Need advice...learning how to run for a duathlon

[VenusdeVelo]

Maybe someone out there not only cycles but runs too -- I want to do my first duathlon next year and so, I am learning how to run. Have ran now about 7-8 times, try to run 2x per week on a 1.2 mile course. My problem is lower leg pain, esp shins. Have a new pair of Asics, thinking of having someone analyze my stride in my shoe, not sure if that is contributing to it. I just can't get over this hump where your legs feel like lead, esp lower half. Also thinking about doing treadmill runs only for the winter to get used to it...right now I am on cement. Not the best but the easiest for my to get out on. Cycling is like floating on air in comparison...... :p

Any tips?

[liksani]

Hmm, I actually don't cycle that much but I want to get into it. But I do run. Am actually resting now cuz just did my first marathon this past weekend :). Go to a running shoe store, they'll analyze how you run and fit you to shoes that will work for your feet. At the store, you should be able to ask them if they have any advice on shin pain too since they're probably all runners. Also if possible, run on a track or asphalt. It's a lot easier on your knees than cement. If you can do treadmill go for it... personally I feel too much like a hamster on a treadmill though it is easier to run on a treadmill since there isn't the wind, weather, slope factor unless you add slope in i guess.

I don't know maybe trying stretching out your shins before running also and make sure you stretch afterwards? But i'm sure you already knew that. :P

[VenusdeVelo]

Thanks for the advuce Liksani...BTW if you want to get into cycling, this is a great board for you. Advice on every topic under the sun, and then some.

I've been reading last few days on the whole "shin splint syndrome" and based on what I read, the pain I have appears to be more common in beginning runners, and besides having stride evaluated as you said, stretching before hand was also recommended. Apparently I may have "an imbalance in posterior and anterior muscles" -- posterior too tight -- and I know this could be because of 1.) cycling (I am always trying to loosen those hammies) and 2.) my other vice - high heels :D So I think I am going to get my stride looked at (unfortunately just bought a new pair of Asics so hoping the shoes with maybe an insert might work to correct). This will hopefully rule out the obvious. Then at least for next few winter months, try a softer surface run and graduate to pavement (my even is on pavement).

So...we'll see....I just don't want to do anything that will sideline me....

Thanks!! Good luck on your cycling, if I can help in any way let me know.

[Deborajen]

Can't make any suggestions specifically for the shin splints but I used to work for an orthopaedic surgeon and his recommendation for hamstring pulls was to run backwards. Also, if you have a problem with a joint or a muscle group, you can often end up aggravating another joint or muscle group in the same limb by trying to compensate for the first problem.

Couldn't hurt to try a few short stretches of backwards running to loosen up the hams. Might not fix the shins, but at least they wouldn't have the tight hams to work against.

Deb

[KSH]

I personally just had to give up on a goal on running a half marathon in December.

It is about a month out... and I have had this reoccuring leg pain... not the same as yours... and it's not muscle pain... I bought new shoes which helped for about a week, then the pain was back.

So, this past weekend, I had to come to the realization that there is no way I can make it 13 miles running. I have been training so hard... but I know it's my form... so I am going to sign up for a running class next year... and hopefully I will get my form in order... so I can run further than a 5K in the future.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help... but my experience is similar to yours... so I feel your pain... literally!

[Yasmin]

Maybe someone out there not only cycles but runs too -- I want to do my first duathlon next year and so, I am learning how to run. Have ran now about 7-8 times, try to run 2x per week on a 1.2 mile course. My problem is lower leg pain, esp shins. Have a new pair of Asics, thinking of having someone analyze my stride in my shoe, not sure if that is contributing to it. I just can't get over this hump where your legs feel like lead, esp lower half. Also thinking about doing treadmill runs only for the winter to get used to it...right now I am on cement. Not the best but the easiest for my to get out on. Cycling is like floating on air in comparison...... :p

Any tips?I run, swim & cycle.The running has proven to be the hardest on my body. However, I have only experienced "shin splints" once & that was within my first year of running. It kept me grounded for 3 months it was so bad.
Getting a really good pair of shoes is VERY important, but you have Asics & that's what I run in. In fact, I won't run in anything else. My advice is to run a bit slower until you have no symptoms & then increase the pace. Get the fit of your shoes checked also. If that's OK, try a podiatrist to make sure the alignment of your feet, ankles, knees & hips are OK...and STRETCH!
Let us know how you get on.
Regards,
Yasmin.

[Lise]

I agree with Yasmin. I'm a triathlete, but still wasn't much of a runner, and when I started to train for a 1/2 and full marathon this summer, I got shin splints. I read up on it and realized I was running too fast, too soon. My heart and lungs could barely stand it, either. I iced my shins and took Motrin, and when I started running again, I ran as slowly as possible. Gradually built up to my current snail-like pace. I hope to build both endurance and speed. I run mostly on concrete, in my neighborhood. My biggest injury this summer was when I tripped on a broken piece of sidewalk, and skinned the *&$#+@* out of both knees and palms!

Go slow and build up--and have fun with your duathlon!

Lise

[greengirl]

I have been running competitively for about 15 years, and I finally got rid of my shin splints about 8 years ago. But my shin bones are toast. They feel like sponges. From my personal experience, shin splints are at their worst when your calf muscles are too strong for your shin muscles, and pull on them, therefore pulling them away from your shins, causing little tears. In addition to good shoes that fit your stride (most important thing to help your shin splints--I like New Balance 856's), and stretching, you need to strengthen your shin muscles. You can do this pretty much any time, any place. When you're sitting down, (or standing up) lift your foot up, with your heel on the floor. Point your toes up towards your knees. You should feel it in your shin muscle. Do this several times a day, and it should help. One caveat, you will be sore for a couple of days :)

[jjules]

my shins caused awful pain at one stage, it was lack of stretching.,..oh swimming really helped me.

[luv'nAustin]

VenusdeVelo,
Are you still running, and did you get over the pain in your legs?
I am asking because I am also suffering from lower leg pain. It is on the inside of my legs and starts just above the ankle, and travels up about four inches. It really hurts if I press on the bone, but aches continuously while running, and only running. I have no pain with any other activity and the more I run, the more it hurts.

My shoes are still pretty new and I bought them from a very good runnning store.

Anyone else have this same kind of pain, and if so, did you ever get a diagnosis?
I just ruptured two discs in my back four weeks ago and I hate the thought of more doctor visits. BTW, I had the pain before the back problem too and it took four runs this week before the pain came back to my legs.

Thanks for any information that ya'll can throw my way.
Karri

[VenusdeVelo]

:D Hi luvnaustin.
My running has taken some hiatus due to weather/darkness (I live in an area of Europe where it's dark til 8:45am and dark again at 3:30...live in the city so I am not comfortable running in the dark all that much) and had a hamstring pull (not due to running).

I am planning to start up again when the weather lightens soon...but after doing some research and talking to runners and reading up on female runners...what I found:
1.) Due to build, the pain women typically experience as new runners tends to be in the shin area. For men it's hamstrings. So we are not atypical. The shin pain can occur in different areas but I had pain similar to yours, I esp hated the "press the shin bone" pain. There is just something disturbing about a bone hurting!

2.) Contrary to common opinion, shin splints are not microcracks in the bone...in a serious situation this can happen, but more commonly, shin issues with running tend to be with the surrounding muscles and tendons in the area. (See link http://www.drpribut.com/sports/spshin.html which has more on these topics.)

3.) Per many runners I spoke with, unless you have more biomechanics issues (back issues etc.), the pain should subside after long practice with 30 sec walking, 30 sec running, repeat etc. Ie, don't try and "run thru pain". Keep alternating until you can handle 45 sec running w/out pain etc. So despite your ability to handle the cardio load of running, it's important to get your physiology in synch first. You could also visit a chirpractor, orthopedic surgeon etc. if you suspect chronic back issues that may be throwing off your gait. Running will exaggerate any problems you have so you would expect not to see the same thing cycling for example. I can cycle everyday for 1.5 hours per day and although my quads will eventually be fatigued, never any shin pain.

My pain subsided a little bit but that's when weather/light/hamstring things cropped up. See more on next points.

4.) Everything I read emphasizes that new or renewed runners should try and avoid cement or concrete until their body is acclimated to running. If you can start on a treadmill, or trail, you'll save some pain and acclimation issues. I only have access to concrete and unfortunately it's also uneven cobblestone so I am adding a little fuel to my fire :D.

5.) Shoes -- more important than I thought. Not only good shoes, shoes designed for running (the obvious!) but also going to a running store that will observe your running gait on a treadmill with the shoes they recommend. Many experienced runners I spoke with highly recommended this small thing to get yourself started. Many running stores offer this. I've not done this yet but I brought back a pair of newer running shoes I had in the US that I liked when I was there and I am starting again with those, and I will try and get to a running specialist at the running store in the spring possibly when I go back again. (I could do it here but a little bit of a language barrier, and it's just easier if I do it in the US.)

6.) Strength training -- I got conflicting views on this. I am a believer (via cycling experience) that strengthening the muscles surrounding the areas you are "taxing" will help your activity, as well as prevent your body parts from compensating for possible weak muscles. Same reason an ortho surgeon will put you in therapy immediately after an injury and prior to surgery -- so you continue to build the surrounding muscle and prevent any atrophy from occurring. As such, some runners believe in strength training in the off season (late fall/winter). Some believe to get better, you repeat the sport (ie, running). It's a philosophical difference you need to see which works for you. I am a fan of Joe Friel (Cyclists Training Bible and Triathlete's Training Bible) and he offers a very structured weight training program for runners and cyclists and promotes it as a critical part of training. You might consider getting a copy of his Triathlete's Bible as I found some interesting tips even on running gail -- how your foot should strike the pavement etc. Also, his son (Dirk) facilitates the site www.trainingpeaks.com which offers good solid training info for runners...his strength training programs are also there.

Other than this...the normal stuff of hydration, stretching after the run, don't run consecutive days yet, and one thing I started to try that seemed to help a bit -- 10 min on my trainer (bike) to warm up before a run. Gets the muscles warmed up and the jointes lubricated.

Hope this wasn't too long!! But I found out some good info by asking around, talking to some very experienced runners. I think most if it you probably know, but it's good to confirm, as well as emphasize which aspect of these points are most critical. At least I know what to work on. If I can't completely remove the shin pain after a couple of months again of trying this, I would probably then go to the next step of seeing a running coach who can examine my gait, and assess my mechanics more closely. By that time I will also know how much I am willing to devote to this. Also, I am in my early 40's...age does make a difference to in getting strarted. Luckily though, I never have any knee pain!

Hope this helps, let me know or send me a PM on your progress!!

[luv'nAustin]

Oh my gosh, I am so thankful for your response! I am going to keep it and review from time to time.

I had a terrible run today, had to quit after just 2k and was nearly in tears from the pain as I hobbled off of the trail. There was no way that I could finish the three miles that the coach had on my agenda.

So, I went into the gym and did twenty minutes of stair climbing and thirty minutes on the elliptical. The pain was completely gone by the time I finished on the elliptical, so I decided to see how a run would feel on a treadmill...I never said I was very smart! I just wanted to see if having warm muscles and a more forgiving platform would help. I managed to get through two miles with moderate pain, but once I stepped off the treadmill I was once again hobbling! Oh, I also had arch support in my shoes today.

Thanks again for your help. I'll let you know if I do see a physician and what they say.
karri

[profàvélo]

Maybe someone out there not only cycles but runs too -- I want to do my first duathlon next year and so, I am learning how to run. Have ran now about 7-8 times, try to run 2x per week on a 1.2 mile course. My problem is lower leg pain, esp shins. Have a new pair of Asics, thinking of having someone analyze my stride in my shoe, not sure if that is contributing to it. I just can't get over this hump where your legs feel like lead, esp lower half. Also thinking about doing treadmill runs only for the winter to get used to it...right now I am on cement. Not the best but the easiest for my to get out on. Cycling is like floating on air in comparison...... :p

Any tips?

Venus--When you started out, were you running the whole course, or did you start by alternating between running and walking (or wogging, as I call it)? I am a cyclist, and in November I decided I would start running this winter, and my goal was to be able to do the 5k course here on campus. I have never enjoyed running, but I wanted to be able to do something to keep me active in the winter when I can't ride as often. (I am also concerned about bone density, but I'm pretty sure that's another thread--your bones need the impact that they don't get through cycling.) Anyway, I got fitted with running shoes at a reputable running shop (owned by a woman :p )--you are right, shoe fit is very important. Then I asked my friend (triathlete) in the Health and Exercise Science dept. here where I work for a 5k training plan, specifically so that I wouldn't hurt myself. It started very slowly, something like: 10 minutes walking, 2 min. run + 2 min. walk, 3 times, 10 min. cool-down walk. I did that 3 times in one week. Then the next week, it was a little harder, like 10-walk, 2 run + 1 walk (3 times), 10-walk. Every week increased the running slightly and decreased the walking, and, as you said, the running is never on two consecutive days. I think that for cyclists, the problem is that your legs can't keep up with your lungs--you have the aerobic base to be able to run much more at the beginning, but you have to train your legs to run, to take the beating. I know all about the lead feeling in the legs, and it has gradually gotten much better. After wogging for about two months, I can actually run a whole 5k now (yea!), and I still do a 5-min. warm-up and cool-down walk. I still do not love running, but I have not had any pain. I hope you can figure out how to get rid of yours. If you'd like to see the training plan I used, let me know. The HES dept. here does lots of research on running and training; they know what they are doing.

By the way, I really admire all you runners out there. I don't know how anyone runs a half-marathon, much less a marathon.

[VenusdeVelo]

Hi prof,
I did do the "wogging" (love that word :D) but being the impatient person, I probably moved to more run than walk because as you said, the cardio was good, why not?

I also have the mental block of not liking running so as I now have the trainer and bike setup indoors with a load of spinervals DVDs (thanks santa) I always gravitate towards that. I just love that cycling is a great workout, can be intensely tough, but body parts don't hurt (ie, not like in running at least, I know a mean set of intervals can "hurt" but not like the pain of running). So this I completely admit is a mental block...that coupled with the amount of "dark" here in the winter, I leave for work in the dark and come home and it's dark. I am trying to psych myself once light reappears to run again more.

I got a hold of a program from a female runner on Runners World that advocates the first day - 10 min, 1 min on, 1 min off etc. So given I was also getting more male than female runner advice, this also may have had something to do with it. When I try running again, I am going to try and be patient with the program. If you have other interesting programs you like, pls feel free to PM them to me. I can also send you this one if you'd like -- it was free so I am not violating any "online ethics" by sending it to you...

Thanks for the feedback!!

[SAM SPAIN]

Hi just joined up today and really needing some advice.
I have been running and cycling for the last year, I would say that I run 5Km a day but unfortunately about 3 weeks ago I injured my shin, I have been icing my legs and taking various anti inflamatories but the pain seems to disappear then has reoccured again. Last week it went and I decided to attempt a run but when i began to run I found the pain to return and started to get back ache too. I have been cycling in the meantime cos I find it helps the pain and also keeps my weight down, I know it does not have the same effect as running for weight loss or self satisfaction. Can anyone give me advice on any other forms of exersize I can do to try and keep my weight down. I have been looking into Cross trainers and treadmills, Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

ps, love to hear from anyone in Spain, as I live hear at the moment, I am originally from London and moved here for a better climate

thanks :o

[profàvélo]

Do you have access to an elliptical machine? The good ones really imitate running very well without the impact, and you can get a really good workout.