Sugoi RS short

[indysteel]

Has anybody purchased the most recent model of Sugoi's RS short and, if so, how does it compare to previous models. I started wearing the RS in 2007 or so at Susan's recommendation. This is when the chamois was grey and black. A year or two later, the chamois changed a bit and was now green. I continued to love the short though. Last year, I bought a new pair of the RS's and while the short mostly looked the same, it was nowhere near as comfortable. It also seemed like the fit changed a bit, too. Or maybe it was just me. I just didn't love the short as much. My husband also wears the RS and he had trouble fitting into last year's medium because they were cut rather tight. He's 6'2 and 150 pounds, i.e, thin as a rail. So, something seemed off.

Well, I'm on the hunt for a new pair of shorts and am considering the RS despite my problems with last year's model. The chamois has seemingly changed yet again. I'm not sure of the fit.

If anybody has experience with these shorts, I'd appreciate your feedback.

Thanks!

[tulip]

I ordered Sugoi RS shorts last year from TE (green chamois). They are the most comfortable shorts that I have owned. However, they had some serious QC issues, and I sent my first pair back, which TE graciously and without question sent me another pair. Unfortunately, the second pair had the same issue (hole formed where chamois is stitched to shorts right in front). I ended up not being able to send them back because I was traveling, so I had to keep them. I use them only under tights or a skirt wrap since they are really not fit to wear in public uncovered. And no, they cannot be mended.

I later purchased Sugoi Evolution shorts and I have found them to be mostly great and very comfortable. There is one issue with the elastic on one of the grippers coming loose, but so far it's manageable. The Evolution is the model below the RS; the Evolution is much more affordable.

I have always been a Pearl Izumi gal, but the fit and comfort of the Sugoi RS and Evolution would definitely turn me into a Sugoi gal except for the QC issues. I will probably try Evolution again, but if the QC issues persist, I'll go back to PI. My PIs have lasted me for years.

[Owlie]

I ordered Sugoi RS shorts last year from TE (green chamois). They are the most comfortable shorts that I have owned. However, they had some serious QC issues, and I sent my first pair back, which TE graciously and without question sent me another pair. Unfortunately, the second pair had the same issue (hole formed where chamois is stitched to shorts right in front). I ended up not being able to send them back because I was traveling, so I had to keep them. I use them only under tights or a skirt wrap since they are really not fit to wear in public uncovered. And no, they cannot be mended.

I later purchased Sugoi Evolution shorts and I have found them to be mostly great and very comfortable. There is one issue with the elastic on one of the grippers coming loose, but so far it's manageable. The Evolution is the model below the RS; the Evolution is much more affordable.

I have always been a Pearl Izumi gal, but the fit and comfort of the Sugoi RS and Evolution would definitely turn me into a Sugoi gal except for the QC issues. I will probably try Evolution again, but if the QC issues persist, I'll go back to PI. My PIs have lasted me for years.

I think there was a thread on here last year (or maybe 2 years ago) about Sugoi's quality control issues. I have Evolution shorts (red chamois) and love them, but have been leery about purchasing another pair (or a pair of the RS as a comparison) because of the chamois (haven't had a chance to see it in person) and because of the QC issues.

[Susan Otcenas]

indysteel,

This thread prompted me to try on a pair of the new 2012 RS Shorts. Chamois seems to be about the same size and shape as last year's version. I've not ridden on it yet, but it seemed well placed in the short.

After trying it on, I have three "loves" and one "caution" to mention.

LOVES:

1) Oh my oh my, I looooove the size of the leg hole openings. Personally, I've mostly gone away from "constructed" leg hole openings with traditional or silicone grippers because I have big quads. I could be 100 pounds and I would still have me some big legs! ;) So, I've come to prefer shorts with either unconstructed leg hole openings (a la the Louis Garneau Neo Power shorts, one of my current faves) or shorts that have leg hole openings appropriately sized for quads like mine (a la the Pearl Izumi PRO Elite shorts). Sooooo, I was pleasantly surprised to try on the new RS and find the leg hole openings to be perfect. They were built for legs like mine! Women with long, lean legs (I always think of those as "runner's legs" :) ) might find them a little loose. (I should note that traditionally Sugoi's shorts tended to have generous leg hole openings. We used to recommend them to folks for that reason all the time. In 2010-2011, the leg hole openings seemed to get smaller, especially on the top end RSE product. 2012 RSE is still small, but the 2012 RS reminds me of the way they used to be.)

2) A big change for 2012 is the unconstructed waistband. NO elastic at the waist. Soooo comfy. Yet, the waist is well shaped and sculpted, so it doesn't feel like it wants to fall down. I'm a big fan of waists like this, especially for longer rides (centuries, brevets, etc) where a bit of bloating or intestinal distress might make one feel like the waist is digging or cutting into the gut. Plus, no muffin-top! :)

3) I continue to love the fabric this short is made with. It's such a wonderful warm/hot weather fabric. Light and airy.

OK, so now my caution....

My one area of concern is the stitch line that encircles the shorts at the bottom of the waistband. See it here: http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodSU_38384F.html The stitch that Sugoi used does not have a lot of give/stretch. So, when I put them on, the stitch line pulled taut and I had to sort of shimmy them over my hips. My concern here has 2 components. a) I'm afraid that someone trying them on might think they were too small because of that snug stitch. Once they are on, and the stitch is up at your waist, the fit is perfect, with no restriction or tension at that stitch line, as your waist is so much smaller than your hip circumference. b) I'm concerned about the durability/structural integrity of that stitch line. If the shorts get yanked on, there's some potential, I think, to pop some stitches there. Over time, it might cause that seam to fail.

That said, I would still encourage you to give the new 2012 version a try. We will OF COURSE warranty them should my concerns about that stitch line be realized, or if they should fail for any other reason. There are enough things that I *love* about the new short that I would hate to see you shy away from it without giving it a chance.

Tulip -

I am SO sorry to hear that you've been "stuck" with a pair of shorts that are not presentable in public. Yikes! I don't know what the circumstances were that caused you to be unsure of whether or not you could return the shorts, but just based on what you've written, it sounds like a defect that should qualify for a warranty. It's up to you, but if you feel like you've not really gotten the life out of these shorts that you would have expected, I would encourage you to call in to our customer service department and ask to speak to Anna. She can arrange a return authorization for those shorts and issue you a store credit that you could use towards a new pair, be that a new RS, a pair of Evolutions or whatever else you think might suit your needs. I'm forwarding her a link to this thread so that if you do call in, she won't be caught unaware. It would be good to mention it in the conversation with her, so that she'll know what's going on.

Owlie -

You mention that your Evolution short has the red chamois it in. That means your shorts are, gosh, at least 3-4 years old. Kudos to you for taking such good care of your shorts! In the intervening years, there have been *numerous* changes to the Evolution short. Chamois, fabric and fit have all changed over those years, so you might not even consider it the same short!

The 2012 version has the same fabric and chamois as the 2011 version. But there are some differences. The most noticeable change is the waistband. The 2012 has an unconstructed "criss-cross" yoga-style waistband. Here's a close-up shot of the front of that band: http://images.teamestrogen.com/ri/650/650/2012_Spring/SU-38288F-BLK_detail2.jpg It's very comfortable and that style of waistband has proven very popular with customers. *However*, it also means that the drawcord waist found in earlier version of this short has been eliminated. If you are someone that likes drawcord shorts because shorts tend to slide down on you, then the 2012 version of the Evolution might not be your cup of tea.

Ladies, I hope this information is helpful. I'm going to forward a link to this thread to our customer service staff so that they know what the conversation has been, particularly regarding some of the QC issues you've discussed. As always, I really appreciate that you've taken the time to express the problems that you've had. I want you to know that TE *and* Sugoi are paying attention. I had dinner with folks at Sugoi last night, and this thread came up in conversation. Sugoi is very aware that there's been QC issues over the past couple of years. While all of the kinks may not have been worked out yet, they really are committed to fixing the issues AND making sure that they keep you satisfied along the way. So please, let us know what you think of the new 2012s!

Susan

[indysteel]

Susan, honest to goodness, you provide the best customer service I've ever received. I bet I'm not alone in thinking that. Thank you so much for your thorough review of the latest RS. You've put some of my concerns about their most recent offerings to rest. Granted, I've gained some tummy fat since I first started wearing them, but they just didn't fit as well, even when I sized up. Even my skinny husband was finding the men's version to be absurdly tight.

[tulip]

susan, honest to goodness, you provide the best customer service i've ever received. I bet i'm not alone in thinking that.

+100!

[Artista]

Susan, honest to goodness, you provide the best customer service I've ever received.
I agree! Shopping at TE feels a lot like shopping at a local boutique - a huge accomplishment for an internet based business. Because of your personal appearances on this forum and the great service that I receive from your staff, I don't feel like the money I spend at TE is getting lost in cyberspace. I get great products and service while knowing that my purchases are benefiting real people.

[Owlie]

Susan, honest to goodness, you provide the best customer service I've ever received. I bet I'm not alone in thinking that.

This. This sooo much.

I don't want to threadjack, but I'm not sure it merits its own thread:

Susan, thank you for your description of the new Evolution shorts. I really love mine (thank you, zoom-zoom, for the second pair!). Drawstrings I can take or leave, though I think most of my shorts have them. My concerns are primarily the chamois (is it a lot denser? The Vizio.1 shorts from Castelli has a pretty evil chamois), the fabric and the leg openings. I do have "runner's legs"--it took most of the season for me to put much muscle bulk on my thighs. Most shorts are a little loose on me.
Anyone got feedback?

[indysteel]

Susan, if you're still following this thread, how do the RS shorts compare to the Evolutions? I love the RS and plan to order the 2012 model from you, but it's arguably overkill for a lot of the short rides that I do. I do like the compression that the RS short provides though. It wears like a second skin.

Also, I want to thank you for sharing our thoughts with Sugoi. I missed that in my first read of your prior post. How great for us that you have the ear of the manufacturers you carry.

[polaris]

I've been a long-time RS wearer, mostly because of the sizing/fit. The Small has always been a perfect fit, unlike almost every other short I've tried on - if they fit my hips, the waist was too small and it was a real struggle to pull them over my hips. I'm 125#, 5.5 with 36/37-inch hips & 28-in waist.

Tried on a 2012 RS model and could barely pull it on! The sizing definitely has changed. Plus there's been another price jump, despite the fact that these shorts are made in Canada. I was rather discouraged at the prospect of a major hit to my wallet and decided to try on the Evolution. I love everything about this short from the waistband fit to the fabric and it's $55 less than the RS! I don't see any noticeable difference other than the fabric's slightly denser than the RS. Also can't notice any difference in the chamois.

I was considering of a pair of LG Neo Powers (?) but the legs are too short on me - they're only available in 7" - so very unflattering on my 74-yr old legs. They do look great on the younger women I ride with.

[indysteel]

I've been a long-time RS wearer, mostly because of the sizing/fit. The Small has always been a perfect fit, unlike almost every other short I've tried on - if they fit my hips, the waist was too small and it was a real struggle to pull them over my hips. I'm 125#, 5.5 with 36/37-inch hips & 28-in waist.

Tried on a 2012 RS model and could barely pull it on! The sizing definitely has changed. Plus there's been another price jump, despite the fact that these shorts are made in Canada. I was rather discouraged at the prospect of a major hit to my wallet and decided to try on the Evolution. I love everything about this short from the waistband fit to the fabric and it's $55 less than the RS! I don't see any noticeable difference other than the fabric's slightly denser than the RS. Also can't notice any difference in the chamois.

I was considering of a pair of LG Neo Powers (?) but the legs are too short on me - they're only available in 7" - so very unflattering on my 74-yr old legs. They do look great on the younger women I ride with.

I've made the same switch and now have two pairs of the Evolution. I don't like the chamois quite as well as the old RS, but the fit through the rest of the short is so much more comfortable and, for a bike short, flattering. Plus, they're far cheaper than the RS. Like you, I've found the fit on the RS short for the last couple of years to be far different--and not to my liking--than it used to be.

[Susan Otcenas]

I was considering of a pair of LG Neo Powers (?) but the legs are too short on me - they're only available in 7" - so very unflattering on my 74-yr old legs. They do look great on the younger women I ride with.

They are also available in a 10 inch version.

http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodLG_1050369.html