Parking privileges for pregnant women

[shootingstar]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/new-cars/auto-news/nyc-to-consider-parking-privileges-for-pregnant-women/article1890660/?cid=art-rail-autonews#comments

Proposal in NYC.

I've never heard it before. But I've never paid attention because I've never been pregnant.

However, at a construction site with decent parking lot, one pregnant woman (her first baby) requested that she park right against the main administrative building. I mean less than 10 ft. from the 2 step staircase with porch to get into our building. :confused:

She got the privilege or safety measure?? Actually she had to move car later in a few months, because a huge 6 ft. deep hole was being dug right in front of the building..(actually in front of my office) A bike ramp was being built. :o

How does this jive with my mother who had several children, pregnant at different times and had to do most of the housework anyway with my father away working full-time? And we were either in school or too young to help her do certain tasks? She did call upon her own children to do certain stuff --that were child appropriate tasks. We had a 2 storey house with basement.

I'm lost..

[PamNY]

I'd be surprised if this turns out to be very important.

For one thing, the no parking zones are usually already full of illegally parked cars. Second, some of them are marked "no parking" for very good reasons such as fire hydrant. How would that be worked out?

I think it's just some politician trying to get attention. Personally, I am opposed to anything that encourages use of cars in Manhattan.

Comparing the experience of prior generations doesn't matter much. My grandmother had eleven children and a farm during the depression. I doubt if she would want her life to be the the model for future mothers.

[marni]

when did being prenant become a condition of illness and disability? I always believed that being pregnant was one of the more ultimate statements of being healthy. I also believe that being pregnant is not a condition of stupidity so why can't these ladies figure out that a bit of walking is good for them and that they should problem solve instead of whine?

Veteran of three home births with midwives in Europe and being up and about at least some of the time within 48 hours, with babies bundled in a sling against me because so was everyone else. It all depends on what you model on. All of my kids rode in a backpack at three months when they were wiggling too much for a sling, and when they were old enough to sit up steadily, they rode in a seat on my bike handlebar or in an umbrella stroller as I walked or rode public transport.

Maybe I'm just being grumpy-

[jessmarimba]

I haven't noticed here. But it wasn't uncommon to see parking spots for expectant mothers when I lived in Richmond.

marni, I see your point, but I'd rather see pregnant women get close parking spots than people like my neighbor, who has a handicap parking pass simply because of her weight issues.

[Koronin]

I know a couple of malls in the Charlotte, NC area have a couple spots for pregnant women right next to the handicap ones. But those are the only places I've ever seen them at.

[hebe]

The biggest problem I had parking when pregnant was not walking from the car to the store/office whatever as opening the car door far enough to get out without hitting the next car :o I would park at the end of a row or next to a chevronned space where possible. We have tiny parking spaces here and I was carrying an extra 30lbs. The only exception was one of work's remote offices where I regularly had to park a 15minute walk away, then walk in uphill with a wheeled laptop case. The office manager took pity on me and offered me an unused disabled space, which I was hugely grateful for.

It annoys me more when people with no children park in the parent and baby spaces because they can't be bothered walking. Those spaces are wider for a reason, and it's not for big cars.

[Crankin]

Unless you are having some sort of physical issue caused by the pregnancy, it's just not necessary.
When I was 9 months pregnant with DS #1, I went to a local school on a Saturday, to sign up to join the JCC. As I was walking from my car to the entrance, I noticed another pregnant woman and her husband going the same way. I remember being fascinated and sort of horrified that when this couple got to the curb, they stopped, and the husband had to "assist" the woman in stepping up the curb onto the sidewalk. She couldn't lift her foot/leg.
It turned out that our babies were born on the same day. There was nothing "wrong" with her, except she let pregnancy become an excuse not to move.

[limewave]

While I was pregnant, I never felt the need to use an "Expectant Mother" parking space. They aren't very common here, but I've seen them around.

HOWEVER, when I had really young children and was toting around car seats, purse, diaper bags, etc. I could have used a "Mother with small children" parking place. I thought that on many, many, occasions.

[shootingstar]

It annoys me more when people with no children park in the parent and baby spaces because they can't be bothered walking.

This makes me realize what I don't pay attention because I don't drive nor own a car. I haven't seen that type of parking signage ..not in a common way or anywhere where I've frequented certain shopping areas regularily.

I've been in a taxi twice this year. It will probably be the last car ride for next few months.

[PamNY]

This law wouldn't reserve a specific spot for pregnant women. It would simply give them a placard that allowed parking in "no standing" or "no parking zones." For the most part, it would be parallel parking on the street.

There are already a lot of special parking placards; I marvel at how often "emergency blood delivery" is required on blocks nowhere near a hospital.

I do look out for pregnant women and parents with small children on the subway, and will gladly give up my seat to help them.

Much as I hate cars, I can understand why someone in late pregnancy might avoid the subway. Some stations are deep and there are multiple flights of stairs.

[hebe]

It annoys me more when people with no children park in the parent and baby spaces because they can't be bothered walking.

This makes me realize what I don't pay attention because I don't drive nor own a car. I haven't seen that type of parking signage ..not in a common way or anywhere where I've frequented certain shopping areas regularily. <polite snip>

Mother and child signage is very common here at supermarkets and shopping centres, I guess families spend a lot, and it's just another way of attracting the shoppers. One near here has spaces for "Parent and child, up to 12 years" which I find rather on the generous side - I certainly don't expect to be using those spaces once small girl is at school. The main benefit to them, for me, is not the proximity to the store but that fact that there is more space to get my daughter in and out of her car-seat safely, which normally requires having the passenger side door wide open. Dedicated larger spaces just make it a little easier.

[OakLeaf]

Some stations are deep and there are multiple flights of stairs.

And they can be crowded. Can't speak from experience, but I've heard that your balance tends to be way off during pregnancy, and it sure makes sense that it would be. I wouldn't want to put myself at risk of being inadvertently pushed.

[Catrin]

It has become a pretty common sight in Indianapolis to see parking spots for pregnant women and mothers with toddlers. Typically I've noticed this at grocery stores and pharmacies, not elsewhere.

[Grog]

I think it can be pretty judgmental to say that some pregnant women are using their pregnancy as an excuse to not exercise while in fact not knowing the details of a specific person. I am very certain that it's common, but I also know a few women who were quite incapacitated at some point of their pregnancy and in particular had a really hard time walking. Just because one woman's pregnancy was smooth until the end doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. I don't see pregnancy as a disease or anything, but it's also not quite business as usual for a lot of people.

Case in point, I was at a talk by Mia Birk last week. Mia Birk, the bike activist and planner who wrote the book Joyride, is the pretty amazing woman who conducted most of the transformation of Portland into a cycling-friendly city. In the Q&A period, someone asked her about common interests (from a political point of view) between people with disabilities and cyclists when it comes to public transportation infrastructure. In her response, she mentioned that in the last month of one of her pregnancies she was very, very miserable, had a really hard time walking, and all of a sudden totally understood why bus stops were located every other block, not every 4th block. You can hardly accuse Mia Birk of making excuses not to exercise, but I'm pretty sure that she would gladly have been dropped off at the door of any store rather than walk from the confines of the parking lot (dodging crazy parking-spot seekers in the process) during that miserable month.

[Crankin]

I'm sorry if I sounded judgmental. Everything wasn't perfect in my pregnancies, but I never felt incapacitated. I think I look at it from the perspective of someone who would have been very happy to walk somewhere, instead of being on "house arrest" due to premature labor with my second child. I went from being at the gym, doing aerobics one day, to in the hospital the next.

[malkin]

I used to drive a Honda CRX and when I was pregnant there came a time when I couldn't get out without help. This happened pretty much all of a sudden one day in the grocery store parking lot.

I must have been quite a sight, rocking and bobbing, and a passerby stopped to help me. My neighbor helped me when I got home, and after that, I didn't try to drive that car until the kid could sit in her own seat.

[sfa]

Hmmm, I wonder if they would inadvertently increase birth rates in NYC by allowing parking in "no parking" zones to pregnant women! But seriously, the proposal is aimed at women having difficult pregnancies. I've known lots of women whose doctors have limited their activity levels during pregnancy because of various complications that are certainly no fault of the woman--preeclampsia, placenta previa, gestational diabetes can all require that the woman take it easy to avoid further complications or premature labor. While of course there would be potential for abuse of this privilege, I could see that it would make life a lot easier for women with pregnancy complications.

The first time I saw one of the "mother and child" parking spaces was when I was visiting Atlanta when my DD was a year old, and they seem to be common near my in-laws in NC. It strikes me as a nice benefit for when you're dragging around a toddler with a diaper bag, stroller, etc., but I don't remember having any particular difficulty walking distances when I was heavily pregnant (getting out of low chairs is another matter. And don't even ask me about trying to get out of a low waterbed while nine months pregnant!). They aren't common around where I live--I know of one Target parking lot with one space and that's it. I think hebe is right that it's more of a marketing tool--if they were serious about allowing close-in parking for pregnant women and parents with small children, there would be a lot more spaces than just that one.

[zoom-zoom]

When I was finishing up my last semester of college I was also in my 3rd trimester of pregnancy...and it was Winter...in MI. I applied for a special disabled sign for my car so that I could park closer to the campus buildings, instead of walking a quarter mile or more on poorly cleared, icy pathways from the student parking lots to the classroom buildings. I had several near falls that really terrified me. Pregnant women don't have the best balance with all that weight so unevenly distributed...add ice into the mix and those trips to and from my classes always caused me a good deal of stress.

Even so, the school still required that I present a doctor's note...and my doctor wasn't all that eager to present it (he was a major a$$...biggest mistake I ever made was having that guy handle my pregnancy. Long story, but he's no longer practicing, if that says anything). I only needed this pass for a few weeks in December, but it really brought major peace of mind.

[Biciclista]

during the mid part of my first pregnacy, suddenly I had excruciating pains whenever I tried to walk very far (probably having to do with those ligaments loosening.) I forced myself to walk all the way out to my horse pasture to feed the horse. And I was young, and a wimp..

I love the image of Malkin stuck in her car!!!!

[Cataboo]

What bugs me is people using a disabled pass that clearly belongs to someone else in their family; there aren't many of those spots to go around.


I know a couple people who have disabled passes who look perfectly healthy - yet have horrible chronic conditions that they need those passes for. It's very easy to assume that because someone looks normal that they don't have a right to use a handicap space, but you really can't see in what shape someone's heart or any other organs are just by looking at them.

I also if I'm driving someone with a handicap pass, will quite often drop them off in front of the building and then go park in the handicap spot myself since we're probably going to walk to the car together.

[Biciclista]

Cataboo, that very well may be but let's face it, the most popular parking spaces are right next to the handicap spaces And most handicapped people that can walk SHOULD walk. and the same goes for all those other people parked right next to the door!!!
For most of us, a little walk can't hurt us...

[Cataboo]

Cataboo, that very well may be but let's face it, the most popular parking spaces are right next to the handicap spaces And most handicapped people that can walk SHOULD walk. and the same goes for all those other people parked right next to the door!!!
For most of us, a little walk can't hurt us...


I obviously hang out with way more incapacitated people than you do ;) And spend a lot more time being the caregiver to people who need a lot of support because of poor balance in combination with poor vision. Yes, walking is good for people, but generally speaking it's best to get that exercise walking done in a controlled environment with no curbs, obstacles, ands lots of passerbys - because you would be absolutely amazed how many people will just shove past someone walking with a cane or a walker. That's when walking for them is best when you take them to a shopping mall early in the morning before its open or out on a track if the weather is good. Because what potentially will happen in falls is catastrophic.

And much like mothers with young children, caregivers who are having to support someone, guide their walking, while carrying personal items for both of them... are not having an easy time of it no matter how healthy they are and handicapped spaces help.

I don't presume to know why someone has a handicapped parking pass or to judge them for using one. It's none of my business.

[PamNY]

Hmmm, I wonder if they would inadvertently increase birth rates in NYC by allowing parking in "no parking" zones to pregnant women! .

That is the most insightful comment in this thread.:p

[lph]

what really gets me is the way so many stores are built to accommodate cars while people on foot don't get safe passage. What are pedestrians supposed to be doing out in a parking lot in the first place?! Our large residential area has very restricted access for cars and is very child- and pedestrian friendly, but to go grocery shopping 400 yards away you have to cross the road (on an ok ped crossing), but then cross diagonally across the entire entrance area to the parking lot, which has no designated walking areas, is almost unlit and where drivers come zooming up from the highway and swerve in to grab some groceries before heading home. It's bloody lethal, and idiotic planning. It was the one place I was worried about letting my son walk to when he was smaller - the local grocery store :mad: And he has had the run of the neighbourhood and the local woods since he was school age.

[shootingstar]

what really gets me is the way so many stores are built to accommodate cars while people on foot don't get safe passage. What are pedestrians supposed to be doing out in a parking lot in the first place?!

I hope folks here remember that I have several sisters who have had several multiple pregnancies and so got to hear their complaints..usually in final trimester. Not before.

Obviously I need to get pregnant to truly know...

OR like everyone else we will all grow old and more frail over time, so we will experience the shoddy treatment that we will receive from time to time.

As for safe pedestrian walkways, lph. I totally agree. The more we plan helpful safe walkways now..it will benefit way more people in the end.

[Biciclista]

Shooting star, your sisters had several multiple pregnancies? Lots of twins and triplets? how many??

Cataboo,you're right, I'm sorry. I have just known a few people with handicapped permits who REALLY would have been okay without them. I've just watched the wheel chair set of our society grow exponentially in my life and it scares the dickens out of me.

[Cataboo]

Shooting star, your sisters had several multiple pregnancies? Lots of twins and triplets? how many??

Cataboo,you're right, I'm sorry. I have just known a few people with handicapped permits who REALLY would have been okay without them. I've just watched the wheel chair set of our society grow exponentially in my life and it scares the dickens out of me.

Oh, no worries - it's actually harder to get a handicapped parking pass than you would think, at least it is here (my father once had to bring my little brother in a wheelchair to the DMV because they were giving him such a hardtime and refusing to give him a placard despite having the correct paperwork). It's sort of like getting disability or being prescribed pain meds, despite the fact it seems like everyone's abusing it, it's really hard for those who actually need it to get it.

I have a friend from high school who got swine flu a year and a half ago - it got into her lungs and she couldn't clear it for about 5 months, and she's been diagnosed with at least 3 chronic illnesses over the last year. Most days, she can barely get out of bed. Yet, she has to keep her job and for the most part, she looks fine. Tired, but fine. So the whole looking fine while being very sick has made it difficult for her to get her job to be flexible (many doctor letters later, she's allowed to work from home half the week) and she does have a handicapped parking pass. There are a few times when I've encouraged her to do a lot of walking (okay, by a lot, I'm talking about 8 blocks or maybe a mile, so really not a lot...) and she does do it. But what happens is that she spends the next few days paying for that exertion and unable to work or get out of bed. I have been places with her that people wouldn't believe she had anything wrong with her or give her access to handicap spots because of it. I know her well enough to know that she's never been a lazy person, and she hates the limitations on her life. And I hope that in the future she finds a way to manage things so that she can function and doesn't need handicapped parking, 'cause she's in her mid 30s and possibly facing spending the rest of her life like this... But the reality is that she does need handicapped parking until she or the doctors figure out a way for her to function. But she also shouldn't have to justify or explain her entire medical history to people that think she looks fine and shouldn't be using handicapped parking.

So, it's easy to say people need to walk and it's good for them. And I agree, americans don't do nearly enough walking. And i guess I'm being naive thinking that most people who have a handicapped parking spot would be quite happy to give that up for better health and that most family members of people who have a handicapped parking spot realize how important those spots are to the actually handicapped and don't abuse them.

[jessmarimba]

I had a temporary permit with my back, which I used whether or not I was wearing my brace. I looked perfectly healthy without it.

Walking was good for me but it was pretty hazardous for me to get back to my car with my purchases. My balance still isn't what it used to be.

What I find really amusing is that our open spaces are required to have handicapped spots at the trailheads. Which is funny to me b/c why would I need to park an extra 10 feet closer if I was going out for a 3 mile hike? It's not like these are paved, wheelchair accessible trails! I never figured out the logic behind those.

[OakLeaf]

Thanks for your comments, Cataboo, I totally agree.

I will say though, that at least in Ohio, to get a parking pass, your doctor needs to certify that you're unable to walk a certain distance without difficulty. I totally understand that someone doesn't need to be an amputee or a paraplegic to need a parking sticker, but when I see someone get out of a car with a handicapped placard and stride quickly and purposely to and through the store, I think I'm justified in assuming that it's not their pass.

It's such a problem at the NASCAR races in Daytona that they set up special enforcement. A dozen or more people get busted every event for borrowing a placard from a relative or friend, so they can get a primo parking space, and not have to walk so far to the grandstand where they'll be sitting and drinking beer for four hours. :mad:


ETA - I think the person who lends the placard should get busted in those cases, too. They more than anyone should know the need for accessibility and appreciate how they're taking the parking space away from someone who actually does need it.

[Jolt]

when did being prenant become a condition of illness and disability? I always believed that being pregnant was one of the more ultimate statements of being healthy. I also believe that being pregnant is not a condition of stupidity so why can't these ladies figure out that a bit of walking is good for them and that they should problem solve instead of whine?

Maybe I'm just being grumpy-

I agree with you! Not that I'm the best person to comment, never having been pregnant, but I don't think you're being grumpy at all, I think you're being reasonable.

ETA: Obviously I'm talking about normal, uncomplicated pregnancies, not those where there's a legitimate medical problem.

[PamNY]

Apparently the proposed bill in NYC would require a doctor's note stating that the woman is experiencing physical or mobility challenges (http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=7914323).

I'll bet ob-gyns have mixed feelings about this, considering all the requests they would likely get.

[OakLeaf]

I wonder. There was just that report the other day that said there is no known medical benefit to bed rest during pregnancy, yet it's prescribed to thousands of women...

[zoom-zoom]

I wonder. There was just that report the other day that said there is no known medical benefit to bed rest during pregnancy, yet it's prescribed to thousands of women...

And look at the rate of c-sections today vs. even 20-30 years ago. Over a third of babies can't possibly require surgical birth. I know mine didn't. With a different doc I sure as heck wouldn't have an 8" scar on my lower abdomen. :mad:

[PamNY]

I wonder if part of the impetus for this bill would be difficulty in carrying things more than walking.

Remember, this is not a situation where most stores have parking lots or where most people live in houses with a driveway. If I had a car, I would garage it at least a half mile away from home, and that's not at all unusual.

There is literally no legal place to park (during the business day) where I live. When I go camping, for example, I have to either park in an illegal spot or double-park to drop off my gear.

I happen to live in an elevator building with a doorman, but lots of people don't. I've never been pregnant, but I assume that carrying heavy things might be a problem during the later stages of a complicated pregnancy. Add to that the necessity of climbing 3-4 flights of stairs in your building (which is not unusual) -- I can see where some people would ask for relief.

I don't think this bill is a good idea, but I am in awe of people who raise children in a walkup apartment (and plenty of people do).

[Crankin]

I tend to agree with Marni and Jolt, but I do know there are real reasons that women may have restrictions to activity, carrying things, such as pre-eclampsia.
As far as the bed rest, well, I went into premature labor at 30 weeks, 5 days after a bike accident, where the down tube shifter jammed into my stomach :mad:. I probably shouldn't have been riding, but after I was stabilized, I was told to stay home from work, but I did not have to stay in bed. There was some bleeding involved, so they had concerns about abruption of the placenta. Still, no one told me to lie down all day. My mom did have to come and stay with us for 4 weeks. After 2 weeks, I couldn't keep up with my 2 and half year old, pick him up, or drive. During the last 2 weeks, I got sick of it, drove myself to the doctor each week, took the kid to play group, and just dealt with it.
I had 2 totally natural vaginal deliveries after having an emergency C section at 8 months, with my first child, who was born with many physical issues and only lived for a day. Other than having an ultra sound at a certain point in each pregnancy to check for problems, my doctor never considered that I would have to have another C-section. Maybe because this was back in the 80's and we weren't so lawsuit happy?

[shootingstar]

I was told to stay home from work, but I did not have to stay in bed. There was some bleeding involved, so they had concerns about abruption of the placenta. Still, no one told me to lie down all day. My mom did have to come and stay with us for 4 weeks. After 2 weeks, I couldn't keep up with my 2 and half year old, pick him up, or drive. During the last 2 weeks, I got sick of it, drove myself to the doctor each week, took the kid to play group, and just dealt with it.
I had 2 totally natural vaginal deliveries after having an emergency C section at 8 months, with my first child, who was born with many physical issues and only lived for a day. Other than having an ultra sound at a certain point in each pregnancy to check for problems, my doctor never considered that I would have to have another C-section. Maybe because this was back in the 80's and we weren't so lawsuit happy?

I believe my 3 sisters each had to advocate strongly not to have a C-section.
From 3 sisters, there are 7 nieces and nephews. All 3 of them had/still work in the health care sector. Doctor-sister was walking around in the wards checking patients...up to her 8th month.

I know for certain 2 of them went jogging for first 4-5 months regularily, several times per week. It was always the last trimester that they were more slower/back ache, feet aching, etc. Got tired of just sitting around, waiting..

[OakLeaf]

Via Ben Sollee, a really cool cellist and cyclist:

http://www.good.is/post/85/

[PamNY]

Oak, thank you for posting that. I am emailing that piece to everyone I know. Our community worked really, really hard to get the school he mentions.

I adore Abigail Washburn, Bela Fleck and Sparrow. I am thrilled that the cellist from Sparrow understands my neighborhood (the more so since many people think they are experts on "Ground Zero").

Love it that he compares navigating the city with kids to a triathlon. Give me a choice, I think I'd pick the tri.

[Jolt]

Apparently the proposed bill in NYC would require a doctor's note stating that the woman is experiencing physical or mobility challenges (http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=7914323).

I'll bet ob-gyns have mixed feelings about this, considering all the requests they would likely get.

I'm glad it's at least requiring a doctor's note, to try and keep it to the cases where there's a true medical issue. However, I think you're right that ob/gyns are going to get a lot of requests--some people are probably going to abuse it. I just don't get the eagerness of some people to push for this kind of special treatment during what is, in general, a normal healthy process. It isn't exactly empowering to women, is it?

[Cataboo]

That is the most insightful comment in this thread.:p

Somehow I don't see people getting purposefully pregnant just to have better parking when it involves raising a child for 18 years, carrying a bowling ball in your tummy for several months, and dilating 10 cms. I suppose some of you on here would say, oh, but you don't have to dilate, you can just get a c section. HOwever, I don't see cutting through your abdomen as easier.

[Cataboo]

I'm glad it's at least requiring a doctor's note, to try and keep it to the cases where there's a true medical issue. However, I think you're right that ob/gyns are going to get a lot of requests--some people are probably going to abuse it. I just don't get the eagerness of some people to push for this kind of special treatment during what is, in general, a normal healthy process. It isn't exactly empowering to women, is it?

So... Am I being un-empowering to women if I give up my seat on the metro or a train to a pregnant woman? Or to old people? 'cause seriously, old people and pregnant woman could use the opportunity to stand up and train their balance skills and get their exercise and they really should just stop being lazy bums and avoiding it by taking my seat if I offer.

And when I see a handicapped person struggling with opening a door and walking through, I should just ignore them and leave them be, because even though they're handicapped, they can function just as well as the rest of society and they really should just practice doing it.

But as far as I'm concerned, it's common courtesy for me to offer my seat or to help someone struggling with a door or something - if they say that they're fine and they don't need help, I don't press.

Yeah, like all things in life, there will be people who abuse handicapped and pregnancy parking. That doesn't mean there isn't a good reason for it and we should take the option away from everyone. Because really, how much does this actually inconvenience all of you? How many people in NYC actually have cars? And when is it a benefit of having to drive through the city? ('cause frankly, anytime I've driven through NYC, I've been severely irked with everyone else there and stuck in traffic forever). From visiting NYC, I know I would really hate to be pregnant or disabled and navigating the metro system. Same with DC. It's hard to find the elevator access to the metro system.

I know at least in the DC area that there is very little designated handicapped street parking - basically you're allowed to park at a meter longer free if you have a handicapped pass...

[PamNY]

I'm glad it's at least requiring a doctor's note, to try and keep it to the cases where there's a true medical issue. However, I think you're right that ob/gyns are going to get a lot of requests--some people are probably going to abuse it. I just don't get the eagerness of some people to push for this kind of special treatment during what is, in general, a normal healthy process. It isn't exactly empowering to women, is it?

NOW has expressed reservations (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/01/uk-parking-pregnant-idUSLNE71006L20110201) about such a bill, and I can see their point.

On the other hand, nobody worries about empowerment of other people who have parking placards -- clergy, doctors, all manner of law enforcement, and a police benevolent organization (their surgeon parks in my nabe at times -- doing what, I don't know).

Ditto the ever-popular blood delivery people, whoever they may be. I've thought about documenting (with my camera) the extraordinary need for blood in our neighborhood and sending the results to a local paper. But I resist being the old lady who runs around doing things like that.

[Chile Pepper]

So... Am I being un-empowering to women if I give up my seat on the metro or a train to a pregnant woman? Or to old people?
…
But as far as I'm concerned, it's common courtesy for me to offer my seat or to help someone struggling with a door or something - if they say that they're fine and they don't need help, I don't press.


Special parking for "futura mamás" is pretty standard here in Chile. I loved it when I was pregnant! Why not? We also have check out lines that give priority to pregnant women, old folks, and pretty much anyone who is even mildly handicapped in anyway. So, if you are standing in one of these lines (there are others that are not priority lines), then you have to let the pregnant woman go ahead of you if she happens to show up while you are waiting. It's really nothing more than institutionalized common courtesy.

[Jolt]

So... Am I being un-empowering to women if I give up my seat on the metro or a train to a pregnant woman? Or to old people? 'cause seriously, old people and pregnant woman could use the opportunity to stand up and train their balance skills and get their exercise and they really should just stop being lazy bums and avoiding it by taking my seat if I offer.

And when I see a handicapped person struggling with opening a door and walking through, I should just ignore them and leave them be, because even though they're handicapped, they can function just as well as the rest of society and they really should just practice doing it.

But as far as I'm concerned, it's common courtesy for me to offer my seat or to help someone struggling with a door or something - if they say that they're fine and they don't need help, I don't press.

Yeah, like all things in life, there will be people who abuse handicapped and pregnancy parking. That doesn't mean there isn't a good reason for it and we should take the option away from everyone. Because really, how much does this actually inconvenience all of you? How many people in NYC actually have cars? And when is it a benefit of having to drive through the city? ('cause frankly, anytime I've driven through NYC, I've been severely irked with everyone else there and stuck in traffic forever). From visiting NYC, I know I would really hate to be pregnant or disabled and navigating the metro system. Same with DC. It's hard to find the elevator access to the metro system.

I know at least in the DC area that there is very little designated handicapped street parking - basically you're allowed to park at a meter longer free if you have a handicapped pass...

Put that way, I can see how my comment didn't come across quite right; sorry about that. I guess I am just envisioning the people who will want to use being 3 months pregnant as an excuse to not walk a little bit from their car to wherever they're going, because they just don't want to even though they can. Those are the ones I see as being un-empowering. Not the ones who truly are having difficulty.