be nice to your knees

[crazycanuck]

Ok, so the above thread title probably already makes sense to you & you're wondering why it's taken an off on my bike to understand...

I got back on my bike the other day as i was told yes i could however take it slowly...I did & my knee's still not 100%...which i find very depressing...(i feel like a fat heffalump..no long distances for almost 2 weeks@!!) Anywho, to make a long story short, be nice to your joints & don't fall on rocks...

Perhaps i could ask, has anyone else experienced the following-it's during the pushing movement down when you bring the knee up again that is causing the pain at the top of my knee. I can't do any hills very fast & am taking it slowly atm...(even stairs are painful)

I'm annoyed...I wanna bike faster & i know Ã*'m impatient but perhaps another week or so and i'll be back to normal...

c

[ajhagg]

If your having problems with your knees maybe your bike isnt set up properly. You should go to your local bike shop and get them to check this out for you. :D

[allabouteva]

I agree wholeheartedly.

My friend is a MTB mad physiotherapist, and he helped me a lot with setting up my bike. Both my knees used to hurt like crazy. So my friend helped me set up my bike, and even the position of your cleats make a huge difference.

My knees don't hurt at all now.

But I know how you feel! It's been raining heaps here, and biking opportunities have been limited. And it's SO frustrating!!!

[mary9761]

I know how frustrating it can be to have patience to let something heal without wanting to push the situation. Try to hang in there and let that knee heal then double check your seat position etc to see if you don't possibly need an adjustment.
Good luck
Mary

[CorsairMac]

Ok, so the above thread title probably already makes sense to you & you're wondering why it's taken an off on my bike to understand...

I got back on my bike the other day as i was told yes i could however take it slowly...I did & my knee's still not 100%...which i find very depressing...(i feel like a fat heffalump..no long distances for almost 2 weeks@!!) Anywho, to make a long story short, be nice to your joints & don't fall on rocks...

Perhaps i could ask, has anyone else experienced the following-it's during the pushing movement down when you bring the knee up again that is causing the pain at the top of my knee. I can't do any hills very fast & am taking it slowly atm...(even stairs are painful)

I'm annoyed...I wanna bike faster & i know Ã*'m impatient but perhaps another week or so and i'll be back to normal...

c

Have you called the doc and talked to him about it??.....just to make sure there isn't some residual damage still lurking beneath the depths??

[RoadRaven]

like the others say - most likely a set-up issue...

Check how far forward/back your seat is... what angle is the nose... is your seat height right... check the handlebars... check the reach for your arms to the handle bars... but most likely it will be the pedals... make sure the angles are positioned correctly for you...

Any changes to any of the above should be done in small increments, and pref only one at a time...

Good luck, once its right for you it will feel like a new bike

[bikerchick68]

OK... I'm confused... from what Canuck said she fell on rock... is that what caused the injury? If so, it may NOT be setup... if the knee is hurting for no apparent reason, then I'd say get a fit done... but if ya fell on it, and have had it checked, you may just need to be patient... knees aren't made for slamming into rocks... sorry... I know it's gotta be a bummer!

[Bike Goddess]

CrazyC- I have a little tool I carry with me for small adjustments on my bike. It has various sizes of allen wrenches on it which are great.

If you have this tool (you can get it at your LBS)you can adjust the seat height yourself. Have someone at the LBS show you. I will often play with my seat height when I'm out on a ride. You'll discover right away if that's where the problem is. Just be sure you get the adjustment tight! You can also tape where the seat was so you have a benchmark.

The other suggestions about positioning your seat will also help.

Another area for adjustment is your handlebars/stem. I'd go to the LBS for that one. It's amazing what a small adjustment will do for you, trust me!

[traveller_62]

...

I got back on my bike the other day as i was told yes i could however take it slowly...I did & my knee's still not 100%...which i find very depressing...(i feel like a fat heffalump..no long distances for almost 2 weeks@!!) Anywho, to make a long story short, be nice to your joints & don't fall on rocks...


Hey C -

If you have rested for two weeks and have taken aspirin or some other anti-inflammatory and there is still pain on use it is time for a visit to the doc! The kind of pain you describe could be due to lots of things. There is always the possibility of a small fracture or a problem with the tendons in that area. Best to have someone take a quick peek to be sure.

If you have to rest for another couple of weeks you can work on your abdominal core strength and flexibility (which will help increase your cycling speed when you get back on your bike!). :D

Hope your are back on your bike soon!

- traveller

[LBTC]

I agree that a medical professional should probably check your knees and a bike professional should probably check your bike.

One thing that was suggested to me as that pain right at the top of the knee actually indicates that the inner thigh muscle lacks strength. Perhaps that's an area that you could focus on in your strength training to see if it helps?

I find that medical professionals do a better job of figuring things out if they are presented with several options....silly, it seems, but better to take an involved and proactive approach with our own health, than to just assume that they'll think of everything!

Good luck!
Namaste,
~T~

[crazycanuck]

I've had very little direction in regards to sports injuries or injuries in general-i stopped taking nurofen when the swelling went down & thought not to ice my knee as i could walk..

(I thought the feeling in my knee was in my head and have been taking it easy however i thought perhaps i should see someone who has a clue about these things..but then wondered if i was going to waste thier time...)

I went and saw a sports physio & all that's wrong is the tendon under my knee is inflamed..He pressed on the area of the right knee where i fell- firmly massaging it for about 5-10 min (ow ow ow......i can handle pain..) & then wrapped it in ice...

(He showed me where on the knee with a skeleton so if i find a pic of one i could tell you...)

He said to take nurofen every 8hrs & to do the same icing routine at home this weekend. So i have to go back on monday.

I'm off to the pool...

c

[mary9761]

I'm glad you had the knee checked out. We depend on them for so much more than even cycling so it's not something to mess with. I had a problem with my knee in early '88 that indirectly led to my accident that put me on disability and a downward spiral until I recently started riding the bike again. We never found out what was the problem with mine, other than I'm prearthritic and have since had some slight meniscus tears (likely due to all my weight wear and tear) I know I have to listen to my knees if I want to keep on the road (literally) to better health and hopefully complete recovery from all my physical problems.
Follow what the doc says and good luck, thanks for keeping us updated.
Mary

[CorsairMac]

Thnx for going to the doc and having that looked at, and updating us on the outcome. With an injury like you had, the doc was the first place to go. Also, did they tell you to keep on eye on it from now on? I had an ortho tell me way back when - once you take a hard blow on the knee it can lead to potential problems in the future!

Any idea when you can get back on the bike?

[crazycanuck]

LBTC...you mentioned "One thing that was suggested to me as that pain right at the top of the knee actually indicates that the inner thigh muscle lacks strength." you're just about on the mark!...

I went to my pilates session today (worked on mid section only) & we were discussing where i keep feeling certain muscles above my knee on the right side & directly below the knee on the left/a bit abvove either being really sore or feeling like someone's squeezing them...She came to the conclusion that my VMO(vastus medialus Oblique) at the side of the knee (you probably knew that right..) needed strenghtening & the ITB on the outside of the leg needed stretching...(the pains above don't include the knee itself as that's being iced etc)

Corsairmac-not sure when i can get back on the bike-will wait until my appt on monday. Just have to ice it & take nurofen.

BTW...is tendonitis the same thing as having a bruised tendon? I'm still wandering on the net looking at sites on knees & sports injuries...any ideas?

thanks c

[pkq]

My bad knee screams with pain up on the upstroke towards the end of long, grueling rides. But it has a lot of problems so it is expected.

Keep those knees safe and healthy. A friend is a PT who recommended ice water soaks for an ankle sprain. Worked wonders!

An excellent point has been raised about keeping opposing muscle groups "equally" strong. Life is all about balance, isn't it?

I am no doctor but would think bruising and tendonitis are not the same.

Good luck with your knee recovery.

[DirtDiva]

Tendonitis is simply an inflamation of the tendon(s). I guess it could be caused by bruising, but, as far as I know, it's generally related to over-use injuries.

[LBTC]

CC, your pilates instructor has WAY more knowledge than I do! But I'm glad my note had you asking more questions that might lead to relief and long term healing!

pkq - so much is all about balance, it's amazing! Every thing is interconnected, so it all makes sense to me.....it's just sometimes terribly hard to find out which thing is out of balance! :p

Namaste,
~T~

[pkq]

LBTC, yep, you are right. You should have my brain for understanding out of balance. :D A doctor told me once that my butt pain was the tendon/ligament tightening up because the hamstring wasn't being stretched enough and strenghtened enough. I thought he was full of it but followed his advice. He was right. Glad I followed his advice.

[traveller_62]

BTW...is tendonitis the same thing as having a bruised tendon?



A bruise is associated with bleeding (usually small blood vessels...that's what causes the discoloration) as the result of trauma without breaking the skin; tendonitis is swelling or inflammation of the tendon or the sheath that the tendon is covered by.

Bruising and inflammation often go hand in hand following trauma but they are not technically the same thing. You can have tendonitis without bruising because tendonitis is most often cause by overuse instead of trauma.

A bruise and a contusion are the same thing.

-traveller

[VenusdeVelo]

LBTC I thought your comment was also interesting as I never linked the two. Ithought it might have to do with a strength/muscle issue, but was not sure which. After riding on this bike setup now for a few years (was professionally fit), I have ramped up my indoor training this year and for the first time ever, the top of my knees begin to hurt...esp after a long Spinervals sessions and walking up the stairs later.

I am wary about making changes to the fit, and the LBS here are pitiful (living overseas). I am supposed to be back in the US by spring, I am thinking of having a professional re-fit again also...I may just have altered my riding style just enough now to warrant a re-fit, not sure...I am a more aggressive road rider now than I was when it was first fit. Just bought a new mtn bike that likely has a slightly diff fit so I may be getting used to 1 fit over another as well (diff cranks, etc...our LBS claims he cannot find 165cm crankarms ANYWHERE in Europe :confused: so I have 170cm on my new mtb and will probably change those out eventually). And I always contend that biking indoors on the trainer really makes you feel the little tweeks and pains on your bike because you're more "fixed" in a position (ie, the butt is more sore, the feet tend to feel uncomfortable...things you would not feel outside).

I've been playing on the seat (sit back, sit forward) to see if it alleviates some pain, and determine if maybe I make a micro-change to the seat and see what happens. I am frustrated because I have NEVER had knee pain...*sigh*, I don't want to start now. My bike was always my saviour in fact if I ever had sore knees or a sore hip (long-time injury that flairs when I don't get on my bike) -- I rode and it went away.

Any other recos, most welcome!! And I am going to look up some inner thigh strengthening exercises...

Thanks!!

[VenusdeVelo]

CrazyCanuck -- one other thing...I've not rec'd it yet (on order) but some of the runner sites recommended a book called "The Knee Crisis Handbook: Understanding Pain, Preventing Trauma, Recovering from Knee Injury, and Building Healthy Knees for Life By: Dr. Brian Halpern" about $12.

Supposedly primarily about how to protect your knees when you are a cyclist or runner, what to do to ensure they are in great shape, and I am hoping it addresses problems and how to resolve.

Something to think about, Rodale Press, available on Amazon.

[traveller_62]

I have ramped up my indoor training this year and for the first time ever, the top of my knees begin to hurt...esp after a long Spinervals sessions and walking up the stairs later.



venus,

are you working out more than usual? and/or doing a ton of power ramps on the indoor trainer?

even if your bike fits perfectly you can still get tendonitis.

-traveller

[VenusdeVelo]

Well I am doing more indoor training than last year, and I think my spinning is actually a little more riding than I was doing outdoors in the nicer weather. I am actually doing primarily the Aerobics wokr (ie, Spinervals Aerobic base DVDs etc.) so no major power at this point either.

The knee pain just does not seem like tendonitis because of how it can subside in a couple of days when I don't spin. But not 100% sure. It just feeels like something is off...either I need more strength, or fit or something. The weird thing is that when I mountain bike (about 1/week) I don't get the same residual knee pain :confused: and when I rode on the road this summer I did not either.

Hmmmm.....as she scratched her head ...

[LBTC]

Hey, Venus

With your bike on the trainer, do you make sure that the front and rear wheel are level? I don't have a proper stand for the front wheel, but position cast dumbbells to hold the front wheel up....I usually use a tape measure to ensure that both wheels are off the ground by the same amount. If it's not exact, it may change your fit just enough to tweak your knees?

As for inner thigh muscles - side lunges are a perfect one to add to your weight routine to strengthen them. Of course, if you head to a gym they have a few machines that can do it too.

Good luck! I hope you fiture it out soon!

Namaste,
~T~

[RoadRaven]

Has anyone mentioned glucosamine... I just looked at the whole thread, but maybe I missed it...

Glucosamine wont sort out tendons... but it can be hugely helpful for joints and cartilege...

And def check positioning of seat/angle of cleats

[VenusdeVelo]

LB - I will check the exact diff in front and rear, I do have a proper front wheel stand but have never actually measured both to ensure I am not continually riding in an "uphill" position...seat and cleats were all professionally it. Weird thing is I'd never elt this like this on the road this summer (only a small amount), I've noticed it more on the trainer.

I did start the gluco a few weeks ago to see I see a differerence, I won't probably know for another month but hopefully it improves things all around...

*Sigh*, you gotta love what those 40's bring :D !!!

Thanks for all the advice!!

[VenusdeVelo]

Great photos LB!!! I looked at them before and now again, and you've got some great composition in them. And the dogs are my personal fave (love dogs ;-).

[crazycanuck]

Thanks venus for the book suggestion..i'll try and hunt it down here.

My knee's feeling much better but still quite stiff. I went and visited another physio on friday & it was AWESOME....He was quite happy i'd continued my regular regime-swimming, walking to work & pilates as i could pinpoint the minute but important feeling of my knee wavering a little bit as i walked & biked. Also, the reason for some of the pain is yup my ITB is still quite tight...

He gave me some stretches to do, taped the top of my knee & said to go for a ride on sat & let him know if it made a difference while riding. Yup it did & will do more riding before my appt this week without the tape.

Again ladies, thanks for your input & i appreciate your posts.

c