cleats with float, or no float

[Catrin]

I am wondering if my legs need cleats with more float than my SPDs, and if this was one of the contributing factors to my injuries last fall. Considering my injuries came within two weeks of moving to clipless pedals I have to ask the question - though it may simply have been a final straw for my leg.

Is there a way to tell this without going to the expense of new shoes/pedals/cleats? I really do like clipping in for the hills, and for the feeling of extra stability in a cross-wind, but I am leery of returning to my SPD pedals...

[ny biker]

My knees are much better since I switched from SPDs to Speedplay frogs, which have more float.

[indysteel]

Have you talked to Jonathan and/or your PT about whether your injuries had anything to do with your SPD pedals? Your knees didn't give you any issue last fall if I recall, so I'm not sure of the connection, but it's something you should talk to them about. You've been clipping in in spin class without incident this winter, right?

I tend to think you'd be better off putting your SPD pedals on now when your mileage and average ride is still pretty low/short than to decide in the middle of summer that you want to go back to them. T But I wasn't as convinced as you were that your pedals were the real culprit last summer. They may have contributed to the extent you suddenly started engaging your muscles in a new way AND riding over 150 miles a week, but that's why it might make more sense to begin using them now when your riding volume is still pretty low. Give you muscles a chance to acclimate, but take them off at the FIRST sign of any problem.

Has Jonathan ever suggested Andy Pruitt's book The Complete Medical Guide for Cyclists? You might want to get a copy of it for reference.

[Artista]

+1 on the Speedplay Frogs.

My bike fitter has a variety of clipless systems to try out during fittings. I was able to try his Frog "tester set" on my bike on a trainer before committing to them. Once we figured out that the Frogs worked, he took the testers off my bike & installed a new pair. I was very pleased that I didn't have to spend a lot of money before I knew whether they would work or not. Maybe your LBS & fitter have a similar testing system.

[Catrin]

hmmmm, I have also thought about that point IndySteel... it is true that none of my injuries were related to my knee - that I know of. My recent knee problem had nothing to do with the bike :)

I am still working on a more consistent starting technique, and when I am happy with that I will make the change. The seat post is getting raised every few rides now so I don't want to introduce something new until I am more comfortable with the new way of doing things.

Some of that is probably nerves - and it isn't about clipping in/put - it is the whole injury association. I will also discuss this with Jonathan and see what he thinks about the wisdom of moving to another kind of pedal..

[OakLeaf]

For a contrary perspective ... my knees need things to be "just right," and because of that, I do better with no float. It might take me a couple of tweaks when I get a new pair of shoes, to get the cleats aligned exactly right. But once I get it right, that's where my knees like to be, and float just means slop, to me. I can handle the 4.5° grey cleats that come with new Look pedals, but when I replace them, I get the black zero float cleats if the store has them.

+1 on talking to your fitter and your PT.

[indysteel]

I think there are a number of bike fit experts who would agree with you, Oak. I did a fair amount of research on float some time ago when my knee was bothering me, and consistently came across those who think it's far better to use a fixed cleat that is set up "just so" than a cleat with float. My knee issue was ultimately related to Q factor so I didn't up changing out my grey Look cleats, but I've also used SPDs without problem--so long as I tweak them a bit to get them just right.

[Catrin]

There HAVE been a couple of times in spinning class recently where I had to unclip because my Sartorious was aggravated and being clipped in caused pain - but I think it was related to exercises I did prior to class. I don't do those anymore on riding or spinning days.

I am leaning toward having my LBS switch my pedals for me this week on the LHT and trying it out before my Gunnar comes. If there are no problems, then the SPD pedals will go on the Gunnar at that time and then I just might put the BMX pedals back on the LHT for a period of time. Or not ;) They really are different bikes and I do like the BMX pedals. Will still talk to fitter about my SPD dual-pedals.

My hands/grip are quite weak - without an actual work station I do not think that I can use a pedal wrench to unloosen my pedals. I do want to be able to do this simple task myself, but I cannot even open jars without a great deal of effort (if at all) so I am not going to fool myself that I can unloosen pedals without my bike being held by something stationary.

[OakLeaf]

If the pedals are in tight it can be a job to remove them for sure, but once you get them off, as far as switching back and forth, just make sure you put some anti-seize lubricant on the spindles. They don't need to be installed very tight, because the pedaling action will tend to tighten them - as long as you use plenty of anti-seize, they should come off easily.

Do your pedals have an 8 mm Allen on the end? If so, you can put a breaker bar on your socket for extra leverage (because drive handles are sized according to torque, breaker bars use 1/2" drive, so you may need a 1/2"-to-3/8" drive adapter if your socket is 3/8" as it probably is if you bought a set). If your pedals install and remove only with the 15 mm flats on the outside of the crank, is there room between the crank and the pedal to get a real, longer 15 mm wrench in there, rather than a skinny pedal wrench?

[Catrin]

Thanks for this, I will check. I actually have no tools at this point but this is going to have to change. If I am going to share my home with beautiful bikes then I need to learn how to at least do the basics, and I do believe this counts as a "basic" :) I already have the cleaning and chain-lubing down, which is a great start!

[OakLeaf]

Actually I wouldn't necessarily count pedal installation and removal as a "basic." Once you settle on which pedals you want on which bike, you never really need to take them off unless they wear out (tens of thousands of miles - which you'll probably hit next year ;)) or you're packing the bike for shipment. There's nothing to it mechanically (except for remembering which pedal installs in which direction :rolleyes:) but if you need to buy a tool for something, you may as well figure out whether you'll really be using it often enough to worry about.

[withm]

My hands/grip are quite weak - without an actual work station I do not think that I can use a pedal wrench to unloosen my pedals. I do want to be able to do this simple task myself, but I cannot even open jars without a great deal of effort (if at all) so I am not going to fool myself that I can unloosen pedals without my bike being held by something stationary.

If you try to change your pedals using a proper pedal wrench I think you'll be pleasantly suprised at how little effort is required to loosen the pedals (provided they were installed correctly to begin with). The pedal wrench is 10-12" long which provides quite a bit of leverage. Don't be so quick to say you can't do something until you try it. It's nothing like trying to open a jar.

[OakLeaf]

It really depends on the installation.

I'm on the strong-ish side and have no issues with my hands, and there's been twice that I've needed DH's help to get my pedals off ... and he, who's done physical labor most of his life, needed a breaker bar.

Once the first time they came off - and once several months after I'd installed them in a hurry in the FedEx parking lot ... both times, no lubricant, and I'm pretty sure they were factory installed too tight.

Assuming that whoever installed the pedals last used plenty of anti-seize lubricant and an appropriate torque, then yes, it should not be hard at all, and if you need something to cushion your hand on the skinny pedal wrench, you can wrap it in a shop towel.

And that is an advantage to doing it yourself and making it one of the basics ... you will know that the person who installed the pedals did it right, if it was you!