Thinking of a road bike, steel? Touring?

[molasses85]

First of all, it is so cool to be among all of you! There's such a wealth of knowledge.

My thread might be a little similar to Jaybee's...sorry if it's long!

Currently I'm riding a Specialized Myka HT. I enjoy riding it on my own and with my family, esp. since I just put Ergon grips.

I'm looking into road bikes (I never ever thought I would do that!!!) since I ride mostly pavement. I've tried out a Specialized Vita, Ruby, a Fuji Finest, Trek FX 7.5 WSD and a Surly LHT that was way too big for me (46 cm). None of them really did anything for me and I esp. didn't like the road feel on the Vita and Trek (both carbon forks).

A couple of days ago I tried a Cannondale Quick CX hybrid (not bad) and a Cannondale Synapse size 44 (alloy w/carbon fork). I was very surprised that I liked the Synapse. I was even ok with the drop bars! Standover was the highest (touching) but overall comfort was pretty good (though the parking lot was pretty smooth). The guy at the store said that the top tube might be a hair short. The other drop bar bikes I tried I felt too stretched out, maybe I'm not used to the positioning.

However, considering my riding needs I wonder if I should look into specifically a steel bike instead of carbon. I have tennis elbow from my music hobby and sometimes carpal tunnel (I'm so glad for those Ergon grips).

I want a solid ride that will be comfortable. Not looking for speed but efficiency. I would like a bike that in the future I can bike to my church 8 miles away (and up a pretty steep hill) and handle the rough pavement. I like the idea of being able to put larger tires to handle the rough stuff but don't know if a bike with say 28s can be good for that.

From my research I'm wondering about touring bikes like a well fitting Surly LHT (except I don't like the bar end shifters) or a regular steel road bike like a Jamis Coda or Bianchi Eros Donna that I'm looking into. I've been talking to a shop that may try to get a Jamis Coda Comp for me to try.

I would really appreciate any help!!! :)

[murielalex]

I don't have much experience with other, but I can say that I'm love my steel bike.

[indysteel]

I have a Bianchi Eros Donna that I love. You might add the Jamis Aurora to your short list, too. Ultimately, fit will have a lot to do with comfort. It's not just a question of frame material, although I do love steel myself. Try as many bikes as you can and give them a solid test ride.

[Hartmame]

I just went through this. I used to ride off road and my Kona Kula 14" was perfect but then I started riding on the road with slick tires, and I could really feel every bump with my Kula. I wanted to find a bike for the right purpose. I went with steel. My LHT fits me very well and is a much better ride. I'm sure you can find a steel bike with STI shifters that will work for you. Good Luck with your search!

[Chicken Little]

There is plenty of steel out there with STI's. Fit, as mentioned, and steel result in the perfect ride. (IMO) Good luck, and have some fun with it.
:D

[BodhiTree]

It is possible to purchase shifters you prefer separately. Then have the bar-end shifters switched for the ones you like better.

[tiva]

I have the Cannondale synapse (feminine 5), which was my first road bike. I love it. I've had it for exactly two years, and the relatively-upright geometry works well for my body and my joint issues. It's actually a lot more comfortable for my elbows than my hybrid bike, oddly enough because my hybrid lets me right much more upright.

I've never tried a steel frame, so I can't compare it.

[tiva]

The other drop bar bikes I tried I felt too stretched out, maybe I'm not used to the positioning.

This has been a huge benefit for me with the Cannondale Synapse as well--it really relieves pressure on the elbow joints, for me anyway. Of all the road bikes I tried, the Synapse felt the best, and 2 years later, I'm still happy with it. Still searching for the perfect seat, however!

[snyderd25]

I have elbow issues too... I know carbon absorbs some shock. I steel better?

[OakLeaf]

In very broad terms, steel can absorb more shock than carbon, but it's also less tuneable, so that it can wind up flexing where you don't want it to.

That's an incredibly broad statement and sure to be inaccurate for particular frames. Each material has a range and there's a lot of overlap. Very much of compliance (shock absorption, flexiness, power transfer, liveliness) depends on the frame construction - specific materials, the way they're put together, and geometry.

Very much of issues that are specific to you will depend on fit, too, and I'm still going to say that that's the #1 consideration. The most compliant frame in the world is still capable of transmitting shock in the wrong direction to a rider who doesn't fit on it. Your body has a great ability to absorb shock in the direction the joints naturally work. It's when fit is off and forces get transmitted across joints instead of through them where the muscles can do their job, that we wind up with problems.

[Sky King]

It is possible to purchase shifters you prefer separately. Then have the bar-end shifters switched for the ones you like better.

yes, as long as you stay with drop bars, shimano only comes in 9 and 10 speeds. sunrace makes an 8 speed and we have been very happy with the quality.

[Sky King]

I have elbow issues too... I know carbon absorbs some shock. I steel better?

Remember a wider tire is going to assist with absorbing road vibration. Consider going with at least a 28 if you are riding a 700C tire.

Also if elbow problems are severe don't rule out a slightly more upright riding position with an albatross or a moustache bar. One of my riding partners has rods in her back and rides a LHT with Albatross bars, she zips along a nice pace, even sitting more upright. Another riding partner is missing a finger and the moustache bars give her a better hand position that doesn't put pressure on her knuckle.

[molasses85]

Wow! Thanks for all the input and shopping well wishes! There's so much to think about!

Sorry if my responses don't include quotes, being a newbie I might mess it up!

tiva, glad you like your Synapse. I know I need to try it again on a little more rough pavement because it might not take a 28 tire as Sky King mentioned. To add, the nice part is with that one I didn't feel any pressure on the nose of the saddle like the others.

Oakleaf, I love your description of how a good fit and joints work the right way. Thankfully my elbow isn't too severe, it will take time though.

I talked with an owner of a local LBS who happens to know someone in the family. He had some concerns on the reach of the LHT with drop bars (flat bars better). He is short and has custom bikes so he understands my size issues (I'm 5'0"). He also was concerned with what I want and the gearing with the 26" wheels (I don't remember exactly, I'll clarify with him).

We talked about the Giant Dash, which has a carbon seatpost and fork which may help with vibrations. It has a high standover but I do the tilt thing at a stop. We had me check out a similarly sized bike and flatfooted was a no go but with the tilt it worked. The Dash comes with 25c tires but was not in stock to try out.

Being still new I'm not crazy about spending the money and building something like a LHT without knowing how it would feel, yet with my size issues it's hard to find one in stock!

It's so nice to see how you and your friends make things work, I know I'll get there, especially with all this help! :)

[Hi Ho Silver]

The original poster said:
"However, considering my riding needs I wonder if I should look into specifically a steel bike instead of carbon. I have tennis elbow from my music hobby and sometimes carpal tunnel (I'm so glad for those Ergon grips)."

I know that a lot of people are going to recommend steel bikes - the "steel is real" belief is alive and well. But my personal experience differs.

I have a CrMo steel road bike with a steel fork. It is roughly equivalent to Surly bikes in quality. The bike has 23mm wide tires on it. I determined my personal "optimal" tire pressures by slowly increasing the psi in each tire until the vibration and jolts were definitely uncomfortable. I found that the highest pressures I can use are 72psi (front) & 96 psi (rear). Even at these lowish pressures, the bike is sometimes uncomfortable on really rough roads.

I also have a Specialized Ruby** carbon fiber bike that has a carbon fiber fork. It too has 23mm wide tires. I can easily and comfortably ride with 95 psi (front) & 115 psi (rear) on any road. Actually, I could increase the pressures even more, but I see no point in pushing it to the edge.

So based on my experience, the Ruby's carbon fiber frame and fork absorb so much more vibration and shock versus the steel bike that I can increase the tire inflation by 20% to 30% to achieve much lower rolling resistance and, at the same time, I enjoy a much smoother ride. Poorly designed carbon fiber frames and forks may not be able to achieve this level of comfort. But those bikes marketed as "road endurance" bikes probably should be as comfy (or nearly as comfy) as my Ruby.

(Note: ** The frame and fork both have "Zertz" inserts.)

[Trek420]

I talked with an owner of a local LBS who happens to know someone in the family. He had some concerns on the reach of the LHT with drop bars (flat bars better). He is short and has custom bikes so he understands my size issues (I'm 5'0"). He also was concerned with what I want and the gearing with the 26" wheels (I don't remember exactly, I'll clarify with him).

I'm 4'11. My custom steel road bike's a 47 cm. I test rode the LHT in a 42 cm. Standover height was great! Read the ride report here:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=17451&highlight=surly

[Kiwi Stoker]

I've got to chime in here about carbon.
Our tandem AL had a steel fork- DH hated it. Lots of vibrations.

We swapped in a carbon fork and he couldn't believe how much it changed.

I don't think you should discount carbon totally- the build and geometry of the bike does affect vibration as well.

Thgere's other things that can help vibration- gloves, gel bar tape, carbon handlebars, having flatter tops and the shape. Also riding position (being more upright so less weight on the hands).

I guess it's a case ot try, try try and don't discount something because it might just work for you.

[Owlie]

Agreed. My Al bike isn't great, but I've ridden an aluminum bike that felt much better than the single carbon bike I've tried. I've never ridden steel (no one has my size!), but they're supposed to be relatively comfortably (Jamis, Surly).

Also, +1 on the fit. I think the carbon bike was a size too big (also a unisex bike so somewhat overbuilt for my weight), and now that my Giant is more properly fitted, it feels loads better.

[Savra]

Not too much to add except to say I'm also pretty short and certainly have short arms but have a LHT. It is the smallest frame they have - (my LBS worked closely with Surly and they all decided smallest was better even though I normally ride around a 48 or 50). The reach on my LHT is better than my road bike - which is WSF. With a Brookes Saddles it is the most comfortable bike I've ever had and I road it across NY state (of course, I don't have a carbon bike so can't compare). The frame size comes with 26" tires and so they are normally wider than road tires.

[molasses85]

Thank you again everyone! I'm so glad to read about differing experiences. Please bear with me and my long post! :)

Hi Ho Silver, interesting on the two bikes and the tires. Your post and Kiwi Stoker's helps in not discounting carbon.

Trek 420 and Savra, thanks for the info on the LHT. One LBS said to consider that if I felt way too stretched out on the 46 I might still feel stretched out on the 42 because the difference on the top tube is only about a half inch. Then again, the employee at the LBS where I tried the 46 was not too helpful and acted like he couldn't be bothered. He didn't go any further about the fit and how it could be helped.

Something I didn't think about until now was the Fuji I tried. When I first tested it, the bike felt pretty good. However my leg wasn't extended as much so the employee adjusted the saddle higher. The bad part was that I no longer felt as comfortable in the cockpit. Any thoughts on that?

I recently tried the Cannondale Quick (53.5 TT). It felt upright and comfortable. I really liked it. However, if I had to be a little nitpicky I would say that it felt maybe a hair slow. The comfort factor was there except for the saddle. That would be the first thing I'd change. The employee noticed that the nose of it was a little wide.

I can't totally discount the Synapse. By numbers it doesn't look like it should fit me (so why does it seem to seem to when the Surly shouldn't?). Also drop bars might not be best for me as a recreational/possible commuter, but I sure enjoyed that initial test ride.

Everyone and Owlie, I think ultimately it's try everything, aluminum, carbon, steel, flat bar, drop bar and find what's the most comfortable!

[Bike Chick]

Everyone and Owlie, I think ultimately it's try everything, aluminum, carbon, steel, flat bar, drop bar and find what's the most comfortable!

There you go! Find what works for you. You will know it when you find it and shopping for a new bike is so much fun.

PS. I have a Jamis Coda and really like the bike.

[Catrin]

... thanks for the info on the LHT. One LBS said to consider that if I felt way too stretched out on the 46 I might still feel stretched out on the 42 because the difference on the top tube is only about a half inch.

That half an inch is a big difference in bike fit, and the standover height is different as well, they should be considered in relationship with each other.. I had a 46cm LHT and the 42cm would have been too small for me. It will be very hard, however, to find a 42cm for you to test ride. The smaller the ride, the harder they are to find to test ride, sadly.


Something I didn't think about until now was the Fuji I tried. When I first tested it, the bike felt pretty good. However my leg wasn't extended as much so the employee adjusted the saddle higher. The bad part was that I no longer felt as comfortable in the cockpit. Any thoughts on that?

Proper leg extension is very important to prevent injury and also to get the most power out of your pedal stroke. Did he only raise the seat? That does change angles, so perhaps once the seat was raised that it needed to be adjusted to assure the proper knee-over-pedal position or perhaps the stem needed adjusting.




I can't totally discount the Synapse. By numbers it doesn't look like it should fit me (so why does it seem to seem to when the Surly shouldn't?). Also drop bars might not be best for me as a recreational/possible commuter, but I sure enjoyed that initial test ride.

Everyone and Owlie, I think ultimately it's try everything, aluminum, carbon, steel, flat bar, drop bar and find what's the most comfortable!

The LHT has a touring geometry so they aren't comparing apples and apples. Personally I dislike and cannot use drop bars (arthritic hands can't handle weight) but I can literally ride my flat bars all day long without pain and have been known to do so. Proper fit is so very important, and the important thing is to get what works best and feels best for you.

I am enjoying reading about your search, it reminds me of my most recent one when I was trying to decide between the Jamis Coda or a custom bike. I went custom for specific fit issues I have, but I do like Jamis bikes.

[molasses85]

That half an inch is a big difference in bike fit, and the standover height is different as well, they should be considered in relationship with each other.. I had a 46cm LHT and the 42cm would have been too small for me. It will be very hard, however, to find a 42cm for you to test ride. The smaller the ride, the harder they are to find to test ride, sadly.

It is sad. I'm not comfortable with just going by numbers and order without trying.



Did he only raise the seat? That does change angles, so perhaps once the seat was raised that it needed to be adjusted to assure the proper knee-over-pedal position or perhaps the stem needed adjusting.


He did adjust the handlebar stem as high as it could go. Still it wasn't as comfy as the first time.



The LHT has a touring geometry so they aren't comparing apples and apples. Personally I dislike and cannot use drop bars (arthritic hands can't handle weight) but I can literally ride my flat bars all day long without pain and have been known to do so. Proper fit is so very important, and the important thing is to get what works best and feels best for you.

I am enjoying reading about your search, it reminds me of my most recent one when I was trying to decide between the Jamis Coda or a custom bike. I went custom for specific fit issues I have, but I do like Jamis bikes.

I would hate to invest in a drop bar bike if it doesn't work for me. From your experience and my first test of a Specialized Ruby (but not with the Synapse?), it sounds like I would not want all the weight on my hands. I just know with flat bars, I should have bar ends with the Ergon-type grips to help my hands.

Custom sure would be nice...unless there's a windfall, I'll have to wait until after my almost 10-year-old goes to college. :p

P.S. Glad I'm figured out the quote thing!:D

[Catrin]

For newer riders core strength often causes an apparent problem with drop bars. Don't give up on them just yet :)

[moderncyclista]

Once you build up your core, drop bars shouldn't be a problem. You don't spend most of your time in the drops anyway. :)

Surly is a great company that makes great bikes. Versatile, comfortable, dependable - spec'd with great level componentry for the price.

Now if I could just get a custom kick-stand-plate for my LHT! Make it, Surly! Make it now! LOL. :D

Between Steel, Aluminum and Carbon - Steel and Carbon will be smoother rides.

Carbon is mostly on race bikes, which have their place but with the streets where I am - I wouldn't commute on. There is a danger, however slim of cracking the frame. I'm not that big of a gambler.

Aluminum transfers more road-buzz to the hands but is cheaper and lightweight. It does have the downside of eventually losing its snappiness due to frame sagging. That takes years though.

Steel is snappy, stiff and can be heavy (depending on the width of tubing/components/etc), but if you're not racing...who cares? I go pretty fast on my LHT. Passed plenty of riders on more expensive rides. LOL!

All of my bikes are steel now, so I'm a wee bit biased! I just feel like more of my power goes to the pedals on steel. No wasted energy. But maybe that's all in my head. :o