Heat injuries and food

[Melalvai]

I went for a 40 mile ride today. It's pretty warm. I ate a solid breakfast (my usual 2 eggs + toast on a bed of lettuce). I brought a banana and 2 bottles of water.

When the 2 bottles were empty I stopped at a house and asked for water. He had a filter spigot. I ate the banana.

We stopped at the top of a hill. I had 1/2 a bottle left. I drank some of it and poured the rest over myself. I knocked on the door of the house and asked for a refill. She gave me ice. I was very hungry.

Only a few miles to go. I was weak and faint with hunger. I wasn't very thirsty. I drank a little and poured more water on myself. That helped.

The other 2 riders turned off. Only 2 miles left. I felt so weak. Suddenly I went from weak and hungry to "OMG I'm going to throw up". I pulled over and leaned my bike up against a tree. I sat down. I waited for the nausea to pass. And the dizziness.

I waited. And I waited. I was next to the parking lot of an urgent care clinic... I wondered if I should call my husband to pick me up. That seemed silly, only one mile away.

Then a friend pulled up. He'd recognized my bike and stopped to say hi. Of course he gave me a ride home.

Sadly, my favorite part of the ride, eating non stop for hours, is ruined. Couple hour later now, at home, lying down in the cool, the nausea is gone and the dizziness mostly gone. But I'm only able to nibble.

Lesson: Water is not enough to prevent heat injury! Next time I'll pack more food.

[indysteel]

I'd add an electrolyte replacement to the list as well. When it's hot, one of my bottles is Cytomax. I carry some extra dry mix with me as well.

[Crankin]

Get some Nuun tablets. They come in a tube, fit in a small bike bag or jersey pocket, only have 5 calories, and are strictly electrolyte replacement. I hardly ever drink my calories on the bike, and prefer to eat real food or a Luna Bar while riding. If it's a long ride, I have one bottle of Nuun, one of plain water. Very rarely do I use Accelerade anymore.
Heat is a killer. You can get in trouble very quickly. I pre-hydrate if it is very hot.

[indysteel]

I don't really like drinking my calories either, but when it's really hot and humid, I find it challenging to eat enough. Plus, the more I drink, the less hungry I even feel. Of course, everyone is different though. It really takes some experimentation. I totally agree with prehydration. I make sure to start a hot ride well hydrated.

[ny biker]

Do you usually ride 40 miles with no food except a banana? I'd be on my knees crying from a bonk if I tried that, regardless of the weather or what I'd had for breakfast.

I usually cannot tolerate solid food while I ride. I alternate bottles of Gatorade with bottles of water, and eat 200-300 calories worth of sports gels and chews per hour.

Usually if I'm low on calories during a ride I'll start to feel shaky (and very cranky). But in general, when I'm not riding or exercising, I'll feel nauseated if I'm having a blood sugar crash due to lack of food, such as if I wait too long after waking up to have breakfast.

[Crankin]

I also keep Shot Blocks in my bag, knowing that they give me a huge sugar rush very quickly. I don't like chewing them and don't use them regularly, but I have, on occasions, used them always at the same spots near the end of very hilly 40-60 mile rides.

[malkin]

I hope you feel better soon.
For me it helps to make sure I am topped off from the night before too.

[Melalvai]

I'm trying to go no-sugar. (It doesn't help that my daughter is on a baking kick and made delicious cheesecake-cookies just now.) Well, if I'm going to eat sugar, it's going to be yummy stuff, not a coke or gatorade or ew, shot blocks. I don't really think it was the calories I needed. I think it was salt (electrolytes). V8 does really well for me at restoring salt. I haven't tried Nuun or Cytomax.

nybiker, since I stopped eating sugar (mostly), I can handle having a late breakfast. It's still my favorite meal of the day and I eat most of my food from breakfast to lunch, but I will usually go for a run or swim before breakfast with no problems.

[indysteel]

V8 covers salt loss, but I'm not confident that it addresses the other electrolytes that you need to replenish--potassium, magnesium and calcium. Since you're trying to go sugar free, Nuun tablets seem like a good option.

[azfiddle]

Melavai

So sorry you had the heat exhaustion!!

A couple of general rules that my DH and I use-

Drink every time you think about it. My DHdrinks a lot more than I do, but after 85 degrees, I go through a lot more water than when it is cooler.

Eat at least 200 calories per hour if the ride is going to be longer than 1 1/2 hours/20 miles. This is advice we've gotten from the Carmichael coaches, and has served us well on long rides and events, especially. Your body stores enough glycogen for about an hour and a half, then you are running on empty.

Use electrolytes!
I actually like shot blocks.... I eat them on many of my rides.
I use NUUN sometimes, I like the fizziness. My DH doesn't like the artificial sweetener.
I like GU Brew lemon flavor - it's got calories and electrolytes both, and seems lighter than something like Gatorade

My DH likes endurolytes for electrolytes. He is susceptible to cramps and thinks it helps him.

I really can't ride much if it's hot, especially if it's humid- so in summer in Tucson I need to finish my rides by 8-9 am. I have had several experiences with heat exhaustion, feeling faint, and have to find some kind of shade (not always easy in Arizona!!) and pour water over my head, sometimes need to lie down. I have only needed to be rescued once, but now I plan my hot weather rides to avoid the conditions that have gotten me in trouble.

We stop at Circle K stores, Quick Marts etc and fill our bottles with lots of ice and a little water. They don't seem to mind, although we do often buy a little item or two.

[Shaula]

Well, I am not alone!!!! Thanks for the response and the advise. I feel so stupid because I am the one that preaches to my daughters about fueling up and here I go!!!!!! I guess when you turn 50 you don't get smarter???? LOL

[Owlie]

I get the Shot blocks that have extra salt (I think they're the margarita flavor) since my diet isn't terribly high-salt and I seem to lose more of it than normal people. 40 miles is about the point where I need additional real food too.

If it's really warm, I take the Camelbak and fill up the second bottle with diluted Gatorade. I like the sound of Gu Brew, though.

[Crankin]

I also will use my Camelbak along with bottles, if I am doing a very long, very hot ride.

[westtexas]

If you are going no-sugar, you might try coconut water. Actually, to be honest, I don't know it's sugar content, but it's natural and supposedly is chock full of electrolytes. I have considered getting some of this to keep in my bottles for long rides - but my problem is I just never know when I'm going to be on a long ride and never plan accordingly (I ride until I don't want to anymore, which could be 10 miles or 50).

If you are going low-sugar are you also going low-carb? I found when I first when low carb, having Luna bars on hand all the time was great. Now however (6 months in) I can have a cup of coffee, set off for a 50 mile ride with just water, and be fine when I get home. I often don't get hungry again for many many hours (6+ usually) and have not yet suffered any ill health effects. It just takes a little patience to reset the way your body fuels itself - I took it easy on my rides until I was sure my body was good enough at burning fat and not dependent on sugar to keep me going.

[Melalvai]

Not really low carb, mainly just watching my GI. If I do have sugar, I try to have it with fruit or something to lower the GI. I'll try coconut water. I'm training for Bike Across Kansas and I'm just going to guess that coconut water might be a little hard to find out there.

I looked at the label on the V8, and it has sodium, potassium, and calcium. The only thing missing is magnesium, and almonds have that. Looks like bananas have all of those too, not sure how much.

[Savra]

If you are staying away from sugar and don't want to do Gatorade - Try Propel Zero. It says it replenishes and is zero calories, although it doesn't list potassium and that is one of the key things you need - especially in heat. I would end up throwing up if I tried riding in heat without my Gatorade. I mix half Gatorade and half water.

[Owlie]

If you are going no-sugar, you might try coconut water. Actually, to be honest, I don't know it's sugar content, but it's natural and supposedly is chock full of electrolytes. I have considered getting some of this to keep in my bottles for long rides - but my problem is I just never know when I'm going to be on a long ride and never plan accordingly (I ride until I don't want to anymore, which could be 10 miles or 50).

If you are going low-sugar are you also going low-carb? I found when I first when low carb, having Luna bars on hand all the time was great. Now however (6 months in) I can have a cup of coffee, set off for a 50 mile ride with just water, and be fine when I get home. I often don't get hungry again for many many hours (6+ usually) and have not yet suffered any ill health effects. It just takes a little patience to reset the way your body fuels itself - I took it easy on my rides until I was sure my body was good enough at burning fat and not dependent on sugar to keep me going.

Interesting!

As much as I love coconut water (I have a coconut problem!), if it gets warmer than "cold", I'd think it would make me queasy, but tepid liquids of all stripes do the same.

[OakLeaf]

Too little sodium gives me nausea, intestinal distress, lightheadedness. Too little calcium and magnesium give me cramps. I like Zenergize Hydrate - lightly sweetened with stevia, but just enough to offset the acid of the citrus flavor, not nearly as sweet as HEED.

I prefer to drink my calories in the form of HEED on shorter, harder rides, but when I'm out for more than four hours or so I need protein, and if I'm sweating much I need a lot more electrolytes than HEED provides.

[Melalvai]

I did a little comparison and found that per volume, V8 has almost 10 times the sodium and potassium as Gatorade. Plus it has calcium, iron, vitamins A & C, fiber & protein in addition to the carbs. I like V8 even better now!

[Sky King]

I am a "nuuner" but also like Ultima, no sugar, gluten free, vegan yada, yada, 10 calories per 12 oz.

just a note of caution on coconut water - I am allergic to coconut so make sure you don't have that issue :)

My go to food for a 40 mile ride is flour tortilla with peanut butter and honey. slips into your pocket in a baggie, isn't bulky and for the hard cores can be eaten while riding :)

Hate heat stroke, glad you recovered okay

[ehirsch83]

Stepping in here on a nutrition point.

Even if you cut out sugars throughout your daily life- don't cut them out on the bike.

When you are on the bike, the calories you take in(via liquid, gels,etc) and transferred into energy almost ASAP (granted you are riding for over 1.5 hours, longer ride or harder,etc.- does not count for an easy recovery ride)

There is a reason that energy gels, drink mixes, etc. are what they are- your body turns it into fuel asap.

When you hit the point of bonking, you have gone to far- it is your body telling you it needs energy to keep going.

I eat almost no sugar in real life- I use agave or honey in coffee and that is it, I eat pretty paleo(with the exception of some ezekial bread a few times a week) but on the bike I feed my body what it needs to perform at it's best.

That might mean gels, blocks, home made bars, drink mixes, just this past Sunday on a slow 5 hour ride(75 super slow miles) I had to stop at about hour 3.5 due to me bonking at a gas station and I had a Dr. Pepper and a Snickers.

Sometimes I just need some fig newtons or vitamin water at the gas station.

Also if you are riding over 3 hours, you should be taking in protein also(I get eggs at a gas station if I have a chance to stop, since protein mix doesn't sit well in the Florida heat in a bottle and bars tend to melt).

If you want to keep it so you know what the ingredients are- check out www.nomeatathlete.com

There are some great recipes on there for home made gels and bars(I eat meat, but on the bike you don't usually want meat- so great ideas on here).

Or, if you want real food- you could take a small baguette with you, some butter, honey and ham in it and snack along the way(sodium, sugar, carbs, protein).

Just please please please realize that taking your body off of all sugar while riding is detrimental to your improvement.

[ehirsch83]

Also,

I do use Nuun for electrolyte source. If my ride is under 2 hours I try to take only water and no food, but each person is different. Weekend hard group rides- I have a drink mix in 1 bottle so I make sure I am getting the needed calories into my system and electrolytes in the other. I may only do 45 miles if I do the short loop but there is a good chance I will have gone through 2 gels by the time I get home.

But you need to look at where your body is right now and when you start to feel worse- if you feel good and then at 1.5 hours you feel horrible- then you need to start putting nutrients into your body 30 minutes before that point on the next ride and then continue to do it every 30-45 mins or so until you get home.


Not fueling your body during these rides would be like not putting gas in your car- it can't run without the proper fuel and electrolytes are important but there is more then just that to keep you running :)

[Susan Otcenas]

Also if you are riding over 3 hours, you should be taking in protein also(I get eggs at a gas station if I have a chance to stop, since protein mix doesn't sit well in the Florida heat in a bottle and bars tend to melt).



Have you tried Perpetuem Solids? I love Perpetuem in my bottles on my long rides, but in hot weather, the bottles can get skunky. Perpetuem Solids solves this problem. I can have plain water (or a carb-only mix like Heed) in my bottles, and get some protein from the Solids.
http://www.hammernutrition.com/products/perpetuem-solids.ps.html

Susan

[OakLeaf]

Huh. Never heard of that.

On long unsupported rides I usually stop at a convenient store or Subway for an egg salad or tuna salad sandwich, but on supported rides where there's often no access to food other than the food stops, and they NEVER give you enough protein, I've carried pre-measured Ziploc bags of Perpetuem and mixed them with water as needed. Doesn't take too much room in a jersey pocket.

I try to avoid soy though - lately I've been making my own with one part Garden of Life Raw Protein Powder to two parts HEED. Got me through the marathon last weekend. :)

[Susan Otcenas]

On long unsupported rides I usually stop at a convenient store or Subway for an egg salad or tuna salad sandwich, but on supported rides where there's often no access to food other than the food stops, and they NEVER give you enough protein, I've carried pre-measured Ziploc bags of Perpetuem and mixed them with water as needed. Doesn't take too much room in a jersey pocket.


I'm partial to smoked turkey breast sandwiches on long brevets. Usually after 10-12 hours in the saddle, a turkey sandwich goes down REALLY well and gives me the motivation to get back on for the rest of the night. I've done turkey breast on tortillas made at home and eaten after 10-12 hours but will only do that on brevets when temps are in the 40s or lower. Any warmer than that and I buy them at Subway or a grocery deli.

On PBP I used 40 bottles of Perpetuem, all individually measured and carried in little ziploc baggies just as you described. Takes up less space in my trunk bag than the solids. But for shorter/warmer rides, a few tubes of solids (same size tube as Nuun) in my bento box works really well.

[Catrin]

Huh. Never heard of that.

On long unsupported rides I usually stop at a convenient store or Subway for an egg salad or tuna salad sandwich, but on supported rides where there's often no access to food other than the food stops, and they NEVER give you enough protein, I've carried pre-measured Ziploc bags of Perpetuem and mixed them with water as needed. Doesn't take too much room in a jersey pocket.

I try to avoid soy though - lately I've been making my own with one part Garden of Life Raw Protein Powder to two parts HEED. Got me through the marathon last weekend. :)

It seems like my long rides always take me places where there aren't any stores, or anything else outside of corn/soybean fields. Great places to ride, but I have to take everything with me. Probably why I've really not considered any water option outside of my Camelbak - I won't run out of water that way ;)

Good idea about making your own Oakleaf - I do like HEED...and my long rides are getting long enough to start thinking about something more substantial than HEED. I will check out Garden of Life Protein powder...

[airrace]

I guess I would have died for food if I had only eaten a couple of bananas on that ride. Electrolytes are indeed very helpful and the nutrition suggestions above should be appreciated - but I also wonder what type of clothes you were wearing, which let you heat up so "tragically"... huh. Actually, I never feel so hot when riding, the sweat cools me well. There might be an antibodies supplier (http://www.antibodies-online.com/supplier/) which offers applications to study the results of overheating on the immune system. Might be worth a look.

[malkin]

It seems like my long rides always take me places where there aren't any stores, or anything else outside of corn/soybean fields. Great places to ride, but I have to take everything with me...

*giggle* I just got a funny image of Catrin's bike by the side of the road while she gnaws down a few soybeans in the field.

[OakLeaf]

*giggle* I just got a funny image of Catrin's bike by the side of the road while she gnaws down a few soybeans in the field.

That's not what we use the cornfields for around here. ;)

[Catrin]

*giggle* I just got a funny image of Catrin's bike by the side of the road while she gnaws down a few soybeans in the field.

I laughed out loud at this :)


That's not what we use the cornfields for around here. ;)

Nor do we, but I am thankful that I finally got over my problem about not being able to do this!

[Melalvai]

I guess I would have died for food if I had only eaten a couple of bananas on that ride. Electrolytes are indeed very helpful and the nutrition suggestions above should be appreciated - but I also wonder what type of clothes you were wearing, which let you heat up so "tragically"... huh. Actually, I never feel so hot when riding, the sweat cools me well.
I was wearing a jersey & shorts. It wasn't a bike jersey, but it was a tech-t. It was hot & humid. The breeze cools me off on the downhills but there is no breeze going uphill.

I've taken V8 with me on the last few rides, and it does wonderfully. In fact I wasn't quite so ravenous at the end of the rides as I usually am!

One of my biking buddies is a pharmacology prof and he looked askance at the 320 mg potassium and 290 mg sodium in one little can of V8, and I drank 4 of them. But I also drank a lot of water, and I sweat A LOT. I think I sweat more than others, certainly more than the people I bike with. So I have to replace more water & electrolytes. Yeah, that's almost 1.2 g of sodium I took in, and maybe I didn't sweat out quite that much, I probably would have been all right with 3 cans. But 4 was not overdoing it.

[OakLeaf]

I don't think that's too much sodium at all. Especially this early in the season when you're not acclimated to the heat. It might not be enough. A pharmacologist is not an exercise physiologist ...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18226265 - (550-750 mg/hour sodium lost in sweat)

http://www.training-conditioning.com/2007/08/salt_in_their_sweat.html (layperson's summary that I didn't chase the references, but claiming 1-2 g/hour sodium lost in sweat in a study of football players)

Personally, I'm so prone to a mild hyponatremia that it's (finally) the first thing I suspect any time I'm nauseous. I'm not even a particularly salty sweater when I'm acclimated to the heat, but I do sweat profusely, I eat mostly real food, and I have to be very liberal with the salt shaker and the Zenergize (500+ mg sodium per tablet) to avoid problems whenever I'm doing much of anything outside.

[ny biker]

If you're ravenous at the end of the ride, you're not getting enough calories.

V8 doesn't just have salt and potassium, it also has calories.

[Melalvai]

Appetite & calories aren't as closely linked as you might think. V8 has the same calories per volume as Gatorade.

Thanks for those links, OakLeaf. I forwarded them to the pharm prof. I'm sure he'll appreciate me saying "I told you so". :D

[ny biker]

Appetite & calories aren't as closely linked as you might think. V8 has the same calories per volume as Gatorade.

Thanks for those links, OakLeaf. I forwarded them to the pharm prof. I'm sure he'll appreciate me saying "I told you so". :D

But you weren't drinking Gatorade, you were drinking water. So you're getting more calories now with the V8.

[Melalvai]

Not really, because when I only had water it was because I'd already eaten the banana I brought.