New (comfortable) "race" bike, Madone 4.7, Specialized Amira

[Susi]

I am new to road bikes, and I am preparing for my first triathlon right now. I have about $2700 for a new bike and I test rode the Madone 4.7, Specialized Amira and Ruby, Cannondale Synapse. They all felt good, but I think I liked the Madone the best. The Synapse and Ruby might be a little too upright for me, since I want to do more "racing", as opposed to long endurance rides. Do you guys think the Madone 4.7 is a good "race" bike? I am more in an upright position on it, compared to the Amira... Is there a way to make certain adjustments to the Madone to make it a "better" race bike. I haven't heard too much about the Amira, and one review I read was actually quite bad, so I am a little worried that the Amira might not be a good buy (although I liked it!) Should I maybe try the SuperSix as well?

I am about 5'2.5, 108 lbs, and according to the LBS have a long torso (compared to my short legs :rolleyes:)

[nscrbug]

The Supersix would definitely fall into the "race" category...it's much more aggressive in geometry compared to the Synapse. You may also want to consider a Cervelo S1 or S2. They are "aero" road bikes and more geared towards triathlon and racing. Infact, the S-series come with a dual-position seat post that can be interchanged to a roadbike position or a tri position. Just something else to consider. The Madone comes in 3 fits - H1, H2, & H3. All of the stock WSD Madones come in the H3 fit, which is their most upright and relaxed fit. Most of the stock unisex Madones, are in the H2 fit...which is in the middle...not too racy, not too upright. I believe the H1 fit, which is their most racy and aggressive fit, is only available as a Project One build. So, unless you're planning on doing a Project One Madone, in which you can specify which fit you want...you will end up with either the H2 or H3 depending on if you go with WSD version or not. They explain the 3 different fits on the Trek website...worth a look if you want more info.

[zoom-zoom]

Should I maybe try the SuperSix as well?

I am about 5'2.5, 108 lbs, and according to the LBS have a long torso (compared to my short legs :rolleyes:)

Do it!!! I'm 5'3.5" and all torso. I love my SuperSix. I'm on the smallest men's size (48cm...which is comparable to 50cm with a lot of other manufacturers) with a 100mm stem. You may be comfier with an 80-90mm stem, depending upon just how long your torso is. I forget my torso measurement, but my crotch-to-floor inseam is 30".

I came from a women's Synapse...the reach was too short and too upright. I am so much happier on my Synapse. Helps that the carbon really dulls the road vibration, too. That aluminum Synapse was murder on all our chip-sealed roads.

If the men's is too big there is also a 44cm women's model that would still likely fit you more comfortably than the equivalent women's Synapse.

[Susi]

I will take a look at the SuperSix and Cervelo this week! Unfortunately the only Cervelo model in my price range would be the RS...
I have to get a WSD because of my hight. So if I would go with the Madone, I'll get an H3 fit. The H2 and H1 are out of my price range as well, and I am too short for the unisex/men models :(

[zoom-zoom]

I seem to recall that Cannondale's WSD models aren't really all that different in geometry from the men's...mostly they will use shorter-reach shifters and different saddles. So the women's 44cm SuperSix may be a really good fit for you, since the top tube/reach is quite a bit longer than the Synapse...which is awesome for us long-middled types.

Would you be looking at the Rival 4 package? I really like mine. I'm pretty much sold on SRAM.

[Susi]

Do it!!! I'm 5'3.5" and all torso. I love my SuperSix. I'm on the smallest men's size (48cm...which is comparable to 50cm with a lot of other manufacturers) with a 100mm stem. You may be comfier with an 80-90mm stem, depending upon just how long your torso is. I forget my torso measurement, but my crotch-to-floor inseam is 30".

I came from a women's Synapse...the reach was too short and too upright. I am so much happier on my Synapse. Helps that the carbon really dulls the road vibration, too. That aluminum Synapse was murder on all our chip-sealed roads.

If the men's is too big there is also a 44cm women's model that would still likely fit you more comfortably than the equivalent women's Synapse.
I tried the 48 women's synapse and it fit perfectly. The 44 was a little too small... Do you think for a "longer" torso, the 48cm men model would actually be better than the women's model?

[zoom-zoom]

I tried the 48 women's synapse and it fit perfectly. The 44 was a little too small... Do you think for a "longer" torso, the 48cm men model would actually be better than the women's model?

Boy, it's tough to say. But if the 48 Synapse fit, then I'd think either the men's or women's 48 SuperSix would work. I just noticed there are no SRAM options on the women's models, either...which is sorta lame on Cannondale's part. Perhaps there's just not enough market to offer the same # of packages.

I definitely liked the colors on the guy's frames, too...but I'm sorta partial to orange. :D

[Susi]

I seem to recall that Cannondale's WSD models aren't really all that different in geometry from the men's...mostly they will use shorter-reach shifters and different saddles. So the women's 44cm SuperSix may be a really good fit for you, since the top tube/reach is quite a bit longer than the Synapse...which is awesome for us long-middled types.

Would you be looking at the Rival 4 package? I really like mine. I'm pretty much sold on SRAM.

IF the smallest men model will work for me (which I doubt, being 5'2.5, but I'll try it tomorrow!!), I would definitely go with the Rival 4. Besides that, the bike looks AMAZING in orange!! :D

[zoom-zoom]

IF the smallest men model will work for me (which I doubt, being 5'2.5, but I'll try it tomorrow!!), I would definitely go with the Rival 4. Besides that, the bike looks AMAZING in orange!! :D

It really does! :D And if you can get something in-stock right now you'll likely score a deal...I know my bike has been marked-down at our LBS. The trick is that a lot of shops don't carry the smaller sizes in-stock...especially not in the men's frames.

[Susi]

Any input on the CAAD10? I just looked at the Cannondale Website, and the Supersix and CAAD10 seem to have the exact same geometry... Obviously one is carbon, one aluminum. Any thoughts on the differences here?? The CAAD10 is quite a bit cheaper too. Is is really worth it to pay the extra bucks on carbon?

[zoom-zoom]

What are your roads like? If they are mostly smooth, well-maintained asphalt I'd go with the CAAD...but if they're rougher (like chip-seal), then the carbon is well worth the money. A friend of mine had a CAAD9 and is now on a custom titanium Seven CX bike...she merely swaps out different wheels/tires for road or off-road riding. The titanium really dampens the road buzz. Pretty much anything is better than aluminum for vibration dampening.

[Susi]

Hmm, the roads here are pretty good but my husband is in the military and we don't know where we're gonna end up in the future... :o Does my weight (max 110 lbs) make a significant difference whether it's better to go with a carbon or aluminum?

[zoom-zoom]

Hmmm...I don't know how much bearing a person's weight has on comfort relative to frame material. I know that sometimes weight at the other end of the spectrum can make some materials more suitable than others in terms of strength, but that's obviously not the issue you'd have.

[Susi]

I can't find a 48 SuperSix in town... However, one LBS just got some new 2012 in today (and they looks awesome!), and they said they might get a 48 within the next couple of days. So, I keep my fingers crossed, since I would really like to give the SuperSix a try.

I also went back to the Trek Store, and they said they can make a Madone 4.7 "racier" and more aggressive, by changing the stem length, handle bars, saddle, etc. Is that true? Can you really change the way you sit on a bike that "easily"? I'm not sure if I like the Trek guy - he seems kinda pushy and I can tell he wants me to get a Trek. The other LBS are more understanding of the fact that I shop around for the best fit. The Trek guy makes it sounds like "we can just change the Madone to your preferred fit"... :confused:

[Owlie]

I also went back to the Trek Store, and they said they can make a Madone 4.7 "racier" and more aggressive, by changing the stem length, handle bars, saddle, etc. Is that true? Can you really change the way you sit on a bike that "easily"? I'm not sure if I like the Trek guy - he seems kinda pushy and I can tell he wants me to get a Trek. The other LBS are more understanding of the fact that I shop around for the best fit. The Trek guy makes it sounds like "we can just change the Madone to your preferred fit"... :confused:

To some degree, yes. A new stem, a seatpost with a different setback, and a variety of other tweaks can make a difference. How much of a difference it makes depends.

[zoom-zoom]

To some degree, yes. A new stem, a seatpost with a different setback, and a variety of other tweaks can make a difference. How much of a difference it makes depends.

Yup. But it's always better to have the geometry that meets your needs/wants, THEN make minor tweaks. It's one reason I "upgraded" to the SuperSix after a year on the Synapse. The Synapse was a nice bike, but it was more relaxed/upright than what I quickly discovered I really wanted...and the aluminum was killing me on our roads...and I wasn't thrilled with Shimano and wanted to change over to SRAM. So it made sense to start over from scratch.

We have a shop near us that is big and impersonal and very aggressive. Then we have OUR LBS an hour away...we go there and eat cookies and hang out. No pressure. Perhaps I'd prefer a Trek or Specialized or Giant...but those aren't brands our LBS carries. That relationship with a great shop is (in my mind) perhaps AS important as the perfect frame. 'Cause the great shop will help you make those tweaks, not just desperately get you on whatever they have in stock and push you out the door. It's all about service after the sale. :)

[Owlie]

Yup. But it's always better to have the geometry that meets your needs/wants, THEN make minor tweaks. It's one reason I "upgraded" to the SuperSix after a year on the Synapse. The Synapse was a nice bike, but it was more relaxed/upright than what I quickly discovered I really wanted...and the aluminum was killing me on our roads...and I wasn't thrilled with Shimano and wanted to change over to SRAM. So it made sense to start over from scratch.

We have a shop near us that is big and impersonal and very aggressive. Then we have OUR LBS an hour away...we go there and eat cookies and hang out. No pressure. Perhaps I'd prefer a Trek or Specialized or Giant...but those aren't brands our LBS carries. That relationship with a great shop is (in my mind) perhaps AS important as the perfect frame. 'Cause the great shop will help you make those tweaks, not just desperately get you on whatever they have in stock and push you out the door. It's all about service after the sale. :)

I agree completely. OP, I'd exhaust your other options and leave the Trek unless nothing else works.

[Susi]

I looked at the Cervelo RS today but my LBS said even the smallest RS will be too big for me. (My legs are quite short, I guess:o)

I hope I get a chance to try out the SuperSix, and it'll probably come done to either that or the Amira...

[zoom-zoom]

I looked at the Cervelo RS today but my LBS said even the smallest RS will be too big for me. (My legs are quite short, I guess:o)

Darn, that's a bummer. I had been thinking that maybe my N+1 bike should be a Cervelo, too (my LBS also carries Cervelo). But if your legs are too short, then mine probably are, as well.

[Veronica]

Darn, that's a bummer. I had been thinking that maybe my N+1 bike should be a Cervelo, too (my LBS also carries Cervelo). But if your legs are too short, then mine probably are, as well.

It might still work for you. I'm just under 5'5" and ride a 51 Cervelo S3. Love that bike! It is fast.


Veronica

[Susi]

My inseam was measured today, and they said it's 73.5 cm... I just checked out the specs for the 48 SuperSix, and the standover is 74cm. Does that mean I can't even go with the 48?? There's no way ANY LBS will carry the 44 SuperSix. (I would have to order it and would be required to buy it then. I'm afraid that the 44 will be too small. I tried a Cannondale Synapse 44 and it felt too cramped)

The standover height for the smallest Cervelo RS (with 650 wheels) is 73.2 cm... That IS in deed to big, right?

Based on those measurements, maybe I will HAVE to go with the Amira or Madone... They look like the perfect bikes for me.

[zoom-zoom]

My inseam was measured today, and they said it's 73.5 cm... I just checked out the specs for the 48 SuperSix, and the standover is 74cm. Does that mean I can't even go with the 48?? There's no way ANY LBS will carry the 44 SuperSix. (I would have to order it and would be required to buy it then. I'm afraid that the 44 will be too small. I tried a Cannondale Synapse 44 and it felt too cramped)

Maybe not. My 48cm Synapse was noticeably shorter-reach than my 48cm SuperSix. I think I almost would have been comfier on a larger Synapse. So the 44cm might really be perfect (I looked at the geometry and the women's SuperSix has a half cm longer top tube than the Synapse, plus I think the seat angle would have you angled back a bit more, IIRC). The only downside is that you would be limited to a women's frame and not have the choice of any groups other than Shimano. But that's still a sweet ride.

[zoom-zoom]

I should add that I never actually rode either of my bikes before ordering. I really trust my fitter, though. Are you sure that you will be required to purchase a bike if they order it?

[Owlie]

I understand your pain--I take a bike size (52-54cm WSD) that LBSes tend not to stock. Could you ask the shop to contact the area representative from the company to see if they have one they could borrow? My LBS offered to do that for me.

[Susi]

I just compared the 44 SuperSix with the Specialized Amira 48 (which fits perfectly!)

The measurements are almost identical (with some millimeters difference here and there)… The only “significant” difference is the head-tube angle: Amira 71.25 degree vs. SuperSix 70.5 (same as Madone) – what does this small difference mean??

The Amira’s top tube is almost 1cm longer than the Madone’s. Does that mean the Amira puts me in a more aggressive position (especially with a longer torso)?

Sorry for all the questions, but I just want to find the right bike for me, and I just can’t tell by riding with it in the parking lot…

I asked my LBS if they can get a small size for me, but they say I would HAVE to purchase it, because they usually don't have any demand for the small sizes :(

[Owlie]

The Amira's a racing bike. The Madone (H3?) is designed to be slightly more relaxed. For what you want to do, I'd be looking at the Amira more than the Madone, especially if you say it fits perfectly.

Those tiny differences can make a lot of difference in comfort. Unless you've got a fantastic fitter, the only way to really know is to ride them.
And yes, I have this problem with some shops. Not a lot of demand for a 54cm WSD bike, apparently. I'm not going to buy something without trying it out, but if I have to buy it to try it out, no thanks!

[zoom-zoom]

I just asked my hubby how much difference the angle measurements would make ('cause he's an Engineer and I suck at Math). He said really those bikes are so similar that you'd probably not notice a huge difference either way...and to go with the shop that treats you best. Truly, as long as you are on the right size a good shop can do all sorts of tweaks to dial-in your fit. They'll measure you and put the appropriate length stem on, maybe swap out some head spacers, move the saddle up and down, fore and aft, etc. And most good shops will continue to do minor tweaks as-needed for a few months after you buy your bike--I know mine has done this. I started with an 80mm stem and moved to a 100mm stem after a few rides. No charge. I think the 2nd stem was even a grade better than the original stem.

[Susi]

I just asked my hubby how much difference the angle measurements would make ('cause he's an Engineer and I suck at Math). He said really those bikes are so similar that you'd probably not notice a huge difference either way...and to go with the shop that treats you best. Truly, as long as you are on the right size a good shop can do all sorts of tweaks to dial-in your fit. They'll measure you and put the appropriate length stem on, maybe swap out some head spacers, move the saddle up and down, fore and aft, etc. And most good shops will continue to do minor tweaks as-needed for a few months after you buy your bike--I know mine has done this. I started with an 80mm stem and moved to a 100mm stem after a few rides. No charge. I think the 2nd stem was even a grade better than the original stem.

We have a bike store 1 hour away (in Austin), which has both Trek and Specialized :) I was there yesterday and test rode the Amira and Madone. The guy I talked to was leaning towards the Amira (because he has a Specialized himself)... Overall it is a great store with awesome reviews... Maybe I have to go there again and have the guys take some pictures with me on the bikes so I have a comparison. Like I said, they both felt great (in the parking lot:p)

The smallest Madone 4.7 men model has a H2 fit, and 70.7 standover height (shorter than Amira 48). Maybe I should try that?! (It'll come with a longer top tube and might put me in the right "racing" position?)

On a side note: the 2011 Madone 4.7 is blue - blue is NOT my color at all... Besides that, it'll take another 2-3 months to get a new 2012 Madone (and I don't even know the available colors yet). I would prefer riding my bike ASAP though. So maybe I'll have to go with my gut feeling and order a 2012 Amira :rolleyes:

[zoom-zoom]

Ooh, that's a great idea to have them take photos. It's really helpful to be able to see how you look on a bike (shops should have big full-wall mirrors, perhaps...?). Sometimes how you feel on a bike and what you look like are 2 different things.

[Susi]

I tried the Amira again today, (in 48 and 51) and the my LBS guys took a lot of time to make some adjustments to get me in a more aggressive position. Overall it felt really good, and I would even get the 2011 model 300-400 bucks cheaper. But, why does it have to be BLUE?? I am not a blue person, whatsoever... I know it's really bad to choose (or not choose) a bike based on its color, but if I spend so much money on a new bike, I really want to look at it and start drooling :D
They were kind enough to order me the 49 Tarmac, and that is one sexy looking bike!! (black with red) It's the 2011 model, and I would get it cheaper as well... Since my torso is "longer", it might actually fit better, with less adjustments, than the Amira. It's gonna be in next week.
The only thing that worries me is that the seat tube length will be 1cm longer on the Tarmac, and the saddle is already pretty far down on the Amira...

If the Tarmac won't work, I will most likely go ahead and order a 2012 Amira. It still has blue in it, but the majority of the bike is carbon black with some white... It's gonna be worth it to me to pay 300 bucks extra to avoid a completely blue bike.

[Mako]

Darn, that's a bummer. I had been thinking that maybe my N+1 bike should be a Cervelo, too (my LBS also carries Cervelo). But if your legs are too short, then mine probably are, as well.

zoom zoom - Sorry to but in - just to say don't rule out a Cervelo, I ride a 48 S1 and I'm only 5'3, I don't know my exact measurements :confused: but I'd say my legs are pretty short

When I upgrade I'll probably go for an R3, perhaps look at those the geometry is different between the R3 and RS....

[Susi]

Here is a picture on the Amira. What do you guys think? They said they would lower the front a bit, to get me into a "racier" position... I tried the Tarmac- overall too big. Now, I'll have to decide between the Amira and the Synapse :confused:

[Susi]

Could someone give me some advice on these two models: Synapse 5 vs 6. Is it worth to pay the extra 500 bucks for the 105 components (vs. Apex)?
http://road-bikes.findthebest.com/compare/67-239/2011-Cannondale-Synapse-Carbon-6-APEX-vs-2011-Cannondale-Synapse-Carbon-5-105

[brigada]

Oops, I didn't even realize how old this thread was before replying!