Vehicle for hauling up to four bikes?

[emily_in_nc]

Hi everyone!

Long story short, as much as we love Belize, it looks like we'll probably be relocating back to North Carolina either later this year or early next year. We've had our looooong vacation (just what I needed after retiring from 25 years in the telecom software industry), met great people, had a blast traveling the country (and still have more traveling we want to do before we leave), but ultimately, we miss our road cycling, hiking, food co-op, reasonably priced wine, and privacy (we live in a first-floor condo in a resort and on an island where tourists are plentiful, so we feel like we're living in a fishbowl a lot of the time).

We sold our '04 Honda Element before moving down, and once we return, we're going to need a vehicle. We would love to be car-free like we are here (one of the big draws of moving down here), but that's just not going to work since we plan to travel in the US, and we will want to be able to drive to hiking/kayaking areas and some bike rides/events. We will only need one vehicle since we're both retired, so it needs to serve multiple purposes.

Our primary criteria are:

* Able to carry up to four bikes at times (by removing or folding down back seat) [EDIT: we want the bikes to fit INSIDE the vehicle with front wheels removed, not on rear or top racks.]
* Gas mileage as good as possible
* Reliable, safe brand
* Reasonably comfortable for long trips
* Moderately priced

An Element fits all of our criteria except for the gas mileage one -- it only got 20-23 mpg, depending on driving conditions, but it certainly ticks other boxes, especially the ability to handle multiple bikes. And since they're not made any more, we wouldn't have the option of buying new if we so chose.

We've been out of the car market since 2004, so I figured the collective wisdom here would know a lot more about the current batch of vehicles available than I do.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you can make!

[Blueberry]

Do the 4 bikes need to be inside? If not, I'd look at the Jetta Sportwagen Diesel. If something happened to mine, we would buy another in a heartbeat (I traded my Element for it). We can fit bikes on the roof, one or 2 inside if need be, could do a trailer hitch, boats on the roof if need be, etc., etc. We routinely see 40 mpg on the highway, even with bikes on the roof. In town, we average more like 35-38.

Sorry to hear that Belize hasn't worked out for you, but glad to hear that you might be coming back:)

[emily_in_nc]

Sorry, I should have specified -- the four bikes need to fit INSIDE the vehicle. DH is concerned about security otherwise (for example, if we were staying at a hotel on a trip). We don't mind taking front wheels off, of course.

I know we're being picky, but he really doesn't want to resort to having to put bikes on the roof or back of the vehicle.

Thanks, Blueberry, and please don't be sorry! We have had an AMAZING time here that we would never trade. We have no regrets at all and are still so glad we came here. The life experiences gained, the learning experiences, the birding, and everything else we've done here, not to mention the wonderful friends we've made are worth every small negative; it just became apparent that there wasn't enough here to sustain us long-term. It has been a very eye-opening "growth" experience as we discover what we really want for our future. One huge thing we've learned here is that we LOVE to travel and want to do more of it. A lot more. We may even try RVing in the future, but we'll see how things go when we get back to NC for awhile first.

[Irulan]

This request reminds me of "light, cheap, strong; pick two" I think the mileage thing is going to be your sacrifice if you want room for 4 bikes inside. Element, Ford Escape...will fill the bill but yes, mileage is going to be average.

If you are coming back to the states, can we still pick your brains about trips to Ambergris Caye? That's on the radar for our next dive trip.

[emily_in_nc]

If you are coming back to the states, can we still pick your brains about trips to Ambergris Caye? That's on the radar for our next dive trip.

Of course! We don't dive but can help with other stuff...

And I do realize that I may be asking the impossible re. a vehicle. I just wanted to make sure there is nothing we've overlooked since we've been out of the car market for so long. You know, that proverbial fantasy vehicle that gets 100 mpg, never breaks down, and can carry a small home's worth of toys and gear inside. :D

[Koronin]

There is always the idea to take the bikes in the hotel room with you. (Yes we've done this actually). Anytime we take the bikes somewhere we take the Ford Ranger (small pick up) that we have a bike rack that attaches to the hitch. We just don't take the carbon road bikes on that since they have to hang by the frame. Typically it's the mountain bikes we're traveling with. But we do take them in the hotel room with us. When we took them to the beach (outer banks) we actually had them locked on an upper balcony under the roof and where you could not see them from the street instead of bringing them inside. Oh and they were locked right next to the door on that lvl.

[goldfinch]

I have a Rav4 that easily carries three bikes, (though my spouse's Trek Navigator is awkwardly big and doesn't stand up nice like my bikes) but I question whether it would carry four. It is the two wheel drive version and gets better than 30mpg. I looked at getting the Honda minivan. The gas mileage was pretty good for a minivan and it would be such a nice vehicle for transporting bicycles. I kind of regret not getting the minivan as the bike stable has increased in size.

[emily_in_nc]

Yep, we've certainly taken bikes in hotel rooms over the years, and most do seem to allow it -- but four?! It's also nice to keep them inside a vehicle to keep them from getting wet, buggy, etc. We were spoiled having a Honda Element for seven years, so it's really hard to go back to a rack situation if we don't have to.

Also wanted to mention that we wouldn't always or even usually be carrying four bikes -- that would be worst case. More typical would be two bikes and a dog kennel, or two bikes and a kayak. We found a take-apart one that goes from a tandem to a single and breaks down into three pieces that could easily fit in the back of a vehicle when broken down:

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/69097?feat=kayak-SR0&attrValue_0=Red

It's pricey, but so's a tandem kayak plus roof rack, and DH absolutely hated putting kayaks up on Thule racks when we had 'em b/c of all the bungeeing, wrapping, securing fore and aft, etc., so this would solve this problem. Basically, we want to be able to hike, kayak, and bike on a lot of our trips without committing to something like a Sportsmobile just yet.

[shootingstar]

Wow, another life change..returning to the US.

I can't help advise on cars and bike hauls since we're car-free for ( a long time).
Glad you enjoyed and learned from Belize. I guess North Carolina is best for personal reasons to relocate? It is an opportunity to consider another state.

[Crankin]

Emily, we don't have a car that can fit 4 bikes inside that gets the gas mileage you want... DH has an SUV (the kind people here make fun of) that easily fits 2 bikes with the wheels ON, but we have a Saris rack that has an extender for 4 bikes, that we use for trips with our friends. We just use a huge cable lock to keep the bikes safe. I've never worried, really. Once we get to our destination, the bikes are stored somewhere.
I know I must be spending too much time here. I just told DH, "My friend in Belize is moving back here."
I've never met you in person.

[Pedal Wench]

I have a Rav4 that easily carries three bikes, ....

I have a 2007 Rav4 and we can easily fit 4 - two facing forward and two back, and I'm sure we could even do three facing back - SO easy to load in from the back. I just removed the back seats to make it easier to load up for long road trips - we got a ton more storage space and can live out of it for months. Gas mileage is good, and will be better now without the seats and with the extra room, won't need the Thule roof box this summer either.

[jyyanks]

What about Toyota Highlander? Here is an article from Yahoo that talks about the most fuel efficient SUV and the Highlander is in there.

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/suvs-with-the-best-fuel-economy.html?page=1

[goldfinch]

Basically, we want to be able to hike, kayak, and bike on a lot of our trips without committing to something like a Sportsmobile just yet.

Emily, the perfect vehicle is the Sportsmobile. If you don't want to commit right away maybe you can track down a used Element.

[emily_in_nc]

Emily, the perfect vehicle is the Sportsmobile. If you don't want to commit right away maybe you can track down a used Element.

ITA. However, to get the configuration we would want, we would most likely have to order one, and we need a vehicle in the meantime. Not to mention the cost is much higher, and since we'll have a lot of other "re-startup" costs in the US, we don't want to spend that kind of money right at first, until the dust settles. Maybe eventually, though.

[emily_in_nc]

I guess North Carolina is best for personal reasons to relocate? It is an opportunity to consider another state.

No, NC is best. My mother is getting up there in years and lives in the state, as does my brother. We love the Chapel Hill/Carrboro area and have many ties there, including friends, great doctors and dentists, and bike club friends. Not to say we'd never consider another area, but not for awhile. We just have too many roots there to start over in yet another new place.

We actually regretted committing to Belize by the time we actually moved. We had put money down on the condo in summer 2010 (40%, which was required), so we had to follow through, but by the time we moved, we'd gotten so into our lives in Chapel Hill, made new friends (we'd moved from a much more rural area in 2010 to "the city"), and by the end, we realized we wouldn't have moved to Belize if we had delayed our decision a year. But we had too much money in not to go ahead with it.

And we did give it our best shot; it just became apparent within about 6 months that it was not the best place for us long-term.

[emily_in_nc]

[QUOTE=Crankin;636241
I know I must be spending too much time here. I just told DH, "My friend in Belize is moving back here."
I've never met you in person.[/QUOTE]

I have the same kind of experiences with some of my Facebook friends -- most I know "in person" too, but a few I just feel like I know! :D

[emily_in_nc]

Thanks for the Rav4 and Highlander suggestions. We used to have a Rav4 years ago, but it was one of the small 2-door models from the first model year and was tiny. They've really grown over the year. DH's parents have a Highlander, and while it's certainly big, it might be a bit more "luxury" and pricey than we really want to go.

Will look into both, though, thanks!

[laura*]

We've been out of the car market since 2004, so I figured the collective wisdom here would know a lot more about the current batch of vehicles available than I do.

How about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Connect

[Koronin]

Good luck in your vehicle search. Welcome back (soon) to NC.

[tulip]

Minivan. Seats fold into the floor; they are cavernous. Better mileage than SUVs because they are not 4WD.

[Crankin]

Have you considered a station wagon? I know, not a popular choice, but I just got one (probably not one you'd consider, as I have 4 wheel drive requirements). When I put the back seats down, I can fit both of my bikes in, no wheels off. My custom bike has a longer wheelbase and there is no way I could fit it in my sedan, with the seats down.
The car dealers kept pushing me to look at mini vans and I was like, "Are you kidding?" I don't want the soccer mom look. Anyway, besides the cargo room in the back, there are various top rack options for kayaks, etc.

[SheFly]

The car dealers kept pushing me to look at mini vans and I was like, "Are you kidding?" I don't want the soccer mom look.

Hey! don't knock the mini van :). When we bought ours, I told DH there was NO WAY I was driving one of those. Absolutely not. After 5 years, go ahead and TRY to take it away from me :).

Emily - sorry to hear Belize didn't work out as planned. Do consider a "not-mom" van though (that's what I call mine - no kids, but I do drive the van). Mine regularly gets about 25 mpg, fits TWO tandems inside without wheels off (plus cat carrier and all luggage/gear for the weekend), and doubles as a very large locker room for us when racing. We simply removed the second row of seating and stored them in the garage.

Surprisingly, the van is very comfortable to drive including long distances. I drive the Toyota Sienna, but would really like the Honda Odyssey if I were to trade-in at some point.

SheFly

[Irulan]

crankin, what wagon did you get? There are so few true wagons out there now. I have a Mazda 3.

[emily_in_nc]

How about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Connect

Interesting! But, this gave me pause:

"In most places, the high-roof Transit Connect, like most Ford Econoline vans, is unable to access multi-story parking because of its height (6'-6")."

Not that we use multi-story parking often, but all our hospitals have it, and you hate not to be able to park at a hospital -- we've definitely needed that capability over the past 10 years, several times.

Still, neat suggestion, and something I'd never heard of. Thanks!

[Crankin]

Yes, we can't park DH's SUV at the garage at the Prudential center, which is where we park when we drive to theatre; always take my car if it's our turn to drive. We just call ahead, if we're not sure of a garage's height, but it is an issue.
Irulan, I got an Audi A4 wagon. I wanted an A3, which is smaller, in fact just about the smallest wagon made, but when I drove the 2, I really didn't like the way it drove, compared to the A4. I did like the way it looked, though. They are re-doing both of these models for 2013 and we got a huge price reduction, as well as a discount because my DH's company does business with them. I also got a very good trade in for my 9 year old BMW.
She Fly, I didn't mean to stereotype you! Another part of not wanting a mini van is that I don't want something bigger. In fact, the A4 is longer than I wanted. I have a very difficult time parallel parking and I do occasionally have to do this when visiting clients. I pray every time before I go to certain places that I won't have to. This is the price I pay for learning to drive and living in the sunbelt where you never have to do this. I did have a Mazda mini van (the worst car I've ever had) and a 4-Runner for quite a few years before the BMW, and I am done with cars of that size. My kids learned to drive on the 4-Runner, which was good, and it took DS to races with all of his gear, but it got terrible gas mileage.

[Norse]

+1 on the RAV4. One of the reasons we bought it was because of the fold-flat seats coupled with it having the largest cubic feet of capacity for carrying your gear/bikes (in the smaller SUV crossover world). On the test drive, we brought it home and stuffed a couple of bikes in there to make sure it would work. :D We have easily fit 3 in and I imagine 1 more would fit fine.

[Irulan]

The new 4 runners are HUGE. We have one for DH's work and you can get 5 adults comfortably in it. The amount of leg room is unreal. Mileage is OK for a bigger rig, and we love it for trips, but small it aint.

[emily_in_nc]

I don't have a problem with a mini-van from a "how it looks to others" perspective. I don't care if folks think I'm uncool, though I am far from a soccer mom; don't even have kids! BUT, the starting price on a good one (Honda or Toyota) is higher than any car we've ever owned, so we'd definitely have to find a used one as we just don't like spending a ton of money on cars. Would much rather save our pennies for bikes and bike gear! We've never bought anything but new cars in the past, but less expensive models like Honda CRX and Honda Element, and the 2-door Rav4.

And DH *might* have a problem driving a mini-van around, since we'd be sharing the vehicle. Not sure. If he doesn't care, a used one could work. They definitely have the cargo space and the comfort factor boxes ticked.

Will definitely look at Rav4s since it's been many, many years since we owned one, and they've changed a lot. 4Runners are definitely too rich for us and gas mileage too low.

[emily_in_nc]

DH just confirmed --> NO mini-vans! I should have known. :rolleyes:

So far the Toyota Rav4 is looking like a hot contender. The gas mileage is marginally better than the Element, safety is better, price is similar, and cargo space is only 1.3 cubic feet less (when seats are down in back). I had no idea. Of course, mini-vans have WAY more cargo space, but DH says no. And the smaller SUVs obviously get better gas mileage than a mini-van also.

Will look at the Jeep products too, but I wonder if repair/maintenance could be an issue. Heard some gripes from a couple of Jeep Cherokee owners I used to work with. We're so used to Honda/Toyota quality that it would be hard to take a step backwards. Especially since we'll only have one vehicle.

[emily_in_nc]

After a quick look at the Jeep site, neither the Patriot or Liberty has as much cargo space as the Rav4 or Element (over 10 cubic feet less, surprisingly!)

The Patriot gets excellent gas mileage and is extremely well-priced for a 4x4 SUV, but we gotta have that cargo space. The Liberty doesn't get very good gas mileage.

Honda Civics are definitely not expensively outfitted cars; they used to be the very bottom of the Honda line years ago; not sure they are now. But they sure are reliable, or at least used to be. My father got well over 200K miles on his.

Honda Elements are also very "plastic" inside, but that makes them easy to clean and inexpensive. I've never cared about having a luxury car or adding "appearance packages", stuff like that. I want comfortable seats for driving and a good driving position for a petite gal like me, but aside from that, I'm really looking for function over form and reliability over bells and whistles. I am what you'd call a very "basic" car buyer, I guess. Never had anything fancy, so I don't know what I'm missing. :D

I forgot to mention that I also had a Subaru Forester that I loved before the Element, but bikes had to lie down in the back, and the transmission gave out after only four years, so I traded it on the Element. I also really disliked the service department folks in my area after many failed attempts to fix the "check engine" light issue, so I am boycotting Subies, even if they did have one that would fit a herd of bikes!

[TsPoet]

How about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Connect

Every time I see one of these I start to drool. Smallish with lots of room inside, generally used for businesses.
My other choice would be it's big brother - a sprinter van. Used, of course!
http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/sprinter/crew-van

[tulip]

Honda Fit has lots of cargo space even though it's a small car. It's also much lower than an SUV, which is good for kayaks on the roof. Not pricey; great mileage. Perhaps worth considering.

[emily_in_nc]

Honda Fit has lots of cargo space even though it's a small car. It's also much lower than an SUV, which is good for kayaks on the roof. Not pricey; great mileage. Perhaps worth considering.

I agree that the Honda Fit is great for a small call and a commuter, and if I were still working AND we had a second car, it would be at the top of my list. But it's just too small for road trips -- we'd also have luggage and often, a dog and dog gear, in addition to bikes, a kayak, etc. Just not quite enough car for our current needs, but thanks for the thought.

[emily_in_nc]

Maybe I should look at the Rav4. Always liked Toyota!

By cheaply made, I meant the exterior and the locks, things like that. :( Not acceptable to be forced to replace all the locks after 5 years because of cheap parts. I guess most cars have power/remote locks. But mine aren't. Not made to withstand use, apparently.

Plus, the plastic cover around the wheel-wells fell off for no apparent reason, and from the undercarriage.... No more Honda.

I do hear you. We never had any problems with the locks on our Element (but had power locks), but we did have a trim piece fall off the exterior. DH was able to replace it with a mail-order part, so it was an inexpensive repair since it was plastic. And the driver side sun visor got floppy, but he was able to repair that too. Those kinds of things I can accept, because we put 130K miles on the car in over 7 years of ownership and NEVER had a mechanical or engine issue of any sort. Never had to have it in the shop other than for routine maintenance. And never did the "check engine" light come on. After my issues with my Forester, that alone made me love Honda. :D

[emily_in_nc]

Every time I see one of these I start to drool. Smallish with lots of room inside, generally used for businesses.
My other choice would be it's big brother - a sprinter van. Used, of course!
http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/sprinter/crew-van

Oh yes, I know about Sprinters (Sportsmobile is simply a modified, customized Sprinter), but they're not in the budget for now. Very cool, though!

I have not ruled out the Ford Transit, but I do have reservations about it. The cargo space is amazing, but there are drawbacks, like the tall profile I mentioned above (making parking decks a hassle). Also, I could not find safety data for it, possibly because it is more of a "truck" than a car. I'm also nervous about driving anything with metal panels instead of windows in back. Seems like that would make visibility/blind spots a lot worse. The Element was pretty bad in that respect, too, and if you flipped up the rear seats, I felt downright nervous driving it, since I couldn't look over my shoulders at blind spots before changing lanes. Perhaps you get used to that, but it's really hard to adjust mirrors to eliminate all blind spots.

Anyone have any feedback on that? I guess we could always test drive one.

[emily_in_nc]

Not feeling the love after reading this (Source: http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Ford_Transit-Connect/Safety/)

The Ford Transit Connect gets an overall safety score of just two stars out of five from the federal government, which is worse than most vehicles on the market. This score is comprised of three-star frontal crash and rollover scores and a two-star side crash score. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety does not crash test commercial vehicles.

The Transit Connect comes with safety features that are basic for the class. Anti-lock brakes are standard, as are front and side airbags. Depending on the trim level, a rearview camera and a passive anti-theft system are optional.

Reviewers note that although the Transit Connect’s forward visibility is great, its rearward visibility is pretty poor no matter which model you choose. Cargo models are particularly bad, since the rear cargo area doesn’t have windows. Reverse sensors are optional, which should help a bit.

[rubysoho]

Just wanted to add a little about the Jeeps. They did go through a point in time where there was significant difference in engines and upkeep. The 4.0 liters, well, you couldn't kill them (I had one, '92 Jeep Cherokee Laredo... I miss it soooo much!!!). Jeep no longer has 4.0 models but I've read that they have improved their overall engine lifespan.

Check out the car forums. When I was looking a few months ago (was considering a new car...) I saw positives and negatives but more people loving their Jeeps than not.

That said, I would stay away from the Compass and (I think...) the Patriot. Those two had the poorest reviews (consumer and magazine).

[emily_in_nc]

Continuing my research, did you know that the Rav4 (in addition to the Honda Element) has more cargo capacity than a Ford Escape (in addition to both Jeep models mentioned)? I was surprised! I'm really learning a lot from all this research and truly appreciate all the suggestions.

Currently, it's looking like the Rav4 is at the top of the heap for what we want. DH still is pulling for an Element, but I've found at least one good site that compares the two, and Rav4 wins in nearly all categories.

[withm]

Not sure if you are aware, but the Element has been discontinued, and good used ones are not so easy to find. My boss just bought one, and had it brought in from out of state somewhere.

[emily_in_nc]

Not sure if you are aware, but the Element has been discontinued, and good used ones are not so easy to find. My boss just bought one, and had it brought in from out of state somewhere.

Yes, I'm aware of that. But there are a reasonable number of them available through Carmax in NC; I've already checked. More pricey than buying from an individual, but have been checked out better too. And we'll be in an area where Elements are VERY popular, so there's always a decent chance of a local sale as well.

That said, I am going to push pretty hard for a Rav4, but it will probably be a late model used one as well.

[Penny4]

Emily, in your 1st post, you say you want to be able to transport the bikes with front wheels removed? So, the bikes would be standing?
If so, how do you secure them so they don't tip over while driving?
I have an SUV, and I lay my bike in the back, which is fine since I'm single and only have to transport 1 bike. But when the bike is laying down, it takes up the whole back, and I've been trying to figure out how to stand it up, so I can take it on vaca along with luggage, coolers, etc.
Good luck in your car search!

[Irulan]

You've never seen these? It's easy to build a bike rack for inside a vehicle by mounting them to a 2x4 or similar. About $18

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/Xu9Q0CUAweMzcAT8wQpDNEY40xcBXqwDEA3RsROWnBcblJmSGeejOYcHtA_i3Rw_OzfzGD7YWOL1Nd1MlnHeTg7jVePuIDCXiruyjDVPdyTnLrFy7gQ0K1nBYsRFWBiCNLSDp7bSvR2U

[Crankin]

My DH made one of these to put in the back of his SUV without having to put the rack on the hitch.

[Penny4]

I've never seen one of those. I'll have to look around for one.

[emily_in_nc]

Yep, what Irulan posted! DH made a rack for the interior of our Element that held four bikes (back/front/back/front) with the fork mount brackets. He also made one for the back of his truck when we had a tandem.

Barring that, I have used a few bungee cords to keep one bike upright without removing the wheel in the back of the Element (when we didn't have the rack with fork-mount thingies). You just wind the bungees around various parts of the bike and then around various parts of the interior of your car. Takes a little experimenting to get right.

[Irulan]

You've never seen these? It's easy to build a bike rack for inside a vehicle by mounting them to a 2x4 or similar. About $18

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/Xu9Q0CUAweMzcAT8wQpDNEY40xcBXqwDEA3RsROWnBcblJmSGeejOYcHtA_i3Rw_OzfzGD7YWOL1Nd1MlnHeTg7jVePuIDCXiruyjDVPdyTnLrFy7gQ0K1nBYsRFWBiCNLSDp7bSvR2U

google front fork mounts:)