MY Guru frame has arrived at the LBS!

[Crankin]

DH just went there for something else and this is what he found:
OK, the pic is upside down...

[azfiddle]

Good thing I had a laptop so I could turn it upside down and appreciate it! Hope it's altogether soon

[Crankin]

Nothing is easy with me. This build process has gone super smoothly for DH, but not me.
First, both pairs of new shoes (road and mountain) had issues. The mountain shoes are fixed, now trying to find liners for the road shoes.
The Dura Ace brifters are NOT as "short reach" as my R600 short reach brifters on my Kuota, even though they are adjustable. The R600s are now R700s and are 105 instead of Ultegra... I am getting them, despite the fact I will have a crappier level of shifters. LBS tried to blow this off, but DH measured both and just sent an email. He will bring my road bike up there today, to actually SHOW them. Given the fact that I had to research and find the R600s, I knew this would happen. They seem to be stuck on reach/problems with the shifters; my issue is reach and comfort to the brakes. They also ordered a different short and shallow bar, which now I am not sure I trust.
My expectations are getting lower by the minute.

[OakLeaf]

Well I was going to say Happy New Year indeed, but bummer that you're having issues.

If it's any comfort about the brifters, R700s were Ultegra level when they were introduced, it's just that the short-reach shifters don't get the redesign with the rest of the groupsets, so they really aren't "crappy," just a slightly older design that's now trickled down to 105. I did have one fail on me, but that was an issue common to all Shimano brifters. I've had zero trouble with their actual performance. (And if you've been using R600s all this time, I'd be surprised if the R700s, which are an evolution, don't perform better.)

[nscrbug]

Nothing is easy with me. This build process has gone super smoothly for DH, but not me.
First, both pairs of new shoes (road and mountain) had issues. The mountain shoes are fixed, now trying to find liners for the road shoes.
The Dura Ace brifters are NOT as "short reach" as my R600 short reach brifters on my Kuota, even though they are adjustable. The R600s are now R700s and are 105 instead of Ultegra... I am getting them, despite the fact I will have a crappier level of shifters. LBS tried to blow this off, but DH measured both and just sent an email. He will bring my road bike up there today, to actually SHOW them. Given the fact that I had to research and find the R600s, I knew this would happen. They seem to be stuck on reach/problems with the shifters; my issue is reach and comfort to the brakes. They also ordered a different short and shallow bar, which now I am not sure I trust.
My expectations are getting lower by the minute.

Just curious...where did you find the R600 brifters? My older Trek 2100 WSD had the R700's on them and I absolutely loved them...SO much easier to shift than my 6700 Ultegra shifters. I would LOVE to swap 'em out, but the ones on my Trek are for a triple and my current bike is a compact double so they're not compatible.

Linda

[Crankin]

OK, well this bike has a compact double... no one has told me they won't work with a compact. We had no response to our emails, from early AM, which is a bit unusual. DH is on the phone now.
I know that that R700s will be fine... I am just pissed that nothing for small/short people gets upgraded or redesigned like everything else. In fact, I just read something that stated Shimano actually increased the size of some of their shifters. With all of the small women who are on TE, it seems like just this group is enough to show the need is there!
You know, I am not sure what the silver sleeves are, as I have not actually seen the frame (little thing called work). But, I am guessing it has something to do with the s and s couplers.
I did find some innersoles that are specially made for people like me who can't tolerate the thicker ones. Actually, I feel fine riding without any in the shoes, but eventually I will get them.
However, I am surprised at how quickly the frame got built. That's a good sign. It's the components that are causing an issue. At least it appears that i will get to ride this bike before the snow flies.
I know someone from the shop is trolling the internet, looking for comments about them, so I hope they read this.

[Owlie]

Such a pretty blue. :)

I'm sorry you're having component issues, though.

[laura*]

You know, I am not sure what the silver sleeves are, as I have not actually seen the frame (little thing called work). But, I am guessing it has something to do with the s and s couplers.

The silver sleeves ARE the S & S couplers.

[ladyicon]

Beautiful frame, was it built to your size? I loved the Guru fitting machine in the background, it was the only fitting that actually worked for me.

[redrhodie]

I can't wait to see it done, so I can imagine how you must feel! What color tape are you doing?

[Crankin]

Thanks, Laura. I am not the mechanics person in the family. Although, I know a lot more than the LBS suspects and I am keeping them on their toes, thanks to you guys.
Yes, Ladyicon, I had the Guru fit. So, the frame is good. I can already tell by the head tube and top tube that this will be right for me.
I do love the blue color, and i am not one to obsess about color for my bikes. I chose it, because once, I walked into the LBS shortly after I bought my Kuota, and there was a small sized looking bike, leaning against a wall, in a very similar color that I had a very strong attraction to. It turned out to be a Trek 5200, the bike I had just traded in, but mine was the typical carbon color. This bike just called out to me. Since this is the only time I have actually been "attracted" to a bike, I went with this color.
Yea, I chose bar tape. Black. I m very, ah, hard on tape. I have really nice red tape on my Kuota which is totally scuffed up and dirty, and it got this way after about 2 weeks of riding. As I said, I really don't obsess or even care about color, so this was a no-brainer for me. I was more concerned that I got the same very thin, no padding type of tape DH has been putting on my current bike.
So... the bad news last. LBS called Shimano and yes, they still make the R700s. They just won't be available until DECEMBER. Yea, so DH's bike will be ready next week and I have to wait 3 months? NOOOOOO. They are calling around to see if they can find any, anywhere. I would be willing to try one of the other options, as even the R700s are not as short reach (by about 4 mm) as what I have now. This just sucks. Did all of the big name bike manufacturers use up these brifters in the new 2012 models? Or do they just not care about women? I am thinking of contacting Margo, (Luna) to see if she has any ideas as to where I could find these things!
ETA:
OK, I found the brifters on-line, in several places. Email sent to LBS. Seriously, in their quest to do all things from independent businesses this wasn't tried first? And they wonder why I don't buy most of my cycling stuff there? I don't mind spending the $ for my bike, but I don't need $200.00 jerseys. The owner went kind of ballistic on me last week when I mentioned I won't shop in the newer outdoor/Ibex type store that opened across the street, because I won't spend 3X the amount on stuff like my Shaks, as opposed to getting them on-line. I know this is off topic, but still. Yes, I realize these people want to stay in business, it's good for the town, and there's enough super wealthy people in this town who don't care, but I have the right to feel this way. The woman in the picture with my frame is a new employee and very nice, but she's a real techie/engineer, so totally unlike me, it feels weird. She's trying to keep the peace between me and the shop owner, who still keeps talking to me about how the cycling world doesn't think women will spend $ to get high quality components, and that's why they don't make them in small sizes, etc. Well, this woman is willing to spend, and don't keep talking to me about this.

[Owlie]

Ugh, Crankin, I've gotten the same speech from my LBS, about how manufacturers (and shops) don't think women want to spend $$$ on cycling, so finding higher-end components and frames (and actually, pretty much anything!) for women is much harder--either on the manufacturer side (one of the bikes I've been looking at doesn't have a Ultegra-equipped women's version) or on the shop side (good luck finding a wsd with better than partial 105 on the floor!) He sympathized, but then said there wasn't really a market and that having one around would be a very expensive use of floor space. :mad:

[OakLeaf]

But then again, I was just looking, and Ultegra cranks come in 160mm now! Short legs = ok, weetie hands = not ok. :rolleyes:

[Crankin]

So after receiving my email, we were told that "the part has to be ordered from Shimano, for the warranty."
Huh?
DH got on the phone and said, "OK, I'm ordering it. Now. End of story"
The woman told him she didn't think "time was an issue." Let's see, everything else is here, DH's bike is being put together, and I wouldn't care? She was told a couple of weeks wouldn't matter, but 3 months... we don't ride in the snow.
I really don't get the bit about no market for higher end women's components. What about all of us? What do women who race have?
I was going to give my older son the birthday gift of having the bottom bracket and brakes fixed on his Serotta that his younger brother gave him. Now I won't take the bike to the shop, even though they have great mechanics. So, they just lost a little more business.
Oak, I thought that was funny about the cranks. Even I would be spinning like a hamster! I do love my 165s, though. And they gave me sh*t about those 6 years ago.

[Crankin]

Well, an update, about my shoes... I think I mentioned that part of the saga in another thread.
Since I had excruciating pain when I wore my new Shimano road shoes on a 35 mile ride 2 weeks ago, the sales person suggested riding a couple of times without the molded liners, just short rides, and then try them again. I did the rides without them, and it was fine, but when I looked at the liners closely, I just knew they were too thick for my feet. So, I went out and got the thin Super Feet liners for people who can't stand liners and wore them yesterday. The excruciating pain was gone, but I was still getting the burning that I had in my Sidis. I had mentioned to the woman I thought my cleats needed to be moved back , she looked at them and compared them to my Sidis and said, "no, they were both in the neutral spot." Today, I had DH move them back on the Shimanos, and voila. No pain, no burning.
I have learned to trust my instincts. I am going to move the cleats back on my Sidis, as I am keeping them, too. So after having excruciating pain for another reason in the new mountain shoes I bought for the Guru/Frog pedals, and now this, I still am having low expectations. My short reach brifters should be here this week. Now I am obsessing about the bar they chose. I didn't compare the measurements between it and the Specialized one i have on my Kuota, just trusted them with "it's what we sell for women who need a short and shallow bar."
This process just seems so easy for others.

[Crankin]

In case you didn't see the "10/15-16 rides" thread, here it is...

[Owlie]

Very pretty! I take it everything got ironed out in the end, or are you still working a few things out?

[Crankin]

You can read my report in the weekend rides thread.
The biggest problem was the saddle, which is easily remedied (already ordered the same one i've been using for years). Ended up with different bars than they originally got.
Just have to learn to tweak my shifting with the compact.

[Owlie]

I didn't realize shifting with a compact double was that different. Did you have a triple on your Kuota?

[Crankin]

The shifting isn't different in terms of how you go up and down, as I have Shimano on both bikes. I axed the thought of getting SRAM really quickly, when I found out the differences in shifting; too many changes for switching between 2 bikes for someone who is mechanically challenged like me. Yes, my Kuota is a triple. It's just that while I actually have more gears (2) with the mountain rd on the double, it's kind of hard to find that "sweet spot." I found that when riding on a flat, I would get to a point where it either felt too easy or too hard. I started using the big ring a lot more by the end of the ride, and once I got that down, I still felt like I couldn't sustain a good pace for awhile on a flat, because I was either spinning or struggling. My average was awful, even figuring in the wind and the big climbs.

[OakLeaf]

Maybe it's a different cassette you need, rather than a change in technique?

[Crankin]

Well, I don't think this is the problem. I have a 50-34 on the front and an 11-34 on the back. I just need to learn the half click thing.
Ok, this has taken me 10 minutes to type on my new I phone. T

[redrhodie]

I bet you'll get used to the shifting in no time. Your first ride report is very encouraging, especially that you feel better descending! That's great! You didn't mention having any trouble braking, so I'm guessing you're reaching the shifter levers comfortably? I also think once you get your preferred saddle on it, it will make a huge difference.

[OakLeaf]

An 11-34 is by definition full of big gaps.

What cassettes do you have on your other bikes?

Just for example, I'm not happy without a 16T cog. Doesn't matter what's in front - 53/42 on my old race bike, 50/39/30 on my C'dale - 15 to 17 in the back is just too big a jump for my legs.

If you figure out where the jump(s) is/are where you can't find a comfortable gear, you might be able to find a cassette with a similar range but smaller gaps where it counts - by going to SRAM which is Shimano compatible, or by giving up the 11 in favor of a 12T high gear, maybe. It's definitely harder nowadays with cassettes, than it used to be when you could buy the cogs individually and slap them on a freewheel. :(

[Crankin]

Oak, I get what you are saying, but, I do have the combination I need... it's just in a different place, if you understand that. It's when I am in the big ring, which I discovered near the end of my ride yesterday, when I was so tired from the 2,000 feet of climbing and the wind, and just wanting to get to the end. I discovered most of what I need is in the big ring :). I started my ride thinking I would mostly be in the small ring, but I was wrong. The big jumps come at the lower end of the cassette and if I need to use those when in the small ring (I did going up Oak Hill and Madigan Rd) it doesn't feel so big, it feels perfect! It's just practice
DH rode his Guru to work today and discovered a lot about the shifting and just how the bike feels. Although it's light, it's not as fast as the Kuota, but that's OK. By his ride home, his average was pretty near what it usually is. He had a compact on his Trek when they first came out and was impressed with the smoothness of the shifting compared to what he had. I probably won't ride again until Wednesday, possibly tomorrow. I want to work on the shifting, but not on that saddle!
Red, I can reach the brakes fine from the hoods. I can reach them from the drops, but according to the specs, they are about 5 mm further away than the Ultegra short reach ones I have on the Kuota. I can feel the difference, but this is the best I will get. I have to get my hands really far down into the curve of the drop. I guess it's not an issue because I still haven't got up the nerve to descend a curvy hill in the drops.
I am not overly concerned about the shifting; this is something that's been kind of intuitive for me from the beginning.
Muirenn, very funny. I live in the house where bikes have no names.

[Crankin]

Went for a short, second ride on the Guru today, taking advantage of the fact 4/14 of my clients are temporarily without their state sponsored health insurance (yea, they have to randomly re-qualify, no rhyme or reason), so I came home at 2:30. I didn't want to push it with the evil saddle.
I rode 12 miles. So, I got the half click, trimming thing down. I have come to find that like Oak said, I am missing the 16 on the cog. So, my goal is to get stronger and not tire out when I am in the big ring and the 17. If I use the 15, I am spinning, or at least it seems so. Didn't have my computer on the bike today, which was probably good. I thought I would switch it back and forth, but it's a whole process to reset when you change it, so I have another one ordered. I was on roads I know every bump on, so I went by feel. I think my speed was better than Sunday, but I just have to get the new muscle memory working.
More reason to keep going to those strength and core classes.

[tzvia]

Crankin-
Specialized makes reach adjustment wedges that I've been using on my 105 and Ultegra levers. They make it possible for me to reach the levers from the drops using the standard lever and make a big difference for me, I feel in control in the drops now.

[Crankin]

I already have the short reach levers and a short and shallow bar. It's just that they moved the reach back a couple of millimeters in the new model of the short reach levers. The brakes are reachable, but not as easily as on my other bike.
I have tried the shims on a different bike, before I got the short reach levers; I found they compromised the braking and they looked ugly, leaving a gap.
We shall see on all of this; I am going to pick up the bike at the shop today. I got my new saddle and computer, so I brought it there for them to deal with, because DH is away. Kind of stupid, since I have been really sick with bronchitis, it's been horrible weather, too. I thought I might ride this morning for an hour before I go see 2 clients, but as of now it's 32 degrees and there's black ice on the roads. There's snow on DH's car, which is in the driveway :eek:. Unfortunately, I will be working when the sun has warmed all of the ice away, and I still don't feel 100% anyway.
My goal is to ride Sunday afternoon. I'm just happy I have my saddle.

[Crankin]

Rode the Guru twice this week so far. First was a very slow (purposely) ride with DH as we are both recovering from bronchitis.
Yesterday I went out on my regular 16 mile loop. It was a gorgeous day and I felt fine, except for the fact I was overdressed (I unzipped a lot). My average was 14.3 on a loop that the last time I rode on my other bike was 16 :eek:.
I am not happy. DH is not happy I am complaining. I love the feel of the bike, but I feel like I can't go fast. I guess the geometry, which was purposefully made to be more relaxed, as we want to use these bikes for travel and "touring," is what is bugging me, as well as the different gearing. I will give myself a few points off for it being the end of the season, and being recently sick.
I guess I have to accept my weakness. Hopefully, going to core/weights class will help. No one else seems to have these issues. I truly felt like I did when I first started riding.

[redrhodie]

You've already mentioned feeling more in control on descents on the Guru. You can take it apart and travel with it. It's been made for those things. There are things you can do to make it faster, like lighter wheels, but why bother? Just remember it's not your fast bike, it's your comfortable bike, and not beat yourself up. When you want to go fast, ride your other bike.

And, try it on some different routes. You may see it's faster than the other bike on hilly rides, because of better descending.

[Crankin]

You said, essentially what DH said, in that this is not my fast bike. Except that this ride is hilly... my first mile and a half is all downhill, and I go slowly, no matter what here.
I am just pissed that others seem to be able to go fast on heavy bikes (although this bike is not heavy) and I feel like a weakling. That coupled with the very difficult weights and core stuff I'm doing is just making me feel frisking old.
I will be riding it tomorrow at 6:30 AM, so I guarantee it will be slow!