One more "why women don't cycle" article

[PamNY]

This one is from the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/04/nyregion/number-of-female-cyclists-lags-in-new-york-with-safety-as-a-concern.html?pagewanted=1&hp).

Several things they don't mention -- one, how do you carry a heavy bike up subway stairs? Vintage-inspired doesn't matter much if you can't hoist the thing.

Two, what about bike theft? Female or no, who locks up an $1100 bike in New York City?

I can't wait to see how Adeline Adeline changes now that they are marketing to males. Do they have a headhunter searching for guys in greasy t-shirts who can yell "YO!" at each other really well?

[owlice]

one, how do you carry a heavy bike up subway stairs?
When I rode a bike in NYC, I never once tried to take it on the subway! It would never have occurred to me to try that. I think more important is how to carry a bike up any steps, such as to one's fourth-floor walkup!

It was lovely to ride in Central Park, much less so to be tooling down Fifth Avenue at rush hour. :eek: My experiences back then (early 80s) may account for my fondness for trails now.

PamNY, I think you could offer your insights to the owner of Adeline Adeline. What good is a flashy bike one can't hoist around and is so expensive, one doesn't want to lock it up on the street?

[ny biker]

Do women really need to be told that A-line skirts are better than pencil skirts when cycling?

[shootingstar]

I think though the safety issue is a big one for quite a number of women that I've personally met. Just based on comments made to me over the years when I've cycle-commuted --not even cycle-touring.

But yes, in cities with expensive rent and tight accommodation, being able to hoist up one's bike up a flight of stairs or more, can be a significant factor/barrier.

And there are many women who just don't want to look sweaty /messy from cycling around on a beautiful summer day and then get off bike, to go shopping. Fussy, but probably many women fit this profile. (After all, same ladies wear full makeup, chic clothing just to go window shopping.)

[salsabike]

I think though the safety issue is a big one for quite a number of women that I've personally met. Just based on comments made to me over the years when I've cycle-commuted --not even cycle-touring.

But yes, in cities with expensive rent and tight accommodation, being able to hoist up one's bike up a flight of stairs or more, can be a significant factor/barrier.

And there are many women who just don't want to look sweaty /messy from cycling around on a beautiful summer day and then get off bike, to go shopping. Fussy, but probably many women fit this profile. (After all, same ladies wear full makeup, chic clothing just to go window shopping.)

Shootingstar, I am wondering why you think there are "many" women who fit that profile. Is there some kind of research that suggests that?

[ny biker]

I don't wear "full makeup and chic clothing to go window shopping." (I don't go window shopping -- waste of time, might as well go in and buy something.) But I do make an effort to be presentable when I leave the house, which generally involves wearing makeup and clothes that fit well and are reasonably in fashion. I don't consider this "fussy," I consider it taking pride in my appearance.

When I lived in NYC I had no trouble getting around via subway, bus, walking or taxi. There was no need for any other mode of transportation.

[PamNY]

And there are many women who just don't want to look sweaty /messy from cycling around on a beautiful summer day and then get off bike, to go shopping. Fussy, but probably many women fit this profile. (After all, same ladies wear full makeup, chic clothing just to go window shopping.)

Canada must be very different from the US in this regard.

[KnottedYet]

Sarah Chan's bike blog is one of my very favorite internet things http://www.girlsandbicycles.ca/ She loves bikes, and she loves clothes, and she loves activism. Through-out her blog posts, you can see that she gets a kick out of being creative with clothes. It's art, it's fun, and she shares her excitement about clothes just as well as she shares her excitement about her bikes.

Perhaps pleasure in clothing and make-up might look fussy, but so might any one us with our detailed concern about our bikes and our knowledge about bike parts and types. Is it fussy for us to choose the "right" bike from our stable for a jaunt to the coffee shop? Is it fussy to choose a different bike for a 50 mile ride-like-the-wind? How about choosing a folder for an evening at the symphony? How fussy is that? Oh, my goodness, and how fussy is it to worry about the color of one's bar tape or saddle?

We're all fussy to someone else.

Don't fret over others, don't search for a pecking order. That's fussy. And tedious.

Admire the artistry.

Ride lots.

[salsabike]

It's probably more to do with personal world-view.

Sometimes the world is more comfortable if one has a few large classes of persons to put down, in order to make oneself higher up.

On a happy note: Sarah Chan's bike blog is one of my very favorite internet things http://www.girlsandbicycles.ca/ She loves bikes, and she loves clothes, and she loves activism. Through-out her blog posts, you can see that she gets a kick out of being creative with clothes. It's art, it's fun, and she shares her excitement about clothes just as well as she shares her excitement about her bikes.

Perhaps pleasure in clothing and make-up might look fussy, but so might any one us with our detailed concern about our bikes and our knowledge about bike parts and types. Is it fussy for us to choose the "right" bike from our stable for a jaunt to the coffee shop? Is it fussy to choose a different bike for a 50 mile ride-like-the-wind? How about choosing a folder for an evening at the symphony? How fussy is that?

We're all fussy to someone else.

Don't fret over others, don't search for a pecking order.

Ride lots.

Yet another post where I need the "like" button.

[Owlie]

If we're talking commuting:

Workplace grooming/dressing standards, whether by company policy or social norm, tend to be higher for women than for men. (Judging by what I've seen, anyway.) I can imagine that it's a little daunting to figure out exactly how to make yourself look presentable (or bring clothes and shoes with you) and be not-stinky when you get to work, unless you work somewhere relatively casual or have access to showers, etc. I'm not afraid to sweat (I sweat like a pig), and I'm not terribly "fussy" about my appearance (I don't wear makeup, for example), but I don't want to go to the grocery store like that, let alone work!

[shootingstar]

Shootingstar, I am wondering why you think there are "many" women who fit that profile. Is there some kind of research that suggests that?

Just anecodotal. I've had several women say to me, that they don't like looking messy, etc. And they are really are neat individuals in their habits and personal appearance --at any time.

I think cycling for commuting to work, shopping or visiting people, for some folks they want to look well, neat after getting off bike and not worry much about prep work in the washroom. When in reality when biking enough, either one chooses to look abit dishevelled (not care what others think) or spends abit of time in washroom to freshen up, etc.

[Crankin]

I think it's the planning it takes to bring your work clothes, hygiene supplies that stops most women from commuting. I would be one of those fussy people, according to some, but I also love to sweat and I don't mind getting dirty. I wear make up all of the time when going out of the house, not when doing serious riding or running, of course, but if I am doing errands, you might see some. Also, I think that in big cities, especially NYC, there is such a fashion sense, it seems inconceivable to some women that they could walk into work in sweaty bike clothes and have someone see them, even if it was when they were just going to the bathroom or locker room to change into work attire. I get the sense that a lot of women don't like to sweat, based on my own anecdotal evidence from my regular friends. So, they go to an air conditioned gym, where it's "OK" to exert one's self in that environment, shower, and get back to real life.
I had a funny experience that showed me some of those attitudes last summer. I rode my Jamis to Concord center, because I was bored. It was a very, very hot day, in the low nineties. This is only a 4 mile ride, but I was sweating like crazy when I arrived. A very nice boutique that has shops in 3-4 upscale towns was having a sale, and I thought I would go in to see if they had anything. I was wearing "fashionable" commuting clothes, that I love; a skort, a Terry Eurohalter, matching socks, and my Keen sandals (which match my blue Jamis). OK, I had some women actually look at me with fright, disdain, and back away, because I was sweaty. I saw a couple saying something about me, in my disheveled state.
I really wanted to try on a sundress there, but I was too sweaty, so I just bought it and stuck it in my pannier, and it did fit. The sales staff was nice, but I was kind of amazed that my sweaty presence caused such an uproar.

[Biciclista]

I've spoken to women whose agenda was "my hair" and "sweaty" they couldn't bear the thought of going to work on a bicycle because it would mess them up. And I live in Seattle! I know NY is a lot more fashion-conscious place.

[shootingstar]

I get the sense that a lot of women don't like to sweat, based on my own anecdotal evidence from my regular friends. So, they go to an air conditioned gym, where it's "OK" to exert one's self in that environment, shower, and get back to real life.
I had a funny experience that showed me some of those attitudes last summer. I rode my Jamis to Concord center, because I was bored. It was a very, very hot day, in the low nineties. This is only a 4 mile ride, but I was sweating like crazy when I arrived. A very nice boutique that has shops in 3-4 upscale towns was having a sale, and I thought I would go in to see if they had anything. I was wearing "fashionable" commuting clothes, that I love; a skort, a Terry Eurohalter, matching socks, and my Keen sandals (which match my blue Jamis). OK, I had some women actually look at me with fright, disdain, and back away, because I was sweaty. I saw a couple saying something about me, in my disheveled state.
I really wanted to try on a sundress there, but I was too sweaty, so I just bought it and stuck it in my pannier, and it did fit. The sales staff was nice, but I was kind of amazed that my sweaty presence caused such an uproar.

Crankin, I do notice women joggers and cyclists in stores who are sweating alot. :) But hey, it's great to pick up something from the store, if it fits their schedule. It's amazing how judgemental we can be...would we be like that to sweaty guys....quite a number of guys sweat in the face easily, just simply on a hot day without much exercise exertion.

It's great when a woman chooses to cycle in streetwear. Because it's funny that I'm the opposite of being overly fussy about ruining my dress clothing when I bike. It was a big deal for myself to cycle in black jeans from one building to headquarters building for work last week. I gave up the thought of wearing $100.00 dress pants (which took ages for me to find right fit, style) for cycling: I didn't want to rip anything and not having a sewing machine (in Calgary) to repair a tear/broken seam.

But it was a business meeting with 100 people I didn't know, where I cycle commuted there and changed into black jeans and semi dress jacket. But no make-up. Haven't gotten around to it for past 8 months.

Methinks for some folks being in an enclosed group of people doing yoga or whatever sport in the gymn, is "safe" for them to look lousy/messy for a confined group of people doing the same sport without many non-exercising strangers looking/noticing them. Yes, exercise as not part of "real" life. But if it works for them for many years, great.

[PamNY]

I go all kinds of places when I'm cycling. It would never cross my mind to worry about sweat or less-than-perfect hair in a store.

An experience like Crankin describes -- someone exhibiting fright because of sweat? -- is close to incomprehensible to me.

New York is not at all like people think. Maybe in some environments -- very conservative business or very high-end boutiques -- entering the building in cycling attire might be an issue, but in general it wouldn't be. If anybody reacted, it would be a tourist.

If I cycled to business appointments hair would be problem. It would be hard to make sweaty hair look professional. This is less of an issue for men because their hair is usually shorter. I also think the planning of clothing and hygiene supplies that Crankin mentioned would be an issue.

Another point about NYC: subway stations are a steam bath during a heat wave. Except for helmet hair, you would arrive at your destination less sweaty if you traveled by bike. And remember -- you WALK to the subway station, so more sweat.

[Crankin]

You are right; short hair made commuting a non-issue for me. I got to work, re-wet my hair, put some product in it and it was back to normal. If I stop on a ride to do something, I can just dump some water from my water bottle on my head and make myself look presentable.
I may be getting a client in a nearby town. When I jokingly said to my boss that I could ride there, she told me to go for it. But, I would have to be able to go right home afterwards, or see another client nearby. Probably would wear my Zoic knickers or shorts, not spandex, but I would do it.
And those women who didn't like seeing my sweaty self in the store? I see people like that all of the time. I don't like to generalize, but it seems they are always driving a white Escalade.

[salsabike]

New York is not at all like people think. Maybe in some environments -- very conservative business or very high-end boutiques -- entering the building in cycling attire might be an issue, but in general it wouldn't be. If anybody reacted, it would be a tourist.




Exactly.

[Antaresia]

I know what it's like because I WAS one of those girls, when I was a teenager. I hated what the helmet did to my hair, and didn't want to ride anywhere because of it :rolleyes:

It's funny how it isn't even a big deal, or maybe I just loosened up as I got older. A bandanna is a fine solution; an ponytail as a last resort. I still don't leave the house without a little makeup, I will actually bring my eyelash curler to work if it's raining hard enough (I hate droopy eyelashes). I am a fussy fussy lady who has managed it because biking really is that awesome.

I've gotten some of my girl friends excited about biking, I've gotten two into bike shops, and 3 asking where I got my bike. I'm just so frigging excited and it's contagious. Probably helps that I'm not the most athletic girl in the world, and if I can do it anyone surely can.