

I've also had drivers pass on my left while I'm signaling a left turn. Last year I was almost rear-ended by a car when I stopped to let oncoming traffic pass before turning left, despite the fact that I started signaling well before the turn and still had my left arm out while I waited.

I used to signal right turns with my left arm, like they taught in drivers' ed, but last year I decided to start signaling them with my right arm. Unfortunately I'm very unstable with my right hand off the handlebars. I've had to train myself to remain steady while holding the bar with my left hand only.

BTW with the advent of Capital Bikeshare in DC, there are many more cyclists in the city than there used to be. And so few of them signal turns. It drives me crazy. As a driver, there is a lot that you have to be scanning for on busy city streets, and forcing me to guess what cyclists are doing makes it that much harder for me to drive safely near them.

[Crankin]

I also used to signal right with my left hand up, but I switched to using my right hand about 5 years ago. Like NY Biker, I also am very unstable taking my right hand off of the bar. In the beginning of a ride, I can barely do it.
In the instance of the person passing on the left when we were leading the group, I think he or she was just pissed at seeing another group of cyclists. There were several special things going on around here that day, cycling, running, and one of the main streets was closed for electronic recycling day.
Yesterday, well, I think they are not used to seeing and dealing with cyclists in the way they are here. Not that it's an excuse, but I really think some people don't know we are supposed to act like cars or realize how fast we can go. In both cases I think DH should have called the police, especially yesterday, but he didn't want to spend the time.

[Catrin]

I also used to signal right with my left hand up, but I switched to using my right hand about 5 years ago. Like NY Biker, I also am very unstable taking my right hand off of the bar. In the beginning of a ride, I can barely do it...

Thanks Crankin, this makes me feel better. The main reason I use my left arm to signal a right turn is I too am unstable taking my right hand off the bar. I can do anything I want with my left, that isn't a problem. I really don't want to do something that I KNOW makes me unstable in the middle of traffic. I can do it briefly, but not long enough to make me confident that the driver saw it.

I've also read the argument that drivers aren't looking for/don't notice so much right-handed signals, but frankly I don't think there is merit to that argument. Cars have turn signals on the right side, after all!

[WindingRoad]

I too use my hand and arm to point to the direction I'm turning. I think it's better too b/c it's a bigger movement and I have screaming yellow gloves I wear when I commute so they HAVE to see my turnsignals :rolleyes: I'm surprised those gloves don't require batteries. I am familiar with that intersection at that time and I think if you are sitting in traffic and its backed up then it shouldn't be so bad b/c you can get going about as fast as they can. If you can give them room to pass you while you are taking off fine but if not I'd continue to take the lane. Curious did they ever finish the Multi Purpose Path along Michigan? If so, you could take that over to 60th street? I know you said there was construction but there are 'ways' to weedle through some of those neighborhoods.

[ny biker]

There was a thread last year about someone not being able to drink from a water bottle while riding, and someone (I'm pretty sure it was Tulip) recommended a way to gradually practice riding with one hand, reaching for the bottle in the cage, etc. It involved reaching down and touching the bottle briefly as a way to get started. So I followed that advice for signaling with my right hand. On a safe part of the ride (i.e., flat straight trail or road with no one around me) I would practice lifting my right hand off the bar, first just a couple of inches, then a bit more, etc. until I was able to signal.

Oddly enough, after a couple of winter months off the bike, I found that this year I was more comfortable taking my right hand off the bar than I was last year. Still not as good as riding with my left hand off the bar, but I'm definitely better at it now.

In addition to signaling right turns, this has made me better at signaling road hazards on the right edge of the road while doing group rides.

[Catrin]

NY Biker, that is a good idea, I will start working on it. I don't care about drinking from a water bottle as so many places where I ride there aren't any options for more water - so my hydration pack serves me well. It would, however, be good to signal with my right hand without getting all unstable. I focused on doing things with my left hand when I started riding to prevent me from grabbing a hand-full of front brake...

WindingRoad, good idea about the yellow gloves! I really like my route home, and that intersection is the only bit that seems to give me problems - I think because the rest of it is 2-lanes. I don't have to stay in the right hand lane at the GT road intersection if I don't need to do so, and I am just more comfortable with that intersection and the rest of the route home. Once I've passed the Chase Bank I get on the "Trail" as there are just too many curb cuts on the "trail" for the businesses before - I feel safer being on the street until past that point.

They have completed resurfacing 56th from Kessler to just east of Guion Rd AND they now have bike lane signs up for that short section :) They haven't striped it yet but they have the markers so they can stripe the new car/bike lanes. The new bike lane will start just on the west side of the intersection. I thought about riding up Cooper to 62nd and take that home, but it is going to be closed as yet another part of the huge neighborhood project that is ongoing. Better just to deal with a quarter mile section of 56th that I don't much care for...

[hebe]

I read a very helpful tip on another forum for less wobble on signalling - just lift your chin before sticking your arm out. I don't think we have the bent left arm signal for a right turn here, it's left arm out for left turn and right arm out for right. I'm good with the right arm but my left is not so confident.

[malkin]

For a while I experimented with a blinky on my wrist to make my signal more obvious, but it just gave me a headache.

[Catrin]

If there's not much room, it sounds like you should just stay in line. That is always an acceptable and legal solution. It can piss off drivers if you move very slowly, like up a hill for instance, so it helps traffic flow if you're alert, prepared to start quickly and move over a little if appropriate. But do stay centred and visible if there's road work and you need to keep your place.

I was back at this intersection last night and just pretended to be a tiny car & took my place in line. I was far more comfortable with this approach, and there is a bike lane that starts on the other side of the intersection. Thanks for all of the good advice on this!

Sadly they had a portion of the bike lane blocked off where they've already torn the shoulder up and I had a small problem with a car who just HAD to speed up and pass me before the the barrier that narrowed the lane, but I saw that coming and didn't allow him to make me nervous. The car after that was far more kind.

[Melalvai]

Now that we live so close to the grocery store, we walk with our little collapsible shopping cart. No sidewalks, of course. At the entrance/ exit of the store parking lot, exiting traffic has a right turn lane and a straight through/ left turn lane, and then there's the entrance (opposite direction traffic) lane. The opposite direction lane is closest to the store, so we used to walk wrong way up it. But after so many cars turning into the parking lot, and no where to walk but in their lane, we've found it is actually easier to walk in the middle (straight through/ left turn) lane, where we are walking in the direction of traffic. Even crossing over to the far lane (right turn) isn't ideal because then we have all this right-turning traffic conflicting with our line of travel.

It's kind of weird to take the lane as a pedestrian.

[lph]

It's kind of weird to take the lane as a pedestrian.

Heh. Which brings me to my personal pet peeve, stores designed around access from cars. We have two grocery stores 4-500 yds away, which should be great for shopping on foot. One of them is easily accessible on foot as it's right outside the subway, but the other one can be quite dangerous to walk to, especially in the dark of winter. That really annoys me! To get there, from our mostly car-free neighbourhood, I have to cross the road on a ped crossing, dodge the cars zipping up from the highway that haven't slowed down yet, and then weave my way carefully across a large car park to get to the front door. Not a pedestrian marking in sight, and of course, no bike parking. I don't know how they get away with it. Surely a minimum of safety for real live people is more important than being able to drive to within 10 feet of the door.

Sorry for the hijack...

[Melalvai]

The entire city of Kirksville is designed around cars. Not having a sidewalk to the grocery store is not worth getting upset about because it's the same everywhere in town. Now that I'm here, Kirksville is changing. :D (Or maybe we're part of a national trend that is happening in other cities without me!)