No confidence in shop-am I overreacting?

[Dogmama]

My beautiful 2011 Madone has had problems due to bad shop maintenance. Today my pedal fell off because they neglected to install an integral part - the cotter pin that holds the pedal on. Could have been a very bad accident if I had not noticed the wiggling & stopped to check. When I did, it fell off in my hands. They admitted it was their fault.

Previously, the wheel rim tape didn't meet (1/4" gap) and I had several blow outs - one exciting one as I was descending at 35MPH. They swear that the rim tape wasn't the cause but since I put a heavier tube in - no flats. I told them to check the bike over completely & they assured me that they had. Apparently not.

I'm not a mechanic & don't want to be. I want to ride a bike long distances. But I have lost confidence. Am I within my rights to ask for a refund? I'm sure it will be denied & I'll end up with a lawyer. The bike cost $7,500.

Or maybe this is a fluke & I should forget it & ride with crossed fingers? I know I tend to overreact, so need the calmer, more experienced heads of the TE sisters.

[Kiwi Stoker]

Don't bother going back, it won't be worth it to get a refund. The bike technically is OK it's just a stupid mechanic and assembling. Pedals are not included in the price of a bike, so really you would only get a refund on the installation costs and I don't imagine that would be huge.

Find another bike shop, ask what training do the mechanics go through (Shimano does a training course, so does Specialized) and see their certificates. Ask other cyclists for store reccommendations.

I know of one lady whose crank was mis-installed and on a sprint her whole crank arm came off attached to her shoe. Lucky she had just started the sprint so she was able to stop safety. She had only had the bike 3 days.

The bike wasn't damaged so we all told her "find someone else to look after it and never go back to that store unless it's under new ownership".

If you are really still angry about this write to Trek advising them about the poor service from this shop for their product. They won't like that their brand is being mis-handled and probably will talk to them.

[Melalvai]

Pick a mechanic, not a shop. Try to get recommendations from others who have had good experiences and respect their mechanic.

[Catrin]

I agree with the others, it is about the wrenches at the shop. Find a good one that other cyclists recommend and have them go over the bike carefully. Sorry this happened, glad you are ok :eek:

[OakLeaf]

That s*cks. I'm glad you didn't get hurt.

I agree - you won't likely be able to get your money back. Ask around and find another shop. Training and certification aren't the only questions - they have to care enough to apply their training and pay attention to what they're doing. I'd be surprised if Trek authorizes anyone to assemble a Madone who hasn't been through some type of Trek seminar.

Club riders usually know who the good mechanics are. Ask a few people you know. It shouldn't cost that much to have a competent mechanic check the bike over (I would think $75 or less) - unfortunately I think you're just going to have to eat that much.

[limewave]

I agree that you should ask around. There are a lot of guys and some gals in our local clubs that enjoy working on bikes and are very good at it. They're usually willing to work on someone's bike in exchange for a six pack or baked goods.

[Dogmama]

I know of one lady whose crank was mis-installed and on a sprint her whole crank arm came off attached to her shoe. Lucky she had just started the sprint so she was able to stop safety. She had only had the bike 3 days.



That is what happened to me - it was the entire arm.

The shop owner assured me that their mechanics had been through the schooling, plus had gone through special Shimano Di2 schools. Yet, when I picked the bike up, nobody could show me how to remove the unit to charge it up. I ended up getting the info from U-tube.

Hard to find a good mechanic but I know a federal judge who is also a tri-athlete. I'll ask her.

I guess my concerns are other "hidden" types of things that could potentially be dangerous. But I also have several other bad things happening in my life right now, so I know I'm not thinking with my most sensible brain. That's why I enlisted my TE sisters!

This is a regular Trek store - that is all they sell. I have been waiting for a carbon fiber stem for over 3 months. After that comes in, I'm going to find me a mechanic. I will need a relationship with a good wrench anyway, since I'm never going back there. And I will write a letter to Trek.

[azfiddle]

Hey Dogmama,

There is another store that carries Treks on the east side of Tucson(Broadway Bikes). One of my friends goes there, and I can ask her about the mechanics. I think Fair Wheel also works on Treks and they have a great reputation.

If you get that thing fixed- let's go for a ride sometime!

[Sky King]

Sometimes Sh** happens, sounds like you have had more than one concern with the shop though. Do let the shop owner know why you won't be returning.
As others have said, the bike itself isn't the issue. Find someone you can trust and have them check it over.
Best of luck

[Eden]

Wow.... that sounds just like my story. I just had my crank arm fall off (of my newly built bike - new frame transferred components) *in a race* and yes I went flying. Fortunately I did not take out any other racers in the process. I wasn't seriously injured, but I did sprain/stove my thumb and it doesn't feel like it is healing very well. I wish it had given me some kind of indication, but I had no clues that anything was wrong with the bike. I've since also discovered that one of the brake pad holders wasn't tightened down. It makes me seriously wonder what else....

I also had a set of wheels in at the same shop to be rebuilt and that turned into a fiasco as well. They had them for a couple of weeks and I heard nothing, nothing, nothing..... so finally I called up and oh.... yeah the rims were back ordered from Mavic- yadda-yadda- end of May- yadda - yadda - they just told us.... So I told them to find something else (the mechanic told me she hadn't been too worried because I told her I had other wheels..... *actually* I told her that having to rebuild those wheels was leaving me in a spot because that left me without my race bike - getting a new crank installed- *or* my rain bike because I did not have spare set....) Anyhoo yet another week goes by with absolutely no contact from shop A and I'm in a different shop on an unrelated matter and I ask him if he as any 650 rims. He proceeds to find a set that meet my approval in about 10 min (no light, racy, fancy rims please - this is my *rain* bike they need to take a beating) and I say go for it - order them I want my commuter back. 5 min later, I call shop A and talk to the owner, tell him forget it, I'll pick up the wheels in a day or two. Shop A mechanic calls me back the next day - oh but I found a set of rims and ordered them..... Sorry honey too late... you should have *called* me as soon as you knew - I at least gave you that courtesy. This is the same person who called me during my bike build to make sure that I was OK with a rear derailleur that was matte silver instead of shiny silver (like I care....), but she didn't call to ask for my approval and at least to let me know that she'd ordered me a set of rims!?!?!

I don't see seeking any damages out of them, but I'm definitely finished with this shop. I get the feeling the damage to their reputation is probably bad enough - it was at a race.... lots of people saw it happen and it's not exactly a secret who did the work.

[Dogmama]

Sometimes Sh** happens, sounds like you have had more than one concern with the shop though. Do let the shop owner know why you won't be returning.
As others have said, the bike itself isn't the issue. Find someone you can trust and have them check it over.
Best of luck

I know that people make mistakes & I certainly do! But when I start adding stuff up, it sums to negligence. For example (little stuff) they scratched my handlebars installing a new stem, they've been putting me off for 3 months on a new carbon fiber stem that they owe me, there is the rim tape & flat issues & now this. Other stuff too, that I'm sure I just buried in my mind.

DH says I should have another bike shop check it over completely & give the bill to the Trek shop. I'm not sure I even want to deal with them anymore, though. After awhile, my peace of mind (or lack thereof) becomes paramount.

[Melalvai]

The Bike League's Smart Cycling program teaches the ABC Quick Check:
Air, Brakes Cranks & chain, QUICK release levers, CHECK shifting & function with a short ride.

I do this every morning before I get on my bike. I turn the pedals backwards, stopping every quarter-turn to give them a wiggle. I stand on the left side of the bike to do this so I might not notice if it was the right crank that was loose.

Does anyone know, would this routine detect a loose crank? Eden mentioned that there was no warning before her crank fell off. So that got me to wondering if I'm safe from this happening because of my ABC Quick Check habit.

[Eden]

The right side crank is integrated into the spider that holds the big ring on and the axle (on my Shimano cranks at least). Being all one piece I don't think that it's possible for the right side to pull off the way the left can.

I didn't notice anything amiss before I pulled the crank off - no funny noises, no slipping. I don't think that it simply loosened up though. I think it was installed improperly in the first place... The mechanic that worked on it started saying something about how many bikes had it been on, it was just moved around too much and the bolt holes had stripped.... um no.... that was the original frame it came on and I think it had only been off once maybe twice when I'd had the bottom bracket overhauled... If the bolt holes were stripped well...

[smilingcat]

I'm sorry to hear of your accident in your race. I wish you speedy recovery and I hope your bike is okay too.

you can't strip that bolt on the crank arm. You would need to be a 500 pound gorilla or use an impact wrench. Regular bike shop would have neither.

I wonder if there is some weakness in the design as well. I've had my crank come loose on SRAM force. I do my own wrenching and I tightened down that bolt super tight. Last time it came loose, I ended up using a very small drop of lock-tight, the kind you can break loose as an added precaution. Granted, I'm no where as strong as a regular sized men, so my super tight may only be so so tight to an average guy.

[Dogmama]

I didn't notice anything amiss before I pulled the crank off - no funny noises, no slipping. I don't think that it simply loosened up though. I think it was installed improperly in the first place...

That's my story exactly. No warning. Do you have a cotter pin holding it in place? The shop manager said that was part left out of mine. If the cotter pin had been in place, the cap (or whatever) may have come loose but the cotter pin would be the saving grace to keep the crank on.

What makes me crazy is - this ain't rocket science but sure spells bad consequences for sloppy workmanship - as you found out. Sorry about your spill!

[Melalvai]

You would need to be a 500 pound gorilla or use an impact wrench. Regular bike shop would have neither.
You mean not all bike shops stock a 500 pound gorilla? I guess we're just lucky. :D

[ny biker]

If a crank came off my bike three days after I bought it, I would absolutely take the bike back to the shop and make them fix it.

If I had a series of problems with mechanical work done by my LBS, I would talk to the manager about it, and if he did not respond appropriately I would escalate it to the owners. Even if I never return to that shop again, they need to know that their sloppy work is endangering their customers.

The people who run my LBS put a premium on customer service. It's the reason I travel 20 miles to their shop, passing plenty of other shops along the way. A few years back their mechanic broke my front derailleur while adjusting it. It was a Tiagra that never worked right, so there was probably metal fatigue from too many adjustments. But the mechanic apologized and replaced it for free -- with an Ultegra.

[westtexas]

Dogmama - I am very sorry for your troubles. You can come to my shop out here anytime. It may be a small town in BFE west Texas, but they do a good job. I watched them build my bike, so I know it was done right. And I second what everyone said about choose your mechanic, not your shop. Luckily in my case, both are good - although I trust one of the wrenches in the back infinitely more than the others. Luckily all are supervised by a guy who's been in the game longer than I've been alive, so I am always confident with their work.

I have nothing else to add except I understand your frustration and to invite you to west Texas anytime ;)

[pll]

Dogmama: The bad service is alarming. Find a good bike shop and mechanic and please have them reassemble the bike. A bolt in the crank arm might have been lose, but they might have overtightened others and that could be problematic with carbon bikes.

[Dogmama]

Dogmama: The bad service is alarming. Find a good bike shop and mechanic and please have them reassemble the bike. A bolt in the crank arm might have been lose, but they might have overtightened others and that could be problematic with carbon bikes.

Exactly.

Well, it continues. I picked up my bike. No explanations about the crank arm except that they had a "shop meeting." When I got it home, I noticed they made three huge gashes in the stem cap and on the handlebars. I called & they said they'd order another stem cap & want to "look"at the handlebars.

It never ends.

They still owe me a carbon fiber stem. I'm going to take that and the new cap to a different shop. They won't lay another wrench on my bike. Period.

Oh, they did tell me how I can check the screws on the crank before I ride. Did I buy a Walmart bike? Am I dreaming this?

DH and I have spent almost $10K at this shop in the past six months (he bought a bike too.) You'd think the owner would have called me by now with an apology & offer a free tune up or whatever. Nothing but crickets chirping. Unbelievable.

[Dogmama]

DH and I have spent almost $10K at this shop in the past six months (he bought a bike too.) You'd think the owner would have called me by now with an apology & offer a free tune up or whatever. Nothing but crickets chirping. Unbelievable.

Need to add something - not that I expect or want free stuff. I just think it would be a good gesture on his part that would acknowledge the migraines I've had with his shop. But not even a phone call? He was in his office when I went in & I was told he was "in a meeting."

[smilingcat]

There is just no excuse with gashing components and damaging the bike stem. Definitely no more at that shop!

Terrible. :mad:

[pll]

No explanations about the crank arm except that they had a "shop meeting." When I got it home, I noticed they made three huge gashes in the stem cap and on the handlebars. I called & they said they'd order another stem cap & want to "look"at the handlebars.


I would be so mad. Post reviews of that bike shop.

[nuliajuk]

...Today my pedal fell off because they neglected to install an integral part - the cotter pin that holds the pedal on...
Cotter pin? I'm confused. Crank arms used to be held on with cotter pins back in the 70s, but I've never, ever, seen a pedal held on that way.

[Dogmama]

Cotter pin? I'm confused. Crank arms used to be held on with cotter pins back in the 70s, but I've never, ever, seen a pedal held on that way.

I'm confused too. When I initially brought the bike in, that's what the guy told me. When I went back & asked pointedly about what happened, he danced around the cotter pin story. Talked about a compression something - I really don't know. I'm not a mechanic. It was obvious, though, that he was not being straightforward. I thought he was trying to avoid a potential lawsuit for negligence. Maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about. BTW, he is the "shop manager."

Regarding posting a review - as soon as I get my parts, Angie's list is getting an earful about this shop.

[OakLeaf]

That had me scratching my head too. Cerclip maybe? Not that I've ever seen one of those on the crank side of a pedal spindle either...

[ny biker]

I'm confused too. When I initially brought the bike in, that's what the guy told me. When I went back & asked pointedly about what happened, he danced around the cotter pin story. Talked about a compression something - I really don't know. I'm not a mechanic. It was obvious, though, that he was not being straightforward. I thought he was trying to avoid a potential lawsuit for negligence. Maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about. BTW, he is the "shop manager."

Regarding posting a review - as soon as I get my parts, Angie's list is getting an earful about this shop.

I think Trek needs to get an earful about this shop. If someone is injured due to their negligence, Trek will be named in the lawsuit, too.

[Dogmama]

Somebody mentioned the fact that carbon fiber needs to be torqued correctly to avoid cracks. I'm concerned that there is more going on with this bike. So, I am going to have it checked out from wheel to wheel by another shop. I'm going to ask them to note everything they find. Then, you're right NY Biker, I'm going to Trek.

BTW, I read some recent Google reviews about this shop & apparently I'm not the only person they've danced around.

[Becky]

Cotter pin? I'm confused. Crank arms used to be held on with cotter pins back in the 70s, but I've never, ever, seen a pedal held on that way.

I was wondering about this too. The best that I can figure is that the shop installed the plastic threaded cap that seats the non-drive crank arm on the spindle, but didn't tighten the pinch bolts that actually hold the crank arm to the spindle splines. I'm making the giant assumption that this is a Shimano external BB crankset or similar design, and not something else.

[Dogmama]

I was wondering about this too. The best that I can figure is that the shop installed the plastic threaded cap that seats the non-drive crank arm on the spindle, but didn't tighten the pinch bolts that actually hold the crank arm to the spindle splines. I'm making the giant assumption that this is a Shimano external BB crankset or similar design, and not something else.

This sounds like what I have.

More gripes - I doubt that the "thorough inspection" was performed. My quick release skewers are in exactly the same position as when I took the bike in.

I'm wishing that my sport was running.:(

[ridebikeme]

I definitiely agree with others, that you should ALWAYS shop for your mechanic/sales person vs the shop. I will also say that I feel horrible that you are having these issues as well!!

As a shop owner and someone who has been in the bike industry for 20 years, I've seen a lot of things happen over the years as I'm sure many of you have. Some for the better, some not... but I keep reminding myself that every industry has these same issues. With that, I hope that most people( including shop owners) pay attention and take care of their customers.

I did however want to make a couple of comments about your problem(s). I would defintiely recommend that you contact Trek directly and immediately! I can only imagine that a company such as theirs doesn't want people unhappy with their product and would want to find out from the shop exactly what happened and why. So please do that. They can also recommend another shop for you to take the bike to. If Trek should have any questions, then the second shop would likely be the one that would be contacted. And if parts should need to be replaced, then they could be sent to this shop as well.

AS for your crank coming loose and the rim tape, there are two scenerios in this case. First, most bikes are assembled from the manufacturer, and although shops finish the assembling process... there were actually two different phases to your build... namely Trek and your shop. Both of course, should have noticed the problem.

And lastly, for those of you that have had issues with cranks coming loose, I want to send something else for you to consider. If a crank has come loose a couple of times, or has been coming loose for a period of time, it can also cause issues with the bottom bracket. What I mean by that is that as the crank is loose, it can move back and forth on the axle of the bottom bracket. Even if the wear appears very small on the axle, it can cause HUGE problems. What that essentially means is that no matter how tight someone tightens the crank, it will always come loose! The tolerance of fit with the crank and bottom bracket axle are very minimal. So, for those of you that have mentioned that your shop would 'show' you how to tighten this periodically... well it can likely mean that you have the above problem. PLEASE have another shop/mechanic check this for you immediately!!! When your crank is allowed to move on the bottom bracket axle, it not only wears the axle but it also wears the crank... a new bottom bracket alone will NOT solve the problem.

AS for torquing, everything on a bike whether carbon or aluminum should be torqued and to the right specifications for that piece/brand... stems, cranks all have different specs for that. So another a great reason to have another shop check it... ask them also to write down anything that they should find out of sorts... this will be more information for TRek.

Lastly, I know I and others have said this, PLEASE have another shop check this bike immediately for your safety and piece of mind. Good luck with everything!!!

[Dogmama]

WOW and THANK YOU for all of that great information!! I'm printing out your post so I can have it with my files.

I will contact Trek and ask them for a shop recommendation. I was going to take the bike to Phoenix (120 miles away) because that is the closest Trek custom design shop. But if I can stay in Tucson, that is good too.

Just one questions - so you are saying that rim tape that is not abutted is NOT a good thing? I ask because Tucson is heating up, so tire pressures will go up and I'm not keen on changing a flat in 100 degree temps.

Thanks again. I wish your shop wasn't across the US, I'd bring my bike to you! (Although, Maine is nice this time of year...:))

[OakLeaf]

There's no way to know whether a fastener has been overtorqued (unless there's visible damage). So have your wrench check the carbon as well as the fasteners.

[Dogmama]

There's no way to know whether a fastener has been overtorqued (unless there's visible damage). So have your wrench check the carbon as well as the fasteners.

How do they check the carbon?

[ridebikeme]

Dogmama,

Rim tape generally does cover the entire rim, although I have seen some companies that are a bit too short. That generally does not cause problems unless there's a hole from a spoke that is uncovered or a rough spot on the rim.( tht doesn't happen all that often) But generally, the rim tape does cover the entire rim.

Good luck with everything, definitely keep us posted!

[OakLeaf]

How do they check the carbon?

This isn't something I know much about, but if it was my frame I'd want it inspected the same as they might after a crash, except focused on the clamped and bolted areas. Careful visual inspection plus I think they might tap it to check for changes in the sound.

[nuliajuk]

I'm confused too. When I initially brought the bike in, that's what the guy told me. When I went back & asked pointedly about what happened, he danced around the cotter pin story... thought he was trying to avoid a potential lawsuit for negligence. Maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about. BTW, he is the "shop manager."...

I suspect he doesn't know what he's talking about if he called it a "cotter pin".
This is what a cycling related cotter pin was (I'm old enough to remember tapping them out with a mallet to take my crankset off):
http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters.html
Don't get any more work done at this shop. Period. And by all means let Trek know about it.

[Dogmama]

Going on their website, I kept seeing that email was requested as means to contact. Thought it would be a good idea since I would have record of contact. I sent them the chronology of the bike since I picked it up. Now thinking that I should call them also. I've had things just disappear into cyberspace too many times.

[Dogmama]

Well, I sent the email to the address they provide and got a response that they are going to have the warranty department contact me.

I'll let you all know.

Thanks for talking me off the roof! :D

[Kiwi Stoker]

That's a good sign. Warranty department is THE place for anything that might be damaged. They have the authority to replace parts etc. Plus they have the equipment to assess it as well. They know what cracks etc look like.

Normally it's rare to talk to warranty, even the stores. They have to talk to customer service usually.

[Dogmama]

That's a good sign. Warranty department is THE place for anything that might be damaged. They have the authority to replace parts etc. Plus they have the equipment to assess it as well. They know what cracks etc look like.

Normally it's rare to talk to warranty, even the stores. They have to talk to customer service usually.

THANKS! Feeling better already!

Took it out & everything seems OK right now. Except there is a big orange ring between the crank & the frame - sort of a spacer or a ...??? It really clashes with my deep purple/forest green frame :D.

Any ideas what this is?

[laura*]

Except there is a big orange ring between the crank & the frame - sort of a spacer or a ...??? It really clashes with my deep purple/forest green frame :D.

Any ideas what this is?

Can you post a picture?

[Dogmama]

I tried to get a picture but can't get a clear one. It's too dark down there & the contrast doesn't show.

Still waiting for Trek to get back to me...crickets chirping...

[Penny4]

If you don't hear back shortly,you could post something on their Facebook page. I see lots of posts on there from people who have emailed, but not heard back. They seem to get pretty quick responses.
Just put the date you sent the email, and which dept you sent to, etc and say you have not heard back yet.
Good luck!

[Dogmama]

Thanks! I'll do that!

[Dogmama]

Wow - if they actually carry through, I'm totally impressed! I gave them my problems, chapter & verse, through an email & got a call from "Jeff." He called the store & verified my story. He has agreed to:

Replacing the scratched CF handlebars.

Will pay to have another Trek independent store go through the bike completely. There is another store & mechanic that have been recommended to me by several people (Patrick at Fairwheels - for all you Tucson folks.)

Will give me DH's duotrap for his FX for free.

Will make sure my new CF stem & cap are in the Trek store.

He also said he would give me "products" - but honestly, I just want my bike to be reliable. So, DH's duotrap is fine. I told him it would be a cold day in hell before they touched my bike again & he said, "I was hoping you'd say that." Don't know what that meant - but glad he agrees.

So - if it all pans out - I'm TOTALLY impressed. He was extremely nice, called back when he said he would, said he'd call on Monday with the details and would arrange for me to take my bike into Fairwheels.

Yahoo!!!

Thanks again, TE Sisters, for talking me off the roof. I was SOOOO angry!

[OakLeaf]

Yay! That's great news. Hope it all comes together quick and perfect from here on out.



I told him it would be a cold day in hell before they touched my bike again & he said, "I was hoping you'd say that." Don't know what that meant - but glad he agrees.

Probably that it has to go through the shop that sold the bike unless the customer refuses. You said the magic words. :)