new rider with training partner issues

[andiewest]

I have a problem. I am a relatively new rider. I have done some bike touring with my husband, but never any serious riding. In August 2 friends and I decided that we would do a century ride in July 2011. One of us had just finished a sprint triathlon, so she was in the best riding shape. I had not exercised for 6 months, was recovering from an illness and was in the worst shape of my life. The other partner had never seriously exercised. We said that we would spend September-January getting fit and then begin serious training. Two of us have been exercising, riding and doing spin classes 5 or 6 times per week. The other one has exercised once or twice per week. When we go out for our training rides two of us are way ahead and she is always lagging behind. She says that she has no more time to train. She insists that we set this goal together so we need to stick together. I feel that I need to work on my own health and fitness goals. She is feeling left out and left behind. Any suggestions for resolving this while still maintaining our friendship.

Andie

[marni]

If she insists that you all set this goal together, perhaps it is time to tactfdully point out to her that she is not keeping up her end of the bargain. Not having enough time might equate with lack of inclination and lack of energy due to lack of exercise. You might also point out to her gently that it is not the amount of time you train but the quality of training you do in the amount of time you have.

Ultimately though it is you can only be responsible for your health and fitness goals, just as she needs to be responsible for her own.

It's a hard narrow line to walk though, good luck with that.

[indysteel]

Did you discuss at the outset what your training would entail? Did you anticipate that the slower friend would not have the time to get overly serious about it? How often are you expected to ride together? If it's just once a week, can you treat that ride as a recovery ride? Is there anything positive you can do to help your friend get more on board?

I appreciate the importance of health and fitness goals, but I also understand the importance of friends. Rides come and go, but it's hard to find a good friend. If you can, figure out a way to not alienate your friend in the process of training for something you decided to do together.

I was fortunate that when I first got into cycling, a number of my friends exercised some patience as I got stronger. As time went by, I grew stronger than some of my friends. I remembered the kindness they had extended to me. Since then, I've struggled to train as much as I would have liked, so now the shoe's back on the other foot yet again. Fitness fortunes can change from year to year; I try to keep that in my mind when deciding how to train with friends.

[andiewest]

Thank you both for your input. I agree that friendship is as important or more important than fitness goals. I like the suggestion as treating our one ride together as a recovery ride. Part of the problem is that after recovering from a serious illness, I am now feeling strong and fit. When I get out on the bike I get such joy out of pushing my physical limits. I guess we all need to be more clear about our expectations.

[Cataboo]

Unfortunately, if she's already feeling left out and insisting that you all 3 have to do this together, it's going to be hard for you to separate your training from her without damaging your friendship, and you may end up having to do that. Do you really want to ride the entire century at her pace or at your own pace?


The recovery ride suggestion is a good one.

If your friend'll agree to it, about midway through the recovery ride with her, start having her practice drafting - that way you can pull her for a ways and challenge yourself for a bit. You and your other stronger friend can take turns pulling and just treat it as a way to prepare for the century - drafting each other for a short time to take a break.

Another thing you could do is just tell her that you will match her pace on the flats, but you really want to push yourself on hills... And just treat the hills as intervals where you ride as hard as you can to get to the top, and then just wait for her.

[indysteel]

Cataboo has some good suggestions. I've ridden with people where I left them on the hills (or was left myself) and then regrouped. Granted, I was riding with people whose egos were not easily wounded, so that helped.

That said, it is just one ride. There will be more centuries in your future from the sound of it. I would resist approaching your riding this year with this one ride as the end all be all. Sign up for another century this summer to do on your own or with your other "faster" friend.

[andiewest]

Hi,

Thanks for the further input. We are only riding once per week together. We had initially decided that this would be our long weekend ride. We are doing a metric century in 5 weeks, so we are trying to extend these weekend rides. I think I will suggest that we do a recovery ride together. This, however, will most likely be her one and only time that she gets out on the bike each week. That would solve our training issue, but leaves the matter of the actual century ride. It is so nice to have others' perspectives.

andie

[zoom-zoom]

Attempting to do a century ride on only one ride/week? I don't understand why she would undertake such a lofty goal on such minimal training. It won't be fun for her or her ride partners.

Yes, it's important to make sacrifices for friends, but that goes both ways. What sacrifices is she making to accommodate your needs? Riding just once/week and then expecting friends to plod along for 100 miles isn't really fair, either. Why doesn't she shoot for a half century or metric, instead? Even that will be painful, but not nearly as much so as a full century.

[marni]

based on my own century riding experience, it's more about the tits time than speed so for a metric century, make sure that your friend is capable of spending at least 5 hours in the saddle riding. You can work on this by pushing the "recovery ride" mileage longer and longer before you step down for more than a stop sign or stop light. For a metric century I try and time my first get off the bike /Rest stop for 28-30 miles or two hours whichever comes first.

Admitedly my advice is probably one sided since I am, have been and will probably always be a solitary rider except on cross country stuff, so how to deal with a biking friend other than my sweet SAG guy, is a bit beyond my ken. I will mention that we decide, from the beginning, whether we are riding for speed and distance. If it is for speed, he will drop off at the halfway point, and if it is for distance, he ususally breaks off between 40 and 50 miles.

Good luck however you decide to ride.

[tulip]

Yes, it's important to make sacrifices for friends, but that goes both ways. What sacrifices is she making to accommodate your needs?

My thoughts exactly.

Marni--Dare I ask what in the world is "tits time?"

[redrhodie]

My thoughts exactly.

Marni--Dare I ask what in the world is "tits time?"

Oh, I know this one. Sadly, it's just Time In The Saddle, and not something more risque.

[tulip]

Oh, I know this one. Sadly, it's just Time In The Saddle, and not something more risque.

Ah, don't know how, after nearly 30 years of cycling, I managed to miss that one.

[andiewest]

Thanks for explaining "tits" to me. I do agree that sacrifices go both ways in a friendship. If I felt that she was moving out of her comfort zone a little bit and committed to regular training I would be much more accepting of her slower pace. I believe that she agreed to do the ride out of fear of being left out rather than out of any interest in cycling. She admits to hating every moment that she is on the bike.

[tulip]

Maybe she could be your crew. That way she could be involved and have a role, but she wouldn't have to ride. Or maybe she should just drop the whole thing since she obviously isn't into it. There's no reason she should poop on your party.

[indysteel]

I feel kind of sorry for your friend. Maybe it's time to talk to her about it. Maybe she just needs some assurance from her that it's okay for her to back out and that you can try to find a joint goal that's more appealing to both of you. I don't know what the dynamic is between the three of you, but it is hard to feel left out in a threesome. I've been in those shoes before.

[andiewest]

I know I sound a little hard nosed. She is truly a good friend and this cycling has created a difficult dynamic between the three of us. I have tried to talk to her about this and have apologized to her for not being clear about my expectations. I guess I just wanted an apology from her, for expecting me to put her goals ahead of my own. I have let her know that she is my friend regardless of whether she cycles or not. Anyway, waiting for the weather to warm up a bit so I can get back out on my bike. I will go to a spin class tonight just to keep my legs moving.

Andie

[Cataboo]

You don't sound hardnosed to me - it's just difficult to cycle at someone else's pace. I can ride with people that are slightly faster than me or slightly slower than me without too much problem... But people that are way slower or way faster, I have a hard time riding with. The former because they're cutting into my biking/training time and it does affect my conditioning, and the latter because I feel horrible for slowing them down.

[indysteel]

And I son't want to sound wholly unsympathetic to your situation. It wasn't entirely clear from your OP what understanding you had with your friend when you first decide to do the ride our how clear the expectations were. From the sound of it, you've tried to address the issue and offered some solutions. If she's not interested in trying and isn't even having fun, then this sounds like her problem, bot yours. While it would ideal I'd you could sort it out without much drama, that might not be possible. There's only so much you can do for someone who's seemingly more interested in complaining. Perhaps it's time to cut her loose (in terms of the ride)--with the proviso that if she decides to really get on board with training, then you're there for her. If she's not, then you'd like to spend time together in some other fashion.

Good luck and kudos for the progress you've made in getting back in shape.

[Trek420]

It's the only thing I dislike about cycling other than that events start soooo early in the morning; all the *&^% sorting. "I ride 30-40 miles brisk pace, you like 50 - 60 miles dizzyingly fast pace on the flats, she's riding 20 miles slow but loooooves hills ...." Can we ride together? Mmmmaybe, maybe not.

Options could include but are not limited to :);
you bring beater/errand/fixed gear bikes she brings road bike.
do a spin class together.
cross train together.
do the same ride, she rides her pace you do hill repeats*
find a local club with tiers. Meet at start/finish/recovery meal

*there's a possibility of her feeling bad as you do the hill 5 times as she rides up it once but whatever. As long as she's training she will get there too. You encourage and inspire her and sip a recovery beverage as you wait at the top.

[andiewest]

Thanks for brainstorming all those suggestions. I think I will try the hill repeats. Our LBS is just starting a woman's club ride, so I think that might suggest that we do that together.

Did a spin and strength training class today. It was an awesom workout.

Andie

[redrhodie]

you bring beater/errand/fixed gear bikes she brings road bike.


I love this idea. Here's some more:

You could adjust your brake so it's rubbing a little. I've done a few too many newbie miles with a rubbing brake. It definitely slows you down.

Wear a large windbreaker and let her draft.

Carry her gear. My bf makes me do this when we ride to the beach, and then drops me. He's a real prince. :rolleyes:

Put heavy tires on your bike, and make sure hers are pumped to the max.

Actually, are you sure her bike doesn't have an issue? Maybe it's not her. Sometimes, it's the bike.

[Trek420]

... her comment that she hates every moment on the bike means she doesn't really want to be there.


Actually, are you sure her bike doesn't have an issue? Maybe it's not her. Sometimes, it's the bike.

I felt the same way before I got my namesake bike fit; loved the sport and the idea of riding but hated being on the bike. Has she had the bike fit?

Invite her to TE :) .... after deleting this thread ;) :rolleyes:



I love this idea. Here's some more:

Her fast training days become your recovery ride.

[Tri Girl]

I'm stuck on the remark that she hates every moment of riding. We all know that when you do a century, by about mile 70 finishing is FAR more mental than physical at that point. If she's already mentally out of the game from the start, even if she can keep a fast pace, there's no way she'll finish if she's hating it. Mind over matter and all- and if you mind then it doesn't matter how fast you're moving- it's going to be a horrible experience.

I wonder if maybe the three of you could do an overnight tour. A S24O (sub 24 hour overnight bike trip). Touring is always a more relaxed pace anyway, and that way you guys could still do the cycling thing together, but it would be a different mindset. Heck- you could carry all the gear in a BOB trailer and she could ride gear-free and then your paces might match. :p Pack up the camping gear, ride to a state park and camp out overnight and make it a girls weekend, then ride home the next day. Or just throw some overnight things in a day pack and ride to another town and stay at a B&B and make a girls weekend out of it.

Just saying... she seems to not enjoy cycling, so maybe if you made it more casual/fun she'd still feel a part of the "cycling trio" without having to push the training like you need to do when training for a century. You two could still do your century, and leave the more relaxed pace for a weekend getaway every couple months.

[Pedal Wench]

The reality is that perhaps even with all the training in the world, your paces might never match. Putting that expectation before any of you got on bikes in the first place might be a great excuse to re-evaluate the entire ride.
To make her feel better, maybe tell her how amazing it would be if she was your personal support crew on the ride. That way she's involved, helping, there at the start and finish, and she's not hating every minute of the ride.

[andiewest]

Wow, I am so impressed by all of your creativity and thoughtfulness.

A large part of it is the bike. She is riding a very upright comfort type bike, whereas we are both riding road bikes. I have offered to let her use one of my bikes but she has not taken me up on that offer. I spoke to her yesterday and she said that she is buying a bike this weekend and is committed to training on her own. I question the wisdom of buying a bike when she hates cycling, but . . .

I spoke with my other training partner today. As we are doing a metric century in 5 weeks (my reluctant riding friend is not doing this ride), we need to build up our distance. Before each ride we will let rr(reluctant rider) know if it is a training ride (what our speed and distance will be) or if it is a recovery ride. She can decide if she wants to join in. The problem is that we are doing a lot of indoor training as she weather is cold and the nights are dark, so we often just do one or two rides on the road each week. Sometimes not even that if the ground is covered with snow or if it is pouring rain (we live in the Pacific Nw).

I like the idea of a weekend ride that is more relaxed. Unfortunately, as we are all mothers of young kids, the century ride in July is really our only chance to get away without our kids.

She told me yesterday, that her husband (who is an avid cyclist) is furious with me and our other cycling friend. He said that we are not following cycling etiquette and we that we must never drop the slowest rider. We do get far ahead of her, but we usually stop every 10-15 minutes to let her catch up. When she catches up she often says something like "slow and steady wins the race". She almost never appears out of breath or as though she is pushing herself.

Anyway, our friendship was not founded on cycling. Our husbands all ride together and they have been urging us for years to take it up. I really just want to go out and enjoy my rides.

Andie

[jessmarimba]

Maybe for longer rides that she can't complete yet, you two start early and then meet her for the last third or so? Hopefully then your being more tired combined with her being fresh would help keep you guys together.

I think her husband needs to understand that if she insists on riding the comfort bike and not training during the week she is somewhat resigning herself to not keeping up. She may never be as fast or strong as you guys, but she's not even meeting you halfway.

[Tri Girl]

Furious, huh?

Tell her husband to help her train if he is such an avid cyclist.

Ha! +1 :D

[Jiffer]

Wow, I just read this thread for the first time and it's been a while since the last post. I'm really curious how this saga is playing out!

I can feel for both you and your reluctant friend ... but mostly for you. I'm wondering if she got the new bike and if she likes it and if it maybe motivated her to train more. Before you said she was getting a new bike, I agreed with the post that said she'd never finish the century. If she's only riding once a week on a comfort bike ... and not already strong from any other form of exercise, that would be a large feat to accomplish even for someone who really WANTED to do it.

If time is an issue, she can get some good training in in a short period of time. She can do a 30 minute ride with some intervals, for one.

As for you, you have already gotten a lot of advice on how to do your weekly ride with her and still challenge yourself. The century itself is what I'm thinking more about. After all these months of training, you're going to want to do your best century possible, which you won't be able to do at her pace. Here's what I'm thinking. First of all, there's still a lot of time between now and July, so things could change drastically. She could get her act together and actually get close to your level, things could stay pretty much the same and she could ride much slower than you ... or she could just give up and decide not to do it. (I'm thinking the longer the "long rides" get ... the more likely she may decide this is not for her.) At any rate, if I were in your shoes, I would be prepared that she is going to do the century and she is going to do it slow. I would ride with her for the sake of the friendship. BUT ... I would SO plan another century shortly after it, and THAT can be you and your other friend's big goal to do at your pace. The century you do with your reluctant friend can be a training ride for your "real century". ;)

And then once this century with the reluctant rider is over, you have no more obligation, other than if you choose to ride with her once a week and employ one of the many training tactics you can do when riding with a slower rider. My husband usually rides his mountain bike when he rides with me (and a lot of other people, actually, cause he's just way too strong!). Other things he does, especially if on his road bike, is he will ride in a slower cadence, get out of the saddle and stand for long periods of time, burst up the hills and wait at the top, and, of course, he does all the pulling. However, there are days when he is tired from a hard effort the day before ... or several days in a row, and especially if he's on his mountain bike, I can actually ride a little stronger than him ... particularly if he's in recovery mode and I'm in fast paced mode.

Maybe you can switch bikes with your friend when you ride together! You ride the heavier "comfy" bike and she can ride your road bike! Haha!

Another thought I had about your friend, if her husband seriously wants to support her riding, they might consider a tandem. Then she'd be right there with him and anyone else that can go the pace the two of them together can go (at least your pace, if not faster, I would imagine ... depending on how strong he is). That's how my husband got me into cycling. We got a road tandem and eventually I was ready for my own bike. We no longer have the tandem, but just tonight he was bringing up the idea of getting one again, cause he misses riding together more.

Well, I'm really curious how this thing plays out, so do keep us posted. We can call your soap opera "As the Wheel Spins"! :D

[Cataboo]

I think it's time to splurge on a babysit for all your kids and go on a group ride with all the husbands - RR's husband can be sweeper and never drop her.

[Biciclista]

Furious, huh?

Tell her husband to help her train if he is such an avid cyclist.

no kidding!

[indysteel]

Furious, huh?

Tell her husband to help her train if he is such an avid cyclist.

Ha + 2.

I'd be really surprised if they haven't gone several rounds themselves--the relunctant rider and her husband--about their own cycling imcompatability.

[maillotpois]

Yeah, that's lame - why is it YOUR responsibility to make her a cyclist? Shouldn't her husband be participating in this project?

[zoom-zoom]

I think it's time to splurge on a babysit for all your kids and go on a group ride with all the husbands - RR's husband can be sweeper and never drop her.

+1 meeellion!

[TrekJeni]

+1 meeellion!

Make that TWO million!!!!!!!

I lost a best friend because of cycling. She is a mother of two kids that are very active in sports and her husband worked late hours meaning she would have to ferry the kids back and forth to practice. I went out of my way to drive to the soccer fields where her kids were practicing, come up with a route and then ride with her. I always did this for her to accommodate her schedule.

We also participated in a charity ride which included free coaching. Even though there were about 30 people at all the training rides with multiple speed groups she demanded that I ride in the same group she did. I was considerably faster than she was. Even after addressing the issue, she was rude and snotty that I wanted to ride with the faster speed group.

As far as doing hill repeats while waiting her to climb the hill.... well that didn't work out either. She would be pissed by the time she got to the top and it was always ugly.

We finally just went our separate ways.

In the end, even though you do all the concession making, it might not be enough.

Good luck!

[andiewest]

Sorry I haven't responded. I didn't realize this thread was still going. I'll catch you up on what has happened.

On one of our training rides, two of us continued to ride ahead and then regroup every 10-15 minutes. This was going to be our longest ride at 50 km (30 miles). When we stopped for coffee at the 40km mark, my reluctant friend was visibly upset and not talking to either of us. I decided that this was the time to discuss it. I explained that riding was something that I was doing for health and fitness reasons (I recently finished surgery and treatments for breast cancer) and that cycling was one of the few things that alleviated my stress and anxiety. I wasn't riding ahead in order to make her feel bad, but just because riding faster made me feel good. My goal of riding the century was a personal one, which she decided to do after I had already committed to it. I also said that she would need to ride more than once a week if she hoped to complete the century in July. My other friend explained that she had a personal goal of riding the century in 7 hours and that at our current pace it would take 11 hours. This discussion upset my friend and she left the coffee shop, called her husband for a ride home and stopped talking to us.

My other friend, the peacemaker, put together a training schedule with mileage and speeds that we would try to keep to. We all discussed this and agreed to it. We are taking a little break from training as a threesome as two of us are doing a metric century on April 3. The reluctant rider is riding on her own and attempting to increase her speed and mileage so that she can better keep up. We are supposed to resume training together after the metric century.

Unfortunately, this has brought up other issues in our friendship. We had a long talk last week and I think we will be able to move forward from this. We have both agreed to communicate more clearly and let the other one know when something is hurtful or not working for us. We have agreed to disagree on the cycling. She admitted that she never really intended to complete the century and thought that we would all back out once the distances increased. Even after all of our discussions she still insisted that we must always stick together. She compared riding with her to going for a ride with our children. We wouldn't leave them behind. I told her that I would not go on a training ride with my children.

As far as the century ride. I have decided that I will do it with my husband. The century is part of the Seattle to Portland ride. I am only doing the first day of it. My husband is happy to ride with me on the first day and ride at his own pace the next. My reluctant friend has made it clear that she would expect me to stick with her throughout the century no matter what. I have visions of her stopping for 10-15 minutes every few miles and I just can't or am not willing to do that. My other friend has said that if Relucant Rider follows the training schedule she will ride with her. The schedule involves 6 days of week of riding and building to 150-175 miles per week. I guess no one really thinks that she will follow the training plan. She has bought a new road bike and is spending quite a bit of time on her trainer. I think she might surprise us and complete the ride after all. I hope she does. I will be there to celebrate with her at the finish line.

I realize that I am putting my personal fitness goals ahead of our friendship, but really, for me, completing this century has always been about regaining my strength and health. I decided to do this ride last July. I was fat, weak and sick and had to get off and push my bike up a very small incline. After almost tossing my bike over a ridge, hyperventilating and many tears, I decided that next July I would ride in the Seattle to Portland.

[Kerry1976]

She admitted that she never really intended to complete the century and thought that we would all back out once the distances increased. Even after all of our discussions she still insisted that we must always stick together. She compared riding with her to going for a ride with our children. We wouldn't leave them behind. I told her that I would not go on a training ride with my children.

This part made me gasp out loud (seriously). She's angry at both of you when she never had a commitment to actually complete the task? And then, to be worse, she's upset because you didn't fail with her? That is really disingenuous. Not cool! She has no right to be upset when she never actually committed in the first place.

And, to compare it to leaving children behind just doesn't even make sense. Like you said, you wouldn't even take your children on such a training ride. The logic makes no sense.

And she is comparing herself to a child? HUH?

I should add - she should be thrilled that you and your other friend are making good progress towards a great goal, not being upset because you didn't quit on it and "stick together."

WOW.

[ny biker]

I think you gotta do what you gotta do. Your plan makes sense to me.

Sometimes difficult experiences, like health problems, cause you to see friends differently than before, and relationships might change as a result. But your own health and well-being is the most important thing here, for you and your family.

So good luck and enjoy riding your bike!!

[zoom-zoom]

She admitted that she never really intended to complete the century and thought that we would all back out once the distances increased. Even after all of our discussions she still insisted that we must always stick together. She compared riding with her to going for a ride with our children. We wouldn't leave them behind. I told her that I would not go on a training ride with my children.

:eek: Are her eyes brown? 'Cause she's full of sh!t. I could not be friends with someone so passive-aggressive and immature. I don't have patience for pettiness and drama from my FRIENDS. Perhaps you are a better woman than I...I would drop her on the bike and on a personal level, as well.

[Tri Girl]

WOW:eek:
She's acting like a child, so like a child, she should be left at home on training rides.

I hope she comes through, but she is far too selfish to keep you from attaining your goals.
Train like you need to FOR YOU!:)

[Crankin]

I just can't understand why someone would purposefully want to ride in an event with those that are faster, if she can't accept being alone for most of the ride. This will breed deep resentment. The fact that she "thought you wouldn't follow through," is just, well, strange.
I get upset when others, all of a sudden, speed up and leave me in the dust. It just reminds me of my weaknesses. But, the people I ride with don't do this. They either ride about the same speed as me, or a little faster, or slower. There are some days DH pushes me to my limit, but I know when those days are; usually I set the limits in the beginning of the ride.
This thread just emphasizes the reason why it's important to find riding partners or groups who have the same goals as you do, or enjoy riding alone. Everyone has expectations of what will happen on a ride, and I find that it goes best when they are clearly delineated before the start.
It's funny, I nordic ski with people who are clearly better than me and it doesn't bother me as much. I feel like I am still working to get there and have seen a lot of progress. For some reason, cycling evokes more "feelings" about this. I say I'm not competitive, but I am in some ways. Not racer competitive, but competitive. I am betting that this is what your friend is feeling. She probably wants to ride like you, but for some reason, can't or won't put in the time.
I ride with a friend who is sort of like that. She makes it clear she will never be as fast as me, and she doesn't even try. My rides with her are just fun and I certainly won't let the friendship die over this. We were friends long before she started riding. I get annoyed occasionally, but then I get over it.

[Catrin]

Andi - good for you for knowing what is important to you and not letting your health and goals get set aside over this very passive-aggressive person. Train like you need to in order to meet your goals. I hope your friend surprises everyone - including herself - and makes it, but do what you need to do.

I am not a fast rider, probably never will be. I accept that and do the best I can - I ride all-day-long, but I do wind up riding alone on group rides. That is fine, it doesn't bother me - and I don't expect friends to slow down to ride with me. Occasionally someone does ride with me for a time, and that is great, but it doesn't ruin my ride, day, or mood, when they return to their usual riding speed :)