Cost of gasoline, worldwide- Good thing we bike

[shootingstar]

This is from a woman's blog posted today. She lived in Saudi Arabia for many years since she was married to a Saudi. So she does occasionally talk about an economy so closely tied to oil. Then she returned to the U.S.
http://americanbedu.com/2012/03/04/saudi-arabiaeritreanorwayworld-cost-of-gasoline/


"In case you were wondering, when compared to other countries around the world, a gallon of gas in the United States could be considered reasonable. I am near Charlotte, North Carolina and tend to pay about US$3.80 per gallon. That cost is outrageous to me but after seeing the following statistics I guess I’m glad I’m in the USA and not Norway!"

Most Expensive Gas in the World: Asmara, Eritrea
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $9.58
Cost per gallon of premium gas: (Unavailable)

2nd Most Expensive: Oslo, Norway
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $9.33
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $9.69

3rd Most Expensive: Rome
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $8.51
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $8.71

4th Most Expensive: Copenhagen, Denmark
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $8.48
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $8.77

5th Most Expensive: Monte Carlo, Monaco
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $8.46
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $8.55

6th Most Expensive: London
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $8.12
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $8.35

7th Most Expensive: Paris
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $8.06
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $8.56

8th Most Expensive: Hong Kong
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $7.85
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $8.30

9th Most Expensive: Berlin
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $7.76
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $8.34

10th Most Expensive: Tokyo
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $6.59
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $7.15

[Blueberry]

It's funny - for most of my professional life, I've had a long commute with no good transportation alternatives. I've been very in tune with gas prices for that reason.

Recently, I work from home mostly. I try to run errands by bike (but that has fallen by the wayside with the house selling stress of the last month, sadly). I drive a much more fuel efficient car. Even though I'm not biking, I'm still going ~3 weeks or so on a tank. I had hardly noticed prices were increasing until the news made a big deal of it, and my family called it to my attention.

I do hope people will look for alternatives. And that alternatives will be available. But, I worry that we're so far behind in infrastructure for alternative transportation (mass transit, bike, walk) that people will be forced to sacrifice healthy food for fuel.

[zoom-zoom]

I saw this yesterday and laughed:
http://edsteinink.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Stei120224.gif

10+ years ago people actually teased us for choosing to drive small, efficient, FWD, manual transmission cars when 4WD/AWD SUVs were all the rage and we had a small child. NO ONE pokes fun, anymore. In fact, I've gotten a lot of queries and compliments towards my Mazda 3 hatchback, though it's not nearly as efficient as I would like (newer ones are rated for better mileage). I notice the cars in line to pick up kids at my son's school are getting smaller, too. People have finally figured out that they don't need a vehicle that seats 7 when they only have 1-2 kids.

[Owlie]

Zoom-zoom, that's funny, and sadly true...

Even though my commute is short, I live in a town with limited transportation options--no public transport to speak of, and it's not safe to bike or walk in my estimation, especially since I'm coming home around 8pm! (Since the way home is county land, no one's bothered to put in sidewalks, even though the town I live in does actually have them. I do not understand Ohio.) I drive a relatively fuel-efficient vehicle, though it is 12 years old. A tank of gas lasts me 3-4 weeks unless I'm driving to Cincinnati. I suppose I should take the bike rack off and get those fuel lines sorted out. That would help a ton too.

[Koronin]

The type of work I do I have to drive and a for me a tank of gas lasts anywhere from 1 week to 3 weeks depending on how much out of town work I have to do. The sad part is only one of the companies I work for gives any kind of gas money. So I have cut down of the work I do out of town. We did recently purchase a more fuel efficient car for me for work, but the bigger reason was it's also a more useful work car. My new work car is a used Nissan Versa. My other car (yes kept it) is a Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS. My husband drives a Ford Ranger that he gets just over a week out of a tank of gas. We live way too far for him to even attempt to bike to work and there's really no public transportation at all. Although he is considering if they allow it to park near a bike trail on base and bike the rest of the way to work and then after work bike back to the truck as that would cut down on some of the driving distance although it won't cut down on sitting in traffic trying to get off base. Once he's off base it's not a bad drive home.

[Jolt]

So glad I can walk to work and a lot of my everyday errands...

[lph]

It's not quite fair to compare without adjusting for cost of living, but still - I think prices here should be even higher. A very unpopular view outside of the cities, but still.

[shootingstar]

It's not quite fair to compare without adjusting for cost of living, but still - I think prices here should be even higher. A very unpopular view outside of the cities, but still.

Interesting lph.
But I suspect in Eritera, things /economy are so out of whack because whatever else is going on there, along with corruptness that causes an unstable economy.

I sincerely don't know the gas prices in my province off the top of my head. I'm not sure if our province is much different than other Canadian provinces. I just don't look at gas station signage. We don't have a car.

[zoom-zoom]

It's not quite fair to compare without adjusting for cost of living, but still - I think prices here should be even higher. A very unpopular view outside of the cities, but still.

Nope, I'm with you. DH and I don't say it out-loud very often, but we're sorta happy when gas prices go up...and that's even with DH's 30 minute commute each way. The only negative to the prices going up is the # of people who are struggling financially and HAVE to drive and may not have the means to change their driving habits and remain employed. Because we don't have viable public transportation options in a lot of areas it really can make things difficult for many. That part I don't like.

But when the well-heeled whine that putting gas in their Hummer or power boat is becoming a strain I want to smack them.

[lph]

Thanks, zoom-zoom. Just for the record, I was just speaking for Norway ("here"), because I know Norwegian society better. I know, I'm lucky to live in a city that has good public transport, and where I can bike to work. Many people outside of the bigger towns don't have this, and high gas prices will affect them unfairly much. But no way are people going to kick up a fuss and demand better bus routes if the easiest and cheapest way to travel always and forever is by car.

[zoom-zoom]

Thanks, zoom-zoom. Just for the record, I was just speaking for Norway ("here"), because I know Norwegian society better. I know, I'm lucky to live in a city that has good public transport, and where I can bike to work. Many people outside of the bigger towns don't have this, and high gas prices will affect them unfairly much. But no way are people going to kick up a fuss and demand better bus routes if the easiest and cheapest way to travel always and forever is by car.

Yep, that's my feeling, too. Though when our prices go up it doesn't mean that the added money is going into infrastructure, unfortunately...it usually means that some execs pockets are getting lined. :rolleyes:

[shootingstar]

Unless part of the gas price, is a tax that goes specifically for transit infrastructure development, etc.

Now, if a municipality had a supported plan in writing etc., would alot of drivers truly protest that one vs. lining the pockets of oil execs.?

[Blueberry]

Unless part of the gas price, is a tax that goes specifically for transit infrastructure development, etc.

It's supposed to. But our local and state governments are in budget trouble. That means that money goes from where it should to pay for other things that it wasn't designated for.

[shootingstar]

It's supposed to. But our local and state governments are in budget trouble. That means that money goes from where it should to pay for other things that it wasn't designated for.

Yea, that eternal problem.

The interesting thing in our area...is that now when city council debates, it isn't about whether or not we should have bike lanes, it's where and what type. A good thing and very different from 5 yrs. ago.

But still the same *****in' and complaining about lack of roads, which is not the case when a commute drive is only 45 min. from the furtherest edge of city into downtown core/vice versa. It's 60 min. for Vancouver and Toronto.

And Calgary is getting expanded light rapid transit rail, this very moment..they're being built right now. This is quite important in the city politics dynamic because we're in Canada's richest oil and energy jurisdiction. So anything to counteract the economic boom here that is due to the oil exploration,etc (which won't last), is good. Spend that money on mass transit..now. We need it because we're the fastest growing city in Canada.

[Blueberry]

Yea, that eternal problem.

The interesting thing in our area...is that now when city council debates, it isn't about whether or not we should have bike lanes, it's where and what type. A good thing and very different from 5 yrs. ago.

But still the same *****in' and complaining about lack of roads, which is not the case when a commute drive is only 45 min. from the furtherest edge of city into downtown core/vice versa. It's 60 min. for Vancouver and Toronto.

And Calgary is getting expanded light rapid transit this very moment..they're being built right now.

*sigh*

We're so far behind you in terms of that debate. Better than we were 10 years ago, but way behind.

[Koronin]

Good luck with hoping for better public transportation. As gas prices went up so did the cost of tickets for the public transportation system in Charlotte. They also have cut both routes and stops for their public transportation due to the higher cost of gas.

[bmccasland]

The price you pay at the pump is more than the cost of crude, refining, and transportation to your local station. It includes a whole variety of taxes - state and local. I know in some countries the price per gallon (or liter) includes hefty taxes to subsidize public transportation.

[Koronin]

It's not just the cost of public transportation, but also the convenient of it. If it's not convenient it's also not worthwhile or just flatly impossible to use. The public transportation system (the buses) in Charlotte started at around 8am and were back in their base by 10pm. Where my husband worked he couldn't have used it if he wanted to. Day shift started at 4:45am and ended at 3:45pm. 2nd shift started at 3:45pm and ended at 2:45am. No way to use the public transportation system. Charlotte did built one light rail line (southern part of the city) which is has been successful. However they want to build two more lines. The 1 will most likely eventually get built, but right now they can't get funding for it. The 2nd line is never going to get built for two reasons that I am aware of. First several towns that it will run through near will not help fund it because the return they will see to them does not give them enough return for their investment. The 2nd is because the freight railroads that use and actually own the tracks have said no you aren't going to use our lines and interfere with our schedules.

[Koronin]

Also in NC they have been stealing from the transportation fund for years to fund other projects at the expense of roads, bridges and other infrastructure that needs to be fixed. Then of course they are great at building roads to only have to go back and fix them in a handful of years because they didn't built them properly in the first place. Or you get roads like Independence Blvd in Charlotte that is nightmare and at this point is totally hopeless to fix. They need other routes for people to take and get traffic off that road, but instead they keep wanting to expand it or who knows what is the latest idea.

[Crankin]

I've gone from filling up my car every 2 weeks and cycling to work 2X a week for part of the year, to driving for my job and having to work hard to get just a weekly fill up. My car gets very average mileage (18 mpg), it's almost 9 years old, and has AWD, which is necessary where I live. I get reimbursed a decent amount for my mileage, which comes to about 200-300 dollars a month.
I try to do minor errands (drugstore, fish market, bakery) by bike for about 8 months out of the year, but major stuff, like grocery shopping, no.
My dilemma is that while frankly, I can afford to absorb the increased gas prices, it is a huge change from my former lifestyle, where first I lived 6.7 miles from work and then about 13.8 miles. While my clients are all around 5-15 miles from my house, my office is about 26 miles, and I have 2 clients near there. I only go to the office 2-3 days a week and I rarely drive my car on the weekends, as we use DH's. My intention is to stay at my job until I am licensed (at least until the end of June 2013, probably longer), but I recently had a talk with the physician at my office, who also works at the clinic 5 miles from my house. He said he could help me get a job there. The only way I could justify leaving my clients would be the "gas prices" argument. And, I would probably have to work a little more in terms of hours. It's a problem for me at this point.

[marni]

when we left the Netherlands in 2004, one Euro was equal to $1.00. Gas at that point was $5.00 or 5 Euros a liter ( 1 gallon =3.87 liter.)

There is a very strong infrastructure of alternate transportation including feet in the Netherlands and always has been. We survived 15 years and three kids with scouting, sports, after school and school activities with 1 car that was used primarily for weekend touristing excursions or if my husband had to drive to the work site in Belgium.

My own little pontiac vibe sits in the driveways several days in a row several times a week. I am very lucky that we live where the only paces I go to on a regular basis are within a 10-12 mile radius, and that the gym is understanding and lets me bring my "bebe" inside and park it next to the reception desk instead of having to leave it chained out in the parking lot of the strip mall where the gym is located.

I cannot see how people like my neighbor (a self employed painting contractor) who have to drive all over , pay for their gas and have to have a larger vehicle for equipment
manage.Nor can I see the city of Houston actually using any of the gasoline taxes for their designated purposes except to build more freeways to empty fields waiting to be filled with ticky tacky houses of suburbia.

Not *****ing, just wondering where all of this is going.

marni

Just sayin-

[shootingstar]

The public transportation system (the buses) in Charlotte started at around 8am and were back in their base by 10pm. Where my husband worked he couldn't have used it if he wanted to. Day shift started at 4:45am and ended at 3:45pm. 2nd shift started at 3:45pm and ended at 2:45am. No way to use the public transportation system. Charlotte did built one light rail line (southern part of the city) which is has been successful. However they want to build two more lines.

Koronin, I'm just going by my personal experience on light rail commuter local transit for Toronto and Vancouver:

I believe their lines open up (except for Sunday which is later) @ 5:00am and close aroun 1:00am. That is the norm. In Toronto there are a few bus lines that run 24 hrs., but not many.

I believe those are the best open available hrs. for any major Canadian city transit system. Maybe the U.S. has a city that runs 24 hrs. service but highly doubtful for all their major lines? Somehow I would doubt that. No one is saying ban cars since night shift workers need to drive.

Metro Vancouver and Metro Toronto have high VERY vocal large number of citizens who express their ongoing need for expanded transit.
Citizen voice en masse and persistent must be there with ongoing participation at every opportunity in open houses, open forums. This is why transit issues in those 2 cities are discussed. People don't give up entirely.

In fact just 1.5 wks. ago , the chief head for Toronto Transit was fired by the commission. He did nothing wrong, he spoke up against the Mayor. He received huge public support....goes to show you the citizens cannot sit back and complain privately.

Vancouver continues to press onward even when their transit authority mistakenly dipped into their reserve fund and left a bit of a deficit. Still the lines are being planned now. In Calgary, there continues to be media coverage for the construction woes. Whatever. But in the end, there will be expanded service.

Controversy is part of the birthing process. Can't back down. I don't know what car drivers expect: do they think they can still drive safety @ 82 yrs. old, 90 yrs. old? Walkable sustainable communities close to services becomes very important over time. Liviing out in rural areas is great...if you have lots of reliable, helpful friends for life. The birth rate is dropping, less people are having children. (Of course, not all children look after their elders, ie. drive them around..)

[shootingstar]

There is a very strong infrastructure of alternate transportation including feet in the Netherlands and always has been. We survived 15 years and three kids with scouting, sports, after school and school activities with 1 car that was used primarily for weekend touristing excursions or if my husband had to drive to the work site in Belgium.

My own little pontiac vibe sits in the driveways several days in a row several times a week. I am very lucky that we live where the only paces I go to on a regular basis are within a 10-12 mile radius, and that the gym is understanding and lets me bring my "bebe" inside and park it next to the reception desk instead of having to leave it chained out in the parking lot of the strip mall where the gym is located.



Marni, since you lived in the Netherlands and had the great experience of raising a family without super heavy use of cars, now living in Texas, you're a poster family of how it is possible to adapt. If the community is properly designed with transportation alternatives.

[Koronin]

Shootingstar, I remember Toronto's rail system about 15-20 years ago being very accessible as far as tourists go. I went there with my dad for a weekend for vacation and we used the subway/rail system while we were there. Most US cities don't have any public transportation and if they do it pretty much is useless to the majority of citizens. New York City and Washington DC are the exceptions of having decent to good public transportation. I know Boston and Chicago also have public transportation, but I've never used either of their systems.

[Crankin]

Our public transportation system is in the throes of financial crisis, at the same time that ridership is increasing quite quickly. There have been all kinds of public forums where riders and now major employers are speaking out about the cuts being proposed. People are willing to absorb a fare increase at this point. Our transit system is quite inexpensive compared to other major cities. This morning I actually heard that one of the proposed cuts would be on one of the lines that serves the Longwood Medical area, i.e. Brigham and Woman's, Dana Farber, Children's Hospital. Those employers have a ton of clout, so we shall see.
Change happens very slowly here. There are a lot of people who depend entirely on public transportation, too. Not sure what's going to happen in the end.

[shootingstar]

Even when my parents finally bought a car, they made sure each time they moved from 1 home to another, that the home was within a 15-min. to public transit.

All of my siblings have acquired homes in very different areas of Metro Toronto and even for those who have cars(1-2 cars per family), they each bought a home within 15-min. walk of local transit. Of course, being accessible, in Metro Toronto and Vancouver to transit, can add value to your home property.

Parents' decison-making on home location, can influence way down the road of the type of lifestyle, home location a person chooses later in life...amongst others factors, housing market value, location of job, etc.

Someone at work here, told me she met a woman whose 2 children (now young adults) had never used local public transit in their life. And they live within our city. In the city where I live and knowing its configuration, it's almost unimaginable (to me). Light rail transit has existed in our city for the past 20 yrs., bus service longer than that. (We used to have streetcars running through downtown core.)

[Koronin]

The one light rail line in Charlotte was built within the last 5 years. They've had bus service longer. However, get outside the major metro areas and public transportation is non existent. I never did use the public transportation in Charlotte, but we lived outside of Charlotte and with hubby's work hours it wasn't available and I worked in the town we lived in the most part. When I did work in Charlotte I had the same issues, the hours I worked were not compatible to public transportation. The city I grew up in never has and does not have public transportation. It's a city of around 50,000. I have no issues using public transportation as long as it's convenient and well actually useful.

[smilingcat]

For those who just can't give up a car, there are lot of interest and push in new class of cars for urban transportation.

Cars similar to Smart Car. Cars with exceptional MPG. These cars are ultra small, has very small footprint, and uses very little material. This would be the first step toward weaning people off "OWN YOUR OWN CAR" and into mass transit. http://gizmodo.com/5879489/mits-folding-city-car-is-finally-a-reality. This car folds up to half the size for smaller parking space. It's not for highway use though.

And if you want go lighter and smaller then there is this an electric assisted velomobile http://www.aerorider.com/en/aerorider.html Too bad you can't buy one in US and trying to import one would cost you over $15,000. It does have small storage space behind the seat.

I don't see why we can't have a fully enclosed electric scooter like the aerorider and without the speed restriction of electric assisted bicycle/velomobile. Gosh it would consume less than 1kW of electricity to commute. toaster oven of electricity for an hour.

Just think, amount of space needed for a car versus amount of space needed for velomobile and bicycles. How many more people could commute on the same road!! and how much less energy and money we would be burning up.

Well I am biased since this is what I am working on when I get all the software on my computer up and running. I want to build volksfahrrad ;) costing $2,000 or less and powered by electric motor for those too lazy to pedal.

[Koronin]

Interesting, but they look like they aren't very safe and have no storage, cargo room at all. About all they'd be useful for is commuting. It doesn't even look like you could make stops on your way home from work to pick up something you may have forgotten on a shopping trip, which they'd also be useless for.

[marni]

Marni, since you lived in the Netherlands and had the great experience of raising a family without super heavy use of cars, now living in Texas, you're a poster family of how it is possible to adapt. If the community is properly designed with transportation alternatives.

ahh but the if is the biggest part of the deal. I am not foreseeing any transportation alternatives in the near future of any Houston suburb.

In the Netherlands we lived in a row house (the Dutch equivalent of a town house) and had a pocket front garden that was 15 feet square and a back yard that was 25 by 75.

easy to keep clean, mowed, take care of, and if the kids needed a place to play, there was a playground within 1/4 mile in either direction and school playgrounds and community sport fields about 1/2 mile away.

As in the Netherlands, we lived on the edge of burbs on the borderline between farmland and development yet here, the closest school playground is 1.5 miles away, a community playground about 3/4 mile away. If I had young kids still they would find no obstacle in walking or biking that far, but I never see young kids in our neighborhood out, playing in the very not busy streets, playgrounds or sport fields. Yeah, I know it gets hot and humid here, but that's not for the whole year nor early mornings or late afternoons.

It's all about lifestyles and what people are prepared to embrace.

but thanks for the back pat.

marni

[marni]

from another biking /facebook site.

Trek Women
Almost half of daily travel in the Netherlands is by bike, including the bicycle school bus. Would this work in your city or for your kids?

Dutch Kids Pedal Their Own Bus To School
www.fastcoexist.com
The Dutch are bicycle fanatics. Almost half of daily travel in the Netherlands is by bicycle, while the country’s bike fleet comfortably outnumbers its 16 million people. Devotees of the national obsession have taken the next logical step by launching what is likely the first bicycle school bus.

[hebe]

... My car gets very average mileage (18 mpg), it's almost 9 years old, and has AWD, which is necessary where I live.

I think this illustrates perfectly one of the differences between countries with a history of lower fuel prices and those with a history of higher prices. In the States there doesn't seem to be any real pressure on manufacturers to make cars that are more economical to run. Over here, it's not just a case of how much it costs to fill your tank, but also how much tax you pay on your company car and how much VED (erroneously known as road tax) you pay - both are mimimised if you run a car that has lower CO2 emissions. Once policy changes are announced we soon see changes in the new cars that are offered to us. Over here, 18mpg would be considered quite poor, rather than average. I have a small car that does a lot of stop/start short journeys and I typically get 48mpg from it. I should be getting more too. I think my husband's last-but-one one was an Audi saloon with AWD, and that cleared 30mpg on shorter journeys. I honestly think that there needs to be a seismic shift in what car manufacturers are offering, in order for fuel usage to come down.

[Blueberry]

FWIW I'm in the US, and I don't think 18 mpg is average for a car. Maybe an SUV, but not a car. One of our cars averages in the mid-20's (up to 30 on the highway). The other, newer one approaches 40 on the highway.

I don't know of very many cars here that would approach 50, though....

[tulip]

I agree, 18mph is quite low for a car. Even my friend's pickup truck gets 22-25. My little car gets 30 last time I kept track, which I consider only okay. I put just over $50 in it a couple of weeks ago; thankfully I don't drive it much.

I do think that car manufacturers are starting to finally offer higher mileage vehicles, although it's taken them way too long over here. Part of the reason is that people won't drive small cars here. My car is small here, and when I rented one just like it in Europe, it was considerably larger than many of the cars on the road. I would love a Peugeot 206 diesel, but there's no way to get one here.

[Catrin]

I agree that 18mph does sound much lower than average - for a new car. Wasn't it just 3 years or so ago when the car industry had their hands slapped for advertising much higher gas mileage for many of their models than anyone with average driving habits could hope to attain?

My last three cars got >30mph, and it tends to be higher in the summer as I do more highway driving.

I am happy with my move from the Lancer to the Soul. Still a foreign car, but the Soul gets slightly better mileage, I sit up higher so I don't feel lost in a forest of SUVs around me at the lights, and it doesn't take up much of a parking space. For some odd reason it is considered a "small station wagon", but it works.

This year I hope to get a bit more comfortable with urban riding so that, perhaps, I can start riding for a little more than pleasure. Considering where I shop though I can't see my being able to do that by bike... I live 20 miles from work, and would like to attempt a commute at some point, we will see.

[Owlie]

I agree, 18mph is quite low for a car. Even my friend's pickup truck gets 22-25. My little car gets 30 last time I kept track, which I consider only okay. I put just over $50 in it a couple of weeks ago; thankfully I don't drive it much.

I do think that car manufacturers are starting to finally offer higher mileage vehicles, although it's taken them way too long over here. Part of the reason is that people won't drive small cars here. My car is small here, and when I rented one just like it in Europe, it was considerably larger than many of the cars on the road. I would love a Peugeot 206 diesel, but there's no way to get one here.

Depends on how old the car is, though. My Honda's nearly 13 years old and gets about 20 mpg city and 27 highway, ideally. As far as I can tell, that was decent back when the car was new. A 2012 Accord (with approximately the same specs as my car) gets 23mpg city and 34 on the highway.

My car gets better gas mileage than my friend's Pontiac of the same year, though. :D

[zoom-zoom]

All 3 cars currently in our driveway average ~28. One is a compact car (Mazda 3). 28mpg is not great for a car that size/weight and the newer ones are more efficient. The old Mazda 626 is midsized...28mpg is pretty average for a car that size (both Mazdas have 150-160hp). We have a 4-5 year old Toyota Rav4 that is significantly larger and ballsier than the Mazdas, but the mpg rating is about the same.

18mpg isn't even close to average. Not when there are a lot of non-hybrid, non-diesel cars on the road getting at least 2x the mpg. Perhaps if one lives in an area where everyone drives large SUVs and pick-up trucks 18mpg might be average.

[Becky]

I guess it depends how that mileage is being reported. If we're talking about the CAFE standard "town" mileage, then yes, 18 mpg is probably normal. However, CAFE is a) a worst-case, "cold engine, AC on" metric, and b) not representative of typical mixed-use driving. My car's CAFE standard is 19/26 (town/highway), but I routinely get 25+ mpg and I can break 30 mpg on a long trip. Let's just make sure that we're comparing apples to apples here.

That said, I agree with the sentiments of this thread and, in particular, Hebe's eloquently-stated observation about a desperately-needed seismic shift.

[Crankin]

Well, my car is a 2003 BMW 325X; at the time I wanted a small sedan with AWD and there weren't a lot to choose from. Subaru, Mercedes, and Volvo. I wanted more of a luxury car, so I drove the BMW, the Mercedes, and the Volvo. The BMW had the most for the $, and the Volvo was too big and not much different than the one I had in 1983. So, maybe the mileage is 20 or 22 for around town, but at the time, I didn't care; I hardly drove compared to now. I already had a big SUV and a mini vann, so I wanted small. AWD is a requirement to get up my driveway/street. Now there are a lot more choices with better mileage. As someone who learned to drive in the snow at age 36, it's frightening enough to me. I'll probably have my car another year and hopefully, there will be more choice. Right now I have to decide if I want to switch jobs to save driving mileage, before I plan to get a new car.

[smilingcat]

okay if not for MIT media works inspired car how about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUcAkucShzQ&feature=player_embedded

We love this car. If we put an updated engine, I'm sure we could get 60-80MPG?? BTW, fiat has brought it back, updated much larger fiat 500 and unfortunately, it only gets 30/38MPG :mad:

[Koronin]

I agree that 18 is not very good for a car and not great for a smaller pick up truck either. We have two cars and two pick up trucks all of which get over 20 mpg. Our oldest is a 1987 Ford Ranger which gets right at 22mpg, actually the 2005 Ford Ranger also gets right around 22 mpg. The difference is the older one is 2 wheel drive and newer one is 4 wheel drive. We bought it specifically for the 4 wheel drive. The two cars one gets about 25 mph the new one gets just under 30mpg. The 2003 Monte Carlo SS gets about 25 mph and the 2010 Nissan Versa gets just under 30mpg. For the Versa that is strictly city driving. We've actually never even had it on a freeway. We bought the Versa over the summer to help with gas mileage for my job as well as have a more useful car for my job as well. Which is why we had to find something that has a hatchback, which can be difficult to find.

[zoom-zoom]

Which is why we had to find something that has a hatchback, which can be difficult to find.

It's getting much easier in recent years. I LOVE my hatchback...I will NEVER again own a sedan. Such a waste of utility. My dream car would be a Ford Focus wagon, which they have in Europe, but so far we just get a hatchback version.

[Koronin]

zoom-zoom, I totally agree with you about the Ford Focus wagon. I saw some pictures of it and wish they would sell it here.

[hebe]

Mine is a 4 year old Renault Clio 5door (small hatchback). It's diesel rather than petrol, so is very economic to run especially over longer distances.

So we have more expensive fuel but more efficient cars, and you have cheaper fuel but less efficient cars. Someone somewhere must have it right...