Mens vs Womens bike issue

[emichele]

So I just recently bought my first real bike, a Cannondale Quick 4. I'd been biking for about a year before but on a really cheap bike.

I went to a few stores, tried out the Trek FX line, the Giant Escape, Specialized Vita, and Cannondale Quick. I had narrowed it down to between the Vita and what I thought was the Quick 5 Women's bike, both at the same store. Due to either weather or work, I went back about a month later, intending to choose between the two, leaning toward the Cannondale, because it had a smoother ride and the handlebars were not so wide. When I went back they didn't have the Quick 5 so they said I should try the Quick 4 and if I liked it, they'd discount it. Well I didn't go out on either bike for too long, because I had already done a test ride before. I definitely sat better in the Cannondale, so I went for that one. But I had them give me the specialized saddle, because after riding like 15 different bikes, that was the one that was the most comfortable. They put it on but didn't adjust it, and I rode it home, which is when I realized I wasn't seated so properly on it.

I went back and had them adjust it this past weekend but I was running late for somewhere so I didn't have time to mess around w/ it. It's still not that great, so I'm gonna have to go back again this weekend. I keep feeling like the saddle should be closer, or that it's not tilted right. All the bike shops around here are closed by the time I finish work, so I really have no option but to go there on weekends.

When I was looking at bike specs online, I discovered that the bike I bought is the men's version, because they don't have that color in the women's version. So now I'm wondering (1) if I actually tried the women's version of the Quick 5, and (2) if it was the women's version I tried the first time, could the difference in size be the reason I feel the saddle is too far back?

I'm gonna go back and have them readjust things this weekend, but I'm wondering if I should mention that I thought it was the women's bike and it's not, and see what they say. Is there anything I should insist on as far as adjusting goes? Or do I just have to have them keep doing it and then take a ride on it until it's better?

Thanks

[goldfinch]

What size did you get? It looks like the women's sizes are offered in xs (26 inch wheel), petite, small and tall and the bike not marketed as a women's bike is offered in xs (again, a 26 inch wheel), small, medium, large, extra large and jumbo. The smalls seem to be the same geometry, just looking at the geometry chart.

http://www.cannondale.com/2012-quick-womens-4-21041
http://www.cannondale.com/2012/bikes/recreation-urban/recreation/quick/2012-quick-4-21002

The colors for the women's is different. It looks like the saddles are different. Otherwise, unless I am missing something they look the same.

[zoom-zoom]

AFAIK, Cannondale men's and women's frames are IDENTICAL. The only differences are in things like handlebar width and brake lever sizes (and only for Shimano, as SRAM are much more adjustable from the get-go), at least on their road bikes. I know the specs on their mountain bikes are also identical, aside from cosmetics and handlebar width. And saddles. The actual frame geometries are the same.

Right now I'm eyeballing a Cannondale mtn. bike upgrade (since the one I have is a bit small for me and almost fits my 11 year old DS). I would likely go with a men's model, since I prefer the colors. Then we'd simply cut the handlebars narrower to fit me better.

[Penny4]

How long was your test ride vs your first "real" ride?

I only ask because I bought my first road bike this year. My test ride was pretty short, and I thought the bike felt great. On my first real ride, I was in so much pain and discomfort after about 8 miles. I thought maybe I had made a bad decision and chosen the wrong size/frame, etc.

I went back to the LBS, they double checked the fit (and didn't change anything) and told me to keep riding. I did. Turns out I just was not used to the geometry of the new road bike over my old hybrid and it just took me a while to acclimate. Now...I love it. :)

Is your position on the new bike very different from your old bike?

[emichele]

I got the medium. I was looking online and it appears that the men's medium falls somewhere between the women's small and tall in most areas. I don't know enough about frames and frame geometries to say whether they look proportional from the specs. I thought womens bikes were supposed to have proportionally shorter top tubes to help w/ reaching the handlebars.

I'm 5'4, so I'm not sure what frame size is appropriate. With the Trek WSD they put me in a 15" Frame, I had a lot of trouble w/ the saddle being too close, among other things. I tried the Vita in 2 sizes and the smaller of the two was more appropriate. I don't know if that was the medium/large or small/medium. Since they showed me the Vita, which is just a women's bike, I assumed the Quick I first test-rode was the women's version, but as I said, I'm now second-guessing that.

The women's version of the Quick has "Lock on" grips, I'm not sure what that means, and yes, the handlebar is a bit smaller. I don't have a problem gripping the brake levers thankfully.

[Owlie]

You'll find that for many bikes, there's just not that much difference between the "men's" bikes and women's, unless you're on the shorter side...and even then, that's only "maybe."

[zoom-zoom]

Interesting...in looking at the geometry charts Cannondale actually DOES have pretty noticeable differences between their men's and women's frames. There are 6 available sizes for men and only 4 for women. And the sizes don't correlate as expected.

You ended up with a men's medium...what size was the women's you tested? You're about my height--a medium sounds maybe a hair big for you. My current Cannondale mountain bike is an XS/Petite. That's a bit too small for me (I'm 5'3.5" and like to be in a fairly stretched-out position). A small should be perfect. A Tall would be too big.

In the Quick I think I'd likely need a S in the women's or the men's. Those sizes appear to be the same across both genders.

[emichele]

The last bike I had was I guess like a city bike w/ the big seat, and a basket on the front, and 3 speeds.

I don't know what size I tried the first time in the Quick 5. I figured if I went back they would just give me the same sizes to try. My test rides were about 10 mins each the first time and maybe a little shorter the 2nd time.

[Melalvai]

I'm 5'4, so I'm not sure what frame size is appropriate. With the Trek WSD they put me in a 15" Frame, I had a lot of trouble w/ the saddle being too close, among other things.
I'm 5'5" and I ride a Trek WSD 17" frame. However, that doesn't mean a lot because my husband is also 5'5" and we are proportioned completely differently. He has short legs, long torso, long arms. If he biked I'm sure he would not be comfortable on my bike.

I agree you should keep working with your bike shop, ask if there's any geometry differences between the frames. Bike fit is mostly about the bike and the rest is about tweaking saddle height, saddle tilt, moving the saddle back and forth along its rails to be closer or further from the handlebar. It can take a long time to get it dialed in just right for you. It helps to get a multitool and learn how to make these adjustments yourself, especially if you're restricted to that bike shop's weekend hours. They are pretty simple adjustments to make.

Good luck!
Rachel

[emichele]

My friend has a multitool that I can use but the shop should be able to set me up w/ it properly. If I should actually be in a small, whether men's or women's, and not the medium, I'm pretty much out of options cuz I already bought the bike.

My inseam appears to be between 75 and 76cm w/ bare feet, so between 29.5 and 30".

[zoom-zoom]

My friend has a multitool that I can use but the shop should be able to set me up w/ it properly. If I should actually be in a small, whether men's or women's, and not the medium, I'm pretty much out of options cuz I already bought the bike.

My inseam appears to be between 75 and 76cm w/ bare feet, so between 29.5 and 30".

Sounds like we are body doubles, almost! Yeah, I'm suspicious that the bike that fit you so well was a size smaller. :confused: I doubt I'd be comfortable on a medium, either.

Do they have any record of the size you test rode? If they screwed up and sold you a markedly different size than what you tested, then it should be on them to make it right, even if you've already purchased the bike and rode it around.

[Sky King]

Grab the multi tool, make some adjustments, go out on the bike, take the tool with you. Fitting your saddle isn't an exact science and it often takes a few trials to get it right. Other options abound - different seat post, different handlebars. Don't panic and go have fun

[emichele]

The first time I rode the bikes at this shop, I rode the Quick 5 in one size and the Vita in 2 sizes, but I have no idea what sizes those were. The second time I rode them, I was more concerned with how smooth the ride was since I assessed that I sat fine in both the quick 5 and the smaller vita. The bike I rode the 2nd time was the one I bought but I again just assumed it was the same as the previous time but in the next model up. I mean I can go back and ask if maybe I rode the size smaller the first time because the saddle had to be moved back instead of forward and see what they say.

[ny biker]

My friend has a multitool that I can use but the shop should be able to set me up w/ it properly. If I should actually be in a small, whether men's or women's, and not the medium, I'm pretty much out of options cuz I already bought the bike.

My inseam appears to be between 75 and 76cm w/ bare feet, so between 29.5 and 30".

Not necessarily. My road bike was bought first by someone else and she returned it because she didn't like the gears. So depending on the shop policy, you might be able to exchange it for a different size. I would definitely talk to them about the situation.

[Melalvai]

I am curious, if you have time could you measure from the bottom bracket (that's where the pedals attach) to the top of the seat tube (where the seat post goes in-- don't measure the seat post itself)? That's where they got 15" on the Trek you tried. Your height & measurements are pretty close to mine and I ride a 17". My old bike was 15" and it was too small. I made it work with an extra long seatpost and some other adjustments. I can ride my dad's 19"-- with a lot of adjustments.

The bike size, and the adjustments the bike shop make, will get you pretty close, but I found it was just a lot more convenient to make these tiny adjustments on the spot myself.

It is important to tighten things down really well. My seat slipped more than once-- but since I knew how to adjust it I could get it back into place easily. It was pretty funny when it was saddle angle I was tinkering with, and I'd get it where I wanted and then halfway home I'd get goosed when it slipped!

[emichele]

I can get you that measurement tomorrow. My friend just said today that sometimes his seat slips out of place too. I haven't ridden it that much though.

[Hartmame]

I'm surprised that at 5'5" you ride a 17 " frame. I'm 5'4" and ride a 14" it is a Kona which has a pretty streached out geometry which might be why it fits so well I tried a 13" Trek which was too short and a 15" which didn't have enough stand over height. It is all about how each of us is proportioned though.

[emichele]

I am curious, if you have time could you measure from the bottom bracket (that's where the pedals attach) to the top of the seat tube (where the seat post goes in-- don't measure the seat post itself)?

I'm not sure if I'm taking the measurements right but from the bottom of where the pedals attach to where the seatpost starts is 18.5" From the top of where the pedals attach is 16.5"

[Melalvai]

I'm not sure if I'm taking the measurements right but from the bottom of where the pedals attach to where the seatpost starts is 18.5" From the top of where the pedals attach is 16.5"
I should have specified from the center of the bottom bracket. I think you have a 17" frame. I could be wrong, because as Hartmame pointed out it's not all height, proportions are important, but I suspect your bike is a good size for you and the rest of it will be tweaking it to get it just right for you.

Which you already knew. :)

[emichele]

Yeh, I will go back this weekend and see what they say. Just out of curiosity, is there a way to elevate the handlebars on bikes like this? Admittedly I'm used to riding a bike that has a far more upright position (like this ugly thing (http://amiensveloservice.fubicy.org/Images/Velos/veloville.JPG) without the rack and baby carrier), and I'm sure once the saddle is setup right I'll get used to the riding position.

[MGM]

Hi there, emichele. Congrats on a great bike choice! I have a Quick 3, which I love. The Quicks have a lively yet smooth, comfortable, and pretty fast ride for a hybrid. They are light. I don't think you're necessarily on the wrong size frame. I'll tell you why by telling you my experiences in buying this bike.

I went through quite a bit of second guessing on frame sizes too. I'm a bit taller than you, 5'6", and I ended up on a women's tall. I thought at first I might've gone too large, but it is perfect. I thought the medium would be okay, as I had several shops assure me they could fit me to a medium. And I'm sure they could've, somewhat. The shop I bought from, who has a very good fitter, convinced me to let them build a tall for me. At first ride it felt too large, but the more I rode it the better it was. I now feel that it's perfect. We set it up with a more forward, aggressive position, as I wanted it to be my flat bar road bike. A year later and I'm ready to go roadie. Can't believe I got comfortable in a forward position!

If you have longish legs, the medium should be good. Cannondale Quick frames are women specific; that is, they have slightly differing geometry than the men's. But the medium frame only comes in the unisex version, not WSD. As I said, I'm only 2 inches taller and I'm on the next size up. If, however, you have short legs then the women's small might fit you better. But at 5'4" you probably don't need a small. The shop you bought from should be able to size you and set you up comfortably. Yes, you can raise the height of the handlebars. But rather than trying to get more upright like your old clunker, why not try to get used to a bit more forward position? You'll get better results from the energy that you put in, and soon you may be asking for that bar to go lower!

It takes a while to get the saddle adjusted to your liking, once you start putting some miles on it. If you don't feel it's right get yourself a multi tool and play around with it on a ride. Try tilting it up, as often shops send the bike out with the saddle nose down (men!), and try it a little more forward or back. A year later and I'm still adjusting my saddle. And I've tried 3 different ones trying to find one that's just right. You will find many threads on here about "what saddle" to use. Just keep in mind that if you're riding upright a road saddle will not be the right shape to support you where you need it. And they come in widths to fit your sit bones. The wrong width can cause pressure points too.

Good luck, I hope you find out that you do have the correct size, because you should really enjoy riding this bike!

[emichele]

Ok well I went back today to the store. They're very accommodating. They kept adjusting things, had me try 2 different saddles, and I rode around a bunch. I asked about the frame size and 2 different guys there said the small would be too small for me. They tried changing the stem to raise the handlebars, but that didn't do anything either so they put the original back. So I'll ride it around for another week or two like it is now, and if it's not any better, I'll go back.