Fit issue

[goldfinch]

I recently put speedplay pedals on my Madone. The set up was done by the LBS at my northern home and I was fitted with these pedals on the bike. But I took them off and used my power grips. I was comfortable on the bike with the power grip pedals on rides up to my longest, 57 miles. Nothing hurt.

Now I finally bit the bullet and went clipless. It turns out that I have no problem clipping in and out. But, things just don't feel quite right. Yesterday was my second ride with them. I went 12 miles and the outside right of my right knee bugged me a bit, especially for the first 2/3 of the ride. I also felt like I was sliding forward on my saddle. My saddle is level. I've always been happy with this saddle and have about 1200 miles on it.

Ideas? Is my saddle placement a bit off? Or the cleats on the shoes? Anything that I can try before trying to hunt up a bike shop?

[Koronin]

It could be the positioning of the where your foot is on the pedal. My husband had an issue with the first set of clipless pedals he tried. He had a lot of issues with his feet. Bought another set, different style and he hasn't had any issues with those. So that could be part of it. I haven't had real issues that way, just a semi fear of having my right foot clipped in so I use the type that has clipless on one side and platform on the other.

[OakLeaf]

Try moving the cleats farther forward on your shoes (farther away from your ankles - may be the reason you're being pulled forward). You can probably tell by feel which direction your knee is being torqued and make an adjustment in the cleat rotation. Bring whatever tool you need to adjust your cleats with you on your rides - have it easily accessible in a jersey pocket and be prepared to make tiny tweaks every five or ten miles until it feels right.

[goldfinch]

Okay, I'll experiment. Thanks.

[OakLeaf]

I thought about this a little more ... I've been doing it for so many years it's kind of natural and I don't think about it much.

When cleat rotation is off, the feel is as much in my foot inside my shoe, as it is in my knee. I might not notice it until I get knee irritation, but if that happens, it's my foot as much as anything I'll be paying attention to.

Fasten your shoe slightly loosely, get on the bike and clip in, relax everything and let your knee and ankle track the way they want to, and feel which side of your shoe your toes are pressing against. Then rotate the cleat so that your foot naturally wants to center inside your shoe.

[goldfinch]

I thought about this a little more ... I've been doing it for so many years it's kind of natural and I don't think about it much.

When cleat rotation is off, the feel is as much in my foot inside my shoe, as it is in my knee. I might not notice it until I get knee irritation, but if that happens, it's my foot as much as anything I'll be paying attention to.

Fasten your shoe slightly loosely, get on the bike and clip in, relax everything and let your knee and ankle track the way they want to, and feel which side of your shoe your toes are pressing against. Then rotate the cleat so that your foot naturally wants to center inside your shoe.

Great idea! I'll try that today. Looking at my cleats they already are adjusted so that they bring me as close to the crank as possible, so I can't move them inward any more than they are. So I hope that I don't need to!

[tzvia]

Speedplays have a very low stack-height. That is, they are not very tall, and while the cleats look massive and thick, the pedals sit IN them so your feet are very close to the spindle. So your seat height will have to be checked. If you did not adjust the seat height when you removed the Speedplays and put your old pedals on, you were riding with a lower effective seat height and your body is used to that length. With the Speedplays, you are extending your legs further with each pedal stroke. This will make you feel like you need to slide forward to compensate for the greater length, to get closer to the pedals. Maybe mount the old pedals again and have a friend measure, with you on the bike, the distance from the saddle to the bottom of your lower foot/start of shoe bed, with the cranks vertical. Then do so with the Speedplays.

The thing about Speedplays that is one of their strengths IMO is their float. As long as the cleats are installed correctly with the spindle under the balls of your feet, your legs and knees should not feel like they are being held in the wrong position as your feet are free to pivot into the position that your legs dictate. So Rotating the cleats may not provide much noticeable change as your feet are not locked into an arbitrary angle to begin with.

[Kathi]

Speedplays have a very low stack-height. That is, they are not very tall, and while the cleats look massive and thick, the pedals sit IN them so your feet are very close to the spindle. So your seat height will have to be checked. If you did not adjust the seat height when you removed the Speedplays and put your old pedals on, you were riding with a lower effective seat height and your body is used to that length. With the Speedplays, you are extending your legs further with each pedal stroke. This will make you feel like you need to slide forward to compensate for the greater length, to get closer to the pedals. Maybe mount the old pedals again and have a friend measure, with you on the bike, the distance from the saddle to the bottom of your lower foot/start of shoe bed, with the cranks vertical. Then do so with the Speedplays.

The thing about Speedplays that is one of their strengths IMO is their float. As long as the cleats are installed correctly with the spindle under the balls of your feet, your legs and knees should not feel like they are being held in the wrong position as your feet are free to pivot into the position that your legs dictate. So Rotating the cleats may not provide much noticeable change as your feet are not locked into an arbitrary angle to begin with.

+1

After my ACL surgery my ortho would not let me ride with my Speedplays, or any clipless pedal system. My fitter changed my saddle height to accommodate the flat pedals. When I went back to clipless my fitter readjusted the saddle height.

When my fitter makes changes on my bike he recommends keeping my rides short for a couple of weeks, not more than 10 miles, as the body needs to adjust to the changes.

IMHO, don't change anything. If you're still having problems after a month or so see a fitter. That way he can see if there is something wrong with your original setup. If you make changes the fitter won't be able to see what the first setup was and won't have a base to start with.

[goldfinch]

I tried the loosen the shoes tip and my right foot wanted to be more on the outside. I tightened the shoes a bit to go for a short ride, before messing with the cleats. I had no knee issues so maybe it is a case of adapting to a different system. If I have any more problems though I may move the cleat outward a bit.

Also, this is kind of weird, but I wore my new Shebeest shorts, which are not slippery unlike the shorts I wore on the ride where I was sliding on my seat. I didn't slide at all. I think before making a change I'll do a few more rides. I ended up riding 15.75 miles this morning.

Now for the bad stuff. Half way into my ride three dogs came out after me. I determined that I could not easily outrun the dogs, so my plan was to stop and put the bike between me and the dogs. While slowing down and before I could disengage the pedals, the lead dog and I got tangled up. I went down, clipped in. The dogs took off. I had to undo my shoes to get out of my right pedal. I am pretty skinned up. A driver stopped and helped me out. I started crying like a baby.

The dog owners came out and watched everything from their yard.

I managed to get myself together, got back on and rode home.

My knee hurts, but not from the pedals.

I am having post trauma here. What if those dogs had been really agressive? There I was, trapped in my pedals, on the ground.

I pulled out the pepper spray and mounted it on my bike.

I need a hug.

[Crankin]

Goldfinch, generally Speedplays do not release when you are in a crash... at least, that has been my experience. But, I still would not use any other pedal.
I just unclip lying there in road, on my side, no having to take the shoe off. I guess if you're cognizant enough to do that, it's fine, if you're not, you have worse problems. But, with dogs nipping at me, I can see why you are freaked out.
I had a dog issue in my neighborhood a couple of years ago. When I saw I wasn't going to be able to outrun the dog, I immediately unclipped, before I even stopped and just rested my foot on the pedal. I mean, I unclipped right away, on one side, before I made my decision as to what to do. As you did, I decided to stop and put my bike between myself and the dog and scream my head off. And, to top it off, I was at the beginning of a little hill. The owner (my neighbor) heard me screaming and called the dog away.
I am sorry this happened, but this also happened to me with spd pedals (not releasing in a crash), in a busy intersection, so I would chalk it up to something that happens, not necessarily related to Speedplays.

[goldfinch]

I managed to unclip my left foot when I was on the ground, but I just couldn't twist out of the right. I had fallen to the right. Yes, I figure that I should have unclipped as soon as I saw I had a dog problem, but it happened so fast. I am sure that my lack of experience with clipless did not help

[OakLeaf]

(((((((goldfinch)))))))

Hope you heal up quick. That s*cks. Is there a leash law where you are? You might report them to animal control.

[goldfinch]

I doubt there is a leash law here in this rural part of Texas. I'm just not taking that route ever again! Thanks Oak.

[Catrin]

I doubt there is a leash law here in this rural part of Texas. I'm just not taking that route ever again! Thanks Oak.

So sorry to hear you had a tangle with some dogs, very glad to hear that you got out of it without major injury {{{{{Goldfinch}}}}

[Wahine]

(((((Goldfinch)))))

And +1 about the stack height.

[emily_in_nc]

So sorry, goldfinch. When I had my serious dog-related bike accident, using Speedplay X-2 pedals, I clipped right out (not by trying; it happened so fast, I was just lying there and bike was over a ways, separate from me). The dogs also ran away when I hit the ground in my case. It is scary! Be glad you didn't fracture your pelvis like I did. :eek: Not a good day. :mad:

I actually HAD Halt on my handlebars when this happened and was reaching for it, but I hit my DH's rear wheel as he had slowed down a bit when he saw the dogs. I sped up, leading to disaster.

Hopefully you'll never have a ride like this one again. Loose dogs are really scary, though. And there seem to be a lot of them in the south. My accident occurred in rural NC.

[goldfinch]

Thanks for the nice words and Emily, boy am I glad it wasn't worse.

I'm very sore and bruised. I spent yesterday mostly in bed with a novel. I am going to try a short ride this morning to see how it goes. I am very sore and had a hard time sleeping. I generally am not easily rattled but I think being alone here doesn't help.

[Crankin]

A nice, easy spin will help the soreness. Don't overdo it, but sitting around will probably make it worse.
I wonder why this is such an issue in the rural south?

[Jo-n-NY]

Everytime I see a dog on a ride or hear of a dog chasing a cyclist I always think of Emilly.

Goldfinch, I hope you feel better very soon!!!

[tzvia]

:eek: (((goldfinch)))
Oh good gosh. :(

Hope you are ok. Take it easy for a bit, heal up. When I crash I like to take soaking hot baths with Epsom salts. Another soothing bath soak is (please don't laugh) camomile tea. Works great for muscle aches, and then making some to drink after, just before going to bed, makes it easier to sleep. A few drops of lavender in the bath with the camomile is also soothing.

Riding in an urban area, it's easy for me to take for granted that dogs are either behind fences or are road kill. I would guess that for rural areas that are not typically fenced, good strong pepper spray is like a spare tube, really useful when the need arises. I guess I would clip it to the bars, and get it ready whenever I see lose dogs. I don't think that they will bother you the second time if you pop 'em with it the first.

As for the pedals, yea, generally I find they don't unclip when I go down. I actually prefer it, as I try to stay with the bike and not stick out my arms and legs- that's a good way to get them broken. If I can keep my hands on the bars, I do so, if not, I try to remember to tuck them in. Usually end up with hamburger elbows from sliding on the ground.

[Owlie]

((Goldfinch))

[OakLeaf]

I wonder why this is such an issue in the rural south?

I don't think south vs north has anything to do with it, it's more urban/rural, and it's just cultural.

Country people typically fall into two categories - those who keep their dogs on short chains or cages either 24/7 or any time they're not out hunting with them :( - and those who don't confine their dogs at all - whether they're working dogs or just companions, they're accustomed to having the run of the property with their people - some people are better than others about training their dogs to stay on their property, and some dogs are better than others about internalizing those lessons.

Catrin had her dog incident in Indiana, it's the same in Ohio and it was the same in North Dakota when I lived there.

[Catrin]

Catrin had her dog incident in Indiana, it's the same in Ohio and it was the same in North Dakota when I lived there.


In Indiana, I see a difference from county to county on this. In counties to the NW/West side of Indianapolis people seem to keep their dogs confined in some way for the most part (typically behind a fence). My attack actually happened in an urban park setting. Counties on the south side of Indy see many more loose dogs...which means I haven't ridden there solo and may not. On a group ride, sure, but not solo.

[indysteel]

In Indiana, I see a difference from county to county on this. In counties to the NW/West side of Indianapolis people seem to keep their dogs confined in some way for the most part (typically behind a fence). My attack actually happened in an urban park setting. Counties on the south side of Indy see many more loose dogs...which means I haven't ridden there solo and may not. On a group ride, sure, but not solo.

You are absolutely right there! I assume it's a reflection of certain socioeconomic differences. Oh, how I miss riding in Boone County.....

Goldfinch, so sorry about your fall. Getting chased/struck/bit by a dog during a ride is one of my bigger fears.

[louisianalouise]

Hi Goldfinch

I had some cleat issues that needed resolving with shims - basically, my knees would hurt because my leg was not tracking straight so a small plastic disk (thicker on one side) made for your cleat system is placed between your shoe and cleat.

It immediately alleviated my knee pain. However, any fit or pedal system change is going to take time to adjust to. I would start by re-arranging where the cleat is on my shoe and make sure it is not at an angle :)

Speedplays are known to be lower stacked, so saddle maybe down a bit. If they still don't work, get yourself some LOOK KEO EASY pedals which are made for recreational and beginner riders and very easy to clip in and out of (not good for sprinting though).

As for those dogs - shame on the owners. When I see a dog come after me I lower my voice as much as possible and bellow "GEEET BAAAACK!" and it usually scares them off.

A pack of 3 though? Wow, some people do not know the meaning of fence. I hope you heal up soon.

Stick with the clipless pedals it is well worth it :)

[goldfinch]

I am feeling much better today, both in the head and physically. Thank you all for the kind words, it helps. Last night I slept better too. I went for a good long ride today on my hybrid with some guys I ride with once in a while who ride at a slow pace. Other than being a bit stiff I think I am in good shape.

I haven't been back on the road bike. I will do that tomorrow and keep plugging along with the clipless. On a different route. With the pepper spray attached to my bars. I met one rider here who rides a lot. He has a cattleprod/taser thingie on his bike. Cripe.