getting over math phobia

[badger]

hello, my name is badger, and I have a math phobia.

I am wanting to become friends with numbers; I think math can be really fun if you understand it, but alas, I don't. I did take remedial math for university students who had difficulty with highschool math and want to take university level science courses. I barely passed that course which pretty much reinforced my math phobia, or the belief that I truly was dumb mathematically. I do think that it's a psychological issue rather than a true inability to grasp mathematical concepts.

I would love it if there is a warm, non-threatening, and supportive class for people like me who want to become more proficient with mathematics. I've not come across anything like this, does it exist?

I think maybe I'm just wanting to just share my thoughts, because even if a course like that existed I doubt it'll be available near me. And I doubt books could help me; that was part of the phobia, how I couldn't quite compute what I was reading into something understandable.

[indysteel]

What about getting a tutor?

[malkin]

wildaboutmath.com and castingoutnines.wordpress.com are cool math blogs. They have some thoughts about math anxiety and just lots of cool math stuff that isn't scary.

Much of the math is way way way beyond my math skill.

[Biciclista]

where are you in Canada? I might have just the tutor for you!

[ny biker]

I don't know of any courses, but I've always thought that there was probably a big psychological barrier for many people who aren't good with math. I know some people have more of an aptitude for it than others, but thinking "I can't do math" -- or hearing your parents say it when you start bringing home poor grades in it -- can't possibly make things easier.

FWIW, the math lightbulb went on in my head one night when I was doing geometry homework in 9th grade. It just took lots of practice, doing the same kinds of problems over and over until the patterns started to make sense intuitively. And just working with numbers a lot made things fall into place. I did struggle with calculus and statistics in later high school and college, but a lot of that was because I didn't fully understand the basic concepts before we moved onto more complex things, so I got lost quickly.

I took 2 semesters of statistics in college, so I was pretty good at it by the time I had to take another semester of it in grad school. Many of my classmates in grad school had been English majors who kept saying "I just can't do math." And the teacher went too fast for them -- he really did not explain things well. So we formed a study group to go over the homework assignments very slowly, to give everyone a chance to ask questions and understand things at a slower pace. I told them at the beginning that they had to stop saying that they couldn't do math -- just forget that and focus on the task at hand. We just all worked together and everyone made it through the class. And then they bought me beer after finals... :D

Another thing -- my most excellent high school algebra teacher, Mr. Foerster, taught us something that has been very helpful to me. He told us there is nothing worse than a blank page. Get your feeling of confidence by writing down what you know, so the page won't be blank anymore. Write your name. Write "Question 1." If it's a word problem that says "Moe, Joe and Zoey are going camping in Glacier National Park, and Moe bought 6 cans of Spam for $0.50 each," then write "x=6" and "y=0.50." If you'll be setting up an equation in the form of "a/b = x/y" write the lines and the equal sign. When the page is no longer blank, it helps your brain start thinking.

(Most of Mr. Foerster's word problems involved Moe, Joe and Zoey going camping in Glacier National Park with many cans of Spam. If he ever became ruler of the world, he planned to make Glacier National Park the capital. I can't remember what I did at work yesterday, but I will never forget that.)

[indysteel]

I did okay in high school with Algebra and Geometry, but really struggled with Trig. My parents got a tutor from a local university (I think he was a math grad student) for me who was exceedingly patient. He helped me gain a lot more confidence. By the time I took Calculus, I had a better idea on how to approach the material. It ultimately clicked. I remember getting a letter at graduation from my math teacher. She told me how proud she was of me and my diligence. I ended up taking several Calculus classes in college--one a requirement and one an elective--and doing rather well. While I will never be a math person, I am a big fan of working one on one with a good teacher or tutor, especially one who appreciates that different people respond to different teaching methods. If I had to tackle math again, I wouldn't hestitate to get a tutor from the get-go.

[jessmarimba]

I was a math minor and I took several equation-based classes, but the class that I really enjoyed (called Foundations of Higher Math or something equally as descriptive) was sort of a concept/language based course. Not like word problems like Moe, Joe, and Zoey, but concepts like and, or, and not, etc. I'm not sure how to describe it, it was almost like taking a computer programming class that was translated for the other side of your brain (and trust me, it was the total opposite. I got a D in my C++ class, and a 97 in this class). Our textbook was about a quarter of an inch thick, labeled something like "logistics" and it just made everything make so much sense.

I think a lot of math phobics are people who have always been taught to approach math the same way, and the way math is almost always taught appeals to the wrong side of a math phobics brain. Even standard word problems don't really manage to circumvent the usual approach. And since math teachers are people who "got" math, they can't see how to teach it any differently than what works for them.

[shootingstar]

I recognize my math skills aren't much simply because that's not my skill at area at all.

I view it for myself as not a phobia, but my natural, stronger skills are somewhere else outside of mathematics. After all, most of my siblings were taking university level courses in university applied science programs. That has always been my benchmark, since they seemed to pull off their high 90's in high school with more ease than I ever could.

I actually avoided taking any math courses in my final year of high school: simply because I knew that my university program and coursework choice was not going to be in the applied sciences at all.

Then for my graduate degree, I had to take a statistics course which was awful for me.

Anyway, badger I simply work abit harder over the years to balance and report on large annual operating budgets where I had signing authority, at least do basic departmental statistical analyses and generate the right Excel graphs, etc. Knowing what to do with the math, yes most definitely affects what I have been able to do in my jobs. Not a huge portion, but an important 10% since $$$ speaks volumes within any organization.

My tutor...is dearie..he did his engineering degree. But even he will say, that his accounting-economics course for his MBA, he didn't enjoy it . And this is from a person....in engineering.

You need to know math more because.....?

[Crankin]

I am a classic math phobic. I did well in elementary school, rote memorizing, but the the problem solving aspect of algebra and geometry, forget it. Back to the old spatial relations/perceptual issues. I was tutored through Algebra 1 (got a C-), did OK in geometry (B-), and barely made it out of Algebra 2. I had my only Ds and Fs in my whole life in a couple of terms of those courses. I took no math in college, except math for elementary school teachers (set theory?) and how to teach math. Then, I was in a doctoral program for a bit and had to take statistics. I got an A! Yes, it was statistics for social science people, but, it was still harder than hell. I was in an experimental group where we got to use a computer (1980) to do our calculations.
I avoid anything with numbers. It's too bad, because I really wanted to go into a quasi-medical field both back when I was in college and when I was looking to change careers, but my inability to do math and science held me back.
My kids went to a math/science oriented HS, not because it was really a math/science high school, but because there was a population there that excelled in those subjects and demanded more AP calculus than humanities. They were in "college prep" math, which meant the "dumb azz " level. Of course, in reality they had pretty good problem solving skills, but everyone else was going on to be engineers or such. I felt like their excellent writing skills were kind of devalued in this environment.

[marni]

I took four years of math in hs- all the way through calculus and trig but the only things that have stuck are some of the geometry about areas of shapes and some simple proportions, these are things that I have used and continue to use. As for the rest of it, I vaguely remember being in the class but...... Even fractions tend to give marginal results, but I am a whiz and adding and subtracting in my head.

marni

[channlluv]

Here you go: http://www.amazon.com/Math-Doesnt-Suck-Survive-Breaking/dp/0452289491/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304736492&sr=8-1

This is the girl who played Winnie on The Wonder Years, all grown up, gorgeous, brilliant, and a summa *** laud grad in math something from UCLA. This book helped my daughter and me both, because I wanted to be able to help her with her homework.

McKellar has a couple more books, too, that I haven't read yet, but only because I didn't know about them until just now. I'm going to go order them.

Roxy



“Danica McKellar has a message for girls: Cute and smart is better than cute and dumb.”
— The Associated Press

“[A] fun and accessible resource to help spark undiscovered math abilities in girls.”
— Dr. Sally Ride, first American woman in space

“McKellar is probably the only person on prime-time television who moonlights as a cyberspace math tutor.”
— The New York Times

[smilingcat]

When math becomes counter-intuitive, I get to hate it.

Statistics always drove me bananers... :( Classic problem is "Lets make a deal" problem. Three doors to pick your winning. Hopefully, the one you pick is the winner and not the dud. You pick one of three doors and Monty shows you one of the losers. And he asks "do you want to switch or stay with the door you chose?" The question is should you switch or stay with your original choice? does it make a difference?

Ans: If you stay with your original decision, your chance of winning is only 1/3. If you switch, your chance of winning goes up to 1/2 or is it 2/3.

go figure... :D

I went over this with people who have graduate degrees in semiconductor physics from Cal Tech, Stanford and other elite schools. It took a while before they realized yes its better to switch.

[Veronica]

I'm part of a math grant in my district with a focus on really helping the students understand what's going on in math, not just memorizing algorithms. Why is one tenth times one tenth equal to one hundredth? Why is one half equal to two fourths? That sort of thing. We're in our second year, so it's hard to see if it's making a difference yet. I know it's made math a bit more fun. :D

Veronica

[ClockworkOrange]

hello, my name is badger, and I have a math phobia.



Hi badger

I soooo understand how you feel, I always describe it as having a kind of dyslexia with numbers. :cool:

Absolutely useless as a child with numbers and no better now. Now this is kind of weird but last night, I dreamt I was having a maths exam, it was pages thick and I just stared at it and in the end I walked out but it was an unpleasant dream, that feeling of failing again.

Now the funny thing about all this, this morning I remembered the dream and then I realised that now I am retired I will never ever have to worry about any more exams or tests of any sort involving maths. :D

Looks like there are lots of helpful suggestions given to you by others.

Good luck.

[badger]

oh, I love Danica McKellar and how she's trying to tackle this subject. I knew that she was a smart cookie and was a math major. I was really tempted to get her latest book after I saw her on a news program, but because of my learning style, I'm hesitant in getting it.

I love reading novels, but I hate reading books that give you directions. User manuals, forget it. I'm notorious for not reading manuals for things like cameras and other electronics.

This is why I would love to be in a class where it's shown in front of you, or you can freely ask someone how this is or why that is.

I have heard of new methods of teaching math where you access another part of the brain; I'd love to experience that. Conventional teaching methods certainly haven't done any wonders for me. It really didn't help when people like my mother would say "but it's so easy, how could you NOT get it?" comments like that really does hurt a child and I just believed I was too dumb to understand math.

I did sudoku for a good solid 2 years, but could never do the 5 star ones. I know it's not math, but it's logical thinking; I'm definitely not accessing the right parts of my brain.

Anyways, I'll look into some workbooks or those "brain-teaser" type books that I can write in. Anything to get my neurons fired up again.

[Crankin]

I think the right side of my brain is pretty much non-existent :).
I can't do a puzzle with more than 4 pieces (like the pre-school kind) and I don't play board games or cards, either. You are right Badger; it's not math per se, it's logic/strategy. Even games where words are involved (Scrabble), if there's strategy, I fail dismally. And, I'm an excellent speller, with a good vocabulary. I can see the big picture when it's a social situation or feelings are involved, or how to plan a multi-step project involving many people, but not the big picture with right brain stuff.
The most math I ever learned was when i was co-teaching 7th grade math as an inclusion specialist. It was a regular class, with all levels of kids. The teacher, one of my teammates, explained things in a way that I finally learned it. Of course, it was all project based and hands-on. And she wisely forced me to take over the planning and teaching for weeks at a time, to raise my confidence. But, I was always feeling one step ahead of the kids.

[jacobadam]

Do you feel little frustrated when you think about doing maths homework? I have seen many students are fearing about their maths home work. You know by research confirms the pressure of timed test and risk of public embarrassment have been recognized as the source of major weakness of students. Students myths about maths (http://researchwritingreview.com/false-myths-about-mathematics-among-students.html) in general that create mistaken ideas about how maths concepts and ideas fit into our world. By avoiding students maths fear we should provide the awareness for students about the simplicity of mathematics.

[roo4]

I don't know of any courses, but I've always thought that there was probably a big psychological barrier for many people who aren't good with math. I know some people have more of an aptitude for it than others, but thinking "I can't do math" -- or hearing your parents say it when you start bringing home poor grades in it -- can't possibly make things easier.



I read an article in Scientific American a couple years back. The gist was that some people consider math skills to be innate, and some think of it as something that can be gained with practice. This meant that when kids were faced with a math problem, some kids didn't attempt it because they thought they "couldn't do math" and others considered it to be a challenge or a puzzle to be solved. Leave the "can't" behind and think of it as a mountain to be climbed. Perhaps slowly, but so what?

[PscyclePath]

I have a minor in math and a master's degree in p-chem, but am still strictly a cookbook mathematician when it gets above basic algebra ;-) Once I look up the equation, I can usually get it right, but I do have to go back to the books and slavishly follow the "recipe." :rolleyes:

Tom

[Owlie]

My majors were biology and chemistry. No way I could avoid it. And I loved chemistry, but math has always been my weak subject--even compared to English. I did pretty well in geometry, but struggled with algebra and precalc. And in college, I got a D in the semester of calculus that covered derivatives but got a very high B in the semester that covered integrals (over the summer!).:confused: I did pretty well in statistics, but I'm pretty sure that's because it was a joke--open book/open note tests, for example.

What I think worked with these courses was "I need to do well..." and as I started doing my homework and checking my answers (or getting my engineering student BF do check them for me) I realized that I was actually getting them right. Helped my confidence enormously.

That doesn't mean I went into chemistry (I don't have the math skills for physical chemistry, nor the spatial reasoning for organic), or that I'm not still a little apprehensive about the biostatistics course I have coming up...

[grey]

Oy. Math. I'm like Muirenn. I was a science major, I love science, all science - but math??? Math made me have to change my major, and I so wish it could have been different.

For myself, I know it's psychological. I've kinda wished we could have a kid, so I can try again to learn alongside Junior, and create a positive, cooperative environment. I was yelled at, threatened, hit upside the head with the math book, spanked, and dragged out of my chair by my hair for not understanding algebra. My troubles started long before then, nobody was willing to sit with me and help me learn my multiplication tables. My mom just threatened to make me eat the cards if I didn't learn them, and then once I got to school the following Monday and I didn't pass the oral testing for it, I was made to sit alone in the classroom while all my classmates went to the next room to watch a movie as a reward/punishment. Even then, the teacher made to watch over me never offered to help me learn, she just acted grumpy and sat at her desk.

I was home schooled starting in 6th grade, and while I think everything else was great and I highly recommend home schooling, Mom is definitely not comfortable around math, was easily frustrated by it herself and probably should have just hired a tutor.

I still don't know all my multiplication tables. I created a few mental "cheats" that have let me get by through life. I got through College Algebra by the skin of my teeth - dropped out of it twice, and finally found a professor who said, if struggling students would come to his office during hours and honestly show him they were trying, he'd pass them with a "C".

One thing I discovered during that class - if I did not do the problems every day, and I do mean EVERY day, I couldn't remember them at all the day after. Not one bit. I'd look at the problems done, in my notebook, in my handwriting, and not recall a bit of it. It was the weirdest thing! So I learned in order to pass, I had to never miss a day.

However - I LOVE STATISTICS! First time I ever enjoyed "math" and was being asked to help several other students. I kept my class notes from that one for many many years.

Anyway, yes, if there were a way to learn math in a positive environment, then I'd be all for it!

[Bethany1]

You aren't dumb. I promise. It takes time for our brains to understand the concepts and work through the problems.

The way math is taught in schools is pathetic and unless you have a teacher that knows how to explain concepts you lose out. I look at my kids' mathbooks and even I don't get it. There are no explanations of how a problem is solved. They are supposed to get that in class. My kids have to go to the internet to do their homework. It makes me wonder why I pay taxes if my kids are getting a better education via the internet.

When I was in college there were 500 people in my math class. The first day the professor said that most of us would fail if we didn't get help. I almost raised my hand and asked, "Is that because you suck and have tenure?" If I'm almost guaranteed to fail, that's a sad way to teach students. My TA was from Denmark and you could barely understand what he said. The math book was useless. She was right. I failed.

You have something that most of didn't have growing up. The internet. I would have killed to have access to so much information while in school and the little bit of college I had. The math information out there is wonderful and I make my kids look up stuff they don't understand. Take advantage of it and work through the concepts you don't understand. The lightbulb will go on.

Math is a beautiful language. It explains the beauty of the universe from the smallest particles to the vastness of space. It gives order to everything that exists. Even music has math in it creating the melodies that we love.

I use math in my quilting and it helps explain different concepts that I didn't understand before. I can do fractions, add, multiply, figure out areas (how many 5 inch squares fit into a yard of fabric?) If I want to make a complex block via my software, I need math to do it. Designing a Mariner's Compass block takes a lot of geometry.

Look for something you can relate to, like I do in quilting. It will help so much. It's visual and I get automatic results.

[GLC1968]

I think a lot of math phobics are people who have always been taught to approach math the same way, and the way math is almost always taught appeals to the wrong side of a math phobics brain. Even standard word problems don't really manage to circumvent the usual approach. And since math teachers are people who "got" math, they can't see how to teach it any differently than what works for them.

This. Big time.

I was good at math as a child but when I changed HS middle of my freshman year, I got tracked at a level lower than the good math students and while I got 'A's in the courses I did take, they weren't the tough math courses. I ended up in college in a sociology major because I just didn't gravitate towards math anymore because I felt I'd missed out on so much and was 'behind'. My best grade in my enitre sociology degree was in my statistics classes but that still didn't enlighten me.

Fast forward a decade or so and I found myself back in school with a bent towards engineering because I really, really enjoyed calculus now that I was taking it (finally). And I was getting all A's because math (and science) came easy to me. Who knew? Funny thing was, I was also asked by my calculus teacher to tutor because I seemed to have a different approach to the problems than the other students. I ended up tutoring algebra (not calculus) and really helping some math phobics 'get it' because I came at everything in a different way than their teachers or text books did. For me, it was about seeing the problem as they saw it and then finding a way to explain it that made sense to them. Of course, as a tutor working in a one-on-one situation, I had a luxury that teachers don't have. I could custom tailor my approach.

Anyway, for anyone who can't 'get' math - a good tutor can make all the difference. And I would also say that if you can't find a good tutor, keep looking. Finding one you connect with is KEY and one size does not fit all.

[badger]

my boyfriend and I looked at some math problems online. I was able to remember a lot of the algebra ones, but oh.my.goodness, I was so sorely lost with trigonometry. Sin, Cos, Tan, yikes!! I remember having a horrible go of it, and like back then, my mind quickly shut down. It was quite sad.

He's reading a book on quantum physics right now, and I must say most of what he's telling me is utter gibberish to me.

[Owlie]

my boyfriend and I looked at some math problems online. I was able to remember a lot of the algebra ones, but oh.my.goodness, I was so sorely lost with trigonometry. Sin, Cos, Tan, yikes!! I remember having a horrible go of it, and like back then, my mind quickly shut down. It was quite sad.

He's reading a book on quantum physics right now, and I must say most of what he's telling me is utter gibberish to me.

Remember, if you think you understand quantum physics, you don't understand quantum physics. ;)

[PscyclePath]

The way math is taught in schools is pathetic and unless you have a teacher that knows how to explain concepts you lose out. I look at my kids' mathbooks and even I don't get it. There are no explanations of how a problem is solved. They are supposed to get that in class. My kids have to go to the internet to do their homework. It makes me wonder why I pay taxes if my kids are getting a better education via the internet.

You have something that most of didn't have growing up. The internet. I would have killed to have access to so much information while in school and the little bit of college I had. The math information out there is wonderful and I make my kids look up stuff they don't understand. Take advantage of it and work through the concepts you don't understand. The lightbulb will go on.



I dodn't have the internet in grad school, either... it came along three or four years later ;-) But what I did find that I didn't have back in my undergraduate courses was a set of books, "The ______ Problem Solver" series, which covered p-chem, calculus, etc. They used a large example of common poblems and showed a step-by-step way to solve each one, with a nice bit of narration. I still have most of mine.

I didn't really appreciate math except as a way to get to a finite number until I took abstract algebra in my senior year. Probably the most useful (and still the most (and most favorably) remembered math class I took. I had a hard time with the abstract concepts of random X, Y, and Z representing some ill-defined quantities. But when I got into p-chem and those abstract variables turned into pressure, temperature, volume, and concentration, something I could clearly relate to, it all made a lot better sense and my ability to deal with it sharply improved. But I still remember in the first semester of p-chem, memorizing all the steps of a thermodynamic derivation the same way some people would memorize a poem, just so's I could scribble it all down on the Friday exams ;-)

[Owlie]

I didn't really appreciate math except as a way to get to a finite number until I took abstract algebra in my senior year. Probably the most useful (and still the most (and most favorably) remembered math class I took. I had a hard time with the abstract concepts of random X, Y, and Z representing some ill-defined quantities. But when I got into p-chem and those abstract variables turned into pressure, temperature, volume, and concentration, something I could clearly relate to, it all made a lot better sense and my ability to deal with it sharply improved. But I still remember in the first semester of p-chem, memorizing all the steps of a thermodynamic derivation the same way some people would memorize a poem, just so's I could scribble it all down on the Friday exams ;-)

Similar to my experience. Chemistry-math made far more sense to me than math-math, at least in part because there were units attached to most of these variables. Didn't really help me with p-chem 2, though. :o

[OakLeaf]

That's funny, because I had the exact opposite experience.

By now I've forgotten 95% of the math I ever learned, but as a very abstract thinker, what I do remember is sailing through multivariate calculus while the engineering students struggled to visualize six dimensions.

[pll]

I was a math minor and I took several equation-based classes, but the class that I really enjoyed (called Foundations of Higher Math or something equally as descriptive) was sort of a concept/language based course. Not like word problems like Moe, Joe, and Zoey, but concepts like and, or, and not, etc. I'm not sure how to describe it, it was almost like taking a computer programming class that was translated for the other side of your brain (and trust me, it was the total opposite. I got a D in my C++ class, and a 97 in this class). Our textbook was about a quarter of an inch thick, labeled something like "logistics" and it just made everything make so much sense.

Sounds like formal logic to me... loved that subject when I was an undergrad!

[Veronica]

The way math is taught in schools is pathetic and unless you have a teacher that knows how to explain concepts you lose out. I look at my kids' mathbooks and even I don't get it. There are no explanations of how a problem is solved. They are supposed to get that in class.



That assumes they are doing the students' job of paying attention and writing down the examples covered in class. That they are asking for clarification when they don't understand. Teachers are not mind readers.

Do you have any idea how many students come to me not knowing basic math facts? I'm talking simple addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. The sort of stuff that you're suppose to drill until you know it. Trouble is, there are some kids who need more drill then can be provided in class time. They don't get drilled at home, so by the time they get to me at 5th grade, they're still counting on their fingers. They are so caught up in acquiring the basics, that they can't get the more abstract concepts that we're starting in 5th grade.

I have kids who don't understand why we call a quarter, a quarter. I am constantly astounded by the lack of background knowledge my students possess. They no longer know how to read a regular clock, so talking about a quarter of an hour, is a totally foreign concept. Students who have never realized that .o1 is like a penny and .10 is like a dime, so of course they are not the same thing.

I've spent this week in class myself, taking a class on teaching problem solving to students - yeah 37 hours on how to teach problem solving to kids, when I should still be on vacation. The hardest thing about problem solving, is that students just want the answer - they don't care about the process. And they want the answer now. They don't want to persevere. "Let's just look up the answer on the Internet."

Don't tell me that the job we do is pathetic. Most of us are pretty passionate and concerned about what is going on in our classrooms. We are after all paid such an exorbitant amount of money for what we do. And if you think it's an easy, cushy job, go do it yourself. I've spent on average two hours of every day of my vacation working on stuff for the upcoming academic year. I spend about 3,000 dollars of my own money on things for my classroom every year. And no, I don't get reimbursed and I don't claim it as charitable donation on my taxes.

It's so easy to say that education is failing our children. But it's not education - it's all the other stuff that's happening in their lives, or not happening when it should be.

Veronica

[Crankin]

+ a zillion.

I am dreading September, when I have to go meet the school staff who work with my counseling clients. I am so afraid they will think I don't understand what they are faced with. These kids come from such unimaginable situations, I don't think the average person has any idea what these kids are up against.

[WindingRoad]

Don't hate math, without it we would have no kick butt geometry bike frames and we'd all be riding fixies forever :p

Seriously though, you don't have to be a 'natural' to get it. The best way for me is repetition. A tutor can also be a huge help for some but if you learn in very non traditional ways like I do that sometimes can be tough. I found that I have a VERY unique way of getting my mathematical answers and that though it may not have been easiest way of doing it for me it was the most logical.

[Owlie]

That assumes they are doing the students' job of paying attention and writing down the examples covered in class. That they are asking for clarification when they don't understand. Teachers are not mind readers.

Do you have any idea how many students come to me not knowing basic math facts? I'm talking simple addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. The sort of stuff that you're suppose to drill until you know it. Trouble is, there are some kids who need more drill then can be provided in class time. They don't get drilled at home, so by the time they get to me at 5th grade, they're still counting on their fingers. They are so caught up in acquiring the basics, that they can't get the more abstract concepts that we're starting in 5th grade.

I have kids who don't understand why we call a quarter, a quarter. I am constantly astounded by the lack of background knowledge my students possess. They no longer know how to read a regular clock, so talking about a quarter of an hour, is a totally foreign concept. Students who have never realized that .o1 is like a penny and .10 is like a dime, so of course they are not the same thing.

I've spent this week in class myself, taking a class on teaching problem solving to students - yeah 37 hours on how to teach problem solving to kids, when I should still be on vacation. The hardest thing about problem solving, is that students just want the answer - they don't care about the process. And they want the answer now. They don't want to persevere. "Let's just look up the answer on the Internet."

Don't tell me that the job we do is pathetic. Most of us are pretty passionate and concerned about what is going on in our classrooms. We are after all paid such an exorbitant amount of money for what we do. And if you think it's an easy, cushy job, go do it yourself. I've spent on average two hours of every day of my vacation working on stuff for the upcoming academic year. I spend about 3,000 dollars of my own money on things for my classroom every year. And no, I don't get reimbursed and I don't claim it as charitable donation on my taxes.

It's so easy to say that education is failing our children. But it's not education - it's all the other stuff that's happening in their lives, or not happening when it should be.

Veronica

+1 more. I have had bad teachers (my pre-calc teacher in high school was far more interested in coaching soccer than explaining trig :rolleyes: ) but they are certainly not representative. I wish it had occurred to me to ask my teachers how to solve something more complicated than the textbook examples, which I could figure out on my own. Anything much beyond that, I was totally lost.
I love the process of math when it works for me. It just takes me a lot of time and repetition to actually get the process and be able to apply it!

And V--"Just give me the answer" doesn't disappear. If I had a nickel for every time one of my pre-med acquaintances would cheat on o-chem homework (or tests!), or would whine when the answers for GENERAL chemistry homework/tests weren't immediately obvious and solvable with rote formula use, I'd have no trouble paying for grad school. I don't know that it was laziness. More likely that "I want the answer so I can get a good grade in this class so I can get into med school." Of course, it means they get out of the habit of looking for answers themselves. Do they expect their patients to come in with a diagnosis in hand?:rolleyes:

[eofelis]

I started in college in my 30s going into a hard science major. My math skills were not only poor, they were non-existant. I'd never taken even an algebra class in HS.

I started college in pre-algebra (basic arithmetic). I was not the only one. The class was packed full. I worked my way up through Beginning Algebra, Int Algebra, College Algebra, Trig, Pre-Calc, Calc I & Calc II. I did well, mostly A's, but I still don't feel like a mathy person.

You can do it.