To get a puppy or not get a puppy, that is the question.

[limewave]

DS really wants a puppy. He's only 2 years old, but he has an obvious connection with dogs. I have never seen anything like it before, he is so naturally drawn to them and they to him. He lets dogs 3x his size slobber all over his face, he thinks its the best thing in the world.

We have 3 cats already so we are a little hesitant. We aren't sure what the costs would be on a monthly basis, if it is something we can afford. We do have a fairly large size yard for being in the city, about an acre. And 99% of the time we spend our vacations camping, so we can bring a dog with us.

The breed we are looking at is Weimaraner, so we can take him/her running and biking with us.

Thoughts from dog owners? Monthly expenses? I could use some input. Thanks!

[7rider]

No specific input -other than 2 seems a little young for a dog - particularly a sporting breed like a Weimaraner.

I can't, however, think of that breed without thinking of the movie "Best in Show (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0218839/)" - and Beatrice the neurotic Weimaraner.

[Pax]

Can someone come home during the day to let the puppy out? Do you travel a great deal, if so do you have reliable boarding options?

We're in the same boat right now, really wanting to get another Border Collie (our two have been gone for 7 years), but the two questions above stop us in our tracks.

[limewave]

I work from home, so letting the dog out during the day would be a rare concern. In fact, I usually go for a run or walk on my lunch break already . . .

[Trek420]

I read somewhere that it's estimated that a dog will cost $16,000 over his/her lifetime. Everything from the family heirloom Tiffany lamp he knocks over wagging his tail to the spot on the wall I constantly have to clean because with at least 5 comfy beds she always wants to lean on this one spot ;), medical care, food, treats .... this is over years but would you be buying another car?

Look into fostering a dog or if you could volunteering at a shelter socializing puppies. And please consider adopting a dog from a shelter or rescue group.

Yes you can get a particular breed. http://www.weimrescue.org/

A puppy is a huge investment in time. I missed that, adopted my mutt when she was a year old. For "should we do this" purposes I'd think of it like getting another 2 year old, one who remains 2 for life. :) Would you have another child right now? If "yes" then this might be a good idea.

[indysteel]

I love Weimaraners, but boy can they dig. I lived next door to one in Indy for a number of years and he dug all along my fence line. What kind of fence do you have? They can easily jump those that aren't high enough. He was also a barker. I don't know if that's a breed trend, but it sure drove me nuts.

I haven't been a dog owner for a long time, but here are some questions that come to my mind. How healthy/aged are your cats? What care do you anticipate for them in the near or long term? Having gone through some geriatric feline issues over the last few years, I can say that cats can get pretty darn expensive as they age. If you got another pet, do you think you'd end up having to make different or compromised decisions for your cats because of financial constraints? How will that make you and your family feel? How much time do you have to devote to training a dog? Weims are like a lot of breeds in that they need consistent and effective training. Especially with a young child (and your child's playmates) to worry about, you'll likely have to devote time to training as a family. Are you willing to do that? Is DH?

[withm]

A friend of mine just had a $2,400 vet bill for an MRI for her dog, that turned up nothing. They think they have figured out what is wrong now from a few hours on the internet. I know I would not be comfortable with a financial hit like that.

[indysteel]

A friend of mine just had a $2,400 vet bill for an MRI for her dog, that turned up nothing. They think they have figured out what is wrong now from a few hours on the internet. I know I would not be comfortable with a financial hit like that.

I shudder to think what I've spent on our cats in recent years. In the year before Sophie died, she had two vets bills each in the $1400 range--one for emergency oral surgery and one for her radioactive iodine treatment. Henry has gone through five rounds of illness since 2009: one bad cold, two rounds of a mystery virus, and two urinary tract issues. That doesn't include regular visits and bloodwork and a $250 teeth cleaning. Add to that the kitten's regular care and the care we gave our stray cats through the summer, and our vet bills have likely come close to or exceeded $5k in the last two years. Thankfully, we go to a vet practice that is very reasonably priced or it could have been even worse.

[Biciclista]

SInce your son is only 2 years old, take him to visit dogs, buy him a toy dog.. Wait until he is old enough to do more than "love dogs" as dogs are a huge responsibility and puppies are worse than 2 year olds. Do you really want two two year olds? Your son might love them, but puppies have so many stages to go through that are not necessarily something you want your 2 year old child to be in the middle of. If you want a dog for YOU, get a dog. But it's a big mistake to get a puppy for a tiny tot. Please wait.

[limewave]

Very good input from everyone . . . thank you so much! Sometimes its hard to think of all the angles on your own. Lots of food for thought. I'll have to talk to DH tonight but I do wonder if waiting a few years is the best thing.

I'm starting to really like the idea of having a dog for myself. I do a lot of trail running and mountain biking alone, I would love to have a "companion." Plus being home alone all day . . . I keep everything bolted and locked, but still . . . wouldn't mind the company.

[indysteel]

I'd also recommend doing some additional research on how Weims behave with cats. If they're hunting dogs, that might be an issue.

[Giulianna23]

If you are at home all the time... and the dog is for you not for the baby....Get one...but If I was you I'd get a short haired Labrador...they are awesome!...I had one when I was in my 20's and I used to do a lot of sports and was very active and had my 2 boys (1-3y/o when I got him)but he was mine not my kids...
He used to go with me everywhere...even to the groceries to get a gallon of milk or some bread and waited for me outside the door...everybody knew and loved him.
I suggest a Lab... they rarely go crazy about small animals or other people. Unless they see or smell danger. They are not to small nor to big so when it comes to protect their owner they have a considerable size.

PS: They eat a lot though'

[Irulan]

My thought, is why a puppy? Why not adopt a grown dog who's been personality checked, housebroken and at least partially trained? If you are particular about a certain breed, most if not all breeds have rescue groups that rehome dogs. Sometimes the reason a dog needs a new home is as simple as they moved overseas and couldn't take it with them. A puppy and a two year old sounds way too much work to me....

[limewave]

My thought, is why a puppy? Why not adopt a grown dog who's been personality checked, housebroken and at least partially trained? If you are particular about a certain breed, most if not all breeds have rescue groups that rehome dogs. Sometimes the reason a dog needs a new home is as simple as they moved overseas and couldn't take it with them. A puppy and a two year old sounds way too much work to me....

True . . . I should probably get one potty trained first. Potty-training a dog and a child at the same time may drive me to insanity.

[zoom-zoom]

Schnoodle (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/schnoodle.htm)

Ooh, a friend of mine has a giant Schnoodle...coolest dog EVER. He runs with her, too. And she's very good with his kids, including a toddler.

As neat as some breeds are, I can't look at Petfinder.org and ever justify purchasing a pure-bred pet (dog or cat). Our next cat will likely come from a no-kill shelter and not be a kitten. Or, likely, we will simply take in a stray. This has been our MO for years (we almost ended up with a new kitty on Halloween, too. A sweet little tortie started ToTing with us. We had a hard time keeping her from coming into our house with us, but our existing 4 cats would NOT approve).

If you have your heart set on a specific breed, I agree with looking at one of the breed-specific rescue organizations.

[GLC1968]

I would recommend a rescue as well. I've now had three (dogs, and countless cats!) and they've been great.

Another thing to consider is that if you want to run with the dog, you might be better off getting an adult dog. I think it varies by breed, but there are recommendations about when you should start taking a dog for runs with you because it can be detrimental to their joint development. Also, if you are thinking endurance running - you are probably better suited to a dog breed with a long snout than ones with short snouts (like bull dogs or boxers) as the longer snout dogs tend to handle extended workouts, panting and temperature regulation better than short snout dogs.

Do a search on 'running/training with a dog' and you'll see tons of resources and information that would be worth reading before making your choice.

[Selkie]

Thread drift warning -- I've "bought" five golden retriever puppies (not at once, of course). Our two youngest are from an extremely reputable breeder who screens her dams/sires (hips, eyes, heart, elbows are tested/cert'd). Bloodlines are excellent---she breeds for longevity. Had to sign a contract and she screened us before she'd let us adopt one of her beloved babies.

Rescue dogs are great, but it's really a personal decision as to how one acquires a dog.

Lime---best wishes to you. Agree that an adult dog (probably a young adult but one who is mature) probably would be a better fit if you decide to take the plunge. Puppies are a lot of work because you essentially have an infant in the house. Be advised that larger breeds tend to have extended puppyhoods. Our goldens' were around three before they settled into a modicum of maturity. That said, even the 11.5 year old still has her wild wolf moments. :-)

[Aggie_Ama]

I would discourage a Weim. They are magnificent dogs, beautiful, but everyone I know with them say they are very attention needy. It works great if that fits with your family but my friends with Weimer's say they must take the dog for quite a bit of exercise or they tend to get bored and destructive.

My local shelter does a foster to adopt program. You can essentially "test drive" the dog. That might be a great option when bringing him/her into a house with cats and kids. Dogs act very different in the shelter, they are usually scared and unsure. It isn't uncommon for them to have a different personality after a few days of feeling safe. I know my shelter cat was the same way.

We have bought our dogs. It is a personal choice, for us we rescued in the past but she had a lot of health problems and it was very difficult emotionally. We weighed a shelter dog when we got Jens but for us it was the right choice to go pure bred. That being said, if I could do it again I would try to get a year old or so puppy. You know the terrible twos? Well that is about how a puppy is for at least a year. They whine, they have to be trained, they sometimes "forget" their training when they want to, they destroy things, they need to be watched very closely. For a newbie owner it may be more than you bargained for.

[Irulan]

The thing is, even buying a dog with certified bloodlines, being vetted out by the breeder (signing a contract etc) and all that, doesn't guarantee a perfectly healthy dog, or the temperament. It might increase your chances, but there are no guarantees. Been there and done that with a very well bred golden who had heart failure at 7 - it turned out that out of the whole litter he was the only that that wasn't a total spaz.(Golden)

Certainly it's a personal decision. My experience with purebred rescue is that the dogs are full of love: they know you are the new owner and they love you for giving them a second chance.
I've done breed rescues for Malemute and Goldens.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

A 2 year old wants and 'loves' lots of things, but has no accurate concept of what caring for a dog really entails. To a two year old, a dog is a super fun toy. What would you do if he wanted a penguin? Obviously, you'd get him a stuffed toy penguin and maybe rent some penguin movies or books and visit a zoo, all of which would be appropriate responses to his penguin passion. :)
I feel strongly that one should not bring an animal/pet into the house because a toddler wants one. It's a little different when a child is say 5 yrs old and can understand better about an animal's needs and how to interact properly with animals.

The other night I went to a contra dance and observed a 4 yr old little girl running around with a ribbon-bedecked basket. I was very dismayed to see her pull out a tiny kitten about 4 weeks old, dressed in a doll sweater, and then run around around with the kitten in one hand as though it was a doll. The kitten was mewing and looked exhausted. I said to the child's mother "That kitten is much too young to be carried around like that. Why isn't it with its mother??" and she simply replied that it would be put back with its mother when they got home, and not to worry. I said again it looked too young to be carried around like that or be away from its mother, but that's about all I could do. sigh.... :(
I'm not saying you would do this, but small children don't understand how to care for baby animals- even though they may truly want to be kind to them, they still can't help playing with them on their level- like they would with their toys. You can't leave a 2 year unsupervised with an animal, so you will wind up doing double duty at all times, whether they are separate or together.

If you feel you really want a dog yourself, I'd recommend you adopt an adult dog from your local humane shelter or an animal rescue organization. Puppies and 2 year olds do not mix well together. A grown dog will be less likely injured by a toddler trying to pick it up, carry it, 'hug' it, 'discipline' it, etc.
If you do decide to get a dog, please consider adopting a dog from the shelter rather than buying a purebred dog. There are countless loving loyal dogs desperately hoping and waiting for a 'forever home'. When you adopt a grown or teenage dog you can get a good sense of its personality, temperament, size&coat, and activity level.

All the above is just my personal view on the subject, since you asked opinions. Take from it what you like. :)

[maillotpois]

You prompted me to go back and find my thread on this from a few years back: http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=23142&highlight=puppy

DD was 12 when we brought the puppy home. When she was your son's age, we still had my rottie, full grown, who was just like Good Dog Carl with Em. She loved the dog at 2, but wasn't able to understand the concept of care or responsibility.

But if YOU want the dog, that's another matter. ;)

And BSG - that is a hideous story about the kitten. People thinking animals are THINGS. :mad:

[zoom-zoom]

The other night I went to a contra dance and observed a 4 yr old little girl running around with a ribbon-bedecked basket. I was very dismayed to see her pull out a tiny kitten about 4 weeks old, dressed in a doll sweater, and then run around around with the kitten in one hand as though it was a doll. The kitten was mewing and looked exhausted. I said to the child's mother "That kitten is much too young to be carried around like that. Why isn't it with its mother??" and she simply replied that it would be put back with its mother when they got home, and not to worry. I said again it looked too young to be carried around like that or be away from its mother, but that's about all I could do. sigh.... :(

Ugh, this reminds me of what a mom I know did last year. She teaches at my DS's school and her DS went to the school last year, as well. They had a kitten who was only about a month old--no weaned. They brought the kitten to school on a cold Winter day for kindergarten "show and tell." This kitten wasn't even eating solid foods or drinking water, yet. So he was away from the warmth of his his mom and siblings and without food or water from about 7:30 AM to 5:30 PM. It made me ill thinking about the poor little thing.

[Irulan]

You prompted me to go back and find my thread on this from a few years back: http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=23142&highlight=puppy

DD was 12 when we brought the puppy home. When she was your son's age, we still had my rottie, full grown, who was just like Good Dog Carl with Em. She loved the dog at 2, but wasn't able to understand the concept of care or responsibility.

But if YOU want the dog, that's another matter. ;)

And BSG - that is a hideous story about the kitten. People thinking animals are THINGS. :mad:

OMG, I'd forgotten all about Carl. I suppose there's a slew of those books now. It's been years.

[maillotpois]

I love Good Dog Carl. That was why I got a rottie when I was in law school. And she was a beautiful big gentle girl.

We recently transferred some home videos to digital, and there was a wonderful sequence of Meg the Rottie with Em when Em was 2 or 3. Em was holding onto Meg's leash and Meg started walking away, slowly - and you just knew what was going to happen - Em didn't let go of the leash and Meg pulled her over and Em started crying and it was just so funny and tragic and pathetic. Em was crying "Maddie, Maddie" (which was how she said Meggie at the time) with such a tremendous feeling of betrayal in her voice and poor Meg just had no idea what she'd done wrong (nothing of course).

[Becky]

Our experience with dog adolescence was similar to Selkie's. We adopted our Lab mix at ~6 months (a great age for adopting- would do it again!) and he was 3 years old before he was consistently grown up. IME, the bigger the dog, the longer the "teenage" years.

I'm not sure that I could handle a 2-year old and a puppy...especially if that puppy was a sporting or working breed with a high need to "have a job".

[Koronin]

My husband roomed with a guy who had a Weimaraner. His biggest memory of that dog is that the dog was high energy and needed lots of work.

[indysteel]

I dated a guy with a Weim during law school. During one date, we left him in my apartment while we had dinner. Embarrassingly, I had a number of stuffed animals that I had accumulated over the years throughout the apartment. When we returned, the Weim was sitting on my couch with all of the stuffed animals neatly arranged beside him. It was the cutest thing.

[Trek420]

Do a search on 'running/training with a dog' and you'll see tons of resources and information that would be worth reading before making your choice.

We have a thread right here

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=42567

[Irulan]

I dated a guy with a Weim during law school. During one date, we left him in my apartment while we had dinner. Embarrassingly, I had a number of stuffed animals that I had accumulated over the years throughout the apartment. When we returned, the Weim was sitting on my couch with all of the stuffed animals neatly arranged beside him. It was the cutest thing.
A friend of mines Golden would do something like that. But Wilson would go around the neighborhood, collect loose stuffies, and bring them to his house.

Any hunting or working dog will need a serious commitment for training and exercise from it's owner. Otherwise they can become neurotic and destructive.

[indysteel]

A friend of mines Golden would do something like that. But Wilson would go around the neighborhood, collect loose stuffies, and bring them to his house.

Any hunting or working dog will need a serious commitment for training and exercise from it's owner. Otherwise they can become neurotic and destructive.

I have a number of friends with hunting or herding dogs that are just awful to be around because their energy and need/desire to work haven't been directed in any positive way. I can barely stand to be around one friend's German Shorthairs for this reason. She has them both on Prozac, which is sad to me.

[Trek420]

Any hunting or working dog will need a serious commitment for training and exercise from it's owner. Otherwise they can become neurotic and destructive.

this goes for any dog I think. I've read a saying something like "All dogs need a job. If you don't give your dog a job you might not be happy with the job he or she picks"

[limewave]

The more I read everyone's input and the more I think about it . . . the more I want a dog!!!! But, I do think it's going to be best to wait 2-4 years. Being that I spend most of my time working from home, I really am an ideal candidate to care for a dog. I do a lot of hiking and biking and walking and it would be great to have a companion!

Thanks everyone :)

[lph]

I can barely stand to be around one friend's German Shorthairs for this reason. She has them both on Prozac, which is sad to me.

Seriously?? I have a friend who accurately jokes about "Borderline Collies". They're common as farm dogs here, but most of them are a bit.. uh, intense. I never thought anyone would actually need to give a dog Prozac.

That's a little bit sick, actually (I don't mean to criticize your friend in particular). We've bred for these traits, and now that we have them they're too much so we drug them...

But then. I like dogs, but I really am a cat person. So don't pay too much attention to my griping ;-)

[Aggie_Ama]

I didn't realize people drugged their dogs to tone down their natural behaviors until recently. I jokingly said I thought Jens (my 6 month old pup) needs Ritalin because he is so hyper he sometimes just runs in circles for several minutes. My friend said "oh yeah they can do that". Especially wrong when you get a working breed then drug them because you don't want to give them what they genetically need (a job, exercise). With Jens my husband tries to play with him every night, run him and let him use his energy. It is our fault, not Jens', that he has too much energy.

That is why I like all the suggestions about researching, looking at what kind of commitment you're taking on. Think about how often you will work the dog if you get a working breed.

[amb]

I feel like Weim's are getting a bit of a bad rap in some of these posts....

Yes, most absolutely need plenty of exercise but if they get it, they are awesome dogs. My Sister and BIL are on their 2nd rescued Weim. The first had a horrible jaw infection he couldn't shake. I still miss Riley and that was 2+ yrs ago! Ollie was taken in soon after. I think it really depends on the Weim....Riley was pretty darn mellow (he was 5 I think?) but he loved to get out and hike. Ollie was taken in at ~1 yo....he's pretty lazy too but also enjoys exercise and can go forever. Neither was destructive and neither was ever crated during the day while they're at work. Ollie is VERY good at counter surfing and getting in the garbage though so things must be put away. Riley never did that. Both of them were (and are) major couch hogs....they LOVE to cuddle. Riley was my Sisters shadow and I think Ollie does the same but to a lesser degree.

They're so cute and lovable but defintely need activity. If you can give them attention, they are a great option. I think several states have Weim rescue groups. The one here is Mile Hi Weim Rescue. They might link to others.

Good luck! I sometimes wish I had a dog but they I just visit hers.

[bmccasland]

Back when I was on antidepressants, my dog had lick granulomas and her vet suggested giving her verelin (herbal). I was grumbling to my sister about it, and she gently suggested that I was a mess so of course so was my dog (an Aussie shephard).

Best thing for both of us was taking up going for a walk after work. Nice long walk. :D I got better, and her lick granulomas cleared up, not to reoccur either. I'm a slow learner, but things do get through my thick skull.

RIP Nala, I still miss you.

[indysteel]

My friend's dogs are on drugs not because of their natural behaviors but because she and her husband have them in an environment that is not suitable for their energy level. So, they are acting out by destroying everything in sight and running off at every opportunity. Granted, it could be that they're just not well bred examples of the breed. But I am willing to assume that it's more about them being under exercised and alone all day. They have two small boys, two busy careers and a small house. The dogs are an afterthought most days.

[Chile Pepper]

The thing is, even buying a dog with certified bloodlines, being vetted out by the breeder (signing a contract etc) and all that, doesn't guarantee a perfectly healthy dog, or the temperament.

We got a golden when my son asked for that breed specifically. She's a wonderful dog in a lot of ways, but she is very aggressive with the rest of the pack (three other dogs) and somewhat aggressive with the kids. Her personality is totally golden, but she's an alpha golden. You just never know what you are going to get, even from a reputable breeder.

I would also recommend an adult dog. A puppy will be very rambunctious until it's at least two years old, and I wouldn't want to deal with that with a toddler. A young dog will play roughly, and your kid's face will be right at dog level.

[Irulan]

My friend's dogs are on drugs not because of their natural behaviors but because she and her husband have them in an environment that is not suitable for their energy level. So, they are acting out by destroying everything in sight and running off at every opportunity. Granted, it could be that they're just not well bred examples of the breed. But I am willing to assume that it's more about them being under exercised and alone all day. They have two small boys, two busy careers and a small house. The dogs are an afterthought most days.

That is so sad. But it is a very common scenario. I'm sure it's that they don't get enough attention, exercise or training. Unfortunately for some folks a dog is an accessory like a jet ski or a shrub. There are a lot of dogs in rescue groups and shelters from stories just like this where family gave them up ( thank gd) because they were "untrainable" or "uncontrollable", when really all they needed was attention, firm guidance and exercise.

[indysteel]

That is so sad. But it is a very common scenario. I'm sure it's that they don't get enough attention, exercise or training. Unfortunately for some folks a dog is an accessory like a jet ski or a shrub. There are a lot of dogs in rescue groups and shelters from stories just like this where family gave them up ( thank gd) because they were "untrainable" or "uncontrollable", when really all they needed was attention, firm guidance and exercise.

One of the issues with my friend--and I think this happens a lot--is that they got the dogs a couple of years before they had kids when their lives were very different. Then they had two children and everything changed. I think a lot of young couples get a dog to test out the waters for parenting. While that doesn't always end badly, a lot of times the dog goes from being the center of attention to being largely ignored. It's sad and can lead to some unfortunate behaviors.

[Chile Pepper]

In a dog pack, there has to be an Alpha. If the human doesn't take that role, the dog will.

Thanks, but don't worry. We are quite competent at managing our dogs. My point was not that I couldn't control my dog (I can), but that there is variation of temperament within breeds. Even the nicest breeds can have undesirable characteristics.

[Aggie_Ama]

I feel like Weim's are getting a bit of a bad rap in some of these posts....


I think Weim's are an amazing breed, intelligent, beautiful and athletic. BUT the OP has two small children and my impression is would be a new dog owner. I have a couple friends with Weims that are both single and struggle to keep up with their dogs needs. It is important with any breed to understand their needs and make sure they fit with your life. I love almost every dog breed I see but I don't think a sporting breed would fit me. Sure they would love to be where I am (mountain biking, hiking, camping) but I do like to sit on the couch a lot too. And some of our mountain bike races do not allow dogs on site, it wouldn't be fair if I went away to play for a weekend without my pup. Luckily my schnauzers go stay with my parents and their schnauzer and everyone loves it. We do the same for my parents.

[PamNY]

I didn't realize people drugged their dogs to tone down their natural behaviors until recently. .

There are times when drugs are appropriate. The popular cliche/stereotype being discussed here is not the only situation -- drugs might be appropriately prescribed after evaluation by a veterinary behaviorist -- conditions similar to OCD are an example, and sometimes separation anxiety.

The idea that drugs are "instead of" training or behavior modification isn't necessarily true. A dog might benefit from both, in the same way that humans might benefit from both psychotherapy and drugs.

I'm sure some people use drugs with dogs for the wrong reasons, but it's not true of everyone.

[PamNY]

Affection should only be given when the dog is being calm and submissive. Never when the dog is excited, anxious, scared, nervous etc... or you will be reinforcing that state in the dog.

Not everyone agrees with that. Dr. Patricia McConnell (http://www.thebark.com/content/reducing-fear-your-dog), for one, has another point of view.

[Becky]

Not everyone agrees with that. Dr. Patricia McConnell (http://www.thebark.com/content/reducing-fear-your-dog), for one, has another point of view.

QFT. As I recall, Suzanne Clothier has a similar viewpoint in Bones Would Rain From The Sky.