Work/Dog Issues

[Trek-chick]

Where I work, we are all allowed to bring in our dogs. It is awesome!!! I even brought my two in once.:D Lately, there have been some instances of agression (to be expected to a point) between the random dogs attending work each day.

Today was different though....

One of the girls has a Pit Bull. She has brought it in several times and it always seems wary, but has been warming up to everyone.

I walked into the office she is in (our files are in there, and I needed to find an order) and the dog started growling at me:eek: IMO it is one thing for the dogs to be growling and sorting things out with each other but growling at people. Yikes! I was scared. The breed has a reputation...and not a good one either.

Well, I went and told my boss, because I thought he should know. I let him know it made me totally uncomfortable. I think any of the dogs could be a potential liability but, it just happened to be the Pit Bull that was growling... and at me no less.

Everyone else here seemed to just blow it off as "oh, the dog is just in a bad mood" Did I just take it more seriously because the growling/agression was directed at me? Should I have just let it go? I felt like I had to say something because what if something happens later on and someone gets hurt--I would feel terrible for not saying anything

Honestly, I do not want to set foot in that office if the dog is in there. I do not trust it. What would you have done in my situation?:confused:

[Hi Ho Silver]

I would have done exactly as you did - I've been attacked by a "friendly" pit bull before and it is painful. You might want to remind your boss that since you have informed the powers-that-be about the snarling dog, if the dog does go after someone in the future, the company will probably be liable for damages, etc.

[Tri Girl]

I would have done the same thing! Heck, I was attacked by a sweet, friendly cute little scottish terrier one time. Breed aside- if a dog is aggressive towards people, I think that's a serious issue.


And HOLY MOLY- I want to work where you work!!!! I would LOVE to bring my dog to work! :)

[OakLeaf]

I agree with you, but I think you should be clear in your words as well as in your head that it has everything to do with the individual dog's behavior and nothing to do with the breed (which actually tends to be safer around humans than many other breeds, but can be animal aggressive). Making it about "pit bulls" is just going to cause people to dig in their heels.

Any dog can be territorial. No dog should be allowed to display territorial behavior in an office setting. Period. The dog needs to know that the space doesn't belong to her/him.

[TsPoet]

It sounds to me like maybe the dog has been there just enough times to consider it "home". My dogs would growl at someone coming into their home, but not otherwise. i wonder if some things could be done to let it know that it doesn't posses that space.
I agree with everyone, that behavior cannot be tolerated, and it's only going to get worse. It would be too bad if the dog rules got changed, but it's better that no dogs are allowed in that that someone, or one of the dogs, got hurt.

[NbyNW]

I would ask the dog's owner if she knows whether there was something you were doing that might have triggered the growling, so you could avoid doing that next time. Or if there's anything you can do to let the dog know you are a friend, like give him a treat.

Ultimately, his good behavior is his owner's responsibility, but as long as you need to be going into that space, it might be helpful to talk about how you can get along with the dog. Maybe invite her to bring him to your part of the office for a visit, so he can get to know you in a different setting. Get creative!

It took us a while to figure out Gordy's triggers when we first got him. He doesn't like fists, but the first time someone held out a closed hand for him to sniff as a greeting, we didn't know that. And it took several instances with different people for us to notice a pattern.

It also took us a while to figure out that the more a new person tries to engage with him, the more uneasy he feels. He always gets ramped up when people come to the door. Now when people come over, we have them give him a treat at the door, and then tell them not to interact with him. No petting, no eye contact, no talking to him. He calms down a lot faster that way, and half an hour later he will be totally unconcerned about the new person. Sometimes he will even cuddle up to them.

Don't know why he is like that, but dogs can be funny that way.

[indysteel]

Out of curiosity, where do you work? If you can't be specific, perhaps just indicate the general setting. As much as I love dogs, when I think of the myriad of dog behaviors and the myriad of dog owners, the lawyer in me cringes as the thought of dogs in the average workplace. Unless there were some well understood rules and expectations, along with a clear understanding of the potential liabilities, I just think there's too much room for problems. The mere fact that your concerns were brushed off suggests to me that your workplace hasn't given it as much thought as necessary.

[Susan Otcenas]

What about the people who are allergic? I'm allergic to dogs and it bugs me to no end when workplaces, stores, etc., allow animals to be in those areas.

[OakLeaf]

Naw, that's a completely unrelated issue, and I disagree anyway.

I'm allergic to pollen and mold (severely allergic to some species, and either of those is more common than pet allergies) - should a workplace be required to install HEPA filtration and seal the windows? The only thing that sends me straight into an asthma attack is feathers. I'd be really happy if hotels weren't allowed to stock feather pillows and comforters, but I'm not sure I think that ought to be the law, and what about department stores that sell those things?

[VeganBikeChick]

What if you're not a dog-lover?

[NbyNW]

Naw, that's a completely unrelated issue, and I disagree anyway.

I'm allergic to pollen and mold (severely allergic to some species, and either of those is more common than pet allergies) - should a workplace be required to install HEPA filtration and seal the windows? The only thing that sends me straight into an asthma attack is feathers. I'd be really happy if hotels weren't allowed to stock feather pillows and comforters, but I'm not sure I think that ought to be the law, and what about department stores that sell those things?

Not to get too off-topic, but here's what OSHA says about indoor air quality and building ventilation (http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/indoorairquality/). Basically, standards and regulation may vary depending on geography.

[Dogmama]

I wonder if other people have had the dog growl at them? I'm not a lawyer, but I think management has assumed a huge liability when they did not take action on your behalf. And no, I would not enter a room with that dog. Obviously, its owner does not have control of the dog.

[Velocivixen]

Comparing dog allergies to air/pollen allergies doesn't make sense. People don't have to bring their dogs to work, but you do have to breathe communal air. I like dogs, but think it's sort of wacky to bring them to work unlless they're service dogs. Just don't see any point to it. Heck if you can bring your dog can I bring my cat? My reptile?
I used to work in a hospital so obviously pets weren't allowed. I'd rather the boss let us have ping pong tables and an espresso machine! Lol.

[Selkie]

Comparing dog allergies to air/pollen allergies doesn't make sense. People don't have to bring their dogs to work, but you do have to breathe communal air. I like dogs, but think it's sort of wacky to bring them to work unlless they're service dogs. Just don't see any point to it. Heck if you can bring your dog can I bring my cat? My reptile?
I used to work in a hospital so obviously pets weren't allowed. I'd rather the boss let us have ping pong tables and an espresso machine! Lol.

Dogs at work are great for morale. Unfortunately, only the K9 corps are allowed at my workplace --- people love stopping and petting them when the dogs aren't working. ;)

In a smaller workplace where most/all are dog lovers w/no allergy issues, it would be wonderful to allow dogs.

[Trek-chick]

I work at a small Internet based retailer. We have offices up front and a huge warehouse in back. I am in the office area but, dogs are allowed in either place.

I love the fact that we can bring our dogs to work and would never want to change that. That is the reason I was so torn about mentioning the incident. Having the dogs there is a big stress relief... When you can pick up a tennis ball and play fetch with a dog for a few times, and watching them all play together. Honestly, I think people are happier to be at work, with them there.

I just think this particular dog is aggressive and may be trained to be a guard dog at home from stories I hear. The owner of this dog told me the electric company would not even come to their house to read the meters with the dog there so, she had to bring it to work that day. Then, yesterday before it growled at me, it attacked another dog.

This situation is IMO the owners fault an not the dogs....I think it is doing what it does everyday at home (gaurdian/protector) but has no place in at the work environment.

[indysteel]

But see, that's my point. As an employer, you can't simply allow dogs at work and leave it that. There have to be parameters, e.g., if a dog shows signs of aggression, then it's no longer welcome, at least not without some professional training. I wonder what your employer's insurer has to say about it. If your employer doesn't have established policies for the dogs and their owners, then I think you're bound to have some problems with no clear way to resolve them.

[shootingstar]

But see, that's my point. As an employer, you can't simply allow dogs at work and leave it that. There have to be parameters, e.g., if a dog shows signs of aggression, then it's no longer welcome, at least not without some professional training. I wonder what your employer's insurer has to say about it. If your employer doesn't have established policies for the dogs and their owners, then I think you're bound to have some problems with no clear way to resolve them.

Indy makes a good point.

It might be useful for you to objectively suggest a change..if there is anything in even an email by employer to allow pet dogs. To start this way before identifying a particular dog that someone loves, but could become aggressive.

[Trek-chick]

But see, that's my point. As an employer, you can't simply allow dogs at work and leave it that. There have to be parameters, e.g., if a dog shows signs of aggression, then it's no longer welcome, at least not without some professional training. I wonder what your employer's insurer has to say about it. If your employer doesn't have established policies for the dogs and their owners, then I think you're bound to have some problems with no clear way to resolve them.

I totally agree. Even some employees have mentioned having a dog sign up sheet or something to that effect. Personally, I will not even bring either of my dogs in anymore. Who knows how up to date each person keeps their pets shots etc. I know mine are up to date always but, that's another issue that may need to be addressed.

[rubysoho]

Where I work we have summer camps, including a dog camp. There is a first-strike policy and a dog showing aggression to another dog or human is immediately sent home. (But in this situation we are dealing with other people's children!)

One co-worker brings her dog on occasion. She is in a less frequented office, certainly not an office where the public visits. Her dog bite another co-worker and so the dog has very limited privileges like she cannot be left alone uncrated, stays on a leash in the office, etc...

I can't imagine the higher-ups not responding to a dog growling at a person after having already "attacked" another dog (was the pittie really the aggressor or was the pittie responding to an aggressive dog?). How does that other dog owner feel? Policies need to be in place to fairly handle these situations.

[Trek-chick]

I can't imagine the higher-ups not responding to a dog growling at a person after having already "attacked" another dog (was the pittie really the aggressor or was the pittie responding to an aggressive dog?). How does that other dog owner feel? Policies need to be in place to fairly handle these situations.

The Pit was definitely the aggressor...the other dog was being bit and yelping....and I am still trying to figure out why everyone even the owner of the atacked dog was so nochalant about the whole event. Reason number 2 why my dogs now stay at home.

[rubysoho]

The Pit was definitely the aggressor...the other dog was being bit and yelping....and I am still trying to figure out why everyone even the owner of the atacked dog was so nochalant about the whole event. Reason number 2 why my dogs now stay at home.

Yes, the other dog was being bitten and yelping but my question was more trying to figure out if this was something that was unprovoked or if the "victim" had tried to express dominance or aggressive posturing only to find out the pittie wouldn't back down. Yelping is dramatic but it doesn't necessarily mean anything more than "I give up." It certainly can indicate fear and pain though.

How were the dogs separated? By voice alone or a loud noise? Did people have to drag the pittie off the other dog? I've seen unprovoked violence in dogs and generally there is damage done (they know how hard to bite). But it starts small, like a puncture wound. If there was no physical harm and the dog was called off by voice or little intervention it might be a onetime deal. I'd still be weary and now is a good time to come up with office guidelines.

[Irulan]

Sounds like you need to talk to HR.

[NbyNW]

IMHO a guard dog, if trained properly, should be able to stand down on command.

[Trek-chick]

To answer rubysoho,

I understand what you are saying and I do realize dogs need to work out their pecking order in group situations...it's how they operate.

IMO the dog is being territorial now and protecting it's owner. I just do not trust the dog now.

[rubysoho]

If the owner wasn't correcting the dog (and correcting doesn't mean punish, imo) then I certainly wouldn't trust the dog either! Actually, I wouldn't trust the dog regardless of the owner's reaction.

[Dogmama]

IMHO a guard dog, if trained properly, should be able to stand down on command.

+1

I echo Irulan. I'd talk to HR.

[Biciclista]

the mention of this dog being a pitbull IS valid because of laws in various states regarding them and insurance liability issues.
A growling dog (pit bull, chihuahua, great dane) is not appropriate in the workplace. The owner should have instantly corrected the dog and the boss should have put sanctions on this dog. If I were the one growled at, I might be afraid to go into that room again and be reluctant to perform my job duties.
having dogs at your office is just dandy, but not when it interferes with safety and morale.
I am not a dog person, this would not work for me.

[Velocivixen]

If I were the owner and witnessed my own dog biting another dog or growling at a co-worker I would be conscientious enough to recognize that my dog doesn't do well in that setting and make other plans. The owner of the dog needs to deal with the situation. It's part of being a responsible pet owner (yes, I do know that many pet owners are not responsible).

[NbyNW]

Trek-chick, where IS the owner in all of this? Was she even in the room when the growling occurred? Did she address the dog's behavior? Did you discuss it with her?

[TREKSTRONG]

Ultimately, his good behavior is his owner's responsibility, but as long as you need to be going into that space, it might be helpful to talk about how you can get along with the dog. Maybe invite her to bring him to your part of the office for a visit, so he can get to know you in a different setting.

I agree, and the dog owner must take control the minute that dog starts to growl. That behavior has to be addressed the instant he acts out in that manner. She has to be the 'Pack Leader', and take control of the situation so that the dog knows that he doesn't have to be the protector of his owner - the pack leader has that role.

Once the dog knows that it is not his job to protect because his owner has it under control he will be able to let his guard down so to speak and allow himself to relax. Dog's know when their 'pack leader' is vulnerable and will protect when it's absolutely necessary.

[Crankin]

After reading this thread, I am glad I don't work at your workplace.
I don't like dogs, or any animals much and if I had to deal with this, it would be frightening to me.
One of my clients has a pit pull that is usually crated when I come. They have another dog, too. A couple of weeks ago, the pit bull was out and when I came in, it jumped on me. I almost fell... I was so pissed, told them I couldn't come back, if the dog was not in the cage.
I really don't understand how any employer could allow animals in the workplace. It would be a hostile environment for me.

[Dogmama]

After reading this thread, I am glad I don't work at your workplace.
I don't like dogs, or any animals much and if I had to deal with this, it would be frightening to me.

I really don't understand how any employer could allow animals in the workplace. It would be a hostile environment for me.

As much as I LOVE dogs & all animals, I think Crankin's perspective should be respected. When I'm walking my German Shepherd, or we're in a dog friendly store, I'm always respectful of other peoples' fears. We will move off of the sidewalk or go down another aisle.

Not everybody loves animals. Screaming kids make my blood pressure soar.

[NbyNW]

Very well said, Dogmama. This is actually something I have a hard time explaining to DH, about how some people are just afraid of dogs and that what some people view as "friendly" dog behavior is very frightening to others. And that it's really not appropriate for Gordy to trot up to anyone to sniff them hello unless they have indicated through words or body language that it is welcome.

[Crankin]

Thanks for understanding this. With so many animal lovers, I distinctly feel like a minority, but I know I am not the only one.
+1 Dogmama on the screaming kids. I felt this way even when I had screaming kids! This is why my kids had babysitters, or if they were out with us and started acting up, they were removed from the scene quickly.
I spent a lot of time in restaurant vestibules.

[Kiwi Stoker]

Some places in which I know people can take their dogs/pets to work.

Vet
Animal Shelter
Pet Food company or pet toy/related materials company

However I would believe it should be up to the nature of the dog. My old boss takes his little fluffy dashound to work with him but this dog is so small, no one minds. He simply wanders around and curls up on his dog bed all day. I certainly however wouldn't be happy to meet a medium to large sized dog inside an office unless the dog was very old and slept all day.

I know of a bookshop cat. The shop had a number of cat beds (including the front window) which the cat slept in most of the day. When the shop was sold to a new owner the cat went with the bookshop. Customers knew that a cat lived there and actually asked for him.

[Antaresia]

I loooooove pits so much, there were always way too many at the shelter I volunteered at, and they were all sweet hearts (though usually untrained and terrible at walking on a leash). Small terriers, on the other hand, still make me curl my lip and take a step back.
ah, but my preferences are irrelevant.

If you feel uncomfortable with the dog, that is *very* valid. Do not let yourself be bullied or brushed off by your co-workers. Understand the owner of the pit may take your concerns personally, so try and make it about you more than the dog. As in, "I feel very uncomfortable. I'm sure your dog is very sweet, but I have no idea why he growled at me and he scares me". Any dog can be dangerous, try not to make it about his breed. If anything, people might write you off as an irrational pit bull hater.

Dogs can growl over any little thing, maybe someone was in there harassing him before you. Maybe he was guarding a toy. Maybe he was doing an impression of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Who knows. But you are totally right to be bothered by it, because he also could have been telling you f-off, and that isn't a dog's job.

I hope you manage to work something out.

[Trek-chick]

We are actually such a small company that we do not have an HR Dept. That is why I went to the owner. I have no one else to go to so, I guess I will see what happens.....if anything.

As for the questions about the owner's response....she did tell the dog to stop. Unfortunately, she believes in hitting dogs ( I can not stand this act in people--it makes me so angry) so she smacked the dog too.
I do not think the dog sees her as the Alpha though. She told me a few weeks ago that the dog grabbed her arm kind of aggressively. But, I wasn't there so I am not sure what to think of that.

[OakLeaf]

Ugh. But you still need to go higher up the chain. Whoever is the closest level of management that's the boss of both you and the dog's owner - that's who you need to talk to. If she doesn't see the dog's aggressiveness toward even herself as a problem, it's going to get worse. :(

[indysteel]

We are actually such a small company that we do not have an HR Dept. That is why I went to the owner. I have no one else to go to so, I guess I will see what happens.....if anything.

As for the questions about the owner's response....she did tell the dog to stop. Unfortunately, she believes in hitting dogs ( I can not stand this act in people--it makes me so angry) so she smacked the dog too.
I do not think the dog sees her as the Alpha though. She told me a few weeks ago that the dog grabbed her arm kind of aggressively. But, I wasn't there so I am not sure what to think of that.

Wow; that's just great (she says in her most sarcastic voice). What a fabulous dog owner. No wonder the dog is showing signs of aggression.

[NbyNW]

Sounds like maybe the dog owner needs to do some additional obedience training with her dog, or maybe exercise some better judgment about whether or not it is a good idea to bring him/her to work. Hey, we're all works in progress, and so are our dogs.

A couple of the knitting stores in our areas have an in-store dog. The ones I have met are quite small, quiet, and friendly. They're like another host, there to invite you in to the shop and make sure you are getting good service.

[Biciclista]

the boss sounds like part of the problem. she hit the dog??? Isn't that making things worse? That dog won't have a clue why it was hit.

Good grief.

[NbyNW]

Is the dog owner also the boss? I'm unclear.

[Biciclista]

the dog owner is NOT the boss. but the boss is an idiot (oops did i say that?)

[Irulan]

Just threaten them with a lawsuit.

Just kidding, jeez. But that will get their attention.

[Trek420]

Unfortunately, she believes in hitting dogs ( I can not stand this act in people--it makes me so angry) so she smacked the dog too.

Ah, so here I had all these theories ranging from: normally friendly dog has an illness and should see a vet, needs socialization to cyclists, practice introductions like when you walk INTO the room and the dog is already there there are some "rank in the pack" issues to be worked out ... blah blah blah.

She hits the dog. Wonderful. Lovely. That teaches the dog NOTHING other than to fear people.

I've heard from a trainer "you get the dog you deserve". Unfortunately that dog has not gotten the person he or she deserved. I'm not sure whose job it is to teach the owner positive training methods, to work towards behavior she wants instead of punishing away from unwanted actions.

I'm not sure if bringing treats, doing some simple "sit" treat and praise goes to the dog demos would help (can this owner be trained?) or if you just want to stay away.

[Irulan]

I'm not sure why anyone thinks that an animal that makes someone uncomfortable in any work place but a vet office should be tolerated.

[NbyNW]

I've heard from a trainer "you get the dog you deserve". Unfortunately that dog has not gotten the person he or she deserved. I'm not sure whose job it is to teach the owner positive training methods, to work towards behavior she wants instead of punishing away from unwanted actions.


Amen, Trek.

[Trek420]

Treat me kindly, my beloved master, for no heart in all the world is more grateful for kindness than the loving heart of me.

Do not break my spirit with a stick, for though I should lick your hand between the blows, your patience and understanding will more quickly teach me the things you would have me do.

Speak to me often, for your voice is the world's sweetest music, as you must know by the fierce wagging of my tail when your footstep falls upon my waiting ear.

..... author --Beth Norman Harris

And if this doesn't work for her do you want me to come over there with my boken (Japanese solid oak practice sword) and periodically for no apparent reason entirely randomly whack her with a stick to see if that's a way she likes to learn? :rolleyes: this said as always in the spirit of loving, kindness, protecting all things, supportive, friendly, jovial and peaceful, friendly, non-violent to all which is both Aikido and TE :) :p ;)

[TREKSTRONG]

Treat me kindly, my beloved master, for no heart in all the world is more grateful for kindness than the loving heart of me.

Do not break my spirit with a stick, for though I should lick your hand between the blows, your patience and understanding will more quickly teach me the things you would have me do.

Speak to me often, for your voice is the world's sweetest music, as you must know by the fierce wagging of my tail when your footstep falls upon my waiting ear.

..... author --Beth Norman Harris

And if this doesn't work for her do you want me to come over there with my boken (Japanese solid oak practice sword) and periodically for no apparent reason entirely randomly whack her with a stick to see if that's a way she likes to learn? :rolleyes: this said as always in the spirit of loving, kindness, protecting all things, supportive, friendly, jovial and peaceful, friendly, non-violent to all which is both Aikido and TE :) :p ;)

Bravo!!! T420!!! Your insight is key here ... now that's what I'm talking about!
Thanks for sharing the poem by Beth Norman Harris, boy I sure can't keep my eyes dry in this chat room. That poem is beautiful and depicts exactly how I think our little furry friends see us.

I truly believe with every ounce of my being that animals are just as intelligent as we are, they just communicate differently and probably try to tell us things all the time but we're just not 'tuned' in to them.

If you treat an 'animal' like an 'animal' or as if they have no intelligence whatsoever, then you will get unintelligible behavior back. If you treat an animal like a living intelligent mammal that can be taught to understand what you are trying to communicate to them, then with patience you will get back an intelligent animal that with time will amaze you with what it knows and feels about you. Yes, I think animals have feelings ... no actually I KNOW they have feelings. My dog is a living example of that.

[Trek420]

Bravo!!! T420!!! Your insight is key here ... now that's what I'm talking about!

There are folks on this board who are true experts with dogs. I just have one.

I adopted a large, lab-mix dog (she's my profile pic :)). Like many new owners I took her to obedience class, they gave up on her, took her to another class, same thing, found a dog walker/trainer .... same thing.

So we set out mostly on our own.

We made sure it's been fun on both ends of the leash. I work constantly on her behaviors. Yes, she still has "issues" but she's a different dog than I adopted and we've both learned a lot.

[TREKSTRONG]

There are folks on this board who are true experts with dogs. I just have one.

I adopted a large, lab-mix dog (she's my profile pic :)). Like many new owners I took her to obedience class, they gave up on her, took her to another class, same thing, found a dog walker/trainer .... same thing.

So we set out mostly on our own.

We made sure it's been fun on both ends of the leash. I work constantly on her behaviors. Yes, she still has "issues" but she's a different dog than I adopted and we've both learned a lot.

T420 ... you are also a 'true' expert. I know that with tender loving care and patience that your dog can be just as obedient as any other dog. You are the expert of your dog because you know your dog better than anyone else. Your dog just needs rehabilitation. I have many times in the past been told by friends and family that I am a 'very good' dog trainer. But I see it differently, I am just very observant and patient.

My approach has always been very similar to Cesar Milan from the 'Dog Whisperer' on the National Geographic channel. ANY dog can be rehabilitated and if not then there's something else going on.

It was really sad when I saw one of his shows where he couldn't figure out why a dog would not eat. The owners thought the dog was just a picky eater. Later found out that the dog had leukemia and soon died not long after.

Thank you for saving her (your dog), she's under all those layers of an uncertain past just waiting to break free. ;)