Interesting article on city life and the brain

[Jolt]

This article came out a couple of years ago but I happened upon it today and thought it was interesting:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/01/04/how_the_city_hurts_your_brain/?page=full

I know that my own experiences are consistent with what they're saying in the article...being in a big city can be total overload (especially NYC--Boston for some reason is a lot more manageable unless I have to drive). How about everyone else?

[Crankin]

Yes.
I wouldn't have agreed a few years ago. I love being close enough to easily take advantage of the culture and restaurants, but I need to be back in the country and open space to keep sane.
Right before we started riding we seriously thought we would sell our house and move to a house in a close in suburb, i.e. might as well be the city. We quickly realized that our lifestyle just just changed too much.
Too overstimulating for me.

[OakLeaf]

A few years ago I visited Valencia, Spain, which is often cited as an example of urban planning. I don't know what the local ordinances are specifically, but it seemed plain that a certain amount of green space is required on every commercial lot, besides the large swaths of public parkland. I had a wonderful visit, but more than that, it seemed like an immensely livable city. People were always out on the streets, strolling, playing soccer, walking their dogs (and never picking up after them :rolleyes:).

I love to visit big cities, but I never imagined I could live in one. I enjoyed living in Columbus, Ohio, but I love my country life, too.

[Koronin]

I prefer living just outside a large city. I love being close to anything I need or want, but just far enough away to not be right in it all the time. I also hate living too far away. Where we currently live is alright, although I miss being closer to certain things. The city we now live in (actually bought a house just outside the city limits) is alright and has most things, but I still end up taking trips either to Wilmington (1 hour away) or Raleigh (2 hours away) for certain things. That is the major thing I miss about living just outside of Charlotte. On the other hand living a half hour from the beach is great.

[shootingstar]

Well no, I find suburbs boring. I avoided looking for a place to live out in 'burbs when I moved a few months ago. So glad I did.

My parents lived out in the burbs in a city of 175,000 people for a decade. Whenever I visited them in their pleasant neighbourhood..I was bored. With no children, I associate the suburbs as not enough to do personally in a covenient way.

I think most of you folks have a car. I don't.

So that ends it for me. I couldn't live in the heart of downtown Toronto where it is overload..at times. But I have lived near major streets, etc. Where I lived in Vancouver was downtown but overlooking a body of water.

Yes, I like being near park, trees on street, etc. Streets with sidewalks, etc.

[OakLeaf]

Oh, I don't think she's talking about suburbs. Where I live is definitely NOT suburban, just maybe not "country" as real country people define it. But without a car, I guess it would be the same difference.

I'm the same way. Where I live now, I can drive 45 minutes to an hour to get a good restaurant meal, hear a concert or see an art-house movie or live show. That's close enough to do every couple-three weeks, and it's enough for me to feel like I'm engaged with the outside world. In the past, I lived where it was a 2-1/2 hour drive to the nearest small city, and I found that tremendously stifling. I didn't have a car at the time, but it wouldn't have made that much of a difference if I had, it's still too far to go regularly.

[Crankin]

Where I live is suburbia, but, almost rural. We live in a neighborhood with 2 acre lots, woods, and hiking trails. There are 2 town centers (about 4 miles away), and shopping, but more of the independent business types of stores and restaurants. We don't allow chain stores here, except one CVS and one Rite Aid. It's quiet here and at night, no one is out on the streets after 7 PM or so. It takes me about 30-40 minutes to drive to Boston, if there's no traffic, and about 20 minutes to drive to "close-in" suburbs, with more stores and restaurants. I like the fact that I can take the commuter rail into the city, if I want.
I couldn't imagine having to drive 2 hours to get to decent stores, etc. I find this is perfect; in fact tons of cyclists from the city come to this area to ride... crowding up the roads for people like me who live here!

[shootingstar]

It takes me about 30-40 minutes to drive to Boston, if there's no traffic, and about 20 minutes to drive to "close-in" suburbs, with more stores and restaurants. I like the fact that I can take the commuter rail into the city, if I want.


Nice to be close to alot of options. :)
I actually am genuinely puzzled why people even talk about moving into retirement communities after they downsize, etc. Why would I want to be around alot of people who are the same abilities, begining to die off, get very sick all around me?

There is no need until one gets really frail/very ill. One just has to completely change their mind set to consider living in a more urban area where it is close to alot of services, etc. My partner's mother lived in downtown Vancovuer herself (apartment) until...she was 91 for a few years until she had to go into a nursing home. For certain, if she lived in the suburbs, she would have been isolated big time. She didn't drive.

But perhaps people fall into this line of thinking if they are lived in near rural areas for several decades.

People associate city with crime...well, I have to say crime is moving out to the suburbs in certain areas...because it hides crap...in Vancouver suburbs, there is still car theft, car break-ins and home invasion, domestic violence, drug grow-ops ...because people are more isolated, removed, etc.

[Crankin]

There is no way I would move to a retirement community. Who wants to be with a bunch of "old people?" My parents were (are) the same way.
DH and I are most likely going to move to a townhouse that is within walking distance of one of our "downtowns." I would say we have about 5-8 years before this happens. That means we would, in theory, be able to do grocery shopping, etc. by bike in good weather. And, walk to the train, restaurants.
And no more riding up the 12% grade hill to get home. The areas we are targeting are flat, for at least 5-7 miles in most directions.
Although, we have eliminated one condo complex that is right in the center, as I have never seen anyone under 70 go in or out of that place. It's not a "senior" living place officially, but it seems to have turned into one. Too bad, though. It's right across from the place Hirakukibou and I meet for our rides.

[PamNY]

Moving into a retirement community isn't something I look forward to. However, there is more to it than wanting the company of other old people. Continuing care retirement communities can be a way of maintaining independence and avoiding placing a burden on families.

One of my dearest friends made the continuing care choice a few years ago (and it wasn't an easy one). She recently had three bad falls (syncope and muscular weakness did her in) and just got out of the hospital. Thanks to her realistic planning, her kids are not scrambling around fretting over "what to do about Mom."

She may need to move to the assisted living part of her community. I hope she doesn't, but if she does, she will have maintained as much independence and dignity as humanly possible.

Her choice may not be right for everyone, but I understand why she made it.

[malkin]

Our little city just isn't big enough to overwhelm.

Having "City" as part of the name is rather like the "Green" in Greenland (which is to say, it isn't).

[PamNY]

There are a couple of things I would question about the article. I understand the benefits of green space; it's downright comical how passionate New Yorkers (including me) become over the tiniest bit of green space.

However, I don't think walking in NYC is anymore stressful than the driving that would be necessary in a rural or suburban setting. NYC is very, very entertaining and keeps me in a better mood than driving past miles of bleak strip malls. Also, I feel so much guilt in using a car -- cranking up this huge machine to purchase a spool of thread makes me feel as if I am personally destroying the planet.

I worry much more about crime when I'm outside the city -- I'm used to people, lights and police being everywhere I go. Parking lots in shopping malls terrify me, the more so if guns are sold in the store I'm going to.

Of course, that's just a matter of what one is accustomed to. It would be interesting to know if subjects in the studies cited were familiar with the urban areas where the research was conducted.

It's not entirely true that there's a "stark lack of nature" in cities. Pigeons, for example, are fascinating. Sparrows, the ultimate opportunistic nesters, are another example -- arguably more interesting to observe in an urban setting than in the woods. There probably is a stark lack of people who pay attention to such things.

I also question whether exposure to stores selling food leads to more eating. You get used to something you see ten times a day. I would think temptation would be greater for people who visit a shopping mall once a week.

[Jolt]

There are a couple of things I would question about the article. I understand the benefits of green space; it's downright comical how passionate New Yorkers (including me) become over the tiniest bit of green space.

However, I don't think walking in NYC is anymore stressful than the driving that would be necessary in a rural or suburban setting. NYC very, very entertaining and keeps me in a better mood than driving past miles of bleak strip malls. Also, I feel so much guilt in using a car -- cranking up this huge machine to purchase a spool of thread makes me feel as if I am personally destroying the planet.

I worry much more about crime when I'm outside the city -- I'm accustomed to people, lights and police being everywhere I go. Parking lots in shopping malls terrify me, the more so if guns are sold in the store I'm going to.

Of course, that's just a matter of what one is accustomed to. It would be interesting to know if subjects in the studies cited were familiar with the urban areas where the research was conducted.

It's not entirely true that there's a "stark lack of nature" in cities. Pigeons, for example, are fascinating. Sparrows, the ultimate opportunistic nesters, are another example -- arguably more interesting to observe in an urban setting than in the woods. There probably is a stark lack of people who pay attention to such things.

I also question whether exposure to stores selling food leads to more eating. You get used to something you see ten times a day. I would think temptation would be greater for people who visit a shopping mall once a week.

I appreciate your perspective as someone who lives in a large city, and I think you're probably right that it partly depends on what one is used to (that is probably why I do OK in Boston, which is a familiar place, but go a little crazy in NYC). I also agree that doing a lot of driving is stressful and comes with some guilt--I will soon be moving for a new job and am really happy about how much less driving I will be having to do (the job is in a smaller town that has pretty much everything one needs and appears far more bike-friendly than where I am now, and I will find a place to live that is within biking distance to work). However, based on my experiences on trips to NYC I personally find it really stressful walking/taking the subway around the city--just too many (unpredictable) people too close, and too much noise, and the feeling that if something bad happened it would be hard to get away from the situation because things are so crowded. Maybe part of it has to do with personality differences; it would be interesting to give a personality test to a bunch of people and then study their responses to city vs. more natural environments and see what the differences are. Some people thrive on "chaos" and being around a lot of people all the time; others (like me) need our space and like things a little quieter.

Here's an interesting website about different types of attention that ties in with this discussion: http://www.troutfoot.com/attn/index.html
The parts about "directed attention fatigue" relate to this topic.

[PamNY]

Jolt, the concept of "directed attention fatigue" is fascinating. Very relevant to the original discussion; it would be interesting to see research that controlled for more variables.

I think DAF explains something I experience a lot -- which is absolute exhaustion after 2 hours at most parties. A small group of close friends is a different thing, but a roomful of strangers exhausts me. I think that concept explains it.

[Jolt]

I think DAF explains something I experience a lot -- which is absolute exhaustion after 2 hours at most parties. A small group of close friends is a different thing, but a roomful of strangers exhausts me. I think that concept explains it.

I agree...the same thing happens to me at events where I have to interact with a bunch of strangers. It also definitely explains how I feel in big cities...my best friend and I were in NYC for a couple of days once, and on the second day she finally had to drop me off in Central Park and tell me to go for a run while she went into a museum--I was so stressed out and on edge from the overload that I was driving her crazy! That day was a perfect example of some of the symptoms of DAF including being irritable, moody, unable to concentrate, more impatient, and unable to handle noise and commotion...you can imagine I wasn't a very pleasant person to be around at that time. I've also realized this happens to me at work sometimes...right now I am doing agency nursing which is basically being a substitute nurse for nursing homes etc. In other words, always going to unfamiliar places where I am expected to multitask in the midst of a bunch of chaos and interruptions, doing a job that requires a lot of vigilance to avoid making errors but really isn't very interesting (mainly passing a whole lot of meds)--great recipe for DAF if there ever was one. Maybe that's why after a shift I always have a major urge to go for a hike or trail run once I get some sleep to recover. I am very glad that I will soon be working in one place, doing something a whole lot more interesting (where "learned fascination" rather than directed attention will be the primary type of attention used, to use the terms presented in that theory). Now if I could just get that paperwork to go through faster...

[shootingstar]

Perhaps what some people may object is the hyper pacing of some big metropolitan cities downtown.. I notice how much more "faster" paced in terms of people walking, etc. in Toronto whenever I go back to visit family and friends. I find I have to consciously relax/be contemplative for an hr. or so. Cycling helps. Then (shrug) it's fine. I did live there for over 15 years.

Vancouver is "slower", which to some people from the rural area, they think it's more hyper than a rural area.

It maybe the density of crowds.

There are calm people who live a big chunk of their lives in a big city.

Pam, I know what you mean about having on-call medical care for independent elderly. My partner's mother was in such a facility, new apartment building right in the downtown core of Vancouver.

As for the retirement community thing...my parents are not anything like yet maybe soon in a few years. They live within 5 min. walk from grocery store (which we're all glad), across from an elementary school, parkette and a 5 min. walk from transit bus stop. They just live in a family oriented residential neighbourhood. They've been there for over a decade. They moved from a city of 200,000.

This about 5 kms. from downtown Toronto...which is relatively close given Toronto's width of 60 kms. radius in the amalgamated city with over 2 million people. I think it might be well over 3 million counting all the other suburbs ringing it..

Sounds terrible? No, Toronto has a ravine park system that runs through the middle of the city (I used to bike it everyday for work commuting.) and lots of ethnic neighbourhoods, etc.

My partner retired 10 years ago but then later started up his own little company for part-time. Are/were we living in a retirement community? Nope. Really, you can't beat living in an neighbourhood if our LBS is 3 min. down the street, with 10-15 min. walk of stores, restaurants, etc., light rail transit stations (2), etc. Sporting goods stores are 15 min. bike ride away, etc. Even (3) farmers' markets at least 6 months of the year are in the heart of downtown.

This is in the heart of downtown Vancouver. Which to me, is tame compared to Toronto, traffic wise and crowd wise.

But if living in the country helps a person. Great and if you have a car, even better. Right? I dunno, when turning 80 yrs., think about your own driving abilities. Scary.

Not all cities are horrible places. Some cities are genuinely working hard to make them more liveable rather than places to escape from.

[PamNY]

The main city thing that I think really adds stress is noise. Of course crime would as well; I am lucky enough to live in a safe neighborhood.

But crime can happen anywhere, so I don't know if that counts as an urban stress.

And I am exceptionally good at using city parks -- today I went to one Trader Joe's instead of another because I could use a route that allowed me to walk through Central Park. Takes an additional 15-20 minutes but worth it.

[Jolt]

The main city thing that I think really adds stress is noise. Of course crime would as well; I am lucky enough to live in a safe neighborhood.

But crime can happen anywhere, so I don't know if that counts as an urban stress.

And I am exceptionally good at using city parks -- today I went to one Trader Joe's instead of another because I could use a route that allowed me to walk through Central Park. Takes an additional 15-20 minutes but worth it.

Noise is definitely a big contributing factor, but even worse IMO is crowding/congestion. Walking down a sidewalk where you're elbow to elbow with random strangers just sucks, as does not being able to see very far ahead because you're short and are right behind a bunch of taller people. Of course, being familiar with the city probably helps one avoid those situations as much as possible (like your example about walking through Central Park to get to TJ's).