Mountain bikes with 500 TTT?

[Catrin]

Not that I am actually looking to buy right now...but I just spent my lunch break looking at Jamis, Kona, Giant, and Specialized websites at their smaller mountain bikes - hard tail and entry level FS.

I need an optimum theoretical TT length of 500 - and so far everything I've found has been longer than that. I know there are a lot of other mountain bike companies out there - and I may well have overlooked something at one of the websites I've already looked at. Any tips on where else to look?

Looking is fun - and right now it is very safe as there is no ability to pull the trigger even if I fall in love. Besides, I have to do the women's clinic first before I decide one way or the other :)

Just looking. That's all, just looking :o

[Trek-chick]

"Just looking. That's all, just looking"

that can be dangerous:D

[Catrin]

"Just looking. That's all, just looking"

that can be dangerous:D


heheheh, I know! Thankfully all of my extra income right now is devoted to paying off my Gunnar (layaway) so I can bring her home on April 15. Assuming gas prices don't double before then :rolleyes:

Then I need to sock a little away into savings...and the women's mountain bike clinic will tell me if my hands can handle beginner trails, and if my basic skills are enough to start or if I need to get another season under my belt.

So I will keep that "just looking" mantra going and hopefully will have myself convinced of that by the time I bring my Gunnar home :)

[Cataboo]

I think mountain bike geometry is different than road bike geometry. So you possibly don't want to base the top tube length on what you have on your road bike.

[Catrin]

I think mountain bike geometry is different than road bike geometry. So you possibly don't want to base the top tube length on what you have on your road bike.


That would make sense and I was wondering that...a conversation with my fitter is in order the next time I see him. That LBS specializes in mountain bikes anyway :) 'Course, I am just looking...

[sundial]

Generally, TT on mtbs slope more than road bike TT to accommodate steeper seat tube and head tube angles.

[Catrin]

Generally, TT on mtbs slope more than road bike TT to accommodate steeper seat tube and head tube angles.

So of course the TT would have to be longer. That makes sense, thanks!

[SadieKate]

You need to be looking at effective top tube length, what the top tube would be if it were horizontal.

Remember mtn bikes do not have to fit to the mm the way a road bike should, at least assuming you're not going to plant your butt on it and ride it like a road bike. You move around so much more and it is such a more dynamic activity that you won't notice the 1 mm differences.

[Catrin]

You need to be looking at effective top tube length, what the top tube would be if it were horizontal.

Remember mtn bikes do not have to fit to the mm the way a road bike should, at least assuming you're not going to plant your butt on it and ride it like a road bike. You move around so much more and it is such a more dynamic activity that you won't notice the 1 mm differences.

I was wondering this, thanks! The differences are quite large though perhaps 25-35mm won't matter. When I am ready I will discuss this with my fitter. I won't know until the mountain bike clinic if my hands can handle it or if my skills have progressed enough to take on beginning mountain biking this year. I WANT to, but I don't want to set myself up for failure by taking it on too soon...

[indysteel]

Catrin, what's your inseam? I know that I had trouble finding MTBs that I could comfortably standover--but I have short legs, even for my height. You may run into the same thing. I ended up with a Specialized Myka.

[Catrin]

Catrin, what's your inseam? I know that I had trouble finding MTBs that I could comfortably standover--but I have short legs, even for my height. You may run into the same thing. I ended up with a Specialized Myka.

I don't remember, but I take a 48cm on the LHT and I *think* it is the same for my Gunnar. I really need to confirm with Jonathan what my inseam is... One of the reasons, among others, I had to go with a true custom size with the Gunnar was that I needed more stand-over than their standard sizes. I don't think that means I have long legs :o

I just looked at the Myka (bad me for doing this at work) and it is a nice bike! I also note a FS version with disc brakes for <2K... I don't know if I would go the FS route, but have been told it wouldn't be unwise given my assorted bits of arthritis.

[indysteel]

I don't remember, but I take a 48cm on the LHT and I *think* it is the same for my Gunnar. I really need to confirm with Jonathan what my inseam is... One of the reasons, among others, I had to go with a true custom size with the Gunnar was that I needed more stand-over than their standard sizes. I don't think that means I have long legs :o

I just looked at the Myka (bad me for doing this at work) and it is a nice bike! I also note a FS version with disc brakes for <2K... I don't know if I would go the FS route, but have been told it wouldn't be unwise given my assorted bits of arthritis.

It's hard not to covet that Myka FS, but it was well more than I wanted to spend to introduce myself to the sport. Plus, I have to keep in mind how often I really think we're going to MTB, as Brown County and Indiana's other trails aren't just outside our back door. The reality is that it's going to play second fiddle to road riding.

I'd also consistently read that it was better in most respects to learn on an HT. I guess I'll find out. I don't have arthritis in my hands, but I do have lingering nerve issues thanks to my Moots, so I have some concerns there, too. We recently bought a suspension seatpost for my bike--a Cane Creek Thudbuster--to soften the ride a bit, but I've yet to try it though. We got it on sale at Nashbar, so even with that modification, the bike is still running far cheaper and lighter than the FS.

[SadieKate]

I'd also consistently read that it was better in most respects to learn on an HT. I guess I'll find out. You won't hear that from me.

Yes, people who learn on hard tails may learn finesse and some techniques better, but they may also learn fear. FS has a larger margin of error which means you get away with more, but depending on age, ailments, general mindset, etc., FS can be the way to go.

If I had started out with FS, I'd be a far better rider today. My knees and hips are happier with FS. My brain is happier with FS. I ride more obstacles with FS.

But no matter what, you have to get a decent front fork. Bad hands need a nice soft smooth action and you need to be able to dial in the rebound so you don't ricochet off obstacles and learn fear.

[SadieKate]

I was wondering this, thanks! The differences are quite large though perhaps 25-35mm won't matter. When I am ready I will discuss this with my fitter. I won't know until the mountain bike clinic if my hands can handle it or if my skills have progressed enough to take on beginning mountain biking this year. I WANT to, but I don't want to set myself up for failure by taking it on too soon...No, I said 1 mm, as in a FEW millimeters (maybe up to 10), not 3.5 centimeters! Move my mtb seat post 1 mm and I'm clueless. Move my road seatpost 1 mm, and beware!

Sheesh, give an inch, take a mile! :p

[Catrin]

I just did a rough inseam measurement of 76.2 cm from the floor up- I don't think that is far off from the "official" measurement.

It isn't my hands that I am considering when I look at the FS, but I've back and neck issues... this does not mean that I still might not opt for a hardtail, but I will have to balance it all out. If there is too much jolting that winds up hurting then I wouldn't ride it at all. Jonathan is strongly encouraging me to not get a hard-tail - and he has back issues as well.

I am mainly interested in XC riding and more non-technical singletrack - I like road riding - but I also like the option of being able to head down to BCSP or closer trails on windy days or if I just want to get away from the cars that day.

[Catrin]

No, I said 1 mm, as in a FEW millimeters (maybe up to 10), not 3.5 centimeters! Move my mtb seat post 1 mm and I'm clueless. Move my road seatpost 1 mm, and beware!

Sheesh, give an inch, take a mile! :p

I wasn't sure if you were talking about a mile or an inch - though I figured you were not giving me a mile :)

The small Myka has an actual TT of 509mm, my optimum is 500...that is certainly better than the >530 of the Jamis and Giant smalls :eek: The standover of the Myka small is 674mm while my LHT is 723.8...

Am also going to talk with my fitter, it may be that there are other small choices outside of custom...

[indysteel]

You won't hear that from me.

Yes, people who learn on hard tails may learn finesse and some techniques better, but they may also learn fear. FS has a larger margin of error which means you get away with more, but depending on age, ailments, general mindset, etc., FS can be the way to go.

If I had started out with FS, I'd be a far better rider today. My knees and hips are happier with FS. My brain is happier with FS. I ride more obstacles with FS.

But no matter what, you have to get a decent front fork. Bad hands need a nice soft smooth action and you need to be able to dial in the rebound so you don't ricochet off obstacles and learn fear.

Good points. Unfortunately, it's a moot point for me. It was either an HT or nothing as I couldn't justify spending spending $2k on a bike for a sport that (a) I have no experience with and (b) will likely be something I only do here and there. If I truly find myself loving it but either fearing every obstacle in sight and/or getting beat up, then I'll consider a FS.

[Cataboo]

I measured my mountain bike a little and despite the fact that I feel like I'm completely upright on that bike, it's about 20 cms longer in the top tube than my road bike. The bars are swept back, so maybe that compensates. I'll go measure the mountain bike in the shed in a while - it's a WSD and I know it's got a really short top tube. I stuck a 120 mm stem on it to compensate.


I ride hardtails. One has a titanium frame & I just upgraded its fork. It weighs maybe 23 lbs and I probably have an ancient crankset in it and other components that could be lightened and so for not a lot of money I could lose a few pounds.

I know I can't get a good full suspension at the same price. And I don't really feel like riding a not so great full suspension.

Hardtail vs. full suspension. Generally I think you can get a much better and lighter bike for your money going hardtail than going full suspension. I have no desire to be riding a 30 lb bike up a hill. Or dealing with a suspension flexing when I'm hill climbing. However, I'm not doing serious downhilling where I'd need a full suspension to even out the bumps.

I used to have a suspension seatpost on my bike, but took it off recently to lighten things - and I can't say I've really noticed the difference, I'm off the seat for bumpy stuff or descents most of the time.

I have ridden a full suspension a few times, and I don't think that full suspension makes me less afraid of things than I am on my hardtail. What I'm usually afraid of is making tight turns at speed (the oh crud, I'm gonna hit a tree if I don't make a sharp left at the bottom of a hill) and what bike I'm on really doesn't make a difference with that. As for going over obstacles, I'm sure going over a log feels smoother when you're on a full suspension than a hardtail, but I think getting over the log is the same either way and the fear factor is the same (however, I'm likely to be up out of my seat with my knees slightly bent for the impact). What helped me in those cases was basically just having a log in the back yard or putting a milk bottle or phone book out on the street and practicing wheelies and bunny hops so that I had more biking skills.

What I am vaguely intruiged about is the 29ers.

If Catrin's not planning on going down rocky mountains or something like that, I think she'd be fine on a good hardtail. I don't think steel or titanium frame is necessary, but I don't think they'd hurt.

[Catrin]

.....

What I am vaguely intruiged about is the 29ers.

If Catrin's not planning on going down rocky mountains or something like that, I think she'd be fine on a good hardtail. I don't think steel or titanium frame is necessary, but I don't think they'd hurt.

Thanks for your measurement experiments :) It would be great if I don't need to go the FS route so I can keep hold of more of my money. I am quite sure my free rental/loaner at the mountain bike clinic will be a hardtail, so that will give me at least some indication.

I do not intend on aggressive downhilling - though who can say how rocky a trail one finds oneself? I do intend on going slow uphill, having fun going downhill, and stopping when and where I want to smell the flowers or to talk with someone :)

This is all quite exciting - though I did find out my LBS isn't a Specialized dealer (I knew that already). I didn't know that they HAVE to be a dealer to purchase one. When the time comes I would like to go through them if at all possible, but surely there are other good options for small mountain bikes...

I know that they make 29ers for smaller people now, just don't know if they make them MY size :o

[indysteel]

When the time comes I would like to go through them if at all possible, but surely there are other good options for small mountain bikes...

I think you can count on Jonathan trying his best to fit you on one of the several brands they carry, but being honest and upfront with you if you would simply be better served on a brand they don't carry. He has always struck me as having a lot of integrity in that department. Certainly, if you end up having to go with a different brand because of fit or price, I doubt he'll hold it against you for as loyal a customer as you've been. I would assume that he and Tim fully appreciate that even good customers shop (either out of necessity or choice) at multiple local shops.

[Cataboo]

I measured the bike in my shed. It's a novara amiga. Effective top tube on it is 500 mm, so 40 mm less than my ti mountain bike. Which probably means that it's not going to be a frame I'm keeping long term.

So, at least once there was a mountain bike with a 500 mm top tube.

[Catrin]

I think you can count on Jonathan trying his best to fit you on one of the several brands they carry, but being honest and upfront with you if you would simply be better served on a brand they don't carry. He has always struck me as having a lot of integrity in that department. Certainly, if you end up having to go with a different brand because of fit or price, I doubt he'll hold it against you for as loyal a customer as you've been. I would assume that he and Tim fully appreciate that even good customers shop (either out of necessity or choice) at multiple local shops.

Oh certainly, and that wasn't my concern at all. I really like their policy of a free life-time fitting on bike purchases :)

Depending on the outcome of the clinic, I will give the shop a chance to fit me before I go somewhere else. I would prefer new over used given I know nothing of mountain bikes, but time will tell. First I have to learn if I can do it :)

Cataboo, thanks for letting me know that there are indeed mountain bikes with a very short TT :)