Touring Bike conundrum

[carback]

I currently own a Vitali touring bike, purchased in 1997. Unfortunately, I didn't ask the right questions when I bought the bike at that time, and ended up with a less-than-enough-granny-gear scenario for loaded touring in mountainous terrain (which is pretty much the only type of touring I do).

The reader's digest version is that I've been to the bike shop several times to try to get a gear or two added (I seem to not be able to spin up steep hills while others, with different gearing have no problem; it is not leg strength - it is gearing). I now have one more gear and short of buying a new bike, there is nothing they can do (I asked if I could get a whole new set of gears etc of a mountain bike type but apparently they can't because I have Campy and Campy isn't compatible with Shimano blah blah blah).

Anyhow....here's the conundrum: I would consider selling this touring bike and starting all over as I know other manufacturers sell much better touring gear options on their bikes (mine is currently a 52/42/30 with a 12/26 in the rear; Trek & Cannondale offer a 11-32 cassette giving me many more options).

Sorry - here's the problem. I am 4'11". My touring bike has 700 cc wheels and I belive is 43cm. I probably don't fit it all that great in terms of clearance /stand over height (now that i know how good a 650 cc wheeled bike feels (my road bike is that)) but does anyone know of any TOURING bike manufacturers out there who actually make bikes with a smaller stand-over height (i.e 26") but still have a 700cc wheel?

Or any other suggestions as to how I might be able to fix my existing touring bike so that I can have better gearing (the guy at the LBS told me that it wasn't possible short of buying a new bike).

[SadieKate]

How many speeds are you running on the cassette? The 9 sp Veloce cassette goes to 28. One of our local randonneur riders runs a SRAM/Campy combo to get low gearing. Does TA make a chainring smaller than 30? You may have to get smaller chainrings across the board to make sure the derailleur works.

Not sure if you want to do business with a California shop, but you could give Joe at Davis Wheelworks a call or email and ask his opinion.

[carback]

In the reader's digest version I neglected to mention that the LBS did try to put on a different cassette as well as a 28T chain ring. The problem was that the chain didn't clear the front derrailleur plate so we had to go back to the 30T.
We did change out the rear cassette from the 12/26 to 12/28 but there is still chain drag when I am in the 'harder' granny gears (which is in theory fine as I will more than likely only use my smaller granny gears and otherwise be in the middle chain ring).

Thanks for the info on Davis Wheelworks. While I live in Canada, I certainly could envision a trip to California for 'research'. The biggest thing is being able to test drive something beforehand.

Thanks


QUOTE=SadieKate]How many speeds are you running on the cassette? The 9 sp Veloce cassette goes to 28. One of our local randonneur riders runs a SRAM/Campy combo to get low gearing. Does TA make a chainring smaller than 30? You may have to get smaller chainrings across the board to make sure the derailleur works.

Not sure if you want to do business with a California shop, but you could give Joe at Davis Wheelworks a call or email and ask his opinion.[/QUOTE]

[SadieKate]

Joe's email is: questions@daviswheelworks.com

I question the 28T chainring with 52T. I'm not sure if a Campy derailleur is happy with that big of a jump. Joe did something on Amy's bike to give her low, low gears. He and I had a discussion on these same lines a few weeks ago but I don't remember the details.

While a trip to CA is always nice, I'm sure he can advise and then supply parts. I know that SRAM or TA was in the discussion.

[DeniseGoldberg]

While I can understand wanting to try to re-gear an existing bike, I am a bit confused about your requirement to stick with 700c wheels on a new bike. It seems to me that you are going to have a pretty hard time finding a frame that fits your height. Are you concerned about finding replacements on the road for the smaller size (650 or smaller) wheels?

The reason I ask is that I have 2 touring bikes. One has 700c wheels, and the other is a Bike Friday with 406 wheels. And both bikes have identical gearing. With the Bike Friday I don't have the luxury of walking into just any bike shop on my route and buying a replacement tire, but then again even with the 700c small bike shops often don't carry good touring tires. When I travel with the Bike Friday I often bring a spare tire with me. When I rode across the USA (http://denise2002xc.crazyguyonabike.com) and decided to replace my tires mid-trip, I just called Bike Friday and had them ship new tires to me (on route).

Of course if it's a "I don't want to spend the money for a new bike right now" issue, that is definitely understandable. But if you are looking at a replacement touring bike, I would consider the smaller wheel size in order to get a frame that fits.

--- Denise

[Pedal Wench]

Also, Campy has a bigger cassette available - a 13-29 with a triple should really be a huge improvement. Check out Sheldon Brown's online gear calculator - enter what you have and what you can get to see the improvements www.sheldonbrown.com

[emily_in_nc]

Hi carback ~

I'd like to second what Denise has said. I too have a Bike Friday touring bike (Pocket Crusoe) with 20" wheels. I had the bike built with gearing down to 17", I believe it is (30-42-53 chainrings, 11-32T Shimano XT cog), and this enabled me to ride loaded in the Adirondacks last fall. I'm not a strong climber and was still slower than my husband, and he carried more weight, but the point is, I made it up those climbs! I am 5'2", and with the 20" wheels I have absolutely no toe overlap, and the bike handles great. We carried extra tubes and one extra tire, but neither of us got so much as one flat in 9 days of riding approximately 63 miles per day, so we got lucky.

I have just posted on another thread here that I don't understand why so many women seem to be hung up on 700c-wheeled bikes at any cost. At 4'11", I have a hard time imagining that any 700c-wheeled bike is going to fit you optimally. Not that you can't ride it, but it's not the best choice. At your height, like mine, chances are a bike with 650c wheels (or smaller, like a Bike Friday, or a bike with two different wheel sizes, like a Terry) is going to fit and handle a lot better. Sure, the tubes and tires are a little harder to find, but so long as you plan in advance, there are many choices out there. Bike Friday offers a huge selection of 406 wheelsets and tires for my little-wheeled bike.

The nice thing about Bike Fridays is that they fold for easy transport on a plane (in the hard-case suitcase that goes as regular luggage), train, or even in your car, where they don't look like a bike (nice for security). That can be nice for getting to the start of a tour. I'm not trying to sell you on a Bike Friday in particular, but just wanted to point out an option you might not have considered. They are all built custom for your size, so you'd be guaranteed to get a touring bike that fits and has PLENTY of standover, with the one lower top tube. My husband loves his too! You can see pictures of us touring with ours last fall here, if you're interested:
Emily and Barry's NY State Bike Tour (http://home.mebtel.net/~emilys7/index.htm)

I definitely think you're on the right track trying to achieve lower gearing on your touring bike, but do keep your mind open to other options than a 700c-wheeled bike. At 4'11", I have a strong feeling that you will be much more comfortable on a smaller-wheeled bike and be able to easily get the gearing you need for loaded touring in the mountains.

Good luck!

Emily

[carback]

thank you everyone for your replies.

Not sure what I'm going to do yet but all of your ideas are very helpful.

[SadieKate]

Couple of querstions:

Pedal_Wench: is that 13-29 Cassette an 8 or 9 speed or is it a 10 spd? Car's bike is old enough her levers are 8 or 9.

Emily - your crankset and levers are Campy, right? What rear deraillleur are you using with the Shimano XT cassette? This could be a good solution though Car's hubs are probably Campy-compatible. I think you can get a Shimano to Campy adaptor for cassettes but not vice versa. Hmm, I'm curious about the details of your drivetrain and wheels.

[emily_in_nc]

Emily - your crankset and levers are Campy, right? What rear deraillleur are you using with the Shimano XT cassette? This could be a good solution though Car's hubs are probably Campy-compatible. I think you can get a Shimano to Campy adaptor for cassettes but not vice versa. Hmm, I'm curious about the details of your drivetrain and wheels.

Hi SK ~ I do have Campy Chorus components, but on my Aegis Swift road bike. I have a 13-29 (it's 10-speed) cassette in back for hill climbing, but it's not a touring bike, and the low gearing only goes down to 29", which would not be enough for me in mountains with a load, I'm quite sure, even if I could tour on this bike (which I can't b/c it's carbon and can't do racks). The Shimano XT cogset is on my Bike Friday, which is all Shimano (Ultegra in the front). I tried to get Bike Friday to mix Campy and Shimano on my bike so that I could have the Campy Ergopower shifters in front, since I love them, but they said they could not do it and retain good shifting on the bike (perhaps the small wheels were the limiting factor there?), so I went with all Shimano (but bar-con shifters instead of STI, since they're easier to repair if they should have problems on a tour, and b/c I don't like the front shifting on a triple with Shimano STI - I have that on on my Terry road bike).

So (whew, that was a mouthful!!)... I'm not sure if what you are suggesting woudl work for carfree or not...sorry!

Emily

[carback]

Yikes, I'm starting to feel as confused as I did in University calculus.

My hubs are Campy and therefore, according to the LBS, not shimano compatible.

And my cassette is an 8-speed.

I find this all so frustrating because 1) I wish I had known to ask these types of questions 8 years ago when I bought the bike and 2) I don't live anywhere near a GOOD, very knowledgeable bike shop (I'm 2 hours from Vancouver and there's no bike shop in my little town who is well-versed in the needs of a very short bike tourer. I don't mind doing the drive and I do do it fairly regularly. It's just so much easier if they were closer. Sorry - just venting)

Anyhow, I think I will send a detailed email to the person in Davis, CA and see what he has to say. And then I can at least go to my LBS in Vancouver with the right info.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

[bcipam]

All this engineering seems alittle over my head but have you considered mountain bike components for your rear derailleur? I have Ultegra shifters and front derailleur but run XTR gear on the rear - gives me a 30 - 34 ratio. Very low. You will have to buy a rear derailleur as well as a cassette and new chain. But for $200, a good fix (Although uncertain how this all fits in to what you have done already...)

[DeniseGoldberg]

All this engineering seems alittle over my head but have you considered mountain bike components for your rear derailleur? I have Ultegra shifters and front derailleur but run XTR gear on the rear - gives me a 30 - 34 ratio. Very low. You will have to buy a rear derailleur as well as a cassette and new chain. But for $200, a good fix (Although uncertain how this all fits in to what you have done already...)

Good point. My touring bikes also have mixed components - Ultegra front and XT or XTR rear. I definitely couldn't get the gearing I wanted with all road components. I remember when I had my first touring bike built - the frame builder was initially thinking I should go with mountain components until he realized that the mountain component groups didn't have the (shorter) crank length that he was recommending.

[SadieKate]

Problem is that Campy and Shimano are not compatible, nothing works together. You may be able to run a SRAM or Sachs with some Campy components (we have Campy/Sachs 8 spd blend on our tandem) but I really don't know the details. To do this, she may still have to have a Shimano compatible rear hub.

Also, the age of her components also presents a challenge. You have to love this need to have more and more cogs in the rear cassette; it just drives artificial obsolescence and puts money into the pockets of the component manufacturers. 8 speed Campy stuff can be almost impossible to find.

[bcipam]

well then the solution is to get rid of that campy stuff and go Shimano!!! Simple solution!!! :p

[DeniseGoldberg]

I wasn't suggesting mixing Campy & Shimano - but assuming that Campy has mountain bike components that could be mixed with their road components...

[SadieKate]

That would be wonderful! Campy made mtbike components years ago but no longer. There have been rumours. We have a Campy mtb crank from eons ago and true to Campy design, it is waaaaay over-engineered and rivals the downhill cranks of today. It would make a really pretty boat anchor.

[Pedal Wench]

SK - my cassette is a 10 speed (Campy Record :o )



Couple of querstions:

Pedal_Wench: is that 13-29 Cassette an 8 or 9 speed or is it a 10 spd? Car's bike is old enough her levers are 8 or 9.

Emily - your crankset and levers are Campy, right? What rear deraillleur are you using with the Shimano XT cassette? This could be a good solution though Car's hubs are probably Campy-compatible. I think you can get a Shimano to Campy adaptor for cassettes but not vice versa. Hmm, I'm curious about the details of your drivetrain and wheels.

[newfsmith]

Here is another variation that you may be able to use with your Campy componentsSchlumpf innovation (http://www.schlumpf.ch/schlumpf_engl.htm) . I've never seen one set up in the flesh, but it might let you get your lower gearing.

[roughingit]

If you really, really didn't want to go with smaller wheels (or pay for a custom bike), when I bought my Fuji Trouring they had at least two smaller frame sizes at the shop I bought it from, so Fuji *might* have something that fits you. (I'm 5'5")

[eofelis]

If you end up thinking new bike, Surly makes a touring bike frame that takes 26" wheels in the smallest sizes, down to 42cm frame size. It can be built up with a mtn bike drive train for super low gears (down to 22-34, I think)