Car Shopping - Small Crossovers

[surgtech1956]

I'm car shopping - my lease will be up in June, thinking about buying instead of leasing, undecided right now. I'm thinking about a small crossover vehicle. Something like a Kia Sportage, Mazda CX-7, Nissan Rogue, Honda CR-V or ??? Any comments on any of the small crossover vehicles? I really need AWD(or 4WD).

[FlyingScot]

Subaru Forester!!!!!

[surgtech1956]

Forgot to add the Forester to my list. Subarus are not that popular in my area, but I've been reading some excellent reviews on them.

[GLC1968]

I have two more suggestions to consider - but they are a bit smaller than the cars you've listed.

We have a 2005 Toyota Matrix that has been an EXCELLENT car. Truly. Ours has 115K miles on it and it's given us not a single ounce of trouble. We didn't opt for the AWD option (since we lived in the south when we bought it) but it is available.

We also now have a 2011 Mini Cooper Clubman on order. When we picked it out, I test drove the MINI Cooper Countryman (4dr, AWD) and liked it a lot. The Clubman suited us better, but the Countryman was really nice and might be worth considering.

[Jolt]

How about the Suzuki SX4? It's a little smaller than the other cars you mentioned but may be worth a look depending on how much room you need.

[westtexas]

I love my 2008 Honda CT-V. I've got about 43k on it now and it's never needed anything other than the occasional oil change and gasoline. For a small SUV it holds a lot (the weight limit load for it says 750lb, including passengers, but I've had up to 1200lbs in it). I've pretty much used mine as a truck, dog/cat hauler, moving van, etc. and my friends always ask me to drive because riding in the back is actually comfortable. It gets great gas mileage too. I think the rating it came with was 19/23 but I actually get 24/30 and I'm a huge lead foot (not a speeder though, just a quick accelerator).

HTH!

[Bike Chick]

I'm so very fond of the Subaru Outback but since any car in our household has to be union and American made, the Subaru is out. I'm looking at the 2011 Ford Explorer right now. Very, very, nice and good gas mileage.

[ASammy1]

My father LOVES his Dodge Journey and since you're from MI (me too!), I know how hard it is to support the foreign auto makers there.

[goldfinch]

I just went through shopping for the same thing. I also had the Toyota Rav4 on the list, priced comparably to Honda CRV, and the Hyundai Elantra Touring, which is like of like a long hatchback. I looked at the smaller ones too, like the Matrix.

Yesterday I bought the Rav4. The reasons:

Very comfortable to drive. The sitting position is great.
The back area is large--I can put my bike in it without even taking a wheel off. Even though the Honda CRV is comparable in size the way the back seats fold down leave a lot less room for hauling things.
The mileage is decent.
The hatchbacks were too small for my needs.
I got a good price for a two wheel drive four cylinder with no bells and whistles.
It is a toyota, it should last.
Prices are going up on vehicles that have Japan made parts so I decided to go for it now.

[nscrbug]

Have you considered the new Nissan Juke? I test drove one a few months back, and I absolutely LOVED it! Plus I like the fact that it doesn't look like all the other crossover vehicles out there...it's a little unique looking. It is definitely on my short list of vehicles that I'm considering.

Another one on my list is the Hyundai Tucson. They did a really nice job of restyling that vehicle...I think it looks great, and you can't beat Hyundai's 100,000 mile warranty.

[lawnchick22]

I recently bought a 2006 Rav4...Love love love it. It's a graduation gift for my son. I was between a crv and the Rav...rav won out. I already drive a Tundra, and know Toyotas are great vehicles.

I also hauled my bike into work this week without taking a wheel off and had plenty of room to spare.

I'm checking mileage now...prior owner said about 25 mpg in the city..pretty good, esp since it is a V6. Has great power MORE bells and whistles than my son needs, but it was a great deal....it's gonna be hard to give it up come June.
:)

[surgtech1956]

I'm going to check out the RAV4, back in the 80's I owned a Toyota and it was a great vehicle. I'm going to go drive some vehicles in the next week and a half.

[pumpkinpony]

The Kia Sportage is based off the Hyundai Tuscon frame... I just poked my nose into a friend's parents Kia and it looks darn near the same, even the same trim style inside.

I have a Hyundai Santa Fe (slightly bigger) and love it. It's AWD. The back is big enough that I can put the road or mountain bike in it laying flat without having to take a wheel off. If you only fold down one side of the rear seat, my road bike will lean up against the seat just fine which gives more room for other stuff. With a couple of Saris Traps and a 2x4 you can put two or more in the back with the front tires off. :)

It gets pretty good mileage. If I set the cruise at 65 on the highway it'll show 26.5 avg. Of course that goes down if you go faster...

[Irulan]

Just curious... why do people think they HAVE to have AWD? Now, before everyone gets huffy... I am a former Subaru owner, and DH keeps a 4x4 rig for work. I live in a four season community. We get some serious snow at times. This is not a judgment, just a call for discussion

When I was new car shopping in O8, I made a conscious decisions to skip AWD primarily for mileage concerns. It saved a few thousand dollars on the car, too. Instead I got a great front wheel drive with traction control, put a set a snow wheels and top of the line snow tires on it in the winter (blizzaks) and it gets around just great. The only time i ever have issues is when the snow is deeper than the front end of my car. Who wouldn't when it's that deep? Plus I am a skier and do lots of trip to the mountain where there is even MORE snow... Shoot when I lived in Colorado @ 8000 feet and had front wheel drive w/snow tires, my traction was just as good or better at times than 4x4.

Sometimes I think we've all snowed by the car companies for what it takes to get around safely in the snow.

[jeremywe]

Nancy,

Before turning your lease in, you should first find out what the purchase price is. Used car prices are at historic highs right now so it's likely that your end of lease purchase price is below market value.

you can potentially make a profit by buying and selling your leased vehicle. Most states allow a 10 day grace period on paying taxes if you buy and sell a car within this time period.

Here is more detail on this process:
http://www.realcartips.com/leasing/0047-profit-from-end-of-lease-buyout.shtml

A lot of people are leaving money on the table with leases these days.

[surgtech1956]

My reason for needing 4x4 or AWD is that I live in Michigan, our road isn't plowed, I work in surgery and need to be able to get into work at anytime day or night.

[zoom-zoom]

My reason for needing 4x4 or AWD is that I live in Michigan, our road isn't plowed, I work in surgery and need to be able to get into work at anytime day or night.

Just to play Devil's advocate, we also live in MI...in the snowbelt right on Lake MI (av. seasonal snowfall here is 96º). Hubby has had a 30 mile commute for 10+ years and has never once not been able to get to work due to snow. He just has a FWD sedan with all-seasons. My small FWD car has Blizzaks in the Winter (no traction control, just killer awesome tires). He will take my car when things are especially bad. But we've never once needed AWD/4WD. We also live up in the sticks (northern Muskegon county--he works in n. Ottawa cty). As the economy has worsened they plow less. For the past 3 Winters we have been lucky to be plowed more than once/week.

As we talk about rising gas prices I have a hard time understanding how SUVs and heavy, gas-guzzling AWD/4WD systems are still selling. I don't think I'd want one even if the selling price were cheaper. The cost of ownership and maintenance is just too high. Heck, I won't even drive automatic after having to shell out to replace the transmission on my first car (just 6 months after buying it, no less).

[Kitsune06]

I was looking for basically the same sort of vehicle and found it in my 1999 Chevy Tracker. They made 'em 'til 2003, but many are 4WD and the convertible ones are a LOT of fun to drive with the top down. No room inside for a bike, but a Thule spare tire rack fixes that just fine. 25ish mpg isn't GREAT but it's not TERRIBLE, especially for a 4x4. Handled the snow this winter just fine. only thing to be aware of is that it's a bit underpowered with a 1.6l engine, but if you're not looking to tow a camper or road race, it fits the bill.

[Crankin]

Well, I disagree about the AWD/4WD. Maybe because I learned to drive in the snow at age 36?
Our streets are well plowed, but I could not deal with the snow without AWD. You can't get up my street or my driveway, especially, without it. My driveway is a 15% grade and although it is plowed, it ices over and some of the snow just can't be removed. When my son comes to visit (He has a Hyundai), he parks on the street and we come down to get him, after the time he slid backwards down the driveway. I also have Blizzaks on my small AWD sedan. I even had issues sliding around without snow tires with the AWD, actually 4WD on my previous car, which was an SUV.
I'd say about 75% of the drivers here have AWD, but not necessarily SUVs. The town I live in supposedly has the highest percentage of Prius' in the world...

[VeganBikeChick]

I also require AWD (when I finally get another car!) because of my job/where I live. Granted, it doesn't snow much here, but when it does, the city is a disaster, and built on hills. Snow plows are few and far between, rock salt is not used (save the environment!) and being at my job is a requirement, no matter what.

I grew up learning how to drive in the snow and never had anything other than front wheel drive, but living here I find AWD a necessity due to the reasons above.

[Eden]

I also require AWD (when I finally get another car!) because of my job/where I live. Granted, it doesn't snow much here, but when it does, the city is a disaster, and built on hills. Snow plows are few and far between, rock salt is not used (save the environment!) and being at my job is a requirement, no matter what.

I grew up learning how to drive in the snow and never had anything other than front wheel drive, but living here I find AWD a necessity due to the reasons above.

Best thing to do when it snows in Seattle is leave your car home and ride your bike..... I don't care if you do have AWD, if you can't get around all the other schmoes who are stuck, you are stuck too....

I live on Capitol Hill and work at a hospital, and though I don't have a vital job, they still expect me to be there unless the world is pretty much coming to an end - I dress warmly and pull out the cross bike (someday I swear I'm going to outfit it with studs) when there's snow on the ground here and laugh at all the people who are lined up stuck on 23rd/Montlake.....

[Xrayted]

I'm so very fond of the Subaru Outback but since any car in our household has to be union and American made, the Subaru is out. I'm looking at the 2011 Ford Explorer right now. Very, very, nice and good gas mileage.

Hmmmm. There is no such thing as a totally "american made" car. There hasn't been for decades. Although, if you want as close to it as you can get, buy a Ford Econoline van. It's at 95%. Your Explorer... 80% american. The tipping point to be considered "american made" is only 75% and can be from Canada as well. Many "american" cars don't qualify and they are outsourcing more and more products each year. My Harley baaaarrrrrrely qualifies, actually. :rolleyes:

Your Ford Explorer comes in way low on the totem pole overall, and the gas mileage is not really that good at an average of 14/19, even compared to other SUV's. You might want to check out a Ford Escape hybrid which is 90% "american" and gets 31/34 mpg. Or a Mercury Mariner hybrid or a Mazda Tribute hybrid. They come in at 90% "american" as well, with 31/34 mpg. Of course even though the Mazda is a Japan owned and built vehicle, it is still more "american" than the Explorer overall. As we all know, under it all, it's a Ford in disguise anyway. The nameplate on the front just doesn't say "Ford". The money is still sent to Japan though. Ford figured out a long time ago to put their hands in the pockets of foreign automakers to diversify. Did they partake of the bailout? I can't recall. ;)

Well, you could look at Chevy's. Let's see... The Tahoe hybrid is the best mpg they have to offer at a measly 21/22 mpg but it's not an "american made" car either. Just has the nameplate. I guess you can forget that one afterall. Hmmm... "american made" SUV's with decent mpg... uh, hmmmm. Gimme a minute here. I know there's another one out there.


Well, most of them are coming in at about where the gas guzzling Tahoe does on mpg. Sorry. I tried. :o

As we all know, Dodge's are German with an "american" nameplate, Isuzu is Japanese (GM actually), Chrysler is German with an "american" nameplate, Mitsubishi is a Dodge but a "Japanese Dodge". (Apparently, the Germans don't like them either.) Jeeps are German with an "american" nameplate as well. Of course, I already mentioned that Mazda is Japanese but actually a Ford.

In the end, think we should all just stick to bikes. At least we know where those come from. Right? ;):D


(FWIW, I love my Subaru Impreza Outback Sport.) :cool:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMO8Pyi3UpY
:)
:)
:)
:)

[Crankin]

I can't imagine the setting where I live, my neighbors, or anyone dictating what kind of car I can drive. We still have "freedom" of choice, which we supposedly love so dearly? For years, my grandparents always were spouting the mantra of "don't buy German cars" ( the Holocaust) and "don't buy Japanese cars" ("what they did to our boys..."). One time when I came to visit, my grandfather was ranting on me about this, until finally I told him *I* was the one with a neutral car... at the time I had a Volvo and DH had a Saab, but it was my mom who had the evil Mazda. He shut up after that.

[Fredwina]

x
Bikes can be just as confusing
Take my two Bacchetta Recumbents
The Frame is made and Painted in Taiwan. It's then shipped to Tampa, Fl, where the components ( Including an American made seat and Chinese Handlebars). so is this American or Chinese? and which Chinese?

[Catrin]

I love my 100% Japanese made Mitsubishi Lancer... and I love my 100% American made Gunnar (at least the frame is), and I love my (probably) made-in-Taiwan-or-China LHT and Jamis. Thankfully we still have freedom of choice!

[zoom-zoom]

I already mentioned that Mazda is Japanese but actually a Ford.

Hmmm...yes and no. Mazdas are still Mazdas if we're talking cars. My 3 was shipped from Japan, but I think the 6s are made in the US. I think Mazda trucks are actually Fords, but they all share parts here and there. My '87 626 and '97 Ford Escort had the same dome light.

And don't forget Volvo. A whole bunch of vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C1_platform) from these 3 manufacturers share(d) the same platform.

[zoom-zoom]

I love my 100% Japanese made Mitsubishi Lancer... and I love my 100% American made Gunnar (at least the frame is), and I love my (probably) made-in-Taiwan-or-China LHT and Jamis. Thankfully we still have freedom of choice!

:D That reminds me...my '10 Cannondale Synapse was made in the US, but not my '11 SuperSix. I seem to recall reading that as of this model year there are very few Cdales made in the US, now.

[Xrayted]

Well, in case you were wondering... :D


Shimano - Japan and Taiwan
SRAM - Taiwan
Campy - Italy but some now made in Taiwan. Assembly is in Romania apparently
Trek - Wisconsin makes highest end frames but now rest made in China and Taiwan
LeMond - owned by Trek, made in Taiwan but the highest end is still made in WI, USA
Waterford (owns Gunnar)- all USA
Specialized - made in Taiwan
Seven - made in USA
Raleigh - originally UK but now owned by a Wa, USA company and made in Asia
Orbea -Spain concept, frames made in Asia, painted in Spain.
Motobecane - made in Taiwan
Kona - California owned but made in Taiwan
Jamis - US design, made in Asia
Giant - Taiwan (make many frames for many manufacturers including many on this list that say they are from US)
Bianchi - Italy originally. now many asian markets.
Cervelo - Canadian but made in Asia and just assembled in canada
Fuji - Made in Taiwan
Colnago - made in Italy except the lower range ones, they are made in Asia
Ducati - Licensed through Bianchi, but made in Asia
Felt - Asian made
Fisher - made in Asia but owned by Trek

[Xrayted]

Hmmm...yes and no. Mazdas are still Mazdas if we're talking cars. My 3 was shipped from Japan, but I think the 6s are made in the US. I think Mazda trucks are actually Fords, but they all share parts here and there. My '87 626 and '97 Ford Escort had the same dome light.

And don't forget Volvo. A whole bunch of vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C1_platform) from these 3 manufacturers share(d) the same platform.


Did you know that Mazda designed most of the Ford Explorer? It became one of the biggest sellers for Ford for years. Ford started dropping it's holding on Mazda when the recession started to hit. Up until then, they were the majority holder. Your Mazda was owned by Ford. Btw, many Fords are not made in the US either. :) Like I said, 80% to be considered made here in the USA. Doesn't matter where the parent company is located.

[Koronin]

Ford did not take any bailout money. The Mazda trucks are basically Fords, no idea about the other vehicles.
I've actually just started looking at vehicles as I'm going to be getting a new work vehicle at some point, just need to get debt paid down first. The biggest thing I'm looking for are fuel effient as possible (and better than my current car), a good bit of easy to use and get to storage space and I really want radio controls on the steering wheel. Yes, my current car has spoiled me. No we are not getting rid of any of our vehicles for the new one. I've basically decided it needs to be a hatchback car. We have two pick up trucks and do NOT need an SUV (nor do I want one). We're looking at the Mazda 2 and 3, the Nissan Versa, and the Ford Focus. Actually just saw the Focus yesterday and that is a nice looking car. Also may consider the Nissan Lief and the Toyota Yaris.

[Chicken Little]

Hey, while we're at it, lets talk about socialized medicine and funding birth control.:rolleyes:

[Xrayted]

Hey, while we're at it, lets talk about socialized medicine and funding birth control.:rolleyes:


Exactly my point! Thank you for getting it. :D

That's why I added the video back a couple of posts... ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMO8Pyi3UpY

[zoom-zoom]

Your Mazda was owned by Ford. Btw, many Fords are not made in the US either.

To the best of my knowledge Ford never controlled more than about 33% of Mazda...I think they may not have much controlling interest at all, at this point. I seem to recall that they sold a lot of their shares of Volvo, as well.

My Escort was made in the US. That was a fun and fast experience. Our dealer actually called us the day it left the stamping plant on the other side of the state...only took a couple of weeks. We ordered exactly the specs we wanted and it was built to order. Our experience buying our Mazda wasn't nearly as fun and involved a much longer wait. Mazda didn't build to spec. We had to wait until a vehicle was available with our basic package and color, then the dealership added some of the cosmetic things that are not factory-installed on any of their vehicles.

The Ford/Mazda partnership (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda#Partnership_with_Ford_Motor_Company) over the years has been sort of interesting to me, as the 3 cars I've owned have been either Mazdas or Fords.

As much fun as my 3 is to drive, I'm leaning towards going back to Ford for my next vehicle (really like the looks of the C-Max for our growing kid and bike habit). DH and I have owned 3 Mazdas and have found them all to be somewhat quirky. I have a CEL on my 3 that's been lit for about a year. Every time our mechanic runs the code and fixes whatever is setting the CEL off, something else triggers it. All codes have been related to the fuel fill/evap system. The sheet metal is horrible, as well. My 5 year old car has about 5x the dings that my 11 year old Escort did when we sold it to a friend. I've got dings in the doors from parking lots, as well as dings in the hood and roof from acorns and pinecones. And BIG dents under the feet for our roof rack. Our little Escort was boring, but super efficient and reliable. In almost 200k miles it was never in the shop for anything other than typical wear-and-tear. Ford's recent reliability ratings continue to impress me.

[OakLeaf]

:D That reminds me...my '10 Cannondale Synapse was made in the US, but not my '11 SuperSix. I seem to recall reading that as of this model year there are very few Cdales made in the US, now.

that's weird ... my '07 Synapse was Asian-made, although I forget what country. Back then it was only the hi-mod carbon frames that were still being made in the USA (by any of the big three) - I'm surprised they brought them back even for a short time.


I don't think there are many people who don't realize that we live in a global economy ... but there are plenty of jobs where the badge on your car is important. Lots of people have to buy a car to please their superiors, not (just) their neighbors.

[Crankin]

I'm happy to discuss socialized medicine and funding birth control anytime.
Of course, I'm an effete liberal snob from the Northeast, so my opinions suck, according to some :):):):eek:.

[Bike Chick]

Xrayted, you completely missed one word in my post: UNION!

Our household tries to support the American auto worker as best we can by buying American AND union-made vehicles. When you buy a car built by an American company, made in America by American workers, you not only support the workers, but the retirees and your money stays mostly here in this country.

For the record, if the VIN number begins with a 1, 4, or 5, it identifies it as an American made vehicle; a 2 identifies a Canadian-made vehicle.

And, no, Ford did not take any money.

[zoom-zoom]

that's weird ... my '07 Synapse was Asian-made, although I forget what country. Back then it was only the hi-mod carbon frames that were still being made in the USA (by any of the big three) - I'm surprised they brought them back even for a short time.

Mine is aluminum, if that makes any difference. I think the last few Cdale models made in the US were the aluminum frames (Synapse and CAAD 9). I think pretty much all of their carbon frames are made overseas, now.

[Kitsune06]

Yes, because ALL unions do SO MUCH to benefit their employees and symbiotically benefit their companies. I'd like to remind that there are quite a few unions out there that do little but suck up their members' union dues.
When something more than simple 'representation' is asked of them, they are strangely silent and often absent. When the reps are asked about it (I'm midwestern- I get to the point) they do little but make excuses. Maybe that's just my experience, but "union made" is not a guarantee of quality- quality of product nor quality of worker treatment.

X's point was that the number of American cars made in America is vanishingly small these days and if you break it down, many are merely assembled in America out of parts produced and shipped in from Asia. Her Harley, while made by American workers in Milwaukee or Kansas or Wherever, USA is basically 80-90% Asian, and we both know this because whenever something breaks (and it does, and it will) all the replacement parts read "made in Japan" (or Taiwan). ...as do all the parts for my Honda. :p My Chevy is actually a crappier, cheaper version of the Suzuki Grand Vitara from the same time period. If I want to 'upgrade' the appearance of things that break (and they will, it's 12 year old plastic), I just order the equivalent Suzuki part... or I would, if that Japanese/American co-owned company was still in business in Canada...

The other point is that it often doesn't matter where the parent company is located- Toyota has manufacturing plants here in the states, so if you want a car made in America, by Americans, paid American wages, buy a Toyota. A wholly made-in-America car is as easy to find as a TV made in the USA. By the time you pay American workers American wages to produce every little component in that thing, then assemble the car, it would no longer be affordable for most Americans.

Someone pointed out Ford didn't take bailout money- no, they didn't, because they had thought to diversify into the booming Asian market. GM didn't have that foresight, not to the degree that Ford did. %35 in Mazda wasn't a lot, but it was 'enough' to soften the blow.

I wish we could get the motor companies to release in America HALF the great cars and motorcycles that go to the European or Asian markets- Low mpg, great features, the bikes are smaller, lighter and more practical, but the mocos are just too smart- they know the average American won't buy them because of the 'name' or because it doesn't need to have the power output of a diesel truck for hauling groceries and 3.5 kids. Darn shame.

[OakLeaf]

Y'know, unions are like lawyers. There are a courageous few who stick their collective necks out to try to increase people's rights. Among the majority who are content to merely help people enforce the rights they already have, some are more skilled than others, and some are more diligent than others. And it burns people when they have to pay a lawyer, or a union, for no other reason than to get something that theoretically should already be theirs. But a right without the ability to enforce it is no right at all.

It wasn't that long ago that Americans were laying down their lives to be in a Union. If a large proportion of non-Union workers in the USA have better-than-third-world working conditions, they can thank the Unions whose work and sacrifices brought those laws into existence.

Taft-Hartley, among other anti-Union laws, is one of the reasons why USA Unions haven't been able to bring working conditions in the USA up to the level of the rest of the first world ... and why Unions here are actually largely prohibited from "more than simple 'representation,'" or even "simple representation" outside a narrowly defined range of issues. If you want your Union to have more power, lobby your legislators for that.

No, democracy all by itself doesn't solve anything, especially when the range of questions one can vote on is so restricted. But I think most of us would much rather have more control over our lives than less - and the workplace is a large part of most peoples' and families' lives.

[Xrayted]

Yup. I know Ford didn't take any money. I alluded to that but I guess you missed the whole point. :) Ford is diversified and sends and takes $$$ back and forth on each and every vehicle. Those union guys couldn't make those cars without the people in those other countries. Why? Ford and all the rest sent their $$ overseas because they can and are making good stuff, their labor is a lot cheaper than the local guys can produce, even with shipping costs. Ford sent a bunch of manufacturing of the whole vehicles too.

We are a big reason why the global economy is strong. When we tanked a bit, the whole world felt it. We rely on everyone around us, not just a few thousand people who are in a certain union. We are somewhat responsible for them as well, since we've chosen to make them an integral part of our system. To say that you are buying completely American and only from a totally Union shop is false. There is no such product on this earth.

Btw, you are on a global forum right now. People from all walks, all continents, working together so that it gets better for all. If this was just a bunch of USA only women on here, we would be missing so many good things. It just wouldn't be the same. :( Personally, I'd also be missing my brakes, seat, pedals, handlebars, grip tape, frame, spokes, etc.... because they were all made in other countries with an "american" badge on the front of the bike.


Oh, and yes, I'm a union employee, too. :D

[Xrayted]

Ford owned 33-37% of Mazda for quite a few years. It made $$$ so they kept buying in more. Then when they made some not so smart moves and tehn the US stared buying "american", they tried to sell off the brand because americans thought Mazda wasn't an american company. Many american jobs were created with that company, and many were lost so that we could buy american. As I stated, they were the majority stock holder. Everyone has their hands in pockets all over the place these days. Everyone. There is no buying strictly american or union, for that matter. It simply doesn't exist.

Yes, true. Unions did a lot for working conditions. You said it, they helped bring them up the standards of the rest of the world. For such a "we are all equal, we all have rights, we are free, we are the best" country, why did we need to rise up in unions in the first place then? Why were our conditions that way compared the rest of the civilized world? The mighty dollar, which seems to control everything, is the answer. We are rather greedy bunch here, wanting ours and screw everyone else. We fail to see that by having that mentality, we screw ourselves, too.

Have a nice day. I'm going shopping. :rolleyes:

[Irulan]

Best thing to do when it snows in Seattle is leave your car home and ride your bike..... I don't care if you do have AWD, if you can't get around all the other schmoes who are stuck, you are stuck too....

I live on Capitol Hill and work at a hospital, and though I don't have a vital job, they still expect me to be there unless the world is pretty much coming to an end - I dress warmly and pull out the cross bike (someday I swear I'm going to outfit it with studs) when there's snow on the ground here and laugh at all the people who are lined up stuck on 23rd/Montlake.....


lol the best snow rig in the world won't save you in a) in ice storms and b) from other drivers

[Irulan]

I'm so very fond of the Subaru Outback but since any car in our household has to be union and American made, the Subaru is out. I'm looking at the 2011 Ford Explorer right now. Very, very, nice and good gas mileage.

Good mileage compared to a Suburban or Hummer maybe. :eek:

I'm sorry to come off heavy here, but anything anything under at 25 mpg is NOT good mileage. There are lots of vehicles out there getting 30,35+ MPG. We've had three Explorers that never got more than 22. DH needs a SUV for a work truck. We drove the new one and thought it was a real dog.

[Irulan]

We're looking at the Mazda 2 and 3, the Nissan Versa, and the Ford Focus. Actually just saw the Focus yesterday and that is a nice looking car. Also may consider the Nissan Lief and the Toyota Yaris.

I have the 3 wagon, be happy to discuss it.

I'm pretty sure my Mazda has some Volvo stuff on it too.

[nscrbug]

Ford did not take any bailout money. The Mazda trucks are basically Fords, no idea about the other vehicles.
I've actually just started looking at vehicles as I'm going to be getting a new work vehicle at some point, just need to get debt paid down first. The biggest thing I'm looking for are fuel effient as possible (and better than my current car), a good bit of easy to use and get to storage space and I really want radio controls on the steering wheel. Yes, my current car has spoiled me. No we are not getting rid of any of our vehicles for the new one. I've basically decided it needs to be a hatchback car. We have two pick up trucks and do NOT need an SUV (nor do I want one). We're looking at the Mazda 2 and 3, the Nissan Versa, and the Ford Focus. Actually just saw the Focus yesterday and that is a nice looking car. Also may consider the Nissan Lief and the Toyota Yaris.

We had considered the Leaf as a possible purchase...that is, until we found out that they are pretty much useless in cold climates. That 100-mile range they supposedly have, drops down into the 40's when the temperature drops. If you happen to live in a "green" state (west coast, SW, & south), then I'm sure the Leaf would be awesome...but for us in the Midwest, not so much.

[Koronin]

Irulan, when it gets closer to when we can actually afford to to make a purchase, I'd love to see what all you like/dislike about yours. Nothing is better than actually talking with someone who owns a vehicle (even if it's a different year).
nscrbug, we live in NC on the coast, so we don't get the real bad harsh winters of the mid west or the north. But that is definitely something to think about.

[zoom-zoom]

Irulan, when it gets closer to when we can actually afford to to make a purchase, I'd love to see what all you like/dislike about yours. Nothing is better than actually talking with someone who owns a vehicle (even if it's a different year).

You can see what I said about my '06 3s 5 door, upthread. There are things we love about our 3 ("zoom-zoom", height-adjustable seat, the way it fits my 6'2" hubby and <5'4" me equally well, wonderful manual transmission) and things we don't love (really low-rent sheet metal, continuous CEL since about 55k miles, mediocre gas mileage for a car of its size). When it comes time to buy our next car we'd still look at Mazda, but going back to Ford or Honda are also likely options. We've had better luck with those 2 brands than we've had with our Mazdas (which is saying something, since our Mazdas have served us fairly well, really).

[Koronin]

zoom-zoom, we've also had great luck with Fords, although we've never had Ford cars, only trucks. We currently have two Rangers. One is a 1987 with well over 300,000 miles on it. The other one is a 2005 which so far has been really good to us as well. Just no experience with their cars. I've always had GM cars, previously a Pontiac Sunbird that had over 100,000 miles when I traded it in for my current car, a 2003 Monte Carlo SS. Basically what I'll be looking for in a new car is very good gas milage with a good bit of cargo space due to all the driving I do for my job and at times how much stuff I have to carry with me. My current car gets around 25 miles to a gallon, so a new one must get better than that and I basically need a hatchback or a stationwagon (if I can find one). Right now the Focus is at the top of my list.

[chryss]

I just bought the second car of my life: I used to live in European capitals, where you don't need a car, but am now in rural Alaska outside Fairbanks. AWD/4WD was a requirement, plus "small-ish SUV or small pickup truck" seemed to be the best first approximation. I ended up with a 2002 Mazda Tribute, which is nearly identical to the Ford Escape line. Mine comes with anti-locking brakes (not all of that year do), which is great.

The car has for in the last 2 months really grown on me. It seems very solid, visibility is great, handling's great. We dealt with roads that were ice for miles, melting ice, new snow, and now foot-deep slush. No issue. Driving on the highway ... well, it feels like a car, not a truck. Fuel economy is what I think of as awful, but my American friends assure me that 18.5 mpg isn't bad for an SUV.

I'd been thinking of a Toyota RAV 4, Honda CR-V, or even a Subaru Forester or Outback (and looked at Kia Sportage -- my car is a trade-in bought at a Kia dealer), but can definitely recommend the Mazda should you come across one.

Oh, my bike fits fine inside with the back bench flattened.

[Irulan]

Irulan, when it gets closer to when we can actually afford to to make a purchase, I'd love to see what all you like/dislike about yours. Nothing is better than actually talking with someone who owns a vehicle (even if it's a different year).
nscrbug, we live in NC on the coast, so we don't get the real bad harsh winters of the mid west or the north. But that is definitely something to think about.


Here's a teaser.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_hsDVR6ZLPcI/S_MGapwzozI/AAAAAAAAASY/f9_5y1WbkmM/IMG_0825sm.jpg

[zoom-zoom]

Awesome, Irulan! Looks like we have the same Yakima rack. We got it primarily for transporting our tandem. The bike is nearly as long as the car! :eek: Your photo reminds me that my car is still filthy from neverending Winter. :o

[Irulan]

FYI, 3 bikes 3 bikers 3 loads of crap belonging to said bikers... 31 MPG. On a two lane highway.

another view.... turned the fairing over so I'm not advertising for Yakima

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_hsDVR6ZLPcI/TbTJQLQM4DI/AAAAAAAAA48/iNcuggGlcUY/s720/IMG_3140.jpg

[zoom-zoom]

Ooh, ha...just found this...
http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/demotivational-posters-america1.jpg

[Xrayted]

Hah! A Converse Chuck Taylor box! :D

[Koronin]

That is one thing the new car will be getting, (unless we end up with an electric car), however that is a reason to keep in mind for a gas car. That whole pros and cons list.

[tulip]

Koronin, I adore my VW Rabbit (2007). Made in Germany, except for the engine (Mexico) and the 5-speed manual transmission (Argentina) if that matters to you. I get a ton of stuff inside, it gets decent--but not great--gas mileage (low 30s), and is just a blast to drive. It also has all the extras that most other cars charge you extra for (standard on my mid-level Rabbit): heated seats, blinkers on the side mirrors, side airbags, CD changer, ipod plugin. I have 57k miles on mine and have had no problems. It's just a fantastic little car with alot of room inside. I regularly haul my border collie in his crate, one bike inside, one bike on the roof, lots of luggage, and I still have plenty of room.

And it's so much fun to drive!

My next one will be a TDI diesel because it gets well over 40mpg, but they were not selling those in the US in the 2007 model year.

[Blueberry]

I have a 2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDI and so far love it. I traded my Honda Element for it because 1)the dealer told me no more hauling kayaks on the roof (they caused leaks into the passenger compartment) and 2) if I couldn't haul toys, I was not going to put up with 18-21 mpg (without the boats). Haven't had any long trips with the Sportwagen yet - but in mixed driving I get 38-40 mpg average. Diesel and gas aren't that different in price right now. As Tulip said, it came nicely apportioned - heated seats, mirror blinkers, etc. We had a colder than average for my area winter (which means some mornings in the mid-teens) and there was never a problem starting it up.

I've hauled file boxes in the back - no toys yet.

[Koronin]

Thanks for the suggestion. I hadn't thought about VWs. I have no issues with European cars at all. (Other than I know they can be more expensive to fix when things go wrong.) I would need an automatic transmission though. I also really hadn't thought about diesel, but they do get better gas mileage. Hmmmm, more to consider. (My two dreams cars are a Ferrari, which will probably never happen, or a Mercedes, which is unlikely to happen. Both are just too expensive.)

[Irulan]

Koronin, I adore my VW Rabbit (2007). Made in Germany, except for the engine (Mexico) and the 5-speed manual transmission (Argentina) if that matters to you. I get a ton of stuff inside, it gets decent--but not great--gas mileage (low 30s), and is just a blast to drive. It also has all the extras that most other cars charge you extra for (standard on my mid-level Rabbit): heated seats, blinkers on the side mirrors, side airbags, CD changer, ipod plugin. I have 57k miles on mine and have had no problems. It's just a fantastic little car with alot of room inside. I regularly haul my border collie in his crate, one bike inside, one bike on the roof, lots of luggage, and I still have plenty of room.

And it's so much fun to drive!

My next one will be a TDI diesel because it gets well over 40mpg, but they were not selling those in the US in the 2007 model year.


Mazda has a lot of the nicer features too. This is where my Mazda 3 beat out a Toyota matrix. How's reliability and maintenance on VW's I had a jetta years ago that ate me alive in electrical issues.

[tulip]

Older Jettas had reliability issues, it's true. My brother had one that went bonkers.

Rabbits/Golfs are made in Germany, as are all diesel models. Gas Jettas are made in Mexico or Brazil, but they seem to have fixed their issues, as Jettas are apparently not unreliable anymore as they were 10 years ago.

I've had no problems with my Rabbit. I created an elaborate decision matrix when I was shopping, and the Toyota Matrix came out on top...but I found it such a drag to drive and the rear visibility bugged me. I ended up going with the car I wanted, not the car that the excel table told me I should buy! There's something to be said for fun-to-driveness.

The Mazdas are very nice. I also like the Subaru Impreza WRX. I like actual driving with manual transmission, so that kind of performance is important to me.

[Irulan]

Older Jettas had reliability issues, it's true. My brother had one that went bonkers.

Rabbits/Golfs are made in Germany, as are all diesel models. Gas Jettas are made in Mexico or Brazil, but they seem to have fixed their issues, as Jettas are apparently not unreliable anymore as they were 10 years ago.

I've had no problems with my Rabbit. I created an elaborate decision matrix when I was shopping, and the Toyota Matrix came out on top...but I found it such a drag to drive and the rear visibility bugged me. I ended up going with the car I wanted, not the car that the excel table told me I should buy! There's something to be said for fun-to-driveness.

The Mazdas are very nice. I also like the Subaru Impreza WRX. I like actual driving with manual transmission, so that kind of performance is important to me.

Mazda 3 5-speed GT = "zoom zoom". :)

[Chile Pepper]

OK, I'm convinced. The Mazda 3 hatchback is going on my shortlist. My DH is leaning toward a sedan, but I've really like my last two hatchbacks. I officially start shopping today.

ETA: I just checked the Highway Safety Institute, and the Mazda 3 hatchback is one of their top picks for 2011.

[zoom-zoom]

Mazda 3 5-speed GT = "zoom zoom". :)

That's what I have, only the touring package, not GT. No cool HID headlights or leather/heated seats.

[Irulan]

That's what I have, only the touring package, not GT. No cool HID headlights or leather/heated seats.

HAD to have heated seats. :D

[zoom-zoom]

HAD to have heated seats. :D

I wanted them...DH was all "HTFU!" :rolleyes:

[ASammy1]

For what it's worth... I mentioned on the first page of this thread that my father loves his Dodge Journey... Anyway, my parents were in town this weekend to celebrate Easter with us (and 15 others), so we had to rent some tables and chairs in order for there to be appropriate dining accommodations. Well, we were able to fit 2 8' tables and 20 folding chairs in the back of his Journey without a problem.

Just thought I would share a real life scenario with this particular vehicle. I have no idea about gas mileage though as we are not in the market for a new car at this time.

[GLC1968]

I created an elaborate decision matrix when I was shopping, and the Toyota Matrix came out on top...but I found it such a drag to drive and the rear visibility bugged me. I ended up going with the car I wanted, not the car that the excel table told me I should buy! There's something to be said for fun-to-driveness.


I SO get this. Both that the Matrix has visiblity issues and it's not even a little fun to drive when it's an automatic and the concept of buying what you want and not necessarily what your analysis tells you. The "older" (pre 2007, I believe) Matrix had a different window config that was way better than the new ones for convenience (hatch glass!) and visiblity. And I'm pretty sure we would have traded ours in sooner had we not gotten the standard transmission. It's got a 'super charger' effect that really makes it zippy. I've had loaners in automatic and they absolutely did not have it at all. Unfortunately, the clutch on the standard sucks donkey balls, but we've gotten used to it after 5+ years.

The Matrix was the very first car I've ever purchased based solely on being 'practical'. I normally buy cars 1) for how they drive, 2) for how they fit my lifestyle and 3) for how they look. Hence...our next car (a 2011 MINI Clubman). ;)

[Irulan]

I wanted them...DH was all "HTFU!" :rolleyes:

LOL, my DH was all "huh?" until he used them a few times.

[Irulan]

(Tulip)I created an elaborate decision matrix when I was shopping, and the Toyota Matrix came out on top...but I found it such a drag to drive and the rear visibility bugged me.

Interesting. I had a spread sheet going too, but for me the Mazda came out on top. I was comparing the 3, the matrix. I wanted a small wagon, no Subaru, and that was what it narrowed down to.

[zoom-zoom]

When we were looking it was pretty much between the 3 and the Civic...I never even test drove the Civic, but DH tested both and said that there's no way I would have been as comfortable with the Civic, since the driver's seating wasn't nearly as flexible. It was more like the seating in my Escort, which wasn't short-person friendly...I practically ate the steering wheel in that car. In my 3 my arms are like they are on my bike...just crooked a bit at the elbow...nice and stretched-out. Much safer with an airbag, anyhow.

After test driving a 3 sedan (that was what the dealership had in manual) I was hooked and I think we ordered our hatchback that day. We will never again own a sedan. Hatchback/wagons are so much more practical and roomy. Hubby had an '89 Civic hatchback that he hauled windows in when we replaced a bunch. He'd put the back seat down and remove the passenger seat...amazing how much room that little car offered. He hauled 12' planks on top of it when we redid our floors, too. The only reason we will need a larger vehicle (though this is relative...we'd be looking at something like the Mazda 5 or Ford C-Max) for our next car is that DS is 10 and growing. He's not going to fit well in the back seat of my 3 for all that much longer.

[Chile Pepper]

DS is 10 and growing. He's not going to fit well in the back seat of my 3 for all that much longer.

Uh oh. This could be a problem. My two sons are 12 and 9.5. The 12 y-o has recently moved up front (he's a tall kid), but there are times when all of us are in the car or we're driving his friends, too, so some kids are usually in the back. And of course, the 9.5 y-o will not be 9.5 forever.

[BikeDutchess]

My DH loves his Mazda 3, but for me it has too many blind spots.