Bug spray

[Catrin]

Going camping and am putting together what I need. I will be in the woods, so what is the best bug spray? Is "Deep Woods Off" a good choice or is there a better? I was going to ask which is the least toxic, but we ARE talking about bug repellent... I will be mountain biking and hiking. Pity the pool is now closed during the week :(

[OakLeaf]

Bite Blocker. (http://www.biteblocker.com/)

[TsPoet]

In all the studies where toxicity of DEET has been desperately looked for, nothing has been found. Believe me, people have tried.
And it works.
As of a few years ago, I couldn't find anything without DEET in it that worked. There were rumors of Skin so Soft that didn't pan out and other products. I'm not familiar with Bite blocker.
DEET doesn't kill insects, it repels them. (It repels my SO, too, he hates that smell).

However - just an FYI, my bottle of DEET (Off) which I had stored in the pocket of the back door of my car leaked all over the back of the car, so much that is seeped out onto my bumper where it destroyed the 3M shield - it didn't affect any of the other sorts of plastic it hit. Could have been some other solvent in the Off formulation, not the DEET, but whatever it was was nasty to my bumper.

[OakLeaf]

DEET is known to dissolve plastic. Including sunglasses, plastic fibers in clothing, tent fabric, probably all manner of stuff hanging off a bicycle... Good to know it doesn't dissolve ABS plastic, but still. Debate about its neurotoxicity aside, it reeks, it makes me choke, and it dissolves my stuff. (And dissolved plastics in DEET could be toxic to humans, whether or not the DEET itself is...)

Bite Blocker is tested as effective as I believe 7% DEET, which doesn't sound like much until you remember that higher concentrations of DEET do NOT protect *better,* they only protect *longer.* The concentrations of DEET are all about the half-life, nothing else. You will need to re-apply Bite Blocker about every 90 minutes, probably a bit more often if you're sweating.

I'm serious mosquito and fly bait. I do not work for the company. I use it. It works.

[indysteel]

Regardless of what you use, be sure to give yourself a good going over for ticks. The incidence of Lyme Disease in ***** County is nonexistent last I checked, but it would really suck to be the first case, especially since the County is known to have deer ticks.

[Catrin]

Regardless of what you use, be sure to give yourself a good going over for ticks. The incidence of Lyme Disease in ***** County is nonexistent last I checked, but it would really suck to be the first case, especially since the County is known to have deer ticks.


Yikes! I never think about this, guess I've just been lucky... Will see if I can get Bite Blocker in time, if not will just have to go with something else. Thanks!

[OakLeaf]

Will see if I can get Bite Blocker in time, if not will just have to go with something else.

If there's a Whole Foods near you, they should have it - locally-owned natural food stores often do.

+1 on checking yourself for ticks. I usually do it in/after the shower ... which may not be an option when camping ... do be careful!


(Also I have to know what the name of the county is that got auto-moderated! :D)

[TsPoet]

I did some quick checking:
Not as much known about bite blocker, which is my usual objection to this sort of thing, why on earth people think that "natural" or "herbal" means non-toxic is a complete mystery to me - and every other toxicologist in the world. This is actually a fairly complete summary document on what little is known. The NOEL is a little higher than DEET, but it hasn't been studied as much, it is also a NOEL (No observed (adverse) effect level) only for what has been decided to be the active ingredient. (Higher is better).
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/insect-mite/propetamphos-zetacyperm/undecanone/biteblk_mcl_0810.pdf
After this brief assessment, I wouldn’t worry about bite blocker, either. I personally prefer DEET because it’s the Devil that is known.
Ticks are huge here, I sit in the driveway and check my dogs over before we go in the house, then myself. I found 22 on the belly of my doxy-x once!

[Catrin]

Thanks TSPoet and Oakleaf, your information and suggestions are very much appreciated. I don't often seem to get bit, thankfully, but if I am going to spend that long in the woods I need to be smart. I would have NEVER thought about ticks if IndySteel hadn't mentioned it :eek: Lyme disease may not be common in that area, but why not make certain?

[OakLeaf]

why on earth people think that "natural" or "herbal" means non-toxic is a complete mystery to me

I think you're confusing something.

A substance that produces a gross physiological reaction as well as sensory aversion (choking, offensive smell) is something that your body is genetically programmed to treat as harmful. Whether it's natural or synthetic - DEET or dog poop.

That doesn't prove that it's harmful, but it should be enough to warrant more investigation.

Obviously it doesn't prove that things that smell nice and don't cause choking are safe, either ... but on that scale, I think it's safe to assume that synthetic substances that are specifically designed to be inoffensive are less likely to be safe than natural substances that don't immediately set off warning systems that the human body evolved while being exposed to those same substances over millennia.

I just don't want my clothes and eyeglasses melted. Why does that strike you as irrational?

And I can't stand the smell of DEET, or the feel of it on my skin. Literally can't stand it, never could, even when I was a teenager and thought nothing about safety. Dozens of mosquito bites, each of which leaves about a 6 cm welt on me and itches awfully for about two weeks, are more comfortable to me than DEET. Comfort may be irrational, but why isn't it a valid consideration?

[indysteel]

If there's a Whole Foods near you, they should have it - locally-owned natural food stores often do.

+1 on checking yourself for ticks. I usually do it in/after the shower ... which may not be an option when camping ... do be careful!


(Also I have to know what the name of the county is that got auto-moderated! :D)

I used stars to designate the county because Catrin had been encouraged in another thread about her trip to not give details as to when and where she'll be. I was just trying to respect her privacy.

[Crankin]

Since I live in prime tic country, I go for DEET, usually in the child proportions.
I am not a bug magnet (DH is) and I've used it for years. I try not to run or hike in the summer too much, but the allure of the trail is just too much at times.

[TsPoet]

I think you're confusing something.



Oak! I'm really sorry, you misunderstood me. My reaction was to their website, not to your posts! their website is full of the "It's natural" BS that drives me nuts.
The 'as effective as 7% DEET' is also from their studies - so I don't trust it at all. The fact that you've had good experiences with it holds a lot more weight for me ;)
As I said, my SO hates DEET, I think this might be a good alternate for him.
I like DEET it works for me (and it's also a great SO repellent if he's bugging me).
Sorry for the misunderstanding - friends?

[OakLeaf]

Sorry for the misunderstanding - friends?

:D You betcha. ;)

[tulip]

I hear that original Listerine makes a great mosquito repellent. Put it in a spray bottle. Never tried it myself, but my mother swears by it.

[Catrin]

I used stars to designate the county because Catrin had been encouraged in another thread about her trip to not give details as to when and where she'll be. I was just trying to respect her privacy.

I sometimes get overly comfortable here and post details I normally wouldn't on an open forum - so am just trying to get better. I don't mind being more specific after my return but...

[indysteel]

There are incidences of Lyme Disease in Marion County btw. That park you ride in all the time probably has deer ticks--since it has plenty o' deer. So, you do need to be aware of ticks, even on your weekday rides. Just an FYI that other animals carry deer ticks, too.

[NbyNW]

Look for Insect Shield clothing. Ex Officio has it, LL Bean too. There may be other brands.

Bugs love me, and I get big welts from mosquito bites. Hate wearing DEET. I got spooked one time when I wore DEET and was carrying an old hardcover book around, with a red cover, and the next thing I knew the red coating on the book was melting off the book and coating my arms. Being a book lover, I was more worried about the condition of the book.

I've got Insect Shield pants from Ex Officio. They convert to shorts. And I have a jacket, same company, in a light mesh fabric so it's not terribly uncomfortable in warm temperatures. Nice long sleeves with thumb holes in the arms, and a hood that I can pull tight around my face if the bugs are being extra aggressive. I live in this clothing when I camp. They make life better.

[goldfinch]

I am in part of the country where there is a lot of Lyme disease and now there is a new tick born illness in the area: http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/126725658.html. So, I use the proven DEET. Even though I stick with DEET it does look like eucalyptus oil may be a decent alternative, if you aren't sensitive to the oil. There is some research showing its effectiveness in repelling mosquitoes. I would really like to see some good research its use in repelling ticks as Lyme disease and other tick borne illness is such a growing problem.

[trickycoolj]

I'm a big fan of Off Family spray. It's a non-aerosol with a neon pink spray cap, contains DEET, and has a more pleasant floral smell. I get 3 inch welts (currently heeling one on my forehead!) so I wear this stuff anytime I'm in a buggy situation.

A few years ago hiking in the alps and doing other outdoor activities in Austria and Germany I was chewed up and spit out by the mosquitos that left 3 inch and bigger welts thanks to being a different type of mosquito than where I live. Another ingredient they use in the EU that that is an effective DEET alternative is Icardin. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icaridin) It doesn't melt plastics and has less odor. I can't say for sure whether I've seen this ingredient in the US, I haven't run out of Off yet. I believe Icardin helps repel tics as well since they are very prevalent in the Alps and are moving north into Germany. Freaked me out since tics are an afterthought in the wet PNW climate.

[chryss]

I live in Alaska now, so of course I have had an intense crash course in bug spray!

You've already told most of the points I'll reiterate, so they are:


Most brands don't map to ingredients. So there's Off with DEET and Off without DEET (dunno what they use). Cutters with DEET and Cutters with Picaridin (getting back to that in a bit).
DEET is a solvent. A really really nasty one. Apart from anything else -- I don't think harm to humans (compared to the harm you can take from insect bites, and again, I'm in Alaska...) is proven that well, and even if it is, I'm willing to take the risk. I am however not willing to have my gear dissolved!
I've been going fishing a lot this summer, sometimes in places thick with hungry mosquitoes. So here's my approach: Before going out spray those parts that will not touch anything else -- top of your head, legs from the knee down, back of the neck and shoulders, upper arms, chest -- with DEET-containing bug spray. You don't need anything like 100%. 20% OFF is fine. Then take a bottle of bug spray containing Picaridin. It'll work ok, keep the bugs mostly at bay and massively reduce the number of bites you get, but will have to be renewed every 30-60 min or so. Use that for hands, face, exposed flesh. I haven't found anything that works as well as Picaridin, except for DEET. Also, have a small bottle of Cutters (with Picaridin) in your pack at all times.
Wear a hat or cap. Spray it.
This doesn't cover ticks, sorry (we don't have them here, and I'm not up with that).
One of the greatest investments I made was in a Buff neck scarf with Insect Shield built-in. It worked GREAT... for the parts covered, that is, my neck and ears.
For road biking, you usually don't need it. For mountain biking, you do. I've had swarms of mosquitoes come down on me, even get into my helmet and bite my scalp to pieces, at a wooded stop or when breaking down on a mountain bike trail.


Here's a photo of me on a windy day in July on the Arctic North Slope:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/285233_10150255171117476_593707475_7905497_3029502_n.jpg

[OakLeaf]

Here's a photo of me on a windy day in July on the Arctic North Slope:

:eek: :eek: Holy @!%@, I'd heard they were aggressive up there, but I had no idea they were so BIG!!

I don't know about Alaska, but in Florida, 12-13 mph seems to be the fastest they will chase. Some road riders might have to take precautions, too. If you're doing a longer road ride and plan to stop for restroom breaks, you DEFINITELY do, even if your moving average is much higher.

[Catrin]

Well, I DID buy some "Deep Woods Off" - but did I remember to use it? NO... hopefully I will do better this weekend.

How DOES one check for ticks without another set of eyes to help? Obviously I can't see all of me...

Yikes those some huge dive bombers!

[OakLeaf]

How DOES one check for ticks without another set of eyes to help? Obviously I can't see all of me...

Mirror for your back, fingers for your scalp, neck and nether parts.

[indysteel]

OMG, Chris. That picture gives me the willies. I spent a very long afternoon/evening on an island near Juneau a few years ago. The mosquitoes were as thick as I've ever seen and whatever bug spray they offered at the lodge where we were only held them slightly at bay. I was with a friend and just watching them swarm around (and knowing they were swarming around me) was enough to send me indoors.

[chryss]

:eek: :eek: Holy @!%@, I'd heard they were aggressive up there, but I had no idea they were so BIG!!

Shhh, don't tell anyone, but the big ones are actually the easiest to deal with as they are slow. I was quite fine that day and hardly got bitten at all. The small ones here in the Interior are a lot harder to keep at bay (or photograph, for that matter).

As for cycling, we usually say if you're faster than 6 mph you're fine, but that isn't quite right as they can hold on to your socks and bite your ankles. But mostly as long as you're moving at bike speed and protect some key places you're fine even in thick mosquito land.

[Catrin]

Reminds me of one of my mountain bike rides last week. I was at the bottom, close to water, and apparently I was moving at just the right speed to present a good roving buffet target :o I am quite slow on the mountain bike, but this is an incentive to get a little faster!