From a "woman's persepctive" . . .

[limewave]

I've been asked to contribute to our local cycling clubs blog. Which is nice and I don't mind doing it. However, they keep emphasizing that they want me to write from a "woman's perspective." Make sure you're writing from a woman's perpective. Don't forget to mention it's from a woman's perseptive . . . we really need a woman's perspective . . . :eek:

Isn't the fact that a woman is writing it enough of a female influence? Sheesh!?! What do they want me to do: write about the spokes in my menstrual cycle?

I don't know why this is bothering me so much. Perhaps it's that time of the month for me.

:cool:

[zoom-zoom]

It sounds rather condescending/patronizing to me, too. If they know so much about "woman's perspective," then why don't they just write it themselves...? :rolleyes:

[indysteel]

I totally understand why this is bothering you. In my experience, there's a Catch-22 is emphasizing gender differences. I think most of us can concede-that, as women, our perspective sometimes (not always) does differ from a man's. And I think it's important that our differing perspectives are heard. But I bristle when a man necessarily assumes that my perspective differs from his just because I'm a woman or that if there is a difference is perspective, it can be explained away that easily. Those assumptions often come off as patronizing, condescending and reductive. I also bristle at the assumption that any one woman can speak for all women. As this forum highlights, for all our commonality, we're all very different, too. The fact that we share the same gender doesn't negate that. The best we can do as speak from our own perspective.

But, it's just a blog on a cycling club's website. I may be overthinking this....:rolleyes:

[lph]

Hey, I have an idea. You could start off writing something chock full of the cliches about female riders, stop, point out that it's nonsense, and switch over to the real woman's perspective. Which might be something about being expected to be a specific type of rider just because you're female. Or even something about the vast range of riders you'll find here on TE, representing every end of every spectrum.

[PamNY]

Hey, I have an idea. You could start off writing something chock full of the cliches about female riders, stop, point out that it's nonsense, and switch over to the real woman's perspective. Which might be something about being expected to be a specific type of rider just because you're female. Or even something about the vast range of riders you'll find here on TE, representing every end of every spectrum.

Oooh, that could be lots of fun.:D

Limewave, I would be bothered, too. Though I'm not sure what I would do about it.

[TsPoet]

Hey, I have an idea. You could start off writing something chock full of the cliches about female riders, stop, point out that it's nonsense, and switch over to the real woman's perspective. Which might be something about being expected to be a specific type of rider just because you're female. Or even something about the vast range of riders you'll find here on TE, representing every end of every spectrum.

On the one hand, I get it, and I think this is a great idea.
On the other hand... just what I remember from the last week on this forum
"more attention being paid to women' issues"
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=47002
"how do I make my bike more girly"
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=46940
"empowering women to ride"
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=46964

not to mention the threads about cloth pads and things I wouldn't expect they'd want you to blog about...
I know, on TE we are a community to discuss women's issues and no one is telling us to - but I can see why a bike club might want a women's perspective writer helping them out - just based on the three threads above. I take this repeated "request" as a positive step to help women in your community get into biking, not as condescending, although it's probably both.

[ny biker]

I've been asked to contribute to our local cycling clubs blog. Which is nice and I don't mind doing it. However, they keep emphasizing that they want me to write from a "woman's perspective." Make sure you're writing from a woman's perpective. Don't forget to mention it's from a woman's perseptive . . . we really need a woman's perspective . . . :eek:

Isn't the fact that a woman is writing it enough of a female influence? Sheesh!?! What do they want me to do: write about the spokes in my menstrual cycle?

I don't know why this is bothering me so much. Perhaps it's that time of the month for me.

:cool:

I would ask them what they mean by "women's perspective." Maybe their answer will indicate their intentions are good, and it's just their phrasing that is unfortunate. Or it will let you know that they're actually being jerks.

[indysteel]

My guess is that their interest in her "women's perspective" is sincere and well-intentioned, and in the end, I would be inclined to simply take it at face value and leave it at that. Write the blog entries and let them speak for themselves. Of course, if the club ends up pressing her further for more of a women's perspective, then that would provide an opportunity to clarify what, exactly, they mean by that.

If it were in a different setting--at work, for instance--I'd be more inclined to proactively discuss why such a request could be viewed as offensive, annoying, limiting, etc.

[shootingstar]

Is the club looking for a variety of different content on their blog or they want to boost membership by also attracting more women cyclists?

Great idea to start off with cliches about women cyclists and simply move on to issues that interest them would also interest men....training, touring, nutrition, cycling with kids.


Write as a blog writer who just happens to be female but perhaps..write in a different style than some of the other blog writers..more pragmatic, to the point but accommodating a wide range of cycling experiences/levels. Unless you wish to write to help those who want to enter into competitive/racing side.

By the way: I know I write less on pure technical aspects of cycling infrastructure (which is boring to me as a subject to write), vs. the psychosocial aspects of cycling in http://thirdwavecyclingblog.wordpress.com I have told dearie that I bring traffic to his blog, a broader set of readers than just technical folks.

Look at your club's blog and see how you can pull in other types of wannabe cyclists as well as folks who don't wnat to read just about techniques and racing.

[ny biker]

On the one hand, I get it, and I think this is a great idea.
On the other hand... just what I remember from the last week on this forum
"more attention being paid to women' issues"
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=47002
"how do I make my bike more girly"
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=46940
"empowering women to ride"
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=46964

not to mention the threads about cloth pads and things I wouldn't expect they'd want you to blog about...
I know, on TE we are a community to discuss women's issues and no one is telling us to - but I can see why a bike club might want a women's perspective writer helping them out - just based on the three threads above. I take this repeated "request" as a positive step to help women in your community get into biking, not as condescending, although it's probably both.


Two other issues I can think of -- a local cycling advocacy organization has recently started an effort to get more women cycling, and one problem that was mentioned was women feeling like they're not taken seriously at bike shops. If you have had that experience, it could be worth talking about.

Another issue is safety. Recently a local news blog posted an item about a flasher on one of our rail-trails. We periodically have problems here with flashers and gropers on the trails, and a few years back a woman was beaten while out jogging on a trail, and it would have been worse if her screams had not scared the guy away. The comments on the news blog about this latest incident were appalling -- men who are otherwise reasonable and compassionate people (based on their comments on other topics) were joking about it, and when a female commenter called them out on the inappropriateness of their comments, their response was "oh, come on," like she was just being too sensitive. It was pretty obvious that these guys have no idea about the safety issues we have to consider every day.

[limewave]

I'm in the middle of a big project right now --blech. But skimming through here I see some good stuff. I'm looking forward to reading everyone's points tonight!

I almost exclusively mountain bike anymore. That and I do a lot of riding with the kids. I'll be writing mostly about those topics as well as cycling in general. My blogs name is 29ers and Tagalongs (http://wmcoastriders.org/category/29ers-and-tagalongs/) :)

By the way, I have my other blog (see my signature). If anyone wants me to link to their cycling-related blog in my blog roll, let me know.

[grey]

Hey, I have an idea. You could start off writing something chock full of the cliches about female riders, stop, point out that it's nonsense, and switch over to the real woman's perspective. Which might be something about being expected to be a specific type of rider just because you're female. Or even something about the vast range of riders you'll find here on TE, representing every end of every spectrum.

I like that idea! Women riders vary as much as men do. We might have a few specific needs different from men like saddles and - in general - a shorter reach... but beyond that we aren't that different!

[limewave]

I love TE, you all have given me some good ideas to write about and I really appreciate it.

Also, I want to say that I do regret my first post on this thread, being it was sardonic and a bit extreme. Especially since I know the intention was to be "inclusive" of women and encouraging to all cyclists. That was lousy of me to write what I did and I do feel bad about it.

[indysteel]

I love TE, you all have given me some good ideas to write about and I really appreciate it.

Also, I want to say that I do regret my first post on this thread, being it was sardonic and a bit extreme. Especially since I know the intention was to be "inclusive" of women and encouraging to all cyclists. That was lousy of me to write what I did and I do feel bad about it.

Honestly, I don't think you should feel bad. I understood where you were coming from even if, ultimately, you were able to see their request from a different perspective. And this might be a point on which you can help educate the club and your readers, i.e., how best to frame and approach gender issues in cycling. A few years ago, there was a really polarizing thread on roadbikereview's forums about the idea behind women-only rides. The differing perspectives--from women--were really interesting. Both women and men are wise to recognize that there are radical differences of perspective even among women. So, I think that's a point to keep in mind as you write your blog.

[PamNY]

I didn't see anything wrong with your first post. I think your initial reaction was healthy and admirable.

I never knew I was a second-class citizen in the cycling world until I started reading this forum. Granted, I don't cycle with groups, so there's a lot I don't know.

[Antaresia]

I never knew I was a second-class citizen in the cycling world until I started reading this forum. Granted, I don't cycle with groups, so there's a lot I don't know.

it isn't just limited to the cycling world, it's everything. Just the other day I was looking at the hairy legs on the biker dude in front of me, and wistfully wondered what it would be like to live in a world where I wasn't expected to shave my legs & be pretty every day. I just get so tired of it sometimes, you know? What it would be like to get up, and just not give a ****, not wear make up or shave or do my hair and still be taken as seriously. Sigh.
(I do have a few friends who don't shave, and I've heard comments about them behind their backs and the comments they tell me people say to their face. Ugh, I am not that brave)

We are all very different. You can write from a woman's perspective, because you are one. But you can't write for all women, I wonder if that's what they expect? If I was feeling trollish, I'd just write a normal article as myself, and send it in a pink font.

[channlluv]

Limewave, I thought your first post was funny. The spokes in your menstrual cycle? Ha!

I posted recently about a race motorescort rider who had gotten off his motorcycle to direct an oncoming women's peleton of about a dozen riders around a male rider from the other ongoing race who had crashed. He was talking to another one of the race people - a medical assistant - about how you never see the women riders force each other into the barriers, and that "Men want to race against their friends. Women want to race with their friends. It's a totally different dynamic." And true to the form he'd just set out, the women came rolling up at a reduced speed in honor of the fallen rider, all smiles and friendly chatting together through the crash zone.

At the crit in Redlands the next day, one of the men who had narrowly escaped a six-bike pile-up commented on the riders ahead of him that they'd ridden away at top speed, "Contador-style," meaning they'd taken advantage of the crash to breakaway from the field.

In another race, our local announcer was criticizing a men's race (I forget which Cat, but I'm guessing a group of 3's based on his comment) for not organizing and working as teams to breakaway, that it "looks like a Women's 4!" It was an insult.

He's said other stuff, too, like when they combined a women's race group with a men's 45+ because not enough women entered to warrant their own race time, that the men should do whatever they could to pull away from the girls, and that he couldn't believe the girls were hanging with the guys, that the guys must not be trying very hard....yeah, really. He couldn't "tell the men from the women. Ordinarily I'd just look for the ponytails, but there's a guy out there with a ponytail (my husband) and he's right in the middle of the pack..." and so were the women riders. They were basically kicking a$$. (The winner of that race was Thurlow Rogers, former Olympic champion.)

And yet, in DH's bike club, we have two women's state champions (Juniors Cyclocross and I think Women's Time Trial for whatever age group includes older women - she's in her 60s; and the Junior Women's National Road Race and Track champion). We had at least one other women's state top ten finisher, but she recently defected along with the rest of the elite racing team to a club with better sponsors.

So, yeah, the women's perspective...

What are the stereotypes about women riders?

Roxy

[lph]

If I was feeling trollish, I'd just write a normal article as myself, and send it in a pink font.

Bwaaa-haaa-haaa :D

Re stereotypes about women, riders or not. I live in one of the countries lucky enough to be furthest on the road to full equality between the sexes. Still, I would like to be able to be good at wrenching my bike without guys being gobsmacked that I know how to change my own chain. I would like bike shop owners to assume that I know what I'm talking about without my having to wear full lycra, be muddy and assertive and talk about intricate details to "deserve their respect". I would like to tell people how much fun I had that morning chasing other commuters and catching up to them, without them viewing me like this super-aggressive racer who can't possibly ever relax and enjoy the ride. Basically I do things that male riders do all the time, and get a sort of "wow, she's an obsessive nutcase"-reaction from people. Which is sometimes cute, sometimes flattering, but mostly just annoying.

For that matter, I would like to come to work with messy hair or go to the pool without shaving my legs, and not be thought of as being butch or macho or stating some kind of point. Please folks, I'm just lazy every now and then.

Pardon the rant. This is small stuff, I know.

[smilingcat]

Bwaaa-haaa-haaa :D

Re stereotypes about women, riders or not. I live in one of the countries lucky enough to be furthest on the road to full equality between the sexes. Still, I would like to be able to be good at wrenching my bike without guys being gobsmacked that I know how to change my own chain. I would like bike shop owners to assume that I know what I'm talking about without my having to wear full lycra, be muddy and assertive and talk about intricate details to "deserve their respect". I would like to tell people how much fun I had that morning chasing other commuters and catching up to them, without them viewing me like this super-aggressive racer who can't possibly ever relax and enjoy the ride. Basically I do things that male riders do all the time, and get a sort of "wow, she's an obsessive nutcase"-reaction from people. Which is sometimes cute, sometimes flattering, but mostly just annoying.

For that matter, I would like to come to work with messy hair or go to the pool without shaving my legs, and not be thought of as being butch or macho or stating some kind of point. Please folks, I'm just lazy every now and then.

Pardon the rant. This is small stuff, I know.

Just say Thank you very much and smile!! I think some men have lot of appreciation and lust for women who are capable.

We all march to our own drummer. so stop fretting about fitting in. ;)
I've learned that when others are going boing---- boing---- boing---- I'm going bamBAM BAM!!! If they scowl at me then I just return Huh? what's up doc look.

[lph]

Just say Thank you very much and smile!! I think some men have lot of appreciation and lust for women who are capable.

We all march to our own drummer. so stop fretting about fitting in. ;)

Heh, thanks smilingcat. I rarely fret about fitting in. I just do what I do. But every now and then it grates on me how very narrow a squeeze "fitting in" is.

[lph]

16 page advertising supplement in the paper today, from a large sports chain. Bikes, bikes, bikes. Illustrated by one rider shot, on the page with the highest-end bikes, a photo of a muddy, concentrating trail rider, with well-worn clothing, probably competing. It was a woman :)

Not shaking out long blonde hair in front of a pretty view, not holiday riding with her dh, not city riding, not towing kids - just illustrating cycling in general, and performance trail riding in particular.

In a small way, that made me very very happy. :)

[limewave]

16 page advertising supplement in the paper today, from a large sports chain. Bikes, bikes, bikes. Illustrated by one rider shot, on the page with the highest-end bikes, a photo of a muddy, concentrating trail rider, with well-worn clothing, probably competing. It was a woman :)

Not shaking out long blonde hair in front of a pretty view, not holiday riding with her dh, not city riding, not towing kids - just illustrating cycling in general, and performance trail riding in particular.

In a small way, that made me very very happy. :)

That's awesome! I wish I had seen that.

[lph]

That's awesome! I wish I had seen that.

Here ya go :)

(I was a bit wrong, it wasn't on the high-end page, it was on the 29'er page. But it's still the only close-up portrait of any rider, and it's not wsd! Made my day.)

[Becky]

Here ya go :)

(I was a bit wrong, it wasn't on the high-end page, it was on the 29'er page. But it's still the only close-up portrait of any rider, and it's not wsd! Made my day.)

*likes this too*

[limewave]

Ummm, so I just published my first post from a women's persepctive. I'm feeling a bit exposed. . . .
http://wmcoastriders.org/so-you-want-to-be-a-cyclist-part-1/

[OakLeaf]

Very nice! Informative, sympathetic, a little humor. I like. :)

[zoom-zoom]

That's great...honest, practical, encouraging.

[lph]

Very nice indeed, limewave! You sound like the friend every woman should have when she wants to take up cycling.

[Melalvai]

That's great, I like it! Good job.

[limewave]

Thanks Everyone! I have to give credit to everyone on TE because I would have very little knowledge without the wealth of information shared here.

[marni]

way to go limewave! excellent article and a great beginning.

marni