More attention being given to saddles issues for women

[zoom-zoom]

NYT article (http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/can-bicycling-affect-a-womans-sexual-health/).

[Owlie]

NYT article (http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/can-bicycling-affect-a-womans-sexual-health/).

Well, it's about time.

Funny this should come up. I tried explaining to my boyfriend why I was considering buying a new saddle last week. It came down to "Well, of course it's going to cause damage! It's just that no one's looked into it for women because there isn't as obvious a sign that things aren't right...and men get very concerned when their parts don't work!"

[zoom-zoom]

Exactly. Because the disfunction of our parts isn't a visible thing it's easy to assume that disfunction doesn't exist. I'm starting to conclude that I simply cannot ride in as aggressive a position as the rest of me would like. I end up rolled too far forward onto sensitive tissues. Some saddles are better than others, but they all cause noticeable discomfort, primarily in the form of bad chafing. I don't have this issue with my cyclocross bike, which is a bit less aggressive than my road bike. It stinks, because the rest of me is perfectly happy riding in a relatively aero position (no neck, back, shoulder, hand pain), but the labial/clitoral irritation is becoming a total deal breaker.

I'd try a noseless saddle, but I know that I use my thighs a lot to stabilize and steer my bike.

[Antaresia]

I biked more than I ever have before on a 50km ride today (30 or so miles)

B17s on a cx frame, there was some irritation going on at the end that makes me question whether I'll ever be able to do the 100km.

question: how long does a ride need to be before you decide to put on the padded cycle shorts? I never thought I'd need a pair.

[lph]

question: how long does a ride need to be before you decide to put on the padded cycle shorts?

1 km :)

I used to ride without, but once I started riding regularly and for longer distances, I started having chafing problems. Tried padded shorts and never looked back. I now have six, and will only skip putting them on for a very short errand. Some people do ride without padded shorts in comfort, but the majority do wear them. If you're having any discomfort at all I'd say buy a pair as fast as you can, before you get any skin trouble that takes longer to heal.

[Catrin]

...
question: how long does a ride need to be before you decide to put on the padded cycle shorts? I never thought I'd need a pair.

1 mile :) Ok, I copied LPH but the point is I do not ride without bike shorts. Period. Do I HAVE to, probably not for shorter rides but the fact of the matter is when I need them, I need them. One doesn't have to wear lycra if you don't want to, there are separate liners you can buy to put under other shorts. I really like the liner for my Terry mtb shorts, and Terry also has a short ("Freedom"?) that doesn't fit like lycra but is an integrated short.

I do like the PI Cargo shorts - but HATE, HATE, HATE the 3D MTB chamois of the liner. Love the regular PI 3D chamois but the MTB version is just much too thin for me, or something.

[hebe]

I wear something padded on all rides other than very short errands on my comfort bike. You can also get padded "liners" that just go under your normal clothes for short rides. I'd go for proper padded shorts or tights for longer rides though, with a skirt or dress over if I was feeling a bit exposed.

Congrats on the ride!

[OakLeaf]

Because the disfunction of our parts isn't a visible thing it's easy to assume that disfunction doesn't exist.

Visible to whom?? I guarantee when my parts were chafed literally as raw as hamburger pretty much all the time, it was plenty visible to anyone to whom it mattered, and none of it ever matters to anyone as much as it matters to the person who's getting saddle damage.

Owlie has it right. There's a large segment of the population - mostly male but sadly some female - to whom it just doesn't matter when women are in pain. Sadly, even serious life-threatening pain, as our politics is showing. :( Bike saddle pain isn't even on their radar.


how long does a ride need to be before you decide to put on the padded cycle shorts?

However long it needs to be for you. :) That question is no different from "what's the best saddle?"

In the more aero position on my roadie, I don't ride in anything but cycling shorts (except say a block or two test ride after doing some maintenance). In the more upright position on my hybrid, now that I've got a saddle that works for me (which was an old take-off, a saddle that didn't work so well for me on the road bike), I've been over 20 miles in jeans with a normal jeans waistband and a big stonkin' crotch seam, with no trouble at all. There are one or two women here on TE - granted a very small minority - who never wear cycling shorts at all. It's whatever works or doesn't work for your particular combination of anatomy, geometry and saddle.



Anyway, the article's answer to the whole issue is "get out of aero position and, if you need to, get a noseless saddle so you're way upright AND can't steer or balance properly either." :rolleyes: Nothing suggesting that something in such direct contact with the human body might need to, like, actually, fit. :mad: It's completely typical of the NYT fitness reporters to identify a real problem and then tack on a conclusion that says, basically, don't exercise.

[zoom-zoom]

Visible to whom?? I guarantee when my parts were chafed literally as raw as hamburger pretty much all the time, it was plenty visible to anyone to whom it mattered, and none of it ever matters to anyone as much as it matters to the person who's getting saddle damage.

That's not quite what I meant. The issue guys are having is ED...since any sexual disfunction issues we have from time on a poorly fit saddle or bike isn't outwardly visible (talking nerve damage, not chafing), it's easy for some to assume that there's no trouble. If a guy can't get it up it's made up to be the end of the world... :rolleyes:

And, yes, it definitely parallels what's happening re: barriers to women being able to get contraceptives to combat reproductive pain issues. Heaven forbid the boys can't get their ED meds covered... :mad:

[Owlie]

Zoom, that was pretty much what I meant. Well, there's nothing obviously wrong, so there's nothing wrong!


didn't[/I] work so well for me on the road bike), I've been over 20 miles in jeans with a normal jeans waistband and a big stonkin' crotch seam, with no trouble at all. There are one or two women here on TE - granted a very small minority - who never wear cycling shorts at all. It's whatever works or doesn't work for your particular combination of anatomy, geometry and saddle.

Anyway, the article's answer to the whole issue is "get out of aero position and, if you need to, get a noseless saddle so you're way upright AND can't steer or balance properly either." :rolleyes: Nothing suggesting that something in such direct contact with the human body might need to, like, actually, fit. :mad: It's completely typical of the NYT fitness reporters to identify a real problem and then tack on a conclusion that says, basically, don't exercise.

That's what bugs me about it. "Eh, don't ride your bike. Take up running instead!" Nothing about "There are a ton of saddles available. Try them. It's expensive, but important." I for one could not do a noseless saddle.

[GLC1968]

. It stinks, because the rest of me is perfectly happy riding in a relatively aero position (no neck, back, shoulder, hand pain), but the labial/clitoral irritation is becoming a total deal breaker.

I'd try a noseless saddle, but I know that I use my thighs a lot to stabilize and steer my bike.

I'm here to save you the trouble. As you know, our LB anatomy is very similar. The #1 reason I sold my tri bike? Soft tissue pain. I could NOT find a saddle that would work and frankly, it got to the point that I stopped wanting to try, so I gave up. I did try three noseless saddles and all three of them (two Adamo versions and one Cobb) were too wide in between my legs even though they had no true nose. The rubbing on my leg crease was worse than the soft-tissue pain on my InForm saddle! For whatever reason, I can ride in the drops on my road bike in comfort for MUCH longer than I could ride on the aerobars of my tri bike even though the position is about the same. The need to rotate my hips forward so much on the tri bike due to the geometry, made it just dreadful. I explained my pain and my worry about it to my fitter even before I'd bought the bike but he was convinced that we'd find a saddle that would work and that I shouldn't worry about it.

Don't get me wrong, my fitter was great. And he was understanding. But when every single saddle he had in his shop caused pain, I think he was getting frustrated. I even brought in my own to try and they didn't work either. I picked the InForm for the fitting because it was the most bearable...but who wants to ride that? I started to think that he was beginning to think I was making it up or exaggerating even though he never came out and said it.

Luckily, the InForm turned out to be perfect on my road bike so it was worth the effort to at least have found that!

[Kathi]

I found this website http://www.hab-it.com/ written by a PT who specializes in women's health issues. I was amazed to find out some things I didn't know about the female body, specifically the pelvic floor.

In the blog about Cardio here's what she says about bicycling.

"How about biking? Again, I like this exercise because of the position it puts your body in. A good bike fitting will require you to reach forward to your handle bars which will roll you forward onto your sitting tripod, which is your right sit bone, your left sit bone, and your pubic bone. This is a position that frees your tail bone from pressure and automatically activates your TA because of the forward reach of your arms."

The position she describes sounds like it puts more pressure on sensitive parts but I tried it on my first ten miles of the season and it doesn't at all. Yesterday my sit bones were a little sore but once I got going I felt good. Last year at the beginning of the season I was complaining about my saddle and thought I needed a new one. By the end of the season I couldn't ride without lower back pain. Using this posture I had no pain when I got off the bike. I'm a flat back posture and am still learning the neutral posture but I was able to hold onto it on my short rides.

The other benefit is I'm now using my leg/glute/core muscles instead of my lower back. My average speed went up 2 mph over last year without specific training even though I was just tooling around the neighborhood. Now I'm wondering if I need a change in my bike fit as I don't seem to be centered over the pedals any more.

I don't think this is a ploy to keep women from bicycling but I do think it's a lack of understanding of the way a woman's body works and the need for good posture to support the pelvic floor.

[GLC1968]

Cobb 'use' chart for female cyclists. (http://cobbcycling.com/pdf/Womens_Tri-TT_Seat_Guide.pdf) Hmm. You fit the description of the regular Max, not the Plus. :) This chart is for Time Trials, but the road appears to be the same.

Just FYI, I tried the Max and it was WAY too wide up front. I did not try the Plus and it looks narrower, so maybe that would be an option that might work for you?

I also tried the Adamo Podium and Road - in both cases, the two front rails were too wide apart and hurt in the leg crease something awful. I just noticed that they have a new one called the Prologue that might be worth trying. It looks narrower up front than the ones I tried.

[zoom-zoom]

Yeah, those look too wide through the nose. I know EXACTLY what I need in a saddle, but NO ONE makes it...I need a flat profile (not domed/arched from side-to-side), a longish, narrow nose, t-shaped, with a big, deep dent. The Bontrager InForm Affinity is close, but still not as T-shaped as it could be and the dent could be deeper.

I'm giving up on the regular InForm. I've tried the 140 and 150 and it's just too wedge-shaped. I am incredibly sore in the muscle/crease where my thighs meet my crotch. I end up constantly sliding forward into the big bump on the front of the saddle. On the indoor trainer it worked, but on the road it's a total no-go.

Has anyone tried the SI Max SLR Gel Flow? It looks like this:
http://s.wiggle.co.uk/images/selle-italia-max-slr-saddle-med.jpg?w=350&h=350&a=7

I can't get a good look at the rear profile. One graphic I saw made it look flatter than the Turbomatic, which would maybe make it a good try for me. I liked the Turbomatic Gel Flow, but it was so domed that I felt like I was hung up with the saddle pressing into the area between my sit bones.

[GLC1968]

I totally hear you on the deeper dent, that was the deal breaker on the TT bike. I think I am OK with slightly less t-shape than it sounds like you are, but I do ride out on the nose a little more.

The cut out on that Max SLR Gel Flow looks awesome! If you try it, I'd love to hear what you think of it.

[Trek420]

Did they pay someone to write that article? Would we all wear the same size shoe? The same bra? Why the same saddle?

There are women who ride mens saddles and vice versa, not because they don't know better, because it fits them. We've had this discussion before and will again; hip width has nothing to do with saddle size, width, cut out or lack thereof etc.

Best summary of TE accumulated wit and wisdom and absolutely shames that NYT writer's lack of knowledge here:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=39475

[zoom-zoom]

Yeah, the article was dumb, but I'm glad that Scientists are finally starting to look at the saddle issues women have and not assume that since we're not having ED issues that everything is just hunky dory. There are SO many more options for men. A lot of saddles I'd love to look at only come as wide as a 130 or so, which isn't at all doable.

[Melalvai]

question: how long does a ride need to be before you decide to put on the padded cycle shorts? I never thought I'd need a pair.
I agree that it's individual, but knowing what others' limits are is helpful in making an estimate of what your own limit might be. For me it's an hour. Any ride under an hour I'm fine without bike shorts. On days when I accumulate 10 miles or more in errands, I notice it at the end of the day.

On the other hand I biked for a few years before I even tried on a pair of bike shorts. I biked all the way to Omaha, NE and back (744 miles over 10 days) with regular shorts. If you have a perfect, comfortable saddle, bike shorts aren't as critical. (There was some chaffing, which was getting uncomfortable by the end of that trip.)

Then I discovered bike shorts and never looked back.

[OakLeaf]

Best summary of TE accumulated wit and wisdom and absolutely shames that NYT writer's lack of knowledge here:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=39475

Yup.

Someone seriously needs to link to that in the comments.

Anyone with a less public profile want to volunteer?

[Trek420]

There are SO many more options for men. A lot of saddles I'd love to look at only come as wide as a 130 or so, which isn't at all doable.

It's not the lack of options, it's the lack of info that galls me. There are plenty of wide saddles out there. They are marketed wrong.

Marketing says they are for the casual rider, someone who rides more upright or feels they must to be comfortable, and newbies "Here's a comfy wide saddle for you. Oooh, here's a sheepskin cover for it" ;)

If you're a real, serious rider (which marketing takes to mean road bikes) or want to look like one "Here's a skinny, narrow saddle for you! Oh, you're a woman! You get a cut out."

There, problem solved! :rolleyes:

Nobody is fitting the bike much less fitting the saddles. :mad: It's the fit and the sits bones, stupid. There, I said it. I feel better already.

[Trek420]

ah, the anonymity of the internet. ;) Seems to me one would just set up an anonymous name in the comments section of the article and say "Hey, a whole bunch of amazing women cyclist are saying your article is uhm, less than sufficient, a bit short on substance, lacking in depth .... " ;)

Or write a letter to the editor.

[OakLeaf]

They've changed their commenting system, you can't just change screen names at will. I could set up a whole 'nother account, and maybe I will in the morning, but I've already shut my computer down for the night and I'm not going through all that on my phone. :p

[Owlie]

Yeah, those look too wide through the nose. I know EXACTLY what I need in a saddle, but NO ONE makes it...I need a flat profile (not domed/arched from side-to-side), a longish, narrow nose, t-shaped, with a big, deep dent. The Bontrager InForm Affinity is close, but still not as T-shaped as it could be and the dent could be deeper.

I'm giving up on the regular InForm. I've tried the 140 and 150 and it's just too wedge-shaped. I am incredibly sore in the muscle/crease where my thighs meet my crotch. I end up constantly sliding forward into the big bump on the front of the saddle. On the indoor trainer it worked, but on the road it's a total no-go.

Has anyone tried the SI Max SLR Gel Flow? It looks like this:
http://s.wiggle.co.uk/images/selle-italia-max-slr-saddle-med.jpg?w=350&h=350&a=7

I can't get a good look at the rear profile. One graphic I saw made it look flatter than the Turbomatic, which would maybe make it a good try for me. I liked the Turbomatic Gel Flow, but it was so domed that I felt like I was hung up with the saddle pressing into the area between my sit bones.

Are you me? Seriously, you just described something close to my ideal saddle. Particularly the deep dent/cut out and the t-shape. Go figure--I need something that no one seems to make. I think there's a physical limitation there too, but you're right--men have a lot more saddle options. :(

Trek420, in my case, it's not the width so much as the shape and depth of cutout/indentation. I'm in the 125-130 sit bone width range, so there's still options, it's just they're all the wrong shape (I need a quite T-shaped saddle) and the cutout isn't deep enough for me in a more aggressive position.

[zoom-zoom]

Are you me? Seriously, you just described something close to my ideal saddle. Particularly the deep dent/cut out and the t-shape. Go figure--I need something that no one seems to make. I think there's a physical limitation there too, but you're right--men have a lot more saddle options. :(

Trek420, in my case, it's not the width so much as the shape and depth of cutout/indentation. I'm in the 125-130 sit bone width range, so there's still options, it's just they're all the wrong shape (I need a quite T-shaped saddle) and the cutout isn't deep enough for me in a more aggressive position.

Ditto. There are saddles that are wide enough, but they're often pear/wedge-shaped or they have a sharp-edged cut-out that digs into me or no cut-out at all. The exact saddle I need just flat-out doesn't exist. I need something like the SSM Aspide Glamour, but with a big, deep dent. No one makes anything even remotely close to that.

[OakLeaf]

Owlie, the Turbomatic isn't cheap (although they finally did start making it with steel rails for quite a bit less than the carbon version) - but it really sounds like it would work for you.

That Max SLR Gel Flow has a nice looking cutout, but it's so wedge shaped, I can tell just by looking at it my sitbones would be setting not much behind the exact front to back center of the thing.

[zoom-zoom]

Yeah, I keep looking at it debating whether or not it would be too wedge shaped, but it probably would be. I'm still bummed that the Turbomatic was so domed side-to-side. I really liked that saddle, but it made me feel like I was resting between my sit bones. I seem to need really flat, slab-like saddles.

[Trek420]

They've changed their commenting system, you can't just change screen names at will. I could set up a whole 'nother account, and maybe I will in the morning, but I've already shut my computer down for the night and I'm not going through all that on my phone. :p

And it's been done! Thank you "Saddle Quest" whoever you are ;)

And there goes the "cyber neighborhood" as we get discovered by the readers of the NYT.

Welcome to TE :)

[zoom-zoom]

And it's been done! Thank you "Saddle Quest" whoever you are ;)

And there goes the "cyber neighborhood" as we get discovered by the readers of the NYT.

Welcome to TE :)

We don't bite...much. :D

[bluebug32]

And I just realized that my Ruby saddle needed to be replaced because it was too old. So now the Toupe is on my bike. And the tenderness I was starting to feel has vanished.

You make a great point. I was going crazy last summer looking for a new saddle, when all I needed to do was replace the Toupe I had been using (and loved) for years. The key point is that you cannot love most saddles for years. Many break down and lose their shape faster than you think.

[Kathi]

One thing about this article is that it pays no attention to bike fit.

"The women took their personal bikes and saddles into the lab. The researchers mounted the bikes on a stationary machine, and had the riders position their seats and handlebars according to their preference".

In the days before I had my bikes fit the shop would place my handlebars and saddle where they, or I, thought was comfortable. Handlebars were always placed lower than the saddle because that's the way the guys did it. No matter that tt's were usually too long for me and I have short arms which made matters worse. One mtn bike had the same length stem as my 5'9" SO. I'm barely 5'2".

If you read Knot's post there's a list of fit issues to look at before one determines if the saddle is the issue. None of this was mentioned in the article. Knot doesn't go into detail but mobility of the spine plays into the position that one has on the bike. My solution was to tilt my saddle down but then it caused me to slide forward. Most likely I didn't have the mobility in my spine to tolerate the low handlebar position my unfitted bikes were put in. Even on my very well fitted bike I couldn't ride with the tilt that Knot mentions. Bike position was something that I too totally overlooked back then. My PT says I probably had the flat back (think tail bone pointing down instead of up) position most of my life. Such a position caused me to bend from the waist instead of from the hips.

Most people don't pay attention to body position until they have issues such as the SI joint and low back pain that I have. Bike fitters and PT's often don't recognize it either. Fortunately for me I found a female PT who recognized my flat, stiff back was contributing to my pain, both on and off the bike and helped me restore mobility and my natural curve. The Hab It website is helping me to connect the dots to strengthen core muscles important in my daily and athletic life.

I'm so sorry that this article promotes the myth that cycling is uncomfortable because of the saddle. Body position, bike fit and the correct saddle is the key, not a saddle without a nose. My goodness, someone with too much curve in their lower back could potentially fall right off the bike. :D

[Owlie]

I'm so sorry that this article promotes the myth that cycling is uncomfortable because of the saddle. Body position, bike fit and the correct saddle is the key, not a saddle without a nose. My goodness, someone with too much curve in their lower back could potentially fall right off the bike. :D

Indeed. This comes up at lunch. There are a few women in my department who say "I like riding a bike, but I can't stand those skinny saddles." I try to say "Well, they don't have to be skinny, and it can take a while to find the right one--I'm on saddle #3 right now." However, I think they've just got it in their heads that it's uncomfortable and won't hear anything else.

[zoom-zoom]

I'm so sorry that this article promotes the myth that cycling is uncomfortable because of the saddle. Body position, bike fit and the correct saddle is the key, not a saddle without a nose. My goodness, someone with too much curve in their lower back could potentially fall right off the bike. :D

Ha...I suspect that some of my own "up front" issues could be related to the shape of my back. I have great flexibility and can nearly touch the floor flat-palmed without bending my knees, but am VERY sway-backed (and have a super tilted uterus to boot. I also could never find a menstrual cup to fit, which I also believe is related to my "abnormal" physique). I have the kind of butt that Sir Mix-a-Lot coveted. ;) I sometimes suspect that this angles my female bits in such a way that I have to go for a more upright posture on the bike, even though the rest of me is perfectly comfortable being relatively aero.

[limewave]

Does anyone else get pinched or blocked glands down there from riding? I think that is my biggest issue--not chaffing. Not every ride, but regularly I end up with a cyst (not sure how to describe it). It can be quite painful! And they can get terribly infected if they don't drain properly. I take regular baking soda/epsom salt baths now that help with the healing of them, but they can be really awful! Not sure what kind of saddle would help with that issue.

[zoom-zoom]

LW, do you suppose there's a chamois butter that would help...perhaps something with tea tree oil? That would be awful. I am thankful that I've not had saddle sores of that variety. Owie. :(

I've been reading more about swayback. This site (http://healthmad.com/conditions-and-diseases/muscular-imbalances-a-cause-for-back-pain/) suggests it's often caused by sitting a lot, but it's definitely genetic in my case...my mom, brother, sister, and son all are shaped like that (and I wish my kid sat more...he's so freaking ADHD, heh). My mom and sister and I all have tilted uterus issues and endometriosis, as well. There are a couple of good graphics that make sense of my crotch issues:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2011/09/21/anteriorpelvictilt2_1.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2011/09/21/lordosisversusneutralspine_1.gif

[Kathi]

I'm the opposite, I have a posterior pelvic tilt. I also had endometrious when I was younger. After my PT started working with me on pelvic tilt I searched for information on this but kept coming up with information from men who usually talked about swayback. Recently I found the Hab It website. Not only does the site connect the dots for me on how to find a neutral pelvis it also educated me about how good posture affects female organs as explained in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcTEUKp7zsY&lr=1

Yikes! I had no clue about the ailments women experience from their pelvis. These things were never talked about in my family, and being post menopausal it's extremely important for me to know this.

When I worked I never sat, didn't have a muffin top or any back problems. I thought I was slowing down in retirement (sit to much) and I know my SI joint issues have affected my activity level. Since I've been working on mobility in my spine and better posture I've discovered muscles in my lower body that I probably haven't used in years. I feel I'm moving better and stronger, even though I don't do much weight training, while I'm watching my family and friends lose strength and mobility as they age.

If you search around the site there's information on how to activate muscles important to the spine and pelvis, ie, how to sit, how to protect the organs and prevent the ailments many of the women on the site are suffering from. Sometimes the information is an answer to questions on the blog.

I guess in a way my SI joint issues were a blessing as the things I'm learning because of it will help me to age more gracefully.

[zoom-zoom]

In the little bit I was reading about lordosis I'm really surprised that I've never been prone to lower back stuff (upper back and neck, definitely--mostly the fault of my DH's jerk cat who steals my pillow and pushes my head off to the side. I get neck spasms on a regular basis from that fur-turd).

[Owlie]

LW, do you suppose there's a chamois butter that would help...perhaps something with tea tree oil? That would be awful. I am thankful that I've not had saddle sores of that variety. Owie. :(

I've been reading more about swayback. This site (http://healthmad.com/conditions-and-diseases/muscular-imbalances-a-cause-for-back-pain/) suggests it's often caused by sitting a lot, but it's definitely genetic in my case...my mom, brother, sister, and son all are shaped like that (and I wish my kid sat more...he's so freaking ADHD, heh). My mom and sister and I all have tilted uterus issues and endometriosis, as well. There are a couple of good graphics that make sense of my crotch issues:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2011/09/21/anteriorpelvictilt2_1.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2011/09/21/lordosisversusneutralspine_1.gif

Are you sure you're not me? In my case, I think it's caused by weak back/core muscles. I can consciously return the arch to normal, but I have to work to keep it there, and it's been getting better since I started doing yoga on a semi-regular basis. I wonder if that's part of the reason for my current saddle woes...

[Kathi]

This position helps me a lot when I sit, it takes the stress off my low back.

http://hab-it.com/blog/?p=105

My SI joint issues started when I bent, from my waist not my hips, over to pick up an empty milk jug off the floor. It locked up, I couldn't straighten up. I don't know why I have this problem but some theories I've heard from PT's is that it was from an injury many years ago or it's an inherited condition. My PT also thought with good lower back mobility and neutral spine I can keep it under control.

I hear you about the cat. When I had injuries that I needed to support on a pillow my cat used to steal the pillow. I would wake up in pain and find his little head snuggled in the middle of the pillow. It was an airline type pillow and it was the perfect size for him. I swear he had a smile on his face.

[Wahine]

The article is silly at best. You've all articulated the reasons why. I particularly like that the lady in the photo is not fit well to her bike at all and is riding on the nose of the saddle. :rolleyes::mad:

I really wish I could figure out a way to make a flow chart to help women find the right type of saddle for them. I also wish that I would get paid to design women's saddles and have them actually go to production without being completely altered by the powers that be in the name of marketing.

Thanks to Kathi and Zoom-zoom for some great links on posture. It is a vital component of riding. I frequently get riders in for a bike fitting that turns into a postural training and pedaling efficiency session instead. This is useful information.

[Trek420]

I really wish I could figure out a way to make a flow chart to help women find the right type of saddle for them.

I think you and Knott should make the ap that runs women through a saddle/fit checklist and recommends the right saddle. Then go buy an island to retire on. :cool:

[Wahine]

I think you and Knott should make the ap that runs women through a saddle/fit checklist and recommends the right saddle. Then go buy an island to retire on. :cool:

Wouldn't that be nice. Maybe you should start shopping for an island. We won't have time since we'll be working on the app.

[Trek420]

Wouldn't that be nice. Maybe you should start shopping for an island. We won't have time since we'll be working on the app.

Ok. Will do.

[limewave]

LW, do you suppose there's a chamois butter that would help...perhaps something with tea tree oil? That would be awful. I am thankful that I've not had saddle sores of that variety. Owie. :(

I'll have to try some other varieties. I've always just used bag balm. Now that I'm endurance training and riding for more than 90 minutes, I've found that reapplying additional layers mid-ride helps some.

[zoom-zoom]

Are you sure you're not me? In my case, I think it's caused by weak back/core muscles. I can consciously return the arch to normal, but I have to work to keep it there, and it's been getting better since I started doing yoga on a semi-regular basis. I wonder if that's part of the reason for my current saddle woes...

I can't straighten that area of my back, at all. Not even when I was doing yoga and tons of core work on a regular basis. When I lay on the floor I can't pull my lower back to touch the floor at all, not even with my knees up.

[limewave]

I can't straighten that area of my back, at all. Not even when I was doing yoga and tons of core work on a regular basis. When I lay on the floor I can't pull my lower back to touch the floor at all, not even with my knees up.

I have that issue too! I've been practicing standing against a wall and attempting to slowly arch my lower back against it. I cannot believe how much I have to strain!

[OakLeaf]

I'm the opposite, and honestly I always thought too much sitting (combined with too much gym emphasis on the abs and not enough on the back) caused the lumbar curve to flatten or even reverse. After all, when you're seated normally, the pelvis tilts backwards. My lumbar spine was pretty much rigid and vertical before my PT this summer. I can finally get into cobra with my pubic bone on the ground, yay! but it's going to be a while, if ever, before I can keep my ASIS on the ground.

I think part of it is related to having no waist, and probably pelvic anatomy as well. When my pelvis is as neutral as I can get it, I appear to be in extreme swayback. I don't think I could ever sit in a chair in the "tripod" you describe. I just tried it on a bar stool - so, hard flat surface and knees below hips - and forcing my pelvis as far into anterior tilt as I possibly could (straining as hard with my low back muscles as you seem to have been against the wall), I can still get a finger easily between my pubic bone and the seat.

[Catrin]

I am the opposite, I don't have as much curve in my lumbar spine as is "normal", it is interesting how such seemingly small things can effect us. I did have a tilted uterus when I had one.

[zoom-zoom]

I'm the opposite, and honestly I always thought too much sitting (combined with too much gym emphasis on the abs and not enough on the back) caused the lumbar curve to flatten or even reverse. After all, when you're seated normally, the pelvis tilts backwards. My lumbar spine was pretty much rigid and vertical before my PT this summer. I can finally get into cobra with my pubic bone on the ground, yay! but it's going to be a while, if ever, before I can keep my ASIS on the ground.

I think part of it is related to having no waist, and probably pelvic anatomy as well. When my pelvis is as neutral as I can get it, I appear to be in extreme swayback. I don't think I could ever sit in a chair in the "tripod" you describe. I just tried it on a bar stool - so, hard flat surface and knees below hips - and forcing my pelvis as far into anterior tilt as I possibly could (straining as hard with my low back muscles as you seem to have been against the wall), I can still get a finger easily between my pubic bone and the seat.

Hmm...and I definitely have a very well-defined waist. I can't wear jerseys with elastic bottoms or compression shirts, since the bottoms always ride-up to my waist and leave my lower belly hangin' out.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/73488_1647137226147_1468418720_31717725_4464222_n.jpg

I can't imagine sitting upright on a stool and not having my pelvic bone pressing into the seat surface. Wow, a finger's clearance?! :eek: I've never really been prone to sore sit bones on a bike...probably because my weight's not resting on them as much as would be ideal.

[OakLeaf]

I definitely have a very well-defined waist.

My waist is pretty well-defined - clothes definitely ride up into it - but there just isn't that much real estate there. There are two inches between my bottom rib and my ASIS. Not a lot of room for the spine to bend.

[zoom-zoom]

Ahh...gotcha. I have a pretty long torso, from the front...but that weird curvature makes my butt ride pretty high. It's really obvious seeing me in profile. Everything rides up on top of my rump in the back.

[Wahine]

Recently I found the Hab It website. Not only does the site connect the dots for me on how to find a neutral pelvis it also educated me about how good posture affects female organs as explained in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcTEUKp7zsY&lr=1


I finally got a chance to watch this video all the way through. It is an excellent summary of posture and neutral pelvis/spine. Thanks again for sharing.

[smittykitty]

Wow! my new PT has been instructing me on EVERYTHING in the Youtube video! She has shown me how to flatten out the curve in my lower back. She asked me why I was sitting off the back of my saddle. She showed me how with correct pelvic tilt, I could sit more forward, with my weight on my sit bones, the pressure automatically was gone from the girlybits because they were no longer pushing on the front of the saddle.

Let's see what else she noticed within 30 sections:

I need to:
Relax upper body, arms, shoulders
Head down, look up with eyes
Use muscles to keep knees aligned over 2, 3rd toes
Heels down
Flat back, Pelvic tilt, pressure off the girlybits
Move forward on saddle
Pedal stroke: front, back, up (no pushing down: right quad pain)
relaxed hands, lightly on hoods,
Did I mention heels down!

On the trainer: put hands behind back, core to hold me up!!


I'm sure there a few more things I forgot. I'm making improvements. Pain in right quad seems to get way better at about mile 10-12.

Really hard yesterday to remember all of this when climbing. But I got up that darn hill. (Had to stop and exchange my lungs for new ones, but I got up it!)
Was able to do a few seconds of "Look Ma Now Hands" (hands barely off the hoods) yesterday.

Finding a female PT who cycles (Tri) has been very helpful. It's incredible where you find you have weaknesses and how they effect function in other parts of the body. Hopefully by strengthening my weak hips and core and improving posture, along with loosening by tight IT band, my leg pain will subside.

I've sure learned a lot about my posture from here.

Oh, and thanks Wahine. You're great advice here, got me to see her.

[Wahine]

Oh, and thanks Wahine. You're great advice here, got me to see her.

You're welcome.:D

[indysteel]

@Smittykitty,

I'm curious about the your PT's instruction to "use muscles to keep knees aligned over 2nd and 3rd toes." Do you, like me, have a tendency to ride kneed in? Did she say, specifically, how to ride with better knee alignment and how to engage your muscles to do that? If I pay really close attention, I can maintain better alignment, but the minute my attention shifts--as it often does--I'm back to bad form. I'd love any insight that you have.....

[smittykitty]

She didn't have any magical advice, just use your leg muscles to hold the leg in line over the 2nd, 3rd toes. Also, both legs should be equal distance from top tube.

I know what you mean, my mental checklist is soooo long! And I've got to say, my knee is pretty low on the list right now.

The BG fitters at the lbs put a shim in the big toe/under ball of foot area under insole of my new road shoes. They were the first to point out that my right knee was flopping around like a fish out of water! I think it has really helped. As the PT pointed out to me, the lbs guys try to stop the flopping, her job is to teach me how to use muscles to fix the problem.

[OakLeaf]

I've been working on foot issues for the past couple of years, and I think it helps everything all the way up the chain when I pay attention to my feet on the bike, too. "Four corners of the feet" is my yoga teacher's cue, and that works inside a cycling shoe now that I finally have a pair that fits.

Big toe mound, small toe mound (i.e. heads of 1st and 5th MTs), inner and outer heel. Lift all three arches to get the four corners down - in my case, the transverse arch is the weakest, but probably focus on whichever's weakest for you.



This thread has drifted ... imagine that. :D

+1 on thanks Wahine.

[zoom-zoom]

Ha, I'm another one who pedals pointy-toed and my knees dive a little. I try to focus on pedaling more flat-footed, but as soon as I stop thinking about it my toes dip down, again. :p