speed and cadence and quads, oh my!

[NaeNae]

Hello, I've been road cycling for about two months now, and I've seen improvements in my overall performance. However, my quads usually are quite tired after riding--not every day, but enough.

It seems to me that they shouldn't be so sore anymore. I asked my boyfriend about it, and he said that, observing me recently, my cadence is too slow. In fact, he said it seems to have gotten slower since I started using clipless pedals about two weeks ago (I disagree).

I don't know what my cadence is, but from using bikes at the gym, I'd guess average around 70-80? I know it's not as fast as my experienced cycling friends.

I feel like if I speed up my cadence, I'm going to lose speed (which I've been working on increasing). But I'm also getting tired of my tired quads! How do you find the balance?

[Owlie]

I find that if I spend my ride in too high a gear, I am in pain the next day. (Like I did yesterday. And now I'm paying for it.) Use lower gears than you're currently using. Yes, initially you'll pay a price in speed, but as your body gets used to the idea, you'll start picking your speed up again. Just keep riding. :)

[NaeNae]

Thanks, Owlie. Another problem I have, though, is that it seems that there is too large a difference between my big ring and my small ring! If I'm in a middle gear on my big ring and it feels too hard, so I switch to the middle gear on my smaller ring, it often feels way too easy! Is this normal, and like you said, I just have to get used to it? Thanks!

[westtexas]

I had the same problem too at first. I was mashing around in too high of gears and eventually you reach a point where you're pushing too hard but your heart and lungs can't keep up. I got a cycling computer that measures cadence and I started spinning faster in lower gears to build up my cardiovascular system. At first, my cadence was typically between 70-80 and now it's usually between 90-100 and I can push higher gears and go a lot faster than I used to. I rarely feel tired the next day.

At first when you start spinning more and mashing less, you feel ridiculous and out of control. But you adapt quickly and now it annoys me when my cadence falls below 80 - I shift down and spin more.

[westtexas]

Thanks, Owlie. Another problem I have, though, is that it seems that there is too large a difference between my big ring and my small ring! If I'm in a middle gear on my big ring and it feels too hard, so I switch to the middle gear on my smaller ring, it often feels way too easy! Is this normal, and like you said, I just have to get used to it? Thanks!

When you're just shooting for a minute adjustment in resistance, simply shift between the cogs on your rear wheel. I usually start in the small ring up front, but as my muscles warm up, I switch to the large ring. I rarely, if ever, switch back and forth between the two front rings, unless I'm climbing. All my gear shifting happens in the back, where you can really fine tune everything.

[Owlie]

What kind of bike are you riding?
The way I see it, the chainrings (the two or three big rings in front) aren't there for fine-tuning. They each have their own uses. Big ring is for going fast on flat ground (once your legs get there!) and descents, middle ring is all-purpose, and the small one is for climbing hills. You need to fine-tune using the gears in the back. Now, you'll probably feel like you're spinning too fast for the gear. Unless you feel a little jump at the top of each pedal stroke, you probably aren't. ;)

I will say, though, that 8-speed cassettes seem to have climbing gears and "zoom" gears, but not cruising gears.

[NaeNae]

It's a 2010 Jamis Ventura Sport. No middle ring; 8-speed cassette. I don't usually have a problem with climbing, and I can go pretty fast on flat ground. It's that dreaded head-wind that usually gets me with the difference between the two rings.

I never shift past the middle gear for either ring because I don't want to stress/stretch the chain (does that make sense?).

I feel like Goldilocks--that gear's too hard; that gear's too easy...

[Owlie]

Generally speaking, while I don't know the rules for double cranksets, you're not going to stress the chain unless you use the large ring and the large cog, or the small ring and the small cog. Feel free to use all but those two combinations. :)

[indysteel]

Your quad pain might have nothing to do with cadence or gear and everything to do with how your bike is set up. I find that if my saddle is too low and/or too far forward, my quads get overly tired. Have you had a fitting on your bike? How high is your saddle? Is it high enough that you have just a slight bend in your knee at the bottom of your pedal stroke? Can you sit on your saddle and just barely touch your toes, not touch your toes nearly at all or can you put your feet down? Is your saddle all the way forward, in the middle of the rails or set forward or behind center?

Of course, I could be wrong, but I think it's something to look in to.

[NaeNae]

Your quad pain might have nothing to do with cadence or gear and everything to do with how your bike is set up. I find that if my saddle is too low and/or too far forward, my quads get overly tired. Have you had a fitting on your bike? How high is your saddle? Is it high enough that you have just a slight bend in your knee at the bottom of your pedal stroke? Can you sit on your saddle and just barely touch your toes, not touch your toes nearly at all or can you put your feet down? Is your saddle all the way forward, in the middle of the rails or set forward or behind center?

Of course, I could be wrong, but I think it's something to look in to.

I think the height of my saddle is fine; slight bend in the knees and can barely touch toes when sitting. It looks like it is about 2/3 of the way forward.

My boyfriend, who used to work in a bike shop, "fitted" it for me. I'll ask him about the saddle possibly being too far forward.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

[indysteel]

Do you have long femurs? While my legs are short (really short), my femurs are relatively long. I have to put my saddle all the way back on the rails and use a seatpost with a lot of setback in order to get my knees far enough behind my bottom bracket to make my quads happy. I prefer to sit a bit farther back than conventional wisdom (knee over pedal spindle) would otherwise indicate. I get a lot more leverage behind the pedal that way.

If you do start playing around with your position, use some tape or permanent marker to indicate where you started from. If you move your saddle back, remember that it will effectively raise your saddle, too, such that you usually have to lower the saddle a tiny smidge to compensate.

[NaeNae]

Do you have long femurs? .

I don't think so...if anything, I think I have a long torso. I don't know how/if that would affect things. Again, thank you.

[indysteel]

I don't think so...if anything, I think I have a long torso. I don't know how/if that would affect things. Again, thank you.

I have a long waist and short legs, but my femurs are long relative to my leg length. That basically means that my saddle needs to go way back to put me in an optimal power position.

But in rereading your op, I see why you think your lower cadence is wearing your legs out. Forgot about speed and focus on efficiency by gradually increasing cadence. Who cares how fast you're going if you're wearing yourself out and sore after rides. As you get better conditioned and stronger, the speed will start to follow.

[jusdooit]

With regard to stretching your chain........don't worry about it. Chains stretch, you replace them, just be sure to measure it every so often so it can be changed in a timely manner. I have a compact double and use the full range of gears and got about 2,000 miles on my chain, about average I think. It is because of your lack of using all your gears that you're "Goldilocks." In general changing gears either up or down on your front chainring is equal to three small rings (cogs) in the back. I order to avoid the "goldilocks" effect you should shift through three cogs in the back in the opposite direction for a shift in the front. Meaning before shifting down in the front shift up in the back by 3, followed immediately by the front shift. I don't know what type of shifters you're using, but my Shimano STI's are designed to make this easier when moving to the big ring up front, as they allow me to sweep 3 gears with one large push with the right shifter. If I'm not making total sense maybe BF can help clarify.
Keep at it and don't be afraid to experiment with different gear combinations.

[jusdooit]

BTW your saddle may be too far back forcing your recruit your quads more than necessary. If you choose to move your sadlle do it in very small increments and ALWAYS measure it's current location first. That way if the new position doesn't work you can put it back to where you started.

[smilingcat]

sounds like most of your power is coming from the down stroke only. You should be pulling up on the up stroke and sweeping back at the bottom and pushing forward at the top of your pedaling stroke. Ask your BF about it.

When you learn to apply power on full circle, you'll find that things are lot easier and easier on your quads.

And if your quads feel sore after a ride, sit down and use a roller to massage out the built up lactate in your leg. This will help you recover faster. And feel better too!

You can buy a roller from a cycling shop and if you can't find it, you can always improvise.

[bluebug32]

Just read this article on cadence: http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Cycling-Cadence-101.htm?cmp=276&memberid=104135300&lyrisid=22913991

[skywalkerbeth]

Can I ask a stupid question?

What is spinning, versus mashing? Is spinning when you feel like you don't have much resistance?

Does high gear mean "harder" and low gear means "easier" or vice versa?

OK, two dumb questions...

[Hi Ho Silver]

Can I ask a stupid question?

What is spinning, versus mashing? Is spinning when you feel like you don't have much resistance?

Does high gear mean "harder" and low gear means "easier" or vice versa?

OK, two dumb questions...


Answers to your questions can be found at Sheldon Brown's old web site : http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears.html

[bluebug32]

Maybe it's just me, but when I ride hard (or mash gears or do a lot of hills or try to keep up with the fast group), my quads hurt! As long as it's the good kind of hurt, vs. pain from an injury, I think you're okay. Give them a good stretch afterward and use a foam roller or massage stick to loosen them up.

I would also play around with your position on the saddle. When you're pedaling in the drops or on the hoods, you tend to use your quads the most. Slide back on the saddle when you climb to engage your glutes/hams and to give your quads a break. Stand up and climb, slide to the nose of the saddle and see how that feels. Moving around will work the muscles more evenly and give your quads a break.

[Owlie]

I do get quad pain if my saddle's too low, but that's in a very specific place and I've learned to recognize it--outside of the leg, somewhere in the middle--and it goes away as soon as I get off and stretch. Quad pain from the wrong gear is very different and involves pretty much all of the muscles that make up the quadriceps. And it doesn't go away.

OP, do you use clipless pedals or straps/toe cages? Those can help give your quads a bit of a break. It's hard to pedal "properly" with just platforms (especially if they're the horrible slippery plastic kind) because you can't pull up, but you can utilize a motion similar to scraping mud off the bottom of your shoes to complete as much of the circle as you can.

[NaeNae]

As the original poster, thanks for all the insight, tips and suggestions. I went for a 33 mile ride today (personal longest) and really focused on keeping my cadence up and pedal stroke. I'm not messing with my saddle until my boyfriend gets a chance to look at it and help.

To answer a couple questions posted in the replies: I use clipless pedals, and while I have a computer, it doesn't measure cadence. Today, a couple times when I guessed I was at about 80 rpm, I counted each revolution for 15 seconds (using my watch) and multiplied by 4; my guess was right. So I have a comfortable cadence at about 80 rpm.

I resisted the temptation (mostly) to shift to a higher gear, especially on the flats. When I succumbed to the temptation, I could definitely feel myself falling below 80 rpm and, unsurprisingly, felt it a lot more in my quads.

I focused much, much more on pulling up on my pedal stroke and could feel it much more in my hamstrings (not a bad feel). When I felt my quads getting tired, I noticed that I had a) lost focus on pulling up and was relying on the downstroke too much, and/or b) was in too high a gear and was mashing at too low a cadence.

To conclude: So far, my legs feel GREAT after today's ride! Pedaling at a higher cadence did not seem to slow me down too much, but my speed may have been maintained at or near "typical" speed by pedaling more efficiently (esp. upstroke). I will continue to focus on these things and see if it continues to make a difference. Thanks again! :)