So cycling is political act?? [Archive] - Women's Cycling Discussion Forums

shootingstar

06-10-2011, 06:08 PM

:eek: I'm really amazed how the rare folk view cycling and the advocacy of cycling as limiting their lifestyle options as a political act. :confused: As a socialist maneouvre, blah, blah.

I got the odd feedback on the blog post (http://thirdwavecyclingblog.wordpress.com/2011/06/08/30-car-free-years-cycling-pumps-money-into-my-wallet/)I wrote recently about saving money over the decades by not driving/owning a car. It was in another forum.

Indeed, the person felt cycling advocacy in general, was just one more intrusion into their freedom of rights, political rights. Then it becomes a socialist, communist morphing diatribe.

Amazing. :(

PamNY

06-10-2011, 07:24 PM

Was this just one person?

jessmarimba

06-10-2011, 07:48 PM

America is a very car-centric nation, so I wouldn't be surprised that some people were overly offended. But I also find it a little insulting when people assume things about my car ownership. Someone in the other thread wrote in a long example presuming a $20,000 vehicle with a loan - but I paid $5,000 cash 5 years ago, and could probably sell my car for about 3k today. Public transportation is also not even the slightest bit efficient here, so when I'm injured (like now) I would spend 4+ hours commuting round-trip if I went by bus. As someone who flies frequently for work, 35 miles to the airport from my office is either ridiculously expensive or 3 hours and 4 buses...one way.

Not everyone "saves" without a vehicle. Just something to be open to. I don't find you preachy but a lot of anti-vehicle people are, so the general public probably braces itself for that.

marni

06-10-2011, 07:56 PM

I think the thing that irritates me most about the whole situation is the assumption that just because I commute by bike as often as I do by car, and that because I save all of my errands and running around (non commuting) driving and limit it to one or two trips, that I have no right to the road under any circumstance. That since I ride a bike, I don't pay local taxes, highway taxes and tolls, or support the roads or car driving in any way.

I pay my taxes and homeowners fees just like everybody else, and I fail to see how my choices limit someone elses life style.

marni

shootingstar

06-10-2011, 08:03 PM

Was this just one person?

Sadly, a few others joined into his choir.

I should have explained that I don't drive because I don't like driving. I was never comfortable driving high speeds on the highway. So no point. I dropped my license. It was a personal safety issue for me. None of environmental/health fitness reasons or even saving money in the first place.

I know several people like me...but they're still driving. That's not safe for them.

jessmarimba

06-10-2011, 08:20 PM

I hate driving in traffic. I'm safe enough at it, but it makes me grumpy. So I do what I can to avoid freeways and love to commute by bike when possible...but dear lord, do I hate when I get sent someplace like LA for work and have to drive around with 8-10 lanes of traffic that are all in a hurry (and then parallel park :eek: )

I'm trying to do car-free weekends but I'm addicted to old furniture and home-repair projects so it hasn't been easy. Can't move that awesome old chair that needs reupholstered or the pile of lumber and paint for the built-ins by bike or city bus. :p

(And I'm sorry that my last post sounds grumpy. I think we all just get bothered when people make assumptions, and the implication somewhere in the original thread that people with cars can't also be thrifty irked me a little...and I love my little civic! I get defensive about her!)

zoom-zoom

06-10-2011, 08:31 PM

(And I'm sorry that my last post sounds grumpy. I think we all just get bothered when people make assumptions, and the implication somewhere in the original thread that people with cars can't also be thrifty irked me a little...and I love my little civic! I get defensive about her!)

I get this. Even some of our cyclist friends think we're nuts to not have a minivan or SUV for easy hauling of our bikes...but while our roof racks cut down on our small and midsized cars' fuel efficiency, it's only while the racks and bikes are on the cars (well, my car, specifically, since that's the one with the rack mounts). We like having fuel efficiency AND cars that are fun to drive, even if it means having to carefully pack when we go on trips. We're thrifty.

Heck, if we lived closer than 30 miles from my hubby's work we'd only have 1 small car for our family of 3, since he'd bike to work most of the time (and the awful thing is that we actually lived on the SAME street that he now works on...he was hired just months after we moved up here...horrid timing). It's not political for us, it's because the expense of 2 cars means that much less $$ to spend on fun stuff...like more bikes! :D

shootingstar

06-10-2011, 08:38 PM

2 areas I know I'm not as thrifty (though probably still budget -oriented compared to some women who are annual ever-changing fashionista lovers.):

*I no longer sew my own wardrobe once I started cycling often.
*I don't grow any of my own food.

Beyond growing herbs (which I haven't done yet where I am), I don't see the natural thing in me for the gardening love.

Sewing....maybe if I am no longer able to cycle.

Can't you see....I love to create, craft with words, pictures, fabric, paints.. :)

As for big city driving: Dearie was asked to drive his cousin and wifey from Germany from airport suburb of Vancouver (before the light rapid transit rail was extended to airport in 2009) into downtown. Guy is younger than dearie and he's used to driving the high speed auobahns in Germany! (He became a converted cyclist (and snowboarder!) after meeting dearie 15 years earlier.)

It was the lack of confidence, insufficient English fluency and high speed with interchanges that probably freaked them abit.

Same for another German guy I knew personally from another job who is fluently bilingual in English and German. He refused to drive himself from the Vancouver airport into downtown. A guy around my age and a frequent driver back Germany.

lph

06-11-2011, 01:08 AM

I can get preachy about bike commuting, because I think it really really REALLY is a good thing, for so many people and for society as a whole. But I know it annoys people, especially the ones who already have a bad conscience about driving too much or exercising too little, so I make an effort and restrain myself. We bought a car 10 years ago ourselves, and didn't automatically morph into brainless pudgy idiots frittering away our income in gas money after all, but we did get the freedom to haul large objects and go skiing and hiking in different areas without having to borrow or rent a car.

It can be a fine line, sometimes, being enthusiastic about one's own choices without being too denigrating about others. I can usually get away with just saying how much I dislike driving, and getting stuck in traffic, without too much of the "how can you bear this everyday??"-tone ;)

owlice

06-11-2011, 03:33 AM

I think we all just get bothered when people make assumptions
I'm going to make an assumption that you are not originally from Colorado (or if you are, that your parents are not). :D

Is my assumption correct? (Not asking to be snarky! Something in what you wrote makes me assume what I assumed. :) And if my assumption is correct, I'll venture a guess as to where you/your parents are originally from.)

Kiwi Stoker

06-11-2011, 05:11 AM

owlice

06-11-2011, 06:09 AM

But I know it annoys people, especially the ones who already have a bad conscience about driving too much or exercising too little
Or maybe they don't have a "bad conscience." Maybe they live too far from work to commute/have to ferry children and/or others hither and yon/are unable physically to cycle/don't have safe bike commuting roads between home and work/transport work equipment/etc.

The Washington Post has a "Dr. Gridlock" column, and some years ago, a letter appeared in it from a woman who walked to work and advocated (quite self-righteously) that everyone live near enough to one's employment so as to walk to work. I am rarely prompted to write to newspapers, but did in this case, asking what she suggested for my family, since my husband (at the time) worked in Suitland, our son was at that time in a (special ed) school in Rockville, and I worked downtown? (For those not in the DC area, imagine a clock with my work near the center, which is 22 miles from my house outside the Beltway at 1 o'clock, my husband's work at five o'clock and the kid's school at 11 o'clock and even further outside the Beltway. And this was better than the subsequent school, which was in Baltimore and gave me a 100-mile round trip commute on the days I dropped our son off at school and then drove to my job in DC!)

I'd love to commute to work by bike, but for what it would cost me in other things -- such as a much higher mortgage -- it's not going to happen now, and I don't feel bad about that. (I'll envy those who can, though!) Life is full of trade-offs. I'll read of everyone else's commuting exploits instead, thoroughly enjoy them, and holler "You go, girl!" in my head as I do! :)

jessmarimba

06-11-2011, 07:08 AM

I'm going to make an assumption that you are not originally from Colorado (or if you are, that your parents are not). :D

Is my assumption correct? (Not asking to be snarky! Something in what you wrote makes me assume what I assumed. :) And if my assumption is correct, I'll venture a guess as to where you/your parents are originally from.)

Is anyone really from Colorado? :D

Would the fact that I don't drive an ancient subaru wagon as my "thrifty" car have given away that I'm not from here?

I'll go on and say yes, do guess, but since I've given it away several times on this forum I'm not sure I'll believe that you just figured it out on your own. :) Though I'll give you partial credit if you guess one of the cities I've lived in so far.

goldfinch

06-11-2011, 07:23 AM

The oher way maybe- but I HATE when people assume that all cyclists are green orientated, don't have a car so don't pay road taxes and HATE cars.

Umm no sorry most cyclists are NOT in that category and these ones are probably quite rare.

I hope that it at least isn't rare for cyclists to be green oriented. I want everyone to be green oriented. :)

pll

06-11-2011, 07:44 AM

I cannot stand preaching. One's life style choices, like religious ones, are personal. I have a friend who chides me for not buying a hybrid car -- for me, a conventional one is more economical. I drive it at most twice per week and so few miles I forget on what side the gas tank is. I walk to work not to save money or to be green, but because I like it and because I dislike a long commute. I am not wasteful, but do not consider myself green. My carbon foot print, conventional car an all, is small enough.

tangentgirl

06-11-2011, 10:45 AM

Owlie

06-11-2011, 10:48 AM

Commuting by bike is of course a good thing, but of course saying that everyone should do it and rearrange their lifestyle to do it is going to ruffle some feathers.

I don't particularly like driving, but I like riding in traffic even less. I'm a chicken. :o And while I liked being able to walk to places and not having to pay for parking, gas and insurance, it was pretty inconvenient not to have a car at times. We looked into the car-sharing program when we were living in Cleveland, and there were so many ridiculous fees and things that it wasn't worth it at all.

shootingstar

06-11-2011, 11:15 AM

Shootingstar, did you respond to the person on the other forum with what you said here? If so, what did they say?

I suspect the person calling you a commie is not someone who would listen to reason, as leaping to that conclusion from your blog post in the first place seems unreasonable. I'm curious though.

Of course, you could always accuse them of being an imperialist capitalist pig who is trying to limit your right to ride a bike and wants to force everyone to drive 1989 Chevy Suburbans at 8 mpg. How dare they step on your political rights?!?

I gave same reason that I gave here, to him yesterday: I was never comfortable driving, so gave up my license a long time ago.

He graciously said I had a good (true) story.

Really, my car-free lifestyle is a LOOOOOG history of living a life, ignorant of the full convenience of a car. So ignorance =lack of temptation???

I'm sure most TEwomen here since we cycle often, will bike 2-5 kms. to the grocery store if their neighbourhood streets allow safe cycling in snow-free seasons. Instead of jumping into the car.
A personal financial story on saving money...ironic. It is...quite capitalistic. Selfish. :rolleyes:

As for being/perceived as environmentalist: Am I consciously green? I'm pretty lazy, honest. I don't use my sink garburator for veggie scraps.....I just know it's going to get clogged like the garburator in Vancouver. Which is going to cost money to bring someone in to fix it, replace blades.

And we don't have composter in our building. Will I be lobbying for one? I doubt it. I'm not going to even talk about our new condo board who have to deal with bigger issues related to reserve fund...

I do alot of personal stuff more for both saving money and personal convenience.
So biking actually provides me extra personal convenience 'cause before I only walked or took transit. Now I have a 3rd viable option.

lph

06-11-2011, 11:57 AM

Or maybe they don't have a "bad conscience." Maybe they live too far from work to commute/have to ferry children and/or others hither and yon/are unable physically to cycle/don't have safe bike commuting roads between home and work/transport work equipment/etc.

No, I actually mean the ones who tell me that they have a bad conscience. I'm not assuming everyone who doesn't bike commute has a bad conscience, honest :)

People who haven't even considered bike commuting, or who are unable to seem rarely to be bothered by my agitating for more bike commuters.

owlice

06-11-2011, 04:05 PM

Is anyone really from Colorado? :D

Would the fact that I don't drive an ancient subaru wagon as my "thrifty" car have given away that I'm not from here?

I'll go on and say yes, do guess, but since I've given it away several times on this forum I'm not sure I'll believe that you just figured it out on your own. :) Though I'll give you partial credit if you guess one of the cities I've lived in so far.
lol on the Subaru! And if I've seen where you've given it away several times here, I've forgotten, honest!

Probably (western) PA, Ohio near western PA/bordering on WVa, or West Virginia. If I'm incorrect, just say so but don't say where, please; I have a couple of other places in mind, too, but the area above is what I think is most likely. (And thanks for playing along!)

lph, I believe you, I believe you!!!

Kiwi Stoker

06-11-2011, 04:22 PM

What I probably should of said is "green orientated to the extreme". In some people's heads (anti cyclists) they seem to think being green means wearing paper clothes, eating vegan and living in a mud hut (the extreme green).

Of course this is totally silly. Yes I want everyone to be green orientated as well :)

owlice

06-11-2011, 06:59 PM

I want everyone wearing paper clothes. (Everyone else, that is. :D)

tangentgirl

06-11-2011, 07:08 PM

Every rainstorm would be a party.

jessmarimba

06-11-2011, 08:56 PM

lol on the Subaru! And if I've seen where you've given it away several times here, I've forgotten, honest!

Probably (western) PA, Ohio near western PA/bordering on WVa, or West Virginia. If I'm incorrect, just say so but don't say where, please; I have a couple of other places in mind, too, but the area above is what I think is most likely. (And thanks for playing along!)

Haha, if only :) That part of the country is BEAUTIFUL. But no, I've never lived there, though my mom is originally from Cleveland (close as I can get).

Funny thing though, when I was a waitress in college, all of my customers thought I had an Ohio accent. So I'm definitely giving off that vibe...or I just grew up talking like Mom.

What made you think there?

lph

06-12-2011, 12:05 AM

Every rainstorm would be a party.

w00t! :D :D

Owlie

06-12-2011, 03:16 AM

Haha, if only :) That part of the country is BEAUTIFUL. But no, I've never lived there, though my mom is originally from Cleveland (close as I can get).

Funny thing though, when I was a waitress in college, all of my customers thought I had an Ohio accent. So I'm definitely giving off that vibe...or I just grew up talking like Mom.

What made you think there?

I think Owlice picked up on that "needs verb-ed" construction, which is so characteristic of that region. Not to say I haven't heard it in further-west parts of Ohio. :)

owlice

06-12-2011, 07:56 AM

Owlie is correct.

Jessmarimba, the "needs upholstered" in a previous post was what made me think this. This is an old construction in English which is retained in certain parts of the US through Scots-influenced language (as in, coming from the Scots language, a Germanic language from the Angles, spoken in lowland Scotland and Northern Ireland).

People grow up speaking generally like their peers, not their parents, though some constructions seem to be ... hmmm, how to express this... not exempt from this, but carried over further than other things, might be a good way to put it.

It may be common throughout Ohio; might want to listen carefully to your mom to see whether she uses the same construction. It is common in certain areas in and around the Appalachian Mountains (which is why I specified eastern Ohio); any time I hear this construction in Maryland, I want to, and sometimes do, ask if the speaker/speaker's parents are from West Virginia. (Answers so far has always been yes.)

So other areas with which I associate this construction -- there may be other areas, this is just where I've heard it/heard it from people from these areas -- are eastern Tennessee and Kentucky and throughout Pennsylvania, though I've heard it more in western PA/from people from western PA than in other areas of PA. Western Maryland is also part of the general area in which this construction should be heard, but oddly enough, I don't hear it there (unless the speaker/speaker's parents are from WVa).

It's funny -- interesting funny, not ha-ha funny -- that this construction persists in English even now. I always like hearing/reading it; our language is richly influenced by so many others, I feel for those who have to learn it as a second language!

Thanks for indulging me! :)

Everyone else, sorry for the hijack; I'll behave now!

jessmarimba

06-12-2011, 08:25 AM

That's funny - I never noticed that the phrasing there wasn't standard! Now that I think about it, I'd guess it's a variation on the more extreme "wants verb-ing" (as in, "that dress wants washing" ), which I'd pick up immediately as Appalachian.

I do say "Ya's" instead of y'all on occasion, and I know that's a midwest thing from Mom.

I'm from Richmond, VA - and my dad's family has lived there or slightly east of there since the 1650s. So I'd imagine that I either picked that up living in middle Tennessee in college or from reading a lot.

jessmarimba

06-12-2011, 08:35 AM

Just wanted to come back and say that my mom is laughing at me now.

She just asked, "So if we're looking at one chair with a bad paint job and one with old fabric, what would you say," and I answered with "That one needs painted and that one needs reupholstered"

She replies "I guess we can only buy new chairs from now on."

(I'll stop hijacking now too!)

owlice

06-12-2011, 08:50 AM

jessmarimba, well, heck, Virginia is definitely included in the Appalachian states! I don't usually hear that construction from Virginians, but that could be because I hear people from northern Virginia about a bazillion times more than people in other areas of Virginia (and most of them are from someplace else, anyway). Or not. I'd expect to hear that construction more in the southwestern part of VA than in Richmond; Tennessee might have done it to you, too, but listen for it in your mother's speech. I'd be curious as to whether she uses it. If you hadn't noticed that phrasing before, you'd have probably noticed it in college (or in your reading), so I think it likely you grew up hearing it. Heck, listen for it in your dad's speech, too; with his family's long history in Virginia... well, I'm wondering where those folks came from and whether there were Scots speakers in the mix.

And the construction you're after for the dress is "that dress wants washed." :D

owlice

06-12-2011, 08:51 AM

jessmarimba

06-12-2011, 09:12 AM

She implied that it was acceptable in grammar school, but that she hadn't thought about it in years. Dad is definitely very proper about his grammar, too.

It's most likely from waiting tables in ruralish TN, to try and sound more like the customers. Mimicry for better tips! But I did study Russian for awhile and they don't really have a verb "to be" so you couldn't say something like "that chair needs to be reupholstered" (not that I know the Russian verb for reupholster).

lph

06-12-2011, 12:17 PM

(not that I know the Russian verb for reupholster).

jessmarimba, you disappoint me :D

emily_in_nc

06-12-2011, 07:52 PM

Jessmarimba, the "needs upholstered" in a previous post was what made me think this. This is an old construction in English which is retained in certain parts of the US through Scots-influenced language (as in, coming from the Scots language, a Germanic language from the Angles, spoken in lowland Scotland and Northern Ireland).

My in-laws talk like this -- they have lived in Ohio all their lives and are of Swedish and German descent. My DH, being from Ohio as well (though he's lived many other places since college) still says things like that. It sounds odd to me, being a southern gal!