Saddle Quest 2011

[hulagirl]

<sigh>

I need help bad. I am about 2 months into Saddle Quest 2011 and ready to quit and go back to numb girly bits. :(

Here's the info:

I'm riding an Orbea Diva in a relatively neutral position. (My saddle is just about half an inch taller than my handlebars.) I spend 50% of my time on the hoods, 30% in the drops and 20% in aerobars. I am FAR more comfortable in the drops and aerobar than on the hoods. I do NOT have any back, hand, wrist or arm pain. It's all about the saddle. I'm 5'8, 146lbs. I do use Chamios cream and ride in lightly padded cycle shorts (Giordanna Carbon).

History:

I've always had numb toes. Always. No matter what bike I was on (Soft Ride, Specialized Vita, Orbea) it would start with a sharp pain on the left foot on the outside of the foot, then the toes/forefoot would go numb equally on both feet. Usually within 5 minutes of the ride.

On my hybrid (Specialized Vita) I have a Dolce 155 (http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=25507). Which seems fine as I'm more upright. But I do get the numb toes/left foot pain.

On my Orbea - I started with the Selle Italia Diva Lady Gel Flow (http://www.rei.com/webservices/rei/DisplayStyle/818892?source=gpla&cm_mmc=cse_froogle-_-datafeed-_-product-_-818892&mr:trackingCode=A55EB3EF-814A-E011-9D00-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA). Looks to be about 155mm wide. And I get the numb toes + numb junk. The numb toes and junk go away within 5 minutes of the end of the ride.

Then I was told that you don't have to have numb junk! And I thought "No freaking way!" LBS (triathlon shop where I got my Orbea) lady/instructor/coach SWORE by her Selle SMP saddle and informed me that they do a saddle swap. So I thought I'd try it out.

Started with the Avant. (http://www.smpselle.com/smp4bike/en/avant)

154mm wide is a pretty wide saddle. But based off my Dolce 155 I thought that would be good. The cut out was WONDERFUL. Junk is no longer numb. Toes = still numb, not as bad. But something new! That little area at the top inner part of your leg? Yeah...OUCH. Not the sit bone, just in front of it. Bruised and painful and just made me want to cry-but only on the left leg! But oh how I loved not having numb junk! Wow!

Tried the Pro (http://www.smpselle.com/smp4bike/en/pro) next. 148mm wide. Numb toes going away! Junk is happy, inside of left leg is hurting still. Maybe less with this one.

Next up: Lite 209. (http://www.smpselle.com/smp4bike/en/lite-209) 139mm wide. This one was VERY painful after about 30 miles. OUCH. Numb toes almost 100% gone. Left inner leg bruise/pain = hell.

Now I'm on the Dynamic (http://www.smpselle.com/smp4bike/en/dynamic). This one is 138mm wide. It have very little padding in the ridges along the cut out (which is what I was thinking was compressing into my leg/hip area). Problem is, it feels like I'm riding on a brick. Like 100% of my weight is now resting on that area just in front of my sit bones. I can feel the tendons and things getting compressed as I shift my weight. Toes are RARElY numb. Junk is a little numb - just starting to feel some compression there. But the inner left leg is really, really bad.

I went and had my LBS measure my bum on their Specialized Bum-measurer. 140 ish. Possible 145ish.

So there are my issues. Seems the wider seats cut off nerves and circulation to my toes. The thinner seats put way too much pressure on that area just in front of my seat bones - and 90% of the pain is on the left side. At this point I have 2 decisions: Numb/painful feet/toes and numb junk. Or incredible bruise/pain in saddle area of left leg.

I will say that the SMP saddles are HIGHLY comfortable for riding in the drops. But when I rotate forward I can feel the tendons in my left leg roll over that saddle ridge and I cringe. I find that I put weight into my legs/feet in order to relieve some of my saddle pain. And that might be contributing to the issue anyway. :confused: Coming up out of the drops is even more painful. Rolling back to my sit bones (which I'm never on BTW...is anyone? I'm only on them if I sit straight up hands-free) is worse than a root canal.

Any thoughts on this? The saddle is level. I may try to tilt it down just a hair and I might even knock the saddle to the right too. Dunno. I have a metric century in 1 week so I don't want mess with it too much. Should I try to move it forward? Back? I do find myself scooting back on the saddle now - but I think it's to alleviate some of the pressure on that inner leg area and spread it out. Shifting to the right or left more doesn't help anything.

I'm open to any thoughts, suggestions.

Many thanks for reading my book!

Denise

[hulagirl]

Thanks Muirenn! Some answers:

Had my sit-bones measured on the box at the LBS. Have not done it myself. Can't find a medium that will hold the indentations. (exercise mat, foam seat) Might have to do the bag of flour trick!

Bike fitting yes - for a VERY long time. I do not believe riding style has changed much. I do have a tighter right leg/hip issue that may be preventing me from extending my right leg as much. And I do unclip my right leg, so more weight in left leg.

Street shoes = 10 ish. Bike shoes 41.5 SIDI T1. I have had the numb toe issue in about 4 different pairs of bike shoes and I get it when I ride in gym shoes as well as Keen slippers.

Saddle position has been measured with the plum-bob technique. I'm supposedly right where I should be. Has been measured in the current saddle/shoes set up. I feel like I could go back further though.

The SMP Dynamic has a very, very gentle cutout area. It's almost flat. The more pronounced cutouts seem to make my toes numb - but less inner leg bruising. sigh...

I'm actually considering a Brooks. They are cheaper than the SMP!!!

[Biciclista]

what's wrong with trying a Brooks? people have been riding them for 100 years.
Just did a 68 mile ride Saturday (I'm 59 years old and way past menopause if you catch my drift) on my road bike with a B68 Brooks Imperial and my crotch was one of the few parts of me that wasn't hurting.
I am not sure about what is getting your toes, but geez, try a Brooks, it might solve both problems.
Welcome to TE.

[WindingRoad]

Yeah I wear a 9.5 - 10 street shoe and I actually just increased my shoe size in Sidi's b/c my 41.5's were just not working well. Love those shoes but they kill me after a while. I switched to a 43 but I also like to wear wool socks year round.

[Chicken Little]

Just from reading the post, wine glass in hand, and stabbing in the dark, I think your saddle is too high.
I also think I might be a bit tipsy.

[hulagirl]

Ah-ha! Self measured sit-bones 3 different ways comes out to a nearly spot on 150mm. That's center to center. 105mm closest points and 196 outside points. Geez!

That 138mm has to be way tiny then.

And holding up my paper "prints" shows me that my SI Diva is way thin too. How is this possible? Something aint right here.

Too high on the saddle? Hmm...I'll try to lower it a tad. I begin to get front knee pain rather quickly when I do that.

As for the Brooks: I'm not adverse to trying one. But it wasn't until recently that A) I saw one (not carried in Hawaii) and B) found a place that will allow you to try them. I'm a former horse lady - I KNOW the value of well-broken-in leather.

Not sure why shoe size is an issue. As I mentioned before - I got the numb toes in street shoes, slippers, bike shoes, Keen's, etc.

Thanks Muirenn - I read that thread and is why I posted. ;-) I don't know if I'll go so far as to photoshop all my saddles over each other. LOL!

[KnottedYet]

Knott has a glass of hard cider in hand, so take the following with a grain of salt-

Numb toes: dropped metatarsal head and/or toe box of various shoes is too narrow (though it is happening in Keens, so I'm betting on the dropped met head)

Saddle: your body is crying out for a narrow nose and wide sits.

Solve the toes: go to a good shoe store and ask for metatarsal arch support buttons. They go BEHIND the ball of your foot. Google "metatarsalgia" and "Morton's neuroma" and see if it sounds at all familiar. Also check "hot foot" here on TE. You also may be slightly too high for the way your ankles and feet prefer to work, see below.

Solve the saddle: try measuring your own sit bones. Rolling forward to relieve pressure is often a way of dealing with a too-narrow saddle. As you roll forward you go from the ischial tuberosities (wide) to the pubic rami (narrow) Make sure your saddle is at least as wide as your outside measurements. (A Brooks really needs to be at least 20mm wider than your outside measurements to keep you off of the metal cantle plate of the frame.) If you have a saddle handy that does have the width of your outside measurements, try using it and lowering your saddle slightly and moving it backward slightly. Your body might just prefer to work set back and down a bit (which it is faking by rolling forward as you get on narrower saddles) both for your feet and your buns. If you don't have one, or think your measurements are insanely wide, you probably ought to get one. (my sits are in the 180mm range, you can imagine what a thrill it was to finally find a saddle wide enough!)

Honestly, it doesn't matter why things work, only that they do work. The more you can investigate without spending money, the better. If you have a female fitter I'd suggest going back to her. I've corrected the fits for several women whose male fitters had set them up perfectly... if they had been men. Also, if you do decide to go the Brooks route I strongly recommend Wallingford Bicycle Parts. They have a 6 month free trial period on Brooks saddles. www.wallbike.com

ETA: ah, you measured and posted while I was drinking and posting. I suggest trying a Brooks B67 or Brooks B68 (NOT the B67-S "short" or the B68-S "short"), and don't be afraid to push the saddle all the way back on the rails if you feel like it. With 150mm center measurements, in all likelihood your outside is a good 170 or 180. I measure the bones directly with a tape measure, as I'm not sure the outside measurement can be accurately done with an imprint. (sit on your hands, move your fingertip to the outside of the bone you feel, leave fingers on chair, have someone measure the distance between your fingertips. Or ask someone you trust to measure your heinie directly.)

ETAA: Your experience with horse saddles is a big bonus here. Does it help to know that Brooks bike saddles are based on English horse riding saddles?

[hulagirl]

Knotted Yet - So happy you replied! Did you see my measurements?! Hot diggity dog they are huge! I mean 195-200mm outside points? Wow!

I've attached the "best" print I got. Am I doing this right?

http://bigdtv.com/yipee/photo.JPG

Oh jeez...that image is huge! Sorry!!!

[hulagirl]

I gotta say the "ribbed decking" that I sat on left the best imprint. Perhaps we should add that to a FAQ? LOL! I need to go drink some wine as well I see.

[warneral]

I have wide sitbones and really love my cheap 40.00 planet bike women's ars - http://www.amazon.com/Planet-Bike-5021-Standard-Anatomic/dp/B0015RASS6/ref=sr_1_22?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1301971178&sr=1-22

For my birthday I ordered the Brooks B17. I know I should have followed these ladies' advice and gone with the B68 but I was afraid it would look huge on my little bike. I'm sure it would since the B17 looks huge LOL!

Alas, my sitbones appear to be hitting the metal edging that the leather stretches over.

I'm considering trying the B68, but then again, I actually really like my planet bike saddle. I rode more mileage than I ever had last year and the saddle kept me from ever having any problems.

[KnottedYet]

I ETA'd my post above a couple times, might want to re-read and see if I added anything since you last read it. (I'm on glass of hard cider #2 now, and can't be trusted a bit!)

Add 20-40mm to your center measurement to guess at your outside measurement, or ask someone to help you measure your outside directly. I really don't trust imprints to do more than give a good center measurement.

Center is a very useful measurement. You want the center of the "cheeks" of a padded saddle to meet your bone centers. You want the outsides of the saddle to match the outsides (or be at least 20mm wider in the case of a Brooks or other suspended leather saddle) of the sit bones.

With a 150 c-to-c, you are going to have a hard time finding a padded saddle with 150mm cheek/dome span, and with a likely 170-190ish outside you are going to have a very hard time finding a wide enough saddle that isn't also insanely padded. (many companies think "wide" also means "super-padded.")

I'd go straight for the gusto and do the free trial on a Brooks B68 (no springs) or B67 (springs). I have both saddles on my various bikes. My favorite is the B67. I like that the springs give just enough under my lopsided pelvis. (they do not bounce, they are very very rigid springs)

[zoom-zoom]

Knot, while I have your cider-infused attention (man, I wish I had some cider right now, too!), can you share some of your knowledge here (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showpost.php?p=564970&postcount=37)... :D

ETA: my goofy Photoshopping to compare the footprint of the Jett 143 to the Donna (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?p=565345#post565345).

[ny biker]

Add 20-40mm to your center measurement to guess at your outside measurement, or ask someone to help you measure your outside directly. I really don't trust imprints to do more than give a good center measurement.

Center is a very useful measurement. You want the center of the "cheeks" of a padded saddle to meet your bone centers. You want the outsides of the saddle to match the outsides (or be at least 20mm wider in the case of a Brooks or other suspended leather saddle) of the sit bones.

This explains a lot!! Both the Specialized and Bontrager measuring things indicate I should be on a 145-ish saddle, which made no sense to me because it put the edges of my sit bones very close to the edges of the saddle. I measure about 120-125 mm center to center.

[hulagirl]

Oh man oh man am I going to look silly with a ginourmous Brooks B68 in triathlons! Like wearing a wetsuit for the open water swim in Hawaii! Eeek!

[KnottedYet]

Knot, while I have your cider-infused attention (man, I wish I had some cider right now, too!), can you share some of your knowledge here (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showpost.php?p=564970&postcount=37)... :D

ETA: my goofy Photoshopping to compare the footprint of the Jett 143 to the Donna (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?p=565345#post565345).

I "doed" it. (too much cider -snort-) LOVE the photoshop! You are awesome! :D

[KnottedYet]

Oh man oh man am I going to look silly with a ginourmous Brooks B68 in triathlons! Like wearing a wetsuit for the open water swim in Hawaii! Eeek!

Hey, I did it with a B67! With SPRINGS! (nobody laughs at you when you pass them...) Besides, your butt covers the saddle if the saddle fits. No-one sees the ginormous saddle under your ginormous... um.... sitbones. ;)

Seriously, you will be much faster if the saddle fits.

If the B68 doesn't fit, send it back to Wallingford and trade for a B17 or something, nothing lost. Bill Laine owns Wallingford, he's a curmudgeon but absolutely a sweetie underneath. Call him if you have troubles that you can't get answers for here on TE.

There are so many of us riding on Brooks saddles that you can probably get your answers here anyway.

And only some of us are curmudgeons. :p

[zoom-zoom]

I "doed" it. (too much cider -snort-) LOVE the photoshop! You are awesome! :D

Heh, that's what happens when I have expensive software...I barely scratch the surface of what it can do, but I can go totally OCD over saddle selection. :p

[hulagirl]

My husband just ran outside sans pants and took a print of his bum on our ribbed deck. He is eying my SI Diva saddle now. And My SMP is even too small for him!

I'm eyeing the Fizik Vitesse HP ( 270 X 180) as well as the B68 (which is out of stock over at Wallingford! Boo!). And hubby said "hey, if you get a Brooks, let me know! I'll get one too!" (He rides a Big Dummy.)

[Kitsune06]

Ok, Knot. Question. My ischial tuberosities are about 140mm center to center. According to Walbike, and Sheldon Brown, the B17 I have is 170mm wide, though it kinda LOOKS like my sit-dimples are pretty close to where the metal support frame is... the b17 ought to fit, right? or is the B17 one of those saddles that is better for super-low handlebars that have you up front on your rami?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

or is the B17 one of those saddles that is better for super-low handlebars that have you up front on your rami?

No, the B17 is not designed for extreme forward racing position with super low handlebars. B17 and B68 are at their best with a semi-upright position or a 'modified' forward position. They are designed with the goal of having your weight centered squarely on your sitbones.

[KnottedYet]

I'm eyeing the Fizik Vitesse HP ( 270 X 180) as well as the B68 (which is out of stock over at Wallingford! Boo!). And hubby said "hey, if you get a Brooks, let me know! I'll get one too!" (He rides a Big Dummy.)

The runner-up in my saddle world is the Fizik. If I couldn't have my B67 and B68, I'd do the Fizik. (I ended up giving mine away, but it was a close thing.)

The Fizik might fit you perfectly (since it isn't a domed saddle the c-to-c isn't so finicky) so it wouldn't hurt to give it a try if the B68 is unavailable. Just make sure there is a return policy with whomever you buy it from.

And you probably wouldn't feel goofy riding it in a triathlon. ;)

[hulagirl]

I just fell in love with the Finesse Titanium! (http://www.brooksengland.com/en/Shop_ProductPage.aspx?cat=saddles+-+road+%26+mtb&prod=Finesse+Titanium)

[hulagirl]

Well, I'm not sure the B17 or B68 will work if they aren't good for riding in drops or aero bars. I worry about that as I do spend a bit of time in the drops and bars.

Thoughts on the Finesse? (http://www.wallbike.com/brooks/unsprung-saddles/finesse)

[KnottedYet]

Well, I'm not sure the B17 or B68 will work if they aren't good for riding in drops or aero bars. I worry about that as I do spend a bit of time in the drops and bars.
[/URL]

They are fine for drops and aerobars, if they match your pelvis. The only way to find out is to try them. (I ride in the drops a lot on my Brooks, no problem at all.) It really depends on how high your pubic symphysis is relative to the contact points of your ischial tuberosities, and I don't know of ANY short-cut or test to figure that out. Just plain old trial and error.

That's where a generous trial period for saddles is your friend.

ETA: and I would be worried the Finesse would be too narrow for you. Remember, the metal cantle plate takes 20mm from the area you can plant your sit bones. Your 150 c-to-c sits would probably be hitting the plate on their edges on a 170mm Brooks saddle. Before trying a Finesse, I'd try the Fizik. You can plant your bones on the entire 180mm Fizik, but you can't use the outer 1cm on each side of the Finesse because the metal plate is under there. In essence, the Fizik is 180mm wide and the Finesse is 150mm wide. Sort of.)

[hulagirl]

I've written to Wallingford and my Local Tri shop (LTS) that is doing my saddle swap now with the SMP's.

LTS responded right away and offered me the entire rack of saddles. Everything from Adamo to Fizik (hopefully they have the 180mm that I'm looking at) to a whole slew of Terry. They might even bring in a Cobb saddle for me to try. (If I get one, I will need to call it my Cobb Salad!) Being that I have a Metric Century ride this Sunday, I'll start locally to find something to ride. I'm still interested in the Brooks but not sure if I will go the B68 Imperial (can't as they are out of it right now) or the B17 Imperial. I risk nothing to try it out so I might as well!

Thanks for all the input ladies. I'll keep you all posted with what I find.

Mahalo and aloha!

Denise

[hulagirl]

Any experience on the Selle An-Atomica saddles? I'm just researching options, no decisions made yet!

[warneral]

hey that's great that you can try different types on loan!!! congrats :)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

You should know that Wallingford will not accept a Brooks back if you have applied anything to to it except Brooks brand "Pruf-hyde/Proof-Hide" (or however it's spelled). So don't be rubbing neatsfoot oil or other stuff into it if you plan on returning it.

Also, for those looking for saddles- please be aware that there is a whole section here on TE under "Gear..." that has MANY saddles reviews and threads, including "Favorite saddles" and "Hated saddles", plus many more. The saddle you are considering may already have been reviewed with many comments in that section. Try using the SEARCH function here on TE- punch in your saddle name and you may be amazed what's already been posted about it.

[hulagirl]

Update after epic "try-on-every-saddle-in-the-shop" day.

Tried:
Fizik Vitesse Tri - 142mm no channel = evil pain
Fizik Aliante Versus - 142mm "groove" = hanging over the thing, groove is useless
Adamo Podium 130mm - sit bones hung over the edge. I call this "evil pitch-fork" seat.
Terry Falcon - 152mm = getting better, but channel turns into jaws of death.
Terry Liberator Gel - 162mm = HEY! What's this odd feeling under my sit-bones? Why, it's a saddle! How odd! Even in aero it isn't that bad. But there is so much padding that the channel turns into jaws of death munch on my girlie bits.

The LIberator was the least evil of them all. I have the demo version of that saddle so it's what I will use for a 20 mile ride tomorrow and I might use it for the metric century this weekend. It's labeled demo so I don't feel bad riding in it and taking it back. I do miss the wonderful channels on the SMP saddles, but not riding on my girly bits. ;-)

Haven't heard from Wallingford or the Selle An-Atomica folks yet. Will let you know when I order. Thanks Lisa for the info on the return policy.

[hulagirl]

Sheila - my hubby has that one in the 175. And it goes to show you how wonderful our LBS is as his sit bones measure 97mm c-c! He's not happy in that thing. And I've tried it and feel is not that nice. Why they place the seams where they did on that thing I will never know!

I'm thinking I might just jump into the B68-I as I can always put it on my hybrid! ;-)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

And I have a feeling if we do get the Brooks, they'll end up jumping from bike to bike;)

If you end up liking the Brooks that much, you'll do like my husband and I did- get 5 of them for our 5 bikes. :D

[Kitsune06]

Woah there, Lisa!
Not everyone can make a $500 investment in leather toys and accessories all at once! Just playin'. :D Really, though, one step at a time, one day at a time. I remember one of your quotes awhile ago saying in another Brooks thread about how some people have love-at-first-sit for their Brooks, and some, not so much. The LAFS people are usually happier in the long run. What that might mean for you is that if you're not immediately happy with your Brooks, consider returning it for a different model before you invest the time, effort, and sitbone bruising in a saddle that will just never be right for you. I completely agree.
Brooks isn't just an accessory, it's a relationship. :)

[Kitsune06]

Yeah, I've invested way too much time in a couple saddles that just weren't right. Selle Anatomica, all my Specialized saddles and a Terry ended with "It's not you, it's me". My B17 seems alright though. :)

[bellissima]

Denise, from what you are describing I believe you should have a real bike fitter look at you, even if you had a bike fit done before it does not mean that was done correctly. Try looking for a fitter that is well known, one that deals with issues, specially has experience with females and not one that only sets up the bike. You’ll be amazed what a real fitter can see and also do for you.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Well, our 5 brooks saddles were all bought over a period of 4 years or so, and for much less than a hundred bucks each...two of them were bought used. Not $500, more like $350 for two people, spread over 4 years. No big whoop considering how many serial saddles some folks buy. The best part is that Brooks saddles often last for more than 20, or even 30 years, unlike plastic and padded or gel saddles. i had to sell two B17's when I realized I really needed the wider B68 for my two bikes. But when it fits well, it'll last forever. Brooks can be bought used at a good savings, and because they are so incredibly durable it's better than when you buy most other saddles used. :)

[hulagirl]

Denise, from what you are describing I believe you should have a real bike fitter look at you, even if you had a bike fit done before it does not mean that was done correctly. Try looking for a fitter that is well known, one that deals with issues, specially has experience with females and not one that only sets up the bike. You’ll be amazed what a real fitter can see and also do for you.

Thanks for the suggestion. I ride and train with an all women's group here in Hawaii. One of the coaches is one of the best and widely known bike "guru's" here in Hawaii. He checks bike fit at the beginning of the training session and again at the end as your position changes. He spends quite a long time with each gal and will also do the same thing when you switch saddles, add aero-bars, etc.

The one thing I can say that I have had is a very, very good bike fit. I've had my Orbea since October and spent a good 2 hours on initial bike fit + another 4 hours since that time with more bike fitting.

[Biciclista]

of course different saddles put you in a different position that might require you go go back to your guru... ?

[hulagirl]

of course different saddles put you in a different position that might require you go go back to your guru... ?

Yes, he checks things when we switch saddles/ask due to saddle issues. That's the first thing he does is re-fit the rider to the bike.

[bellissima]

Thanks for the suggestion. I ride and train with an all women's group here in Hawaii. One of the coaches is one of the best and widely known bike "guru's" here in Hawaii. He checks bike fit at the beginning of the training session and again at the end as your position changes. He spends quite a long time with each gal and will also do the same thing when you switch saddles, add aero-bars, etc.

The one thing I can say that I have had is a very, very good bike fit. I've had my Orbea since October and spent a good 2 hours on initial bike fit + another 4 hours since that time with more bike fitting.
Denise, that is great. I am glad you are doing this the right way and with help of an expert. :)

[TrekTheKaty]

What Knot said. I'm drinking wine;-)

However, as a side--my numb toes came from a back problem--a pinched nerve between lower back and hip.

Did she say Keen sandals? I found them way too narrow.

I also recommend a Brooks.

Bike fits aren't the end all--I started riding farther forward on my bars and tilted my seat down ever-so-slightly.

[hulagirl]

Post Metric Century Update:

(as we are discussing saddles, girlie bits may be brought up, just FYI!)

So, I completed a wonderful Metric Century ride yesterday with my Try Fitness training gals. I rode the Terry Liberator X Gel for the 2nd time ever. It was a very interesting experiment.

First off - we had a horrible head wind for the first 20 miles. Then a cross wind/head wind for 10. We kept a pace-line with 3 minutes at the front and then about 18-20 min in the pack. Heading out we fought to maintain a 15 mph average and were told NOT to go over 16. Gotta work at everyone's abilities, not just your own.

I spent a lot of time in aero/drops when I was rider 1 and 2. Just made life easier all around. And helped keep the hands, arms, shoulders, happy.

So - having lubed up with Hoo Ha ride glide (love that stuff!) I was a happy girl for most of the ride. At around the 25k mark, I was getting an "oddness" down below. It was mostly in the front. Not near the sit bones or even in the middle. Almost felt like things were getting jammed up front. I kept trying to pull my cycling shorts back towards my bum. It was up front in the pubic mound. (Such wonderful names for these things.) 60 miles of mashing that into a saddle has left its toll.

The Terry does have an opening, but due to the cushioning, I think it closes off. The SMP's have a more rigid construction. And the opening does not close. It was wonderfully comfortable for aero and drop riding! But everything else made me cry! But they don't make a wide enough version for me so blah to that!

My LTS (Local tri shop) that this saddle is a demo from (brand new demo too) texted me after the ride asking how it went. I told her the issue and she said I should try to tilt it down just a hair. Which I will. (it's currently level)

Everything else on me - sit bones, rami, etc doesn't even FEEL like I did ANYTHING yesterday. No rawness, no tenderness, no pressure points, NOTHING. Did the saddle "disappear"? Not 100%. Maybe not even 50%. But it was DRAMATICALLY different than the other 6 saddles I've ridden.

And one other thing - there wasn't even a tingle of toe/foot numbness the whole time!

I'm quite happy with my post-ride feelings. I think the (hope) the pubic mound pressure can be eliminated with a down tilt. I have a sprint Tri coming up this Sunday. Short bike ride, but I will spend a lot of the time in aero so I'll see how that goes.

Hopefully this info will assist anyone with my wide-a$$ sit bones. :cool:

Denise

[Biciclista]

sounds like you are doing great! what does SMP stand for again?

[hulagirl]

sounds like you are doing great! what does SMP stand for again?

That's the Selle line of saddles.