Question from Hubby:

[abejita]

Hubs announced last night that he had a question for all the ladies of TE...he said he wanted to ask you because you know everything and they would just make fun of him on the bike forum!

After every weekend ride, he just completely collapses. It is not just that he is tired, he is totally done. He falls asleep mid sentence talking to me. He is in very good shape, runs about 15-20 miles a week and rides about 150-200 miles. At first, I thought it was because he was riding too hard with the boys, but he is in the same condition when we ride together. I will eat lunch, rest for maybe 30 min and be ready to do whatever else I am doing that day...he is permanently attached to the sofa. I suspect it has to do with what he is eating (or not eating) during his rides. For a 3hr 60 miles ride, he will have 2 bottles of homemade gatorade, 3 bottles of water, a banana and a pb&j sandwich. I think he needs to eat more because this is the same amount that I eat. He weighs about 180 and I weigh 120. It has also been really hot lately, starting in the 80's and finishing up near 100, although his crashing problem isn't new.

Any suggestions?

[zoom-zoom]

I suspect calories, too. When I run and am hungry I'm very aware of it. On the bike hunger sneaks up on me. I definitely find that there are times when I start feeling spacey and tired...having a snack can totally turn me around.

Encourage him to get in some more calories, particularly in the form of protein. I definitely feel better if I have a bit of beef jerky or a nutrition bar with a decent amount of protein.

[OakLeaf]

(1) What does he eat before and after a ride?

(2) How much sleep is he getting?

I'd suspect one or both of those. It doesn't sound to me like what he's getting on the bike is completely inadequate (depending on the sandwich of course - thickness of bread slices, sugared vs. natural PB, amount of spreads etc), but if he's starting on "E," that could be a problem.

And you read so much lately about the importance of adequate sleep, but it's still hard sometimes to go to bed when you need to, when there are so many things tempting us to stay up later.

[abejita]

The sandwich ends up being about 300 calories, 7.5 fat, 40 carbs, 17 protein. We use a sprouted grain bread that is higher in fiber and protein and Naturally More Peanut butter (http://www.naturallymore.com/), which is also higher in fiber and protein. For breakfast, I think he usually has a bagel sandwich with an egg and ham. He stays away from dairy because it doesn't sit well with him during exercise. Sleep could definitely be a factor. He also eats as soon as he gets back from his ride.

[ny biker]

It takes longer for you to digest protein than carbs, and also I think it takes longer to digest high-fiber carbs. So that sandwich is probably taking a while to get into his bloodstream.

[Owlie]

I second Oak's post. It's really easy for me personally to not get enough on the bike and afterward--I need protein, a mixture of complex and simple carbs, and caffeine after a ride. DBF eats pretty much everything that isn't nailed down after a ride. (Okay, I do too, but I at least leave a few things!)

Sleep is the other thing--it's not so bad now that I'm used to going out around midday, but when I get up at some unreasonable hour to ride, I will manage to fall asleep sitting up. I have a hard time making myself go to bed early. Total nightowl here.

[Dogmama]

Maybe he's just a wuss :D

Seriously, I think a PB&J may not be enough. The fat & fiber will slow down the uptake of glucose in his muscles. I'd opt for a couple of bananas and maybe a sports drink. You said "home made gatorade" - what is in it?

[abejita]

We use a recipe from Nancy clark's book...let me see if I can remember it, hubs usually makes it for us...

1/2 Cup orange juice
1/4 C lemon juice
1/2 C sugar
1 tsp sea salt

Heat the oj and about 1 cup of water in the micro and dissolve the sugar and salt in it. Add lemon juice and then add the whole mixture to a quart container and fill it with water.

I like it much better than pre-made electrolyte drinks. sometimes i cut it with a little bit extra water.

btw, hubs said he would have no problems with the suggestions to eat more :D and he said that if he had asked this question on the bike forum they would have just said that he was too fat for cycling. He is not, but he certainly doesn't have the stereo typical cycling frame...more of a baseball player frame.

[abejita]

Maybe he's just a wuss :D

Seriously, I think a PB&J may not be enough. The fat & fiber will slow down the uptake of glucose in his muscles. I'd opt for a couple of bananas and maybe a sports drink. You said "home made gatorade" - what is in it?

I've suggested that he is just a wuss, but he is not buying that, LOL!

[7rider]

It sucks getting old, don't it??

;)

My own DH after a hard ride, is completely useless for the rest of the day.
"C'mon hon. The weeds are taller than the flowers in the garden. We got to do the yard work."
Nope.
"C'mon hon. We need groceries."
Nope.
"Hon...there's a mountain of dirty laundry that needs to be done."
Nope.
Not even a response for -
"Hey, hon. Let's do a multisport day and take the kayaks out."
Not movin'. :rolleyes:

[abejita]

This sounds like the conversation that goes on in my house...I am really asking for my own benefit and help with all the weekend chores, LOL!

[smilingcat]

I think the problem is PB&J (aka mud and blood sandwitch). Jam probably has lot of simple sugar that will spike his insulin level about 5 to 10 minutes after eating it. Then all that insulin will work to metabolize the sugar but no new sugar is coming into the blood stream and his glucose level in his bloodstream crashes. So when he comes home basically he has bonked. Your brain can only run on glucose not on fat or anything else and the lack of glucose is causing his brain to want to sleep.

Suggest he snack on boiled potato instead and graze during a ride instead of eating ton of sugar all at once. See if he still does the same thing.

I've been warned many times over about the "danger" of eating high sugar food during a road event. If you know you have a sprint finish, load up on simple sugar about 5 minutes before the finish. That is what I've been told.

[WindingRoad]

Might be time to get his iron checked

[zoom-zoom]

Might be time to get his iron checked

THAT's a good suggestion...as women anemia isn't uncommon. I've dealt with it a few times and know how debilitating it can be. While it's less common for guys, I know a couple of male endurance athletes who have been anemic. Definitely something to have checked.

smilingcat is right about the simple sugars, too. Anyone who tends towards hypoglycemia will suffer from blood sugar rollercoasters even moreso.

[goldfinch]

Other possibilities include not taking enough rest time. He exercises a lot. What is his rest schedule?

He keep track of his heart rate? Is he within 60 to 90% of his max or is he pushing too hard?

Is he sure he isn't dehydrated? The check is weighing naked before ride and weighing naked after to see how much water weight is lost.

[WindingRoad]

He is averaging about 4 miles of running per day for a seven day week and around 30ish miles everyday riding. Not to mention it's been super hot. I was told the rule of thumb for gauging water is half your body weight in ounces. That is for those not exercising at all. So if he is 180 lbs the base line amount for everyday function would 90 ounces. Since each water bottle is about 24ish ounces and he's drinking 3 of these for a more than 3 hour ride that is only 72 oz of fluid for running, cycling and what he needs for normal metabolic processes. Unless he is drinking like mad afterwards, he is grossly dehydrating himself.

[abejita]

THAT's a good suggestion...as women anemia isn't uncommon. I've dealt with it a few times and know how debilitating it can be. While it's less common for guys, I know a couple of male endurance athletes who have been anemic. Definitely something to have checked.

smilingcat is right about the simple sugars, too. Anyone who tends towards hypoglycemia will suffer from blood sugar rollercoasters even moreso.

We can rule low iron out as he just had his yearly blood work and all his levels look good.

The hypoglycemia is an interesting angle...his dad has diabetes.

[Dogmama]

He is averaging about 4 miles of running per day for a seven day week and around 30ish miles everyday riding. Not to mention it's been super hot.

That's a lot! How old is he? Maybe he's beginning to become overtrained? Or, as I said before, maybe he's just a wuss. But I doubt it.

[spokewench]

In addition, to what he eats during the ride, one of the most important things is that he eats immediately after the ride. He needs better recovery. He may try a recovery drink right after the ride as well and this may help. It may also be because he is training a lot during the week and he just may be training too hard without enough off-time recovery time.

Do you train as much as he does during the week; maybe this is the difference between your strength on the weekends after the ride and his lack of?

There are a lot of variables that may be contributing to him being that tired.

[abejita]

We are both 37. I ride about 100-150 miles a week and I don't run (unless chased :-)

[lemondirgopie]

I'm no expert, but maybe replace the sugar in the homemade gatorade with honey? Personally I've never reacted well to real sugar (I immediately feel tired and strangely I get a lot of phlegm in the back of my throat). The sugar may not be the only reason he is crashing, but my guess is it's not helping. Honey is great because not only does it have plenty of nutrients but your body processes it differently, which could have an effect on how he is feeling.

I have a recipe for homemade gatorade that I got from a beekeeping seminar I attended, but can't seem find it. I think it was very similar to your recipe, without the lemon juice and the honey replacing the sugar. Since you already heat up your mixture it would be easy to add the honey. Sometimes I like to add a little bit of raw apple cider vinegar for the health benefits & taste, but of course that's all personal taste. If you want to add a little pick-me-up, brewing some green tea to add to the drink might be a good idea for the caffeine.

[OakLeaf]

I'm the opposite. I can't tolerate much fructose at all on a ride. That goes for everything from fresh fruit to honey to liquid Gatorade (the powder is made with sugar).

I'm also prone to hypoglycemia, but I have never had a problem during a workout. That's been discussed here before and I think it's the consensus among all of us who have those issues. Your body processes simple sugars very differently during hard exertion than it does when you're watching TV and eating bonbons.

[grey]

I had this issue about a month ago. For me it was overtraining for too many weeks in a row. I took a few days off, and when I got back on the bike, I wasn't dead after a ride. Before that - I would be useless the rest of the day. I would eat and then crash for several hours, and I do NOT have time for that! A day in between to rest was not enough (then). Right now it is fine, but I've also leveled off my miles and am in better shape than I was.

[Dogmama]

I had this issue about a month ago. For me it was overtraining for too many weeks in a row. I took a few days off, and when I got back on the bike, I wasn't dead after a ride. Before that - I would be useless the rest of the day. I would eat and then crash for several hours, and I do NOT have time for that! A day in between to rest was not enough (then). Right now it is fine, but I've also leveled off my miles and am in better shape than I was.

Same here. I've had some of my spinning students tell me that they're wiped out too. I think it's partly the oppressive heat & dehydration for them. I read that overtraining, for most people, is difficult to achieve but many of us under-recover. That means days off need to be pleasant - not running around doing errands, cleaning house, etc. I don't think most of us have that luxury, but maybe we can work in a half day here & there.

[grey]

Hm, now that makes sense, Dogmama! I've always got ten million things to do, and most of them are not easy on the body (walking three dogs, remodeling a house, gardening, canning etc). Under-recovery is much more likely. :-)

[abejita]

So this weekend, hubs tried a couple of your suggestions. He brought more with him on his ride and ate it throughout his ride and not just at the two breaks that the group takes. He likes to make himself a shake when he gets back from a ride, but it is just milk and fruit. He added two scoops of protein powder to that and at his post ride meal after that. I have to say that he was much more alert!

Thanks for all the great advice!