AP stylebook on "hopefully"

[PamNY]

I must be getting old. I know language evolves and changes, but this one has always bothered me. Hopefully, some of you understand how I feel. :(

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/aps-approval-of-hopefully-symbolizes-larger-debate-over-language/2012/04/17/gIQAti4zOT_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines

[salsabike]

Nope---you're one of my favorite TE folks so I sympathize in general, but "hopefully" just doesn't bother me much, even though---or maybe because-- I've spent most of my life trying to make sure I don't say it :) I think split infinitives can sound better than non-split ones, too. :):) But I appreciate the general "guardian of good language" approach.

[lph]

Um. I just read the article twice, and I can't see what "hopefully" is now accepted to mean.

Am I growing old, or wasn't it there? Hopefully, the latter.

:rolleyes:

[PamNY]

Relevant portion from the Post article:


Then, on Tuesday morning, the venerated AP Stylebook publicly affirmed (via tweet, no less) what it had already told the American Copy Editors Society: It, too, had succumbed. “We now support the modern usage of hopefully,” the tweet said. “It is hoped, we hope.”

“We batted this around, as we do a lot of things, and it just seemed like a logical thing to change,” says David Minthorn, the deputy standards editor of the Associated Press.

Previously, the only accepted meaning was: “In a hopeful manner.” As in, “ ‘Surely you are joking,’ the grammarian said hopefully

[indysteel]

There are a number of usages and grammatical mistakes that I find annoying, but "hopefully" and most other disjuncts are not among them. I use/arguably misuse them frequently. I've read a number of discussions over time, including this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disjunct_(linguistics)), that indicate that the usage has been around a long time and hasn't always been as disfavored as it ultimately became. As you say, Pam, language evolves--for better or for worse. C'est la vie.

[lph]

oh, I see. Since "as in" (it is hoped, we hope) was missing, that part of the tweet didn't make sense to me and my mind just blithely ignored it :D

[Chile Pepper]

Ack! It may be acceptable, but I don't have to use it. Salsabike--split infinitives are accepted, though you shouldn't overuse the construction.

[PamNY]

I've seen the Wikipedia disjunct examples. Full disclosure: I'm probably never going to say "They worked with seriousness.":D

But "hopefully" still bothers me.

[malkin]

In formal or academic writing I've never had occasion to use "hopefully" at all and in conversation I am more likely to use "we can only hope.'

I dislike "hopefully" as much as I dislike "I feel..." used in any context other than disclosing feelings.

[Tri Girl]

Ha! I must be a pariah to those who adore proper grammar. I use hopefully all the time and it has never bothered me. I've never even thought twice about using it. Until now...

but yeah, I'll still use it.

[yellow]

Reading this post made me think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHvmlA2hLyw

I don't think I got it in 1974, but I liked the song.

:D

[malkin]

I love Lolly!

[salsabike]

Ack! It may be acceptable, but I don't have to use it. Salsabike--split infinitives are accepted, though you shouldn't overuse the construction.

I know split infinitives are NOW accepted, but they were once in the same position as "hopefully".

I like the fluidity of language; it changes as our lives change. I enjoy that.

[Chile Pepper]

I know split infinitives are NOW accepted, but they were once in the same position as "hopefully".

Even Fowler prefers a split infinitive "to real ambiguity and to patent artificiality." It's not new, so use it with confidence.

[Pax]

I know split infinitives are NOW accepted, but they were once in the same position as "hopefully".

I like the fluidity of language; it changes as our lives change. I enjoy that.

Agreed, I'd hate to still have to be using words like forsooth and verily. :p

[PamNY]

I think "forsooth" is a great word.

[Pax]

I think "forsooth" is a great word.

I remember it from HS English class, maybe reading Shakespeare?

[malkin]

If you say "forsooth" does that make you a "forsooth-sayer?"

[salsabike]

Yea, verily.


(I HAD to)

[OakLeaf]

I miss "vouchsafe." The joys of growing up Episcopalian pre-1976. :cool:


Also, the issue was covered generally in this piece (http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/arguing-about-language/) last week. Pretty good reading I thought.

[Crankin]

I am generally old fashioned when it comes to grammar, but I never knew hopefully was being incorrectly used. I don't use it that often in speech, probably less in writing, but I don't feel badly that I have said this word.

[PamNY]

Yea, verily.


(I HAD to)

Of course you did. Hopefully everyone understands. :D

[malkin]

I am generally old fashioned when it comes to grammar, but I never knew hopefully was being incorrectly used. I don't use it that often in speech, probably less in writing, but I don't feel badly that I have said this word.

Hopefully, no one will feel badly about it.
;)

[Crankin]

Normally, I would say "I don't feel bad."
I will not police oral language....

[malkin]

I'm sorry if you heard a teacher's red ink or an editor's blue pencil. I didn't intend to police.

I like watching informal language roll by, like a parade, or like the dog walkers on my street. When there's something interesting, I just smile and wave.

[salsabike]

I like watching informal language roll by, like a parade, or like the dog walkers on my street. When there's something interesting, I just smile and wave.

<like> :)

[shootingstar]

I think my grammar has degraded alot. I blame myself for the computer since the tool allows me to jot down thoughts almost too fast since I'm able to hit the computer Send button too soon at times.

What a terrible sentence I just wrote.

Well, at least we don't have to worry in English about masculine or feminine proper articles for inanimate objects, as required in French, German, etc.