Flood insurance?

[indysteel]

When my husband and I bought our house in 2009, we choose an area that is more or less halfway between my job and his. Unfortunately, it's a town that's prone to flooding. There was a rather bad--the proverbial 100-year flood--flood in 2008 spelled disaster for many in our town. The house we bought sits on slightly higher ground and fared just fine, but several of our neighbors didn't fare so well. A difference of 5 to 10 feet of elevation in our area makes a world of difference. We had some flooding this past weekend in our neighborhood and we, again, fared just fine thanks to a very busy sump pump and our extra elevation.

But here's a picture from 2008 of what it looked like to the south and west of our house in a lower lying area:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3049/2564295152_e3f594fc85.jpg

I had previously been working on the incorrect assumption that our mortgage lender would have forced us to get flood insurance if we were eligible for it in the first place (not everyone can buy federal flood insurance, and that's the only kind of flood insurance out there). Wrong. You're only required to get flood insurance if your loan is federally backed, e.g, FHA, VA. Ours is not. So, while we weren't required to get flood insurance, we are eligible for it--at a premium of about $1600 a year. So, now my husband and I need to decide whether to carry it.

I can swallow the cost, although it pains me to do so. What keeps stopping me in my tracks is that it's federal insurance. I may work for the Feds, but when I hear how other disasater programs are run, I have to wonder whether they pay out in an expeditious manner when the claim is against the federal flood insurance program. Will I pay close to $2000 a year only to be thwarted with red tape and bureaucracy? Is that still better than the alternative?

Does anybody carry flood insurance and, if so, have you ever made a claim? How was the claim handled? Anything else I should know? Any other thoughts?

[OakLeaf]

We have flood insurance, but have never made a claim. We're not required to carry it, but being two or three feet above the flood plain in coastal Florida, there's no way we were going to decide against it. The bonus is that because we're not in the flood plain, it's cheap.

Honestly, from what I know about it, most of the problems stem from it being a program that has to coordinate with private homeowner's insurance with each of them only being liable some of the time. It's like when you have trouble with your phone, and the company that owns the infrastructure says it's the service provider's issue, and the service provider says it's a problem with the wires. :rolleyes: The claims issues have little or nothing to do with it being a federal program - look at Medicare, for comparison.

(And plenty of private mortgage lenders *do* require flood insurance when you're in the flood plain - just as they require termite certification - I'm as surprised as you are, that yours didn't.)

[indysteel]

We have flood insurance, but have never made a claim. We're not required to carry it, but being two or three feet above the flood plain in coastal Florida, there's no way we were going to decide against it. The bonus is that because we're not in the flood plain, it's cheap.

Honestly, from what I know about it, most of the problems stem from it being a program that has to coordinate with private homeowner's insurance with each of them only being liable some of the time. It's like when you have trouble with your phone, and the company that owns the infrastructure says it's the service provider's issue, and the service provider says it's a problem with the wires. :rolleyes: The claims issues have little or nothing to do with it being a federal program - look at Medicare, for comparison.

(And plenty of private mortgage lenders *do* require flood insurance when you're in the flood plain - just as they require termite certification - I'm as surprised as you are, that yours didn't.)


Thanks for chiming in. I'm extremely surprised our lender didn't require it, especially with what happened in 2008 being so fresh in everyone's minds (our original and refi lenders are local banks). Granted, our original lender is a division of a bank that was later taken over by federal regulators, too, so hmmmm. :rolleyes:

Since we live in a "high risk" area, we aren't entitled to a "preferred" rate, as it appears you are. I tend to think that we'll likely get it because it just seems like the best thing to do. Obviously, there's risk either way, but the downside of not having it could be huge. In looking for pictures of what our neighborhood looked like in 2008, I was reminded how bad the flood was and how immediate its ruination. Lots of families had to move out immeditely and never got to return. The house just three doors down from ours is no longer there. The town is still in the process of tearing down the abandoned homes. Only a few were salvaged to the point of being habitable.

[jessmarimba]

I don't have it and I've never lived somewhere that did.

But for future reference, anyone who wants to check their property can look here (http://msc.fema.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/FemaWelcomeView?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1) - just enter your address and zoom in on the map.

The problems I remember from Katrina flood insurance issues were that FEMA was claiming the water damage wasn't from flooding but from the wind, etc. I would say if you aren't in danger of hurricanes, filing a claim should be fairly straightforward.

[withm]

Ugh. I have flood insurance. Never had a claim but that day could come any time. I live in a TH/Condo that has only a crawlspace. The house is raised up about 3 feet from the ground and 1 mile from the ocean. Basically I live at sea level in an area where the elevations for miles are in the 3 - 10' range. My flood most likely will emanate from a Nor'easter (notably the storm of '62 - which wiped out much of the town where I live) or from the storm surge accompanying a hurricane.

To get flood insurance you need to have an elevation certificate - you may have gotten one with your survey and settlement papers. If not, you can get whoever did the property survey to perform the elevation survery and give you the elevation certificate. If a new one has to be made it runs $300-500. Flood zones and the local topographic conditions detrmine the BFE and flood insurance rates are based on the BFE - base flood elevation, the square footage of your basement/crawlspace/garage, and the square footage of any flood vents built into your dwelling. The BFE for your house may be different from house next door. Basically this locates lowest living area on your house compared to the expected flood height for the 100-yr flood.

Anyway, if your bank requires it (and it may not have had that requirement a few years ago) you will have to procure it. Even if they did not require it then, if you were to refinance now, they may add the requirement. Banks are just looking for reasons not to give you money these days. Just like insurance companies.

To make an informed decision on whether to buy it or not, you really need that BFE for your property. If you Google "flood insurance" you'll find links to Fema, the national flood insurance program, and lots of info on elevation certificates, etc. One thing you may want to do regardless if you buy the insurance is to raise up all of your systems several feet from the floor - esp compressor for your A/C or heat pump. The elevation certificate will tell you how high you shoud raise them. It does not take much water to fry a compressor.

Now the UGH part - In the last 6 months I have tried twice to refinance my house and was denied both times due to insurance issues, and both times for issues beyond my control. The first was denied because the condo assn had not yet renewed the master hazard insurance coverage for the coming year, so there was only 1 month remaining on the existing policy. Denied. The 2nd time the mtg co decided the flood insurance the condo assn had in place was insufficient. Denied.

Oh the insurance company would love to have sold me "gap" insurance at an exhorbitant rate, but would still need the elevation certificate ($$$) so the additional costs to do this, plus carry the extra insurance every year far exceeded the savings on the monthly payments in the time I plan to remain in this house.

Of course the current mortgage company is perfectly happy with the insurance coverage limits. And guess what... IT'S THE SAME MORTGAGE COMPANY! Go figure?

I hate mortgage and insurance companies this week .....

[indysteel]

Thanks, withm. Nothing I'd read to date--and admittedly I hadn't exhausted the subject--said anything about an elevation certificate. All I can figure out from FEMA's website is that I live in a "high risk" area. We bought in 2009 and refinanced last summer and neither lender made any mention of flood insurance. The previous owners did have a federally backed VA loan so, presumably, they would have potentially been required to carry it, yet no mention was made of it. I would mention that because we already have a 15 year fixed loan at a ridiculously low rate, I don't anticipate having to refinance again.

[Cataboo]

I'm not sure I understand your hesitation just because it's a federally run program. Are you going to not get medicare or social security because it's federally run? If you have no other options, medicare is better than nothing. Federally run flood insurance is again better than nothing.

You do have a short term loan with a low interest rate - but if you do lose that house to flooding, can you afford to rebuild it without flood insurance? I guess there's a chance to get money from FEMA if you don't have flood insurance.

A number of years ago, when I was in grad school, a tropical storm parked over the city I was living in for several hours - sending rain gushing through the city, and causing a ton of damage & flooding. Someone called me in the morning and said "are you okay?" I was living at 19th St & basically all the houses from 17th street on were condemned from the flooding. Most of the people did not have flood insurance because there was a flood wall on the river - but the flood wasn't from the river rising, it was from all the rain. I'd gotten knocked over and swept across the road from asphalt being swept down a hillside when I'd walked home from school.

So. Flood insurance seems like a good idea to me, especially if you know you live in a flood plain. although, I'm always absolutely boggled that people live in flood plains.

[OakLeaf]

I'm always absolutely boggled that people live in flood plains.

There are flood plains and there are flood plains. There are probably more people in the USA in the 100-year flood plain than not, I'd expect. And there's nowhere that isn't at very high risk of some natural disaster or another, whether it be earthquake, tornado, hurricane, lightning, mudslide, hail, blizzard ...

[PamNY]

Purely emotional, but I'd say get it. I know a couple of people who were wiped out by the flooding in Nashville, TN.

According to news reports I read, you need separate policies for house and contents (I don't know how accurate that is, but it was reported in multiple sources).

[indysteel]

A good portion of Central Indiana is in a flood plain, some areas worse than others. Granted, my current house may be at greater risk, but how much greater than my house in Indianapolis, I don't know. To suggest people are foolish for living in a flood plain ignores how much of the United States developed, i.e., along rivers and major waterways. You'd have to resettle a big chunk of people presumably to arid land--which presents its own problems. Plus, according to FEMA, one quarter of all claims are made by people in low to moderate risk. And these are just from people who carry the insurance.

My hestitation relates to sinking a serious chunk of change annually for something that may or may not happen. I am a Federal employee but have limited faith in some of what we do. I've heard and read too many stories about failed and delayed disaster relief so I think my question about whether it's a well run program is pretty valid.

Keep in mind that my house did not flood in the Flood of 2008, which most people agreed was THE 100-year Flood. So, while I will likely do it, I was trying to get my head around the risk versus cost. If we stay here 10 years, it's likely to be at least $16,000. That's not pocket change, nor obviously is losing our house and all of its contents either. So, yes, we're likely to get it. Thanks for everyone's input and information.

[PamNY]

My hesitation relates to sinking a serious chunk of change annually for something that may or may not happen. I am a Federal employee but have limited faith in some of what we do. I've heard and read too many stories about failed and delayed disaster relief so I think my question about whether it's a well run program is pretty valid.

Are you concerned about a claim being denied completely, or about delays/confusion as seems to happen (perhaps understandably at times) with FEMA?

I wonder if there's a way to find out something about how good the performance is.

[Biciclista]

if i lived where water could flow that high, i'd get flood insurance. So what if it takes a little longer than you like to get them to pay you? the alternative is to lose your house.

[Koronin]

Where we used to live (I did own the home) we were in a 500 year flood plain. The 100 year flood plain was on part of our property, but not where the structure was, so we choose to not carry flood insurance. If it was in the 100 yr flood plain my mortgage lender (Bank of America) actually would have required it. We are currently in the process of purchasing a home with a VA loan and they are not requiring flood insurance either. The home we are purchasing is not in a 100 year flood plain and is about 30 or so miles inland from the ocean. Now due to location (coastal county) the VA and the lender both require wind and hail insurance.

[bmccasland]

If your house and contents are damaged by rising water (a flood), then your homeowner's insurance will NOT pay. You do not need a federally backed loan (VA or FHA) to buy flood insurance. Whoever told you that didn't know what they're talking about. Flood is based on your risk area. Unless you happen to live on the high bank and know your home really is out of the 100 year flood plain, then you should get it. Also depending on your risk area, it may not be that much, or it can be as high as your homeowner's policy (which is what I paid living at -3.5 ft in the New Orleans area). Also 100-yr flood risk means that on average that bubbly creek will flood once every 100 years - but it could actually flood this year and the next year and the next year. Then not flood again for 200 years.

If you want to bear the complete recovery cost of a rising water / flood event, including loosing everything you own, then skip the insurance. Otherwise, buy flood insurance. It is a common misconception that homeowner's will cover flooding - it doesn't.

As to high-wind events, including those living in tornado alley - many homeowner's policies are requiring riders for high-wind or hail damage, an addition to your normal homeowner's policy. If you opt out of the rider, then have a high-wind event (tornado, hurricane), you may discover you're also out in the cold. Insurance companies exist to make money it seems. :(

[Koronin]

It's also the coastal areas for hurricanes, hence the reason we are required to have wind and hail coverage while we have a mortgage even though this area is extremely unlikely to be hit by a hurricane. Also being in a coastal county we cannot get a low deductable insurance plan like we had near Charlotte. Our deductible will be 3 times what it was there (lowest we can get here) plus an additional deductable for any named storm (done by percentage). Actually both our Realtor and insurance agent pulled checked to see if the property we're buying is in a flood zone, and it is not listed as being in one.
As bmccasland stated flood damage is not covered by regular home owner's insurance policies. Now if you live in a coastal county and buy a home on the beach, good luck find a private insurance company to issue wind and hail as well as flood, esp if it's a rental property. If it's a primary residence you might be able to get it depending on which insurance company you're dealing with.

[OakLeaf]

even though this area is extremely unlikely to be hit by a hurricane

Yeah, so is our area. Everyone told us the way the Gulf Stream runs, hurricanes don't hit here. We got three in '04, the year after we bought the house.

We lost roof and carpet that needed to be replaced anyway, and the insurance got to pay for it (as well as new paint in the bedroom that I hated the color).

[Koronin]

OakLeaf, I totally get that part. It would so not surprise me to have something crazy happen here this summer since we're in the process of buying right now. Truthfully it's not the wind and hail coverage that actually is annoying me about the whole insurance thing in a coastal county, it's the extra deductable for a named storm on top of the high dedcutable that is required in a coastal county to start with.
Well at least you got new paint to repaint a room you didn't like the color of to begin with, but otherwise that is terrible that it happened within a year of buying the house.
For us the hurricane is unlikely due to the way the coast goes inward right here before going back out. We're in Jacksonville, NC, and if you look at a map there is an area of the NC coast that curves west before going back to the east and north. Everyone keeps telling me that if it's not a direct hit the only place that gets much other than some major rain and wind is the coast. It has to be a direct hit to do real damage away from the coast.

[Cataboo]

I think with climate change, a lot of predictions of when flooding or storms will happen won't be too accurate.

[Mr. Bloom]

Indy, the facts are in conflict with my understanding/experience on the issues.

On one hand, I believe the flood insurance requirement extends to federally insured institutions, not federally insured transactions. And, guessing who your originating lender was, I think this rule would have applied to them unless you were outside the flood plain. So, consistent with your experience and observation, I don't think you're in the 100 yr flood plain.

But, if this is true, then the premium seems awfully high. In the past, I lived on the edge of a flood plain (part of my very flat yard was in the plain) and there was a voluntary program...but the premium was no where near that high...but that was 10+ yrs ago.

So, two facts in conflict - it's likely you're not in the flood plain, but it seems you're being quoted a premium that is...

So, I'm wondering if the rate was quoted to you without a specific review of the flood maps??? Do you have a survey showing the structure is outside Zone A? What would the premium be if you were in the flood plain?

But, in any event, I'd still get it. Development changes storm water flows and municipal planning can't always keep up. You're in a developing area... And the flood maps arn't always current either. Being OK this year doesn't mean the same next year...you almost can't afford not to have it...

[indysteel]

Mr. B., I got that number from entering our specific address into FEMA's Floodsmart website. It indicates that our address is in a "high risk" area. Beyond that, I don't really have much information. There's also conflicting information as to when you will be required to get insurance. In one part, it says that it's required for any lender that is federally insured. Presumably, that means any FDIC-insured bank. In another part, it refers to federally insured transactions (I'm paraphrasing), which to me would mean FHA, VA and the like. I read both parts to the Judge yesterday, and he thought it was confusing. Certainly, if I'm eligible for what they call a preferred rate, then the premium would be considerably less, and would be a no brainer, but it would appear that if I'm eligible for the insurance, I would be required to pay the higher premium.

Obviously, I need to gather more information. I just wanted to get an initial read on whether the program is run efficiently. I realize I my have little "choice," and I've long understood that my homeowner's insurance would not cover it.

[indysteel]

Are you concerned about a claim being denied completely, or about delays/confusion as seems to happen (perhaps understandably at times) with FEMA?

I wonder if there's a way to find out something about how good the performance is.

I'm worried about a significant delay or so much red tape that it becomes a full-time job. When you can't live in your home becasue it's covered in mold and all systems have been fried, then a significant delay could prove problematic.

[Catrin]

Good luck with your research and your decision making process. I wish I could add something constructive, I've always rented, but I am sure you and Mr. IndySteel will make the right decision.

[Mr. Bloom]

Certainly, if I'm eligible for what they call a preferred rate, then the premium would be considerably less, and would be a no brainer.

Understood. The FEMA site deals with the topography of the land, not the elevation of the actual house as it sets on the land. That's where a survey (or the elevation certificate) may come in handy getting you a lower rate... But it's been years since I've dealt with this...and there's a lot of complexity in grey areas like this...

I don't think the program is any slower than any other insurer. If you do turn out to be a preferred risk, I think you can actually purchase it directly through your own insurer

[jessmarimba]

Indy, if you are in the 100-year flood plain, your address may well show up as being within the flood zone boundaries but the elevation of your property may remove you (with the elevation certificate someone mentioned earlier). There is a base flood elevation that defines that flood plain, and your specific property may be above that elevation but most FEMA maps are pretty generic and don't pay much attention to minor topographic changes. There are also letters of map change that are on file that exempt properties from the flood plain - people can petition to be removed if they are above the base flood elevation so that they are not forced to get insurance. A previous property owner may have done that.

I do this sort of research for commercial properties with federally- backed loans - let me know if I can do anything to help settle your mind on this.

[Biciclista]

if your house and contents are damaged by rising water (a flood), then your homeowner's insurance will not pay. You do not need a federally backed loan (va or fha) to buy flood insurance. Whoever told you that didn't know what they're talking about. Flood is based on your risk area. Unless you happen to live on the high bank and know your home really is out of the 100 year flood plain, then you should get it. Also depending on your risk area, it may not be that much, or it can be as high as your homeowner's policy (which is what i paid living at -3.5 ft in the new orleans area). Also 100-yr flood risk means that on average that bubbly creek will flood once every 100 years - but it could actually flood this year and the next year and the next year. Then not flood again for 200 years.

If you want to bear the complete recovery cost of a rising water / flood event, including loosing everything you own, then skip the insurance. Otherwise, buy flood insurance. it is a common misconception that homeowner's will cover flooding - it doesn't.

As to high-wind events, including those living in tornado alley - many homeowner's policies are requiring riders for high-wind or hail damage, an addition to your normal homeowner's policy. If you opt out of the rider, then have a high-wind event (tornado, hurricane), you may discover you're also out in the cold. Insurance companies exist to make money it seems. :(

read this one

[Biciclista]

I'm worried about a significant delay or so much red tape that it becomes a full-time job. When you can't live in your home because it's covered in mold and all systems have been fried, then a significant delay could prove problematic.

That's true but if you DON'T have that flood insurance it will be much worse.

[indysteel]

Indy, if you are in the 100-year flood plain, your address may well show up as being within the flood zone boundaries but the elevation of your property may remove you (with the elevation certificate someone mentioned earlier). There is a base flood elevation that defines that flood plain, and your specific property may be above that elevation but most FEMA maps are pretty generic and don't pay much attention to minor topographic changes. There are also letters of map change that are on file that exempt properties from the flood plain - people can petition to be removed if they are above the base flood elevation so that they are not forced to get insurance. A previous property owner may have done that.

I do this sort of research for commercial properties with federally- backed loans - let me know if I can do anything to help settle your mind on this.

Thanks, Jess. I've spent some time this morning trying to make sense of the maps available through FEMA. I can't say that I've spent enough time, however, to find anything that specifically addresses my property. It's hard to sort through, at least given the limited amount of time I've been able to devote to it thus far. I'm otherwise knee deep in an opinion I'm doing for work so trying to get my head around a mutual insurance company's demutualization on one hand and base elevation certificates on the other is giving me a headache!

I suppose this is too easy, but is there a definitive source of information or county office I can go to figure it out. One question I have is this: let's assume there is an exemption for my property in terms of being required to carry flood insurance. Does that mean I can't get any policy at all or that I could be elible for a policy at a "preferred" rate.

[Biciclista]

you won't find too many policies that are cheaper than what the feds are offering.

[indysteel]

read this one

Thanks, I did. To answer the points made in that post:

I do appreciate that my homeowner's insurance will not cover a flood. I've long known and understood that since first becoming a homeowner in 2002.

If my homeowner's insurer is requiring a rider for high wind or hail, I am unaware of it. We certainly haven't declined a request to carry such a rider.

As for the connection between flood insurance and FHA and VA loans, I'm merely trying to intepret FEMA's own website to the extent that it says that flood insurance is required for federally insured lenders. It was not clear from the website whether this meant that it was required on any loan issued by federally insured lender or whether it merely applied to federally backed loans. FEMA's own website offers conflicting statements in this regard. I was merely trying to understand why we were not required to get flood insurance when we took out or mortgage given that FEMA states that we live in a high risk area. It seemed to me that one of two things could explain that: either our loan was not subject to forced flood insurance or our property was not subject to the requirement.

I welcome you to look at FEMA's Floodsmart website. Perhaps youi'll better appreciate that they make all of this clear as mud. Maybe it is readily understandable, and I'm just stupid.

But I doubt it. ;)

[PamNY]

I'm worried about a significant delay or so much red tape that it becomes a full-time job. When you can't live in your home becasue it's covered in mold and all systems have been fried, then a significant delay could prove problematic.

If your home is wiped out by a flood, "problematic" will describe your whole life. If you have flood insurance, at least you will get money at the end of the delay.

After 9/11, everything took time. The government didn't even acknowledge that the dust was toxic until months after the event. Insurance issues dragged on for years.

Even so, getting something eventually was better than getting nothing ever.

[withm]

The FEMA Flood maps are revised periodically - what may not have been a "high risk" area as determined by FEMA a few years ago could well be one now.

That can explain why a lender who did not require flood insurance even just a few years ago, may have that requirement now (or vice versa) on the same property.

If you look at the survey you received when you settled on your house, if the flood elevation was performed, the survey would state what flood zone you are in (AE, A, etc followed by a number). This is your flood zone designation. But you'll still need the elevation certificate to go further.

When I was trying to buy gap insurance to cover only the perceived gap in coverage provided by my condo association and what the bank thought it should be (????) I learned that the insurance broker could not even quote this coverage without having the information on the elevation certificate.

Here's a link to the FEMA Elevation Certificate - this form needs to be filled out by a licensed surveyor. You'll be able to see the level of detail involved that is required to determine the BFE for your home. Only when you have the BFE for your home can you determine if flood insurance should be purchased regardless of any lender's requirements.

http://www.fema.gov/library/viewRecord.do?id=1383

You really need to have this done to make any kind of evaluation.

Incidently, the flood insurance program (like any other government entity) is often under attack. You may find this article interesting from the Feb 22 edition of Coastal Contractor. There is legislation being proposed to eliminate the Fed. flood insurance program. BTW, it states that all flood insurance is subsidized through this program, and suggests that there is no source for flood insurance outside of this program.

http://www.coastalcontractor.net/article/434.html

One other thing to keep in mind, there is a waiting period for flood insurance, in that if you buy it today, there is a 30-day waiting period for coverage. So if the hurricane is coming next week, you can't buy insurance now and expect to be covered next week. This period is waived when buying a new house.

[Mr. Bloom]

Indy, you're too busy to sort this out. Stop being soooo self sufficient ;)

You're too close to not get the insurance...start the process with your insurance agent, they're paid to sort it out...test their knowledge along the way if you think they're just taking a path of least resistance. If you're not in zone A, I think the insurer can underwrite it and take FEMA out of your process

You can also look at the appraisal and/or survey from your purchase. Check your realtor as well. Here, the gis shows flood prone areas and topography with reasonable precision. See if you have that up there.

[indysteel]

Indy, you're too busy to sort this out. Stop being soooo self sufficient ;)

Agreed. If you saw my desk right now....

But the lawyer in me likes to figure things out on my own, especially when they are at least partially related to The Law. I have orders into DH to contact our agent and I'll take a look at our closing docs, both for the original purchase and refi.

Ugh, Mr. B. It seems like everything I touch these days is overly complicated. It's not just the flood insurance. Every friggin' case I'm working on makes my head hurt. Add in my obligations with the Y, and I'm nearly tapped out. Our week's vacation to Utah next month cannot come fast enough.

[indysteel]

Thanks for the additional info, withm. I'll digest it fully tonight, but I did look at the article you linked to. That's just the thing I was trying to get a feel for, i.e, how stable is this program to begin with. I also found a website that discusses some of the problems you can anticipate with the program.

That's not to say that I won't get flood insurance; I just what a realistic understanding of how much faith to place it. I gotta first determine whether I can get it, whether I should, and how much it's going to cost.

Thanks for everyone's input.

[Mr. Bloom]

Ugh, Mr. B. It seems like everything I touch these days is overly complicated. It's not just the flood insurance. Every friggin' case I'm working on makes my head hurt. Add in my obligations with the Y, and I'm nearly tapped out. Our week's vacation to Utah next month cannot come fast enough.

Welcome to the life of a banker in the 21st Century! You're just farther down the food chain dealing with the final phase of the "cycle". Good news is that you're the leading indicator for things getting better

[indysteel]

Welcome to the life of a banker in the 21st Century! You're just farther down the food chain dealing with the final phase of the "cycle". Good news is that you're the leading indicator for things getting better

Ironically, Mr. B., little of what I work on these days involves a loan gone bad, although the case that's most bothersome right now is just that, but not from a traditional lending institution. Half the due diligence and twice the fun! Most of what I deal with is interpersonal stuff gone awry. Desperate people take desperate measures and do crazy things along the way. It's up to us to sort it out. It's like Judge Judy without the cameras and cussing. Oh, and throw some actual law in there as well.

Sorry for the thread drift. I've had a long couple of months at work and needed to vent.

[Mr. Bloom]

All a function of the same economic environment...as I said, welcome to my life!

[bmccasland]

All a function of the same economic environment...as I said, welcome to my life!

the economics are easy :rolleyes::rolleyes:
There are FEMA flood zones, which will indicate if homes and businesses within those zones have a certain risk for flooding.
There's the actual elevation of your house and the BFE (which could have been revised post construction).
Then there's whether or not you are willing to pay the complete cost of recovery if you have a flood.

One other little tidbit... if you have flood insurance and have multiple flood events, there's a percentage of damage from the last event, after which you'll be required to raise (or raze) your house. I've seen homes that flooded after major rain storms in my neighborhood carpet was out on the street - that were being raised 3-4 ft. Fortunately for said lifting, small business loans are available. Pretty much, after a point, you have to do something to the structure of your house to reduce the risk.

[frostflakes]

So helpful to read everyone's comments in this threads - thanks for sharing all! I'll also add in my two cents, read an excellent article on flood insurance - http://www.gettingmoneywise.com/2011/01/do-you-need-flood-insurance.html about when you actually need it and when it's not all that necessary. Hope that helps anyone else out who's still looking for info :)