Hill Speed

[Katie0817]

Hello,

I'm Katie and I am new here. I have been cycling on and off for a few months now.I have gotten my average ride up to 24 miles but I am still HORRIBLE on hills. I have found that they don't wear me out quite as much but sometimes I am only averaging 4 mph up some. I am just wondering if I am really that much out of shape or if that is not bad considering? The grades are not that bad, maybe between 6% and beyond. What is everyone averaging? Am I really that bad? :confused:

[redrhodie]

That's great! Whatever speed you can get up this hill at is the perfect speed. If you can get to the top without puking, you're golden.

My motto is "rest on the hill". I always think it when I'm starting to huff and puff. Calms me right down.

[Owlie]

Don't worry about it. Speed depends on so many things, not just grade and your physical fitness. There are some hills I'm lucky to make it up, regardless of speed.

[RubyTuesday]

I watched my hill speed today, funny this subject would come up. I love this site. My average speed on a mediocre hill that was about .5 miles long was 8.5mps. Now if your hill was steeper than mine, then I could see how your speed may vary a lot from mine.

I think everyone is right. If you make it to the top and you can continue to ride with no problem, then that is the right speed.

I do wonder about standing your bike. I see a lot of people do it and I have tried. I find it exhausting. I do better gearing down and just going for it. Which way is right?

[nscrbug]

We don't have very many hills in my area, but of the ones that I do ride often I would say the average grade is around 4-6%...my speed is generally somewhere between 7-10mph...depending on how long the hill is. I'm not an efficient hill-climber...never was, never will be. If it were up to me, I would avoid hills...period. Unfortunately, the two other people I ride with happen to LOVE EM', so I often don't have a say in the matter. ;)

[KnottedYet]

I do wonder about standing your bike. I see a lot of people do it and I have tried. I find it exhausting. I do better gearing down and just going for it. Which way is right?

The way that gets you to the top of the hill.
:D

[jessmarimba]

Hills are always going to make you hurt. It's the nature of hills. Don't worry about your speed, because you'll always feel slow when you're chugging away. You got up the hill, didn't ya (one way or another)? There you go!

I will say that it helps me to remind myself to pedal in circles, rather than just mashing the pedals. Kind of eases up on my legs and gives me a little burst of speed when I've been just plodding along.

[marni]

As long as you aren't falling over like the old man on the trike on laugh in, your speed up a hill is just what it should be.

[Velocivixen]

I don't care for hills in general especially one particular short and very steep hill. However I climb about a 2 mile stretch with about a 6% grade when I ride to the Zoo, and this might sound strange, but as I'm pedaling there comes a point where I can actually relax my quads and, it seems, I actually use LESS effort to get up that hill! Maybe I tense up my quads at the beginning of the hill then relax them along the way. It seems counterintuitive to relax muscles that I am actively using, but it happens. I literally tell myself, "relax your legs" and that difficult pedaling immediately becomes less difficult. Not sure what all that means but it works for me. It's as though all that extra tension in my legs was simply wasted energy.

[grey]

I do wonder about standing your bike. I see a lot of people do it and I have tried. I find it exhausting. I do better gearing down and just going for it. Which way is right?

For me it depends on the hill, and how I am feeling right then. I actually like hills. Anyway, some I just sit there and work my way up, others it just feels good to stand up and get over it in a few strong strokes. I'm more likely to stand if it's been a longer hill/I need a change of position/the grade increases closer to the top.

It IS exhausting. I can't do it for a long climb or I may not make it up the next hill. :D

[new2ride]

I keep reinforcing with myself that hills are my friend (don't know that I'm thoroughly convinced yet). My average speed, depending on the hill can be anywhere between 5 mph up to 10 mph. Seems I hover around 6-7 mph, depending on the hill.

The weekend of July 30th, I encountered a hill that was the mother of all hills. It was probably about a 10% grade and it went on for over a mile. I was riding as a crew for the Susan G. Komen 3 day 60 mile walk. My bike was loaded down with gear for the 3 days and it was heavier than usual. There was no way I was going to make it up that hill. I ended up about a quarter of the way and had to stop. Of course, it was in the high 80s to low 90s and the heat index was somewhere around 105. I had no choice but to walk my bike up the rest of the hill. Sweat was literally pouring off of me. Walkers were having difficulty going up that hill and here I am, with a bike & extra gear on the bike, along with my camel pak, with extra stuff in it walking up that hill. I made it but I swear if the 3 day is on this side of town again next year, I am going to ride that hill somehow (even if I have to hold on to a car :D).

I read a few weeks ago on Team Estrogen that someone suggested "boobs to the tube." How appropriate for the 3 day and I kept repeating that saying to myself when climbing hills (except for the mother of all hills). I made it up everyone while chanting "boobs to the tubes."

[AnnB]

There is this one hill on my 16 mile route that's been a struggle all summer. I think it's probably 6-7% grade just shy of a 1/2 mile long. I've managed to go from 4mph to 5mph, not a big improvement, but a little bit. I chant, "I love hills" and alternatively "du hast mich" (cause the song has been stuck in my head lately).
Anyway, hills get better. Just keep working on them.

[MojoGrrl]

Depending on the hill, I've noticed I go anywhere from 4 to 10 mph, sometimes as low as 3. It sucks when you're trying to chug up a hill at 4 mph though and people go speeding past you...had that experience this past weekend on my century ride, but I had to remind myself that a lot of those guys were racers and were in much different condition than I. I mean, the Tour de France racers were going up some of those hills at 25 mph - no way are we going to be doing that anytime soon! Like everyone else said, as long as you get get up the hill you're good!

[Katie0817]

Thanks for all the good replies and awesome info! This does help a lot. It makes me feel great to be able to get to the top of the hill but I am so slow, lol. I can see I am improving but it hurts my averages a lot that I cannot stand to power up a hill like most people. I have had knee issues in the past and everytime I try and stand up on the bike, it shoots pain through my knees instantly. So I have to stay in the saddle and slolwly make my way up. I am aggravated with myself that I cannot stand to power up them. I have always enjoyed mountain biking more but the steep short hills always got me because of this. Now I am concentrating on the road instead.

[KatzPajamas]

I too have been working on the hills recentyl. I have lots of coaching from my hubby tho. I got up some pretty steep long hills and haven't had to stop yet. He calls it "walking" up the hill with the "granny gear". Longest hill has been about 1/2 mile but not sure what the grade is. Can go up at 8-10mph which just amazes me. I know it is the gear thing not me. Oh, the best part is going down. Most of my hills are short and steep on the back side. I freak out at about 27mph so at that point I really crank down on the brake levers. It is exhilarating to say the least!:D

[marni]

Thanks for all the good replies and awesome info! This does help a lot. It makes me feel great to be able to get to the top of the hill but I am so slow, lol. I can see I am improving but it hurts my averages a lot that I cannot stand to power up a hill like most people. I have had knee issues in the past and everytime I try and stand up on the bike, it shoots pain through my knees instantly. So I have to stay in the saddle and slolwly make my way up. I am aggravated with myself that I cannot stand to power up them. I have always enjoyed mountain biking more but the steep short hills always got me because of this. Now I am concentrating on the road instead.

Like you I have knee issues and tend to granny gear until I fall over through lack of momentum and then walk up. A couple of suggestions I would suggest are: since you have to remain seated, sit up straight and breath deeply, you are in an ideal position to do so. Work on developing some quad strength. This means more than squats in endless repetition, this means jump lunges, step ups, leg presses with weight , lunge walks and exercises to strengthen the hamstrings as well. I don't know if you ride with clips, but if you do, start focusing on pulling up with your feet rather than stomping down, also work on developing a circular pedal motion with no jerks.

These things will not only help you on hills, but in general on the bike for good form and smooth riding.

Incidentally the strongest hill climber I know is a slender 65 year old lady who used to be a ballet dancer who rides completely upright and as smooth as glass, with a cadence of 80-85 that never varies no matter what the terrain is. She just changes gears to accommodate, but she is a joy to watch, absolutely nothing moves but her legs in continuous smooth circles.

There is hope for all of us yet.

[Crankin]

I don't stand, either, for the same reasons. It slows mw down and it hurts. It took me years to be able to even get up out of the saddle. I *do* stand to stretch on long rides and I will stand on little, little rises. But on the long, steep type of climbs I did this week on my tour, I couldn't stand if I had to. My strategy (as well as my DH, who can climb and stand like crazy) is to choose a slow speed, stick to it, and keep a perfectly even, continuous cadence. That strategy has got me up the most difficult climbs, up to 22%. Personally, I don't care how fast I go up hills; I want to go up, not walk, and this works. While I can climb faster than a lot of people I ride with, I have to pace myself on long climbs.

[KatzPajamas]

Crankin~Perfect strategy! Did 31 miles today including several hills. Two were incredibly steep, one with a switchback. Eventually got to the granny gear and just focused on keeping the steady cadence. OMG! Still can't believe that I did it! Didn't ever feel the need to stand up either. I had to dig deep and did feel like puking as I got closer to the top. I have to admit, I had the hubby behind me cheering me on, which helped alot too. :cool:

[Crankin]

Know that puking feeling well. If DH hadn't been giving me encouragement last Monday, I would have fainted, fallen over, and possibly puked at the same time. And I've been riding for quite awhile...

[lawnchick22]

Got excited when I first read this thread's title..."Hill Speed"...I was thinking downhill...drats...well anyway, will share my thoughts.. Top speed downhill today on the Blue Ridge Brutal (75miler) was 54.2mph....wow, that was fun.

On the up hills, however, I find it helpful to alternate standing/sitting and concentrating on relaxing the quads and pulling more with the calves...all changes to muscle groups seem to help me.

[KatzPajamas]

I read a few weeks ago on Team Estrogen that someone suggested "boobs to the tube." How appropriate for the 3 day and I kept repeating that saying to myself when climbing hills (except for the mother of all hills). I made it up everyone while chanting "boobs to the tubes."


LMAO...How did I miss this the first time through?!?! I'm going to use this often, you can bet on that

[isadoralives]

I am new to cycling, and I live in an extremely hilly area. The only thing that gets me to the top is the joy of going down! I figure the mph on the decline makes up for my laborious inclines.

[Tiffany_S]

This is me (in the middle) climbing to the top of a climb known as Wildcat! It's 9/10ths of a mile long and I went up it at 3 mph, but I made it!
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/4740/dsc02000ut.jpg

[Sky King]

Great suggestions here but wanted to add, don't forget to breathe. One of my riding buddies hates hills a) she rides in to hard of a gear b)she doesn't breathe into her diaphragm. So in addition to using your gears, remember to breathe through your nose into your diaphragm, keep expanded. Don't be afraid to stick your belly out, think of all the Tour De France racers that look like they have a beer gut, that is air in their lungs as they climb. PS - same friend kicks by butt going downhill, we know we could be famous if we could combine my ability to climb with her ability to descend :)

[Hi Ho Silver]

Here's an article that might provide some help in getting up hills http://www2.bsn.de/Cycling/articles/Cycling_techniques.html

Aside from the above article, the only suggestion I can contribute is one I read about years ago: In rhythm with your pedaling, forcefully and completely exhale through the mouth - your body will automatically take care of inhalation (preferably through the nose).

[Catrin]

I hadn't heard the advice before to breath through the nose when climbing, I am not a strong climber myself. Is this more efficient than mouth-breathing? Of course, if we are doing that then we are likely panting (at least for me)...

[Hi Ho Silver]

I hadn't heard the advice before to breath through the nose when climbing, I am not a strong climber myself. Is this more efficient than mouth-breathing? Of course, if we are doing that then we are likely panting (at least for me)...

From what I've read on the web, nose breathing is the preferred method. But I have a book (Bicycling Science, from M.I.T. Press) that says

"Up to a breathing rate of 0.67 ml/sec (40 l/min), people tend to breathe through the nose ... Above this rate, the resistance to flow of even a healthy nose becomes penalizing, and mouth breathing is substituted. For a normally healthy individual riding on the level in still air on a lightweight bicycle, this limiting rate for nasal breathing is reached at about 14 mph."

That implies to me that really hard effort, like climbing a steep hill at a moderate speed, necessitates mouth breathing. I could be wrong though ...it has been known to happen :eek:

[Catrin]

From what I've read on the web, nose breathing is the preferred method. But I have a book (Bicycling Science, from M.I.T. Press) that says

"Up to a breathing rate of 0.67 ml/sec (40 l/min), people tend to breathe through the nose ... Above this rate, the resistance to flow of even a healthy nose becomes penalizing, and mouth breathing is substituted. For a normally healthy individual riding on the level in still air on a lightweight bicycle, this limiting rate for nasal breathing is reached at about 14 mph."

That implies to me that really hard effort, like climbing a steep hill at a moderate speed, necessitates mouth breathing. I could be wrong though ...it has been known to happen :eek:

Just good to know that it sounds like I at least get part of it right :cool: :D

[Katie0817]

A lot of good info here! Very good article on climbing techniques. I usually try to time out my shifting jsut right, shifting down just when I feel more resistance but not too soon where momentum is lost. More often, as the article says, I am sitting upright, butt back on saddle and hands on hoods using more quads. Sometimes I alternate a little in the drops because my muscles fatique on longer climbs and I can hit different muscle groups that way. I want to build my legs up more by doing some additional exercises like the squats/lounges but I need to find time to fit them in there. I am usually cycling 3 times a week, hiking twice a week, swimming once a week and try to take one day off. I figured the more cycling I do, the will naturally get better at it wihtout having to find time to fit in the exercises but I do wonder if that is the right approach. I have been trying to find time to fit in some core exercises as well. With the breathing, I usually inhale with both mouth and nose cause the hills are kicking my butt and I need the extra oxygen lol.

Tiffany - great job on the hill climbing. I know how it feels trying to stay upright at 3 - 4 mph!

[redrhodie]

I have a breathing tip. Make sure you exhale completely before inhaling. Get that last little bit out by pulling in the diaphragm, like "breath of fire" in yoga, you'll hear that puff at the end. This will let you make more room for air to come in on the next inhale, which you want to take in as slowly and fully as you can. If you're gasping, you're not getting enough in because the old air is still in there.

The other thing is to smile and relax every muscle you can. If it's not helping climb, it shouldn't be tense. If it's tense, it's taking energy away.

[Tiffany_S]

Tiffany - great job on the hill climbing. I know how it feels trying to stay upright at 3 - 4 mph!

Thanks Katie! :)

[Katie0817]

Hey Red - I'll try this on my next ride tomorrow. I hadn't thought of that before. I figured as long as I am getting air in, i'm cool lol. Thanks for the tip. :) I try pretty hard to loosen up and not stay tense. Usually if I feel my muscles tense I correct it pretty quick. Can't say that I am smiling though. I'll have to work on that one!

[featuretile]

Hills - that's where I usually get dropped on group rides. We have some really big ones - can go up to 15%. I have noticed that the club riders who pass me are either spinning faster than my bike allows, or they are standing (which I also do not do). So, today I bought a new 10-speed cassette with 11-36 and a mountain bike rear derailleur and it is being installed on my Ruby compact double.

I read in a cycling book that your cadence should not fall below 40 or you are pushing too hard. My bike computer has a cadence monitor and when I was going up the 15% hill (at least I wasn't walking this time), my cadence was about 30-35 (about 3 mph).

I also did a test ride. I rode my Ruby compact up the hill and then I rode my Bike Friday up the same hill. Bike Friday has lower gears. It was easier to get up on the Bike Friday - and I actually made it up faster.

The other thing that has been helping me is doing intervals on my bike trainer. There are two kinds. Easy gear alternating with fast easy gear, and easy gear alternating with hard gear. Now the 6% hills are easy. The new low gear I will be getting is only for the desperately long, unrelenting, steep hills, and there is at least one or two in every ride. I hope this works as my goal for the last 3 years (that's when I started riding) has been to keep up on the 'B' group rides. I am doing better. Most of the time, I can see the people in the distance, and today I actually arrived at the same time.

[jelee1311]

I'm not fast going uphill,I hate hills. I know doing them will make me a stonger rider. I'm not a skinny chick so even though I go fast on flats hills are tough. I do some yoga breathing when I do hills and that helps me relax and make it easier. Last year my husband(who is a champion hillclimber) taught me to not be afraid of the big hills ,breathe,and just keep spinning,no matter how slow.:) Red Hoodie I seem to remember you posted a link last year on a hillclimbing post that was great.

[AngelontheRoad]

I am moving for the summer to the mtns of western NC, and hope to cycle some. I currently live in W TN where everyting is pretty much flat. I was looking for this article you sent sometime back on hill climbing technique and shifting (i presume) and the web location is not available any longer. You wouldn't happen to have a more current web address for the article would you?

[kajero]

If I don't have to walk up then I say !!!YAY!!! Who cares about the speed!

[emily_in_nc]

If I don't have to walk up then I say !!!YAY!!! Who cares about the speed!

This is me! I was going 5 mph on a tough hill today in one of my easiest granny gears. But I made it. :D

[north woods gal]

The only person I impress when I make it up a tough hill at my age is me. Experience is the best teacher, though. Knowing how to judge a hill and use your gears and so on is a big plus.

[Crankin]

I pride myself on being to get up any hill. I don't care how slow I go. I did a 10 mile climb in Spain, at about 3-5 mph.
Only 2 hills have defeated me in the 15 years I have been cycling. Both were in the Berkshires, involving roads I had no idea of, in terms of how long and how steep. When I think of it, one was a ride recommended by our innkeeper and the other was one one a friend got from Ride With GPS, but he didn't really pay attention to the grades. Both had long, long climbs with 15-20% grades for parts. The first one, my DH dropped me and when I saw my friend walking, mentally I was done. We got to the top, got on our bikes, to find there was another long and steep climb, with another summit. I did that part. For me it's a lot psychological. If DH stays with me and talks me through it, I do a lot better. At times, I can do the self talk (I did this on another road in the Berkshires that was just painful). I am not sure how I would do in the west, where climbs are long and not quite as steep. Most of what I do are short and steep.

[north woods gal]

There have been some road hills that have defeated me, but as long as I have time to evaluate the hill and work the gears the way I need to get the job done, I'm usually okay. Not always, but not bad for an old gal.

It's mostly the off trail MTB hills that get me because they often appear so suddenly and unexpectedly, giving me no time to work into them. That, or I have to slow down to make sharp turns just prior to tackling the hill. That's when my leg strength just doesn't cut it, especially when I'm trying to keep up with the guys. They just power up over these sharp hills with me stalling out and falling behind. Kind of embarrassing. I love mountain biking, I really do, but I always come up short on the strength needed to do some of the gnarly technical stuff like bunny hopping, log crossing and so on. Anyone else in this boat or is it just me being a wuss?

[Crankin]

I am exactly like you in this regard, and basically it is why I sold my very nice mountain bike about 5 years ago. I knew I could never bunny hop or get over a big log, and I often ended up walking a lot. Part of it was skill and part was just being a wuss. I am not weak compared to other 62 year olds, but for the life of me, I could not figure out how to do this stuff and stay upright. I love being in the woods, so it was sad. I am getting a bit interested in gravel road riding (would have to travel for this) or even to ride some tamer trails, but that would require a new bike now. I may be getting a fat bike in the fall, so that would make me feel secure, although I would need something else for gravel riding.

[north woods gal]

Crankin, you can do very well on gravel roads with a road/touring/cross bike with 700x35 or 700x40 tires. You don't have to go MTB, again, unless you plan to do some very rough gravel roads. 700x35 or 40 is the typical tire width for gravel road racing bikes. I have such a bike in a Salsa Warbird that came with 700x35 tires and, to be honest, it takes a really deep sand or gravel trap to stop it. It will handle any of the gravel roads in our area that my larger tire bikes will do. Just need to be a bit more selective about picking a trail though the gravel.

Where the 700x35 drop bar bike shines, though, is as a pavement of any kind bike. I used a cyclocross bike with 700x35 tires for most of my commuting in my Chicago biking days, even for some riding in the snow. Those bigger tires did a much better job of handling some of those nasty Chicago streets than my 700x25 standard road bike.

As far as average speed on pavement, there is really very little difference between my Domane 700x25 and my Warbird 700x35. I like the option of taking a gravel road, now and then, so I ride the Warbird more than the Domane, plus the bigger 700x35 tires don't hurt as much with those darn road cracks.

[north woods gal]

As for the fat bike, there is no such thing as a gravel road that will stop one. You can definitely do gravel with a fat bike and do it in great comfort. I do it all the time. I actually ride my fat bike all year long, even out on pavement, though mostly on the unpaved shoulder along the pavement. (Definitely get some looks from motorists. :)) Those big lugged fat bike tires for snow or off trail riding will drive you nuts on a paved surface, though, and they sound like a tractor. The good news is that there are fat bike tires with shallower, less aggressive tread and I may opt for these for my summer fat bike riding. Would be ideal for gravel riding. Some of our local fat bike riders actually prefer these shallower tread tires for riding in the sand because they don't dig down in the sand as much as the heavy tread tires.

For sure, fat bikes are much more than bikes for riding in the snow. The only drawback for me is that these aren't really a good choice for doing a lot of miles at a decent speed. Ten miles on a fat bike is a real workout compared to a road bike. :)

[Crankin]

Yes, I agree with it all. I would really like a road/cross bike with wider tires AND a fat bike for snow and/or other stuff. It's not going to happen now, but probably within the next year.

[kernowcyclist]

I'd second the advice about breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth. I have my very first sportive this weekend, 35 miles over a hilly route and have joined a women's cycle club to learn the best way to tackle the 2700ft of elevation I'll face. I was told about the breathing thing, also sit well back in your saddle, it puts more power through your legs. Relax, use your mantra and a low gear and spin up the hill in your own sweet time. It works.... it's improved my climbing and I'm finding the more I do it the faster I get, almost without trying. I live in a hilly area and its great to face a hill and not be thinking ' OMG I'll never get up that'
Although there are a few steep 15-25% stinkers that await the time when I'm even stronger and can tackle them with confidence. Good luck!

[azfiddle]

Did anyone mention what I read here when I first started? "Smile on the hills". I have tried to do this and it helps- the explanation was that it helps you relax. Maybe it's a placebo effect, but I think it helps me.

As for being defeated by hills- I've really just had 3 or 4 that I couldn't finish by pedaling. One hill was ieast of Oakland California that on a ride with friends who live there. I made it slightly further the second time we rode it, but still just couldn't quite get to the top. Another time I got stopped was at Madera Canyon- riding on my touring bike with my panniers loaded up for a camping trip. I think it wasn't the grade but the fact that we didn't eat dinner and was bonking, but I walked for a while. (and it is steep- up to 10%). The other hill that really got me was in Ireland last summer. The directions mentioned "steep undulations" and suddenly, we descended into a little valley with a stream at the bottom. As we climbed out of the valley, I saw 15 or 16% on my Garmin and realized i was not going to be able to keep turning the pedals so I got off and walked to the top of the hill.

Kernowcyclist- 15-25% ??? For how long?

I can ride up hill for a long time (with rest stops) but I'm also super slow. I have gone up Mt. Lemmon twice already this year- climbing from 2500-8200 feet over 30 miles (with a flattish approach for 5 miles at the bottom, and some downhill near the top, but mostly climbing)... but it takes me about 5 hours. Only 1 1/2 hours coming down. So at 5-6% grades I go 5-7 mph. Slower when it gets steeper.

[Crankin]

This is why we should eventually meet up and ride together... sounds exactly like me. Though, I don't do well at elevation. Not sure how a ride up Mt.Lemmon would be for me. I used be sick every time I went to Flagstaff.

[azfiddle]

Crankin,
We have a guest room now that the kids are out of the house. You're welcome any time you want to escape the Massachusetts winter.

[rebeccaC]

Did anyone mention what I read here when I first started? "Smile on the hills". I have tried to do this and it helps- the explanation was that it helps you relax. Maybe it's a placebo effect, but I think it helps me.

actually smiling can exercise and relax facial muscles too :)....thinking it's also the thoughts that make the smile that can help in relaxing.

Having positive mental strategies, getting into a cadence and breathing flow, focusing on efficiency and being able to instinctually make the right shifts makes climbing easier for me. I like the challenge of a hard non-stop climb, especially ones with good mind/body/mechanical connections.
I can see stress and discomfort causing more problems from our view of them. I know how my body works well enough that I can redefine discomfort as my muscles working hard and a necessary aspect of exploring my potential. Things like concentrating on just the next mile and form and pace can divert my attention from a negative and get me focused on efficiency and positivity rather than stress and anxiety. Some rides can be psychologically harder than others. Having thought out mental strategies before a hard ride allows me to use them when first needed and take charge of what could be a negative and tell it that it won’t deter me.

……but then i also don't have a problem with stopping to stretch and drink some water if I just feel like it. :)

[Crankin]

AZ, we might take you up on that for a couple of days. We are thinking of a late winter/early spring (March, early March) trip to Phx, more specifically Cave Creek, for some riding and hiking, some visiting in Tempe, and then down to Tucson. I will keep you informed.

[azfiddle]

Crankin- that would be great!
I have two weeks off mid-March- March 11-24 to be specific - if your travel plans could work with that I would be "free" to ride etc. Keep me posted. You can send a message here or on facebook and I'll send you email / phone.

I hope it happens. We'll smile on the hills together!

[Crankin]

Hopefully, it will be under 90 degrees in mid March! Last time, we hiked in Cave Creek County Park around the 8-10th of March. It was in the upper 70s to low 80s, which isn't really hot, but we were coming from 30-50 degrees at home. It was still nice and cool at night, so that helped.
I have bad memories of my younger son's birthday parties in mid April. Always over 100 degrees. One year we had a gymnastics breakfast party in the backyard. The people came and set up the equipment at 7:30 AM, kids did the fun stuff from 8-9:00, and then we had them come inside for pancakes, cake, and presents in the AC, after that.

[north woods gal]

Had a similar thread going awhile back, but it's always a good topic to discuss.

On another thread, I mentioned that I do stand in the pedals, sometimes, even though I wasn't sure if it was considered the "correct" thing to do on a road bike. I was happy to hear that it was accepted practice. There is a knack to it and you do have to practice it a bit to gain strength, but if it hurts your knees, do NOT do it. It can put a huge amount of stress on the joint. (I mostly lock my knees and pedal with my thighs and hips.) Most of the time, I just work the gears and spin up hills, anyway. I mostly stand when I'm at the crest or taking on a small hill and don't want to mess with working the gears.


I don't worry about speed, either. Even when I'm down to 4 mph or so, it's still a lot faster than walking. (I am a slow walker.:))