Yoga-beginners & advanced into 1

[shootingstar]

Just a few short lunch-time sessions I've signed up for yoga squeezed in work schedule.

I was a little amazed that the instructor was teaching some difficult maneouvres --handstands against wall, headstands against wall and a position which is crouching down on haunches like a frog and lifting one's whole set of legs and feet by sticking out your elbows. Last time I was able to do the latter...was when I was 13 yrs. old.

I mean...we have a mix of beginners and advanced folks. :eek:

Mind you, I find it easier to naturally crouch-near sit by sitting on my haunches, folding my legs and apart, dropping my bum but bum never touching floor. Probably because I'm small boned and short..... It's a position one sees in certain cultures in the developing world when "resting" instead of standing while waiting.

[indysteel]

I don't know that I agree that those poses are advanced. Crow pose (the last one you described) takes some core strength and some fearlessness, but there's no harm in trying it as a beginner. Headstand is very doable with some proper instruction (assuming the yogi is being spotted and/or is using a wall. Handstand's probably the hardest. I personally don't practice it because of my hands, but again, with proper instruction, it's doable.

For me, the irony with yoga is that the poses you're most likely to do from the start--down dog, up dog, mountain pose, to name just a few--are difficult to do correctly. Regardless, if you're honoring your body, it's possible to at least attempt most poses. You may not get very far into them, but that's okay.

[shootingstar]

Well, who can do the crow's position, headstand here?

[indysteel]

With a good teacher, I bet most of TE could at least try the poses, assuming no pre-existing injury. I've been in any number of classes where I've seen it happen. Will it be perfect? No, but few yoga poses are at the beginning. That's not to say the poses are easy. It's just that I don't think they're outside the reach of a beginner.

[OakLeaf]

I don't think crow is very hard. Headstand at the wall, either. I'd characterize myself as an "intermediate beginner" yogini ... generally fairly athletic, but fairly new to yoga and not very consistent about my practice, unfortunately.

Both poses take some confidence, as indy said. My wrist isn't back to trying crow since my face plant on the asphalt, so when I do get to try it next time, I may find that I'm a little bit more nervous than I was about staring down the mat at close range... :rolleyes: Seriously, the first time I got into handstand at the wall, the teacher helped and held my legs and I literally shrieked as she eased me up. :p The next time, I went right up all by myself with a huge grin on my face. All about confidence and proprioception.

To get away from the wall with a headstand or especially handstand, you definitely need good core strength *and,* I think, the kind of proprioception that you can only develop by actually being upside down and figuring out where your legs and hips are when they're being supported by your spine and not the other way around. IOW, you have to do it to learn how to do it. There's a good description of where I am with yoga ... in a headstand, I can get both heels off the wall for no more than a few seconds at a time. Can't even begin to think about getting away from the wall in handstand. (Itching to have my wrist healed up enough to try.)


ETA - Good cuing (both verbal and touch) can go a VERY long way to developing proprioception. I've only really done yoga with very good teachers, Anusara-trained or certified (high emphasis on form).

[Crankin]

I couldn't do crow if I tried really hard. I can't even get my legs up off of the ground. Last time I could do that was in 5th grade.
When I was going to yoga regularly, I occasionally went to a class where we did the headstand against the wall. I think I remember doing it, but I just feel uncomfortable being in that position.
I have to agree with Shootingstar. I feel like those kinds of poses are more advanced. Since I practice at home now, I don't even attempt them.

[indysteel]

Like I said, there're not necessarily easy, but my guess--after countless yoga classes--is that for some, those poses are always going to be out of reach. It's not a question of where they are in their practice. For others, they'll be able to do them from day one. From a teacher's standpoint, some poses are worth teaching at all levels because students will never find out if they can do them unless they try. And there's no shame in trying and failing or falling short of some ideal.

I have been regularly practicing for almost 5 years now. I have a fairly strong practice, but regardless of what type of class I go to, there's inevitably at lease one pose that I can't do or can't do as well as I'd like. I spend little time ruminating on whether the pose was appropriate for that level of class or too "advanced." Rather, I merely accept that my body's not capable of that today. I do what I can; that's all any of us can do. Yoga, IMO, is as much about intention and effort as it as actualization and achievement.

If I can't do a particular pose, I either do something else or look around the class as others try it. In some of my advanced classes, we try some CRAZY arm balances, over 50 percent I'm not yet able to do. It's fun and inspiring, though, to watch others as they try.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative here. One of the things I've loved most about my yoga practice, though, is trying/doing things I never thought I could do and that were seemingly well beyond my 40+ year old body. The first time I did a full wheel (basically a backbend), I was utterly shocked. I'd never even been able to do them as a kid. So, I see a huge benefit to trying poses, even as a beginner, that are seemingly difficult. I've also learned that my body is not static. I could do things two years ago that I struggle with today because I was more fit, so my practice is a moving target. I like to allow enough room in my practice to be both surprised by, and forgiving with, my body.

[Crankin]

I guess my issue is that when I see people doing things I can't do, even with trying, it gets me mad. Reminds me of my "weaknesses." I'm the same way with cycling, running, and x country skiing. I know my limits, I've pushed past quite a few of them, but some things I just can't do. I may want to do them, but I either haven't practiced enough, I'm too scared, or I give up. Since this is such a "non-yoga" attitude, I found that when I was going to classes at my gym (which were taught by very good instructors), I learned who did things that I was at least OK with and I also never went to anything too advanced, usually mixed level 1 and 2, sometimes level 2, never 3. Come to think of it, I am also happier riding with people who are slower than me. Don't like to be reminded of what is hard for me. I think deep down I am very competitive, despite the fact that I was brought up in a very non-competitive home. It's just too bad I didn't harness some of this competitiveness into athletics when I was younger.
Totally not what a yoga class should be about, but, honestly, the way I feel.

[indysteel]

I understand where you're coming from; I sometimes feel that way myself. We all bring challenges to the mat for sure. There's one woman who teaches at my studio who used to also take one of my favorite classes, too. I don't know what she was in her former life (a dancer or gymnast maybe), but she's so friggin' flexible, it kills me. She has a habit of not really doing the pose the rest of us are doing, but some other hyper-pretzely thing instead. It used to really get on my nerves. I'm sure at least part of my reaction was pure jealousy. So, I'll freely admit that it's sometimes hard to not be competitive.

I've gotten a little more forgiving with myself this past year. Between some chronic pain and a busy schedule, I'm just so happy to make it to my mat at all. What I'm able to do on the mat is often beside the point. Stil, I have days where I'm just frustrated with it.

[OakLeaf]

To me, I think the first lesson of yoga is getting beyond "can" and "can't." It's like inverse Yoda: there is only try. Also, it's YOUR practice.

My teacher is fond of saying "the body is clay." It took me the better part of a year to get my upper arms to my head in Venus lock. That isn't a complicated or difficult position, but it takes some flexibility in the shoulder girdle. I just went to where I could and used the mechanics that she cued. Now, they just go.

My feet aren't near strong enough yet to do downward dog or Mountain correctly (as indysteel points out). But they're so much stronger and more flexible than they were when I started yoga. Little by little.

With my injury, I'm in a place for the first time where there are things I know I can't even try (for now), even modified. I still don't watch other people in the class, much. Monday when they did arm balances and today when they did handstands, I took the opportunity to work on my headstands. When they did backbends at the wall and then Wheel, I did Camel and Bow.

[emily_in_nc]

I guess my issue is that when I see people doing things I can't do, even with trying, it gets me mad. Reminds me of my "weaknesses." I'm the same way with cycling, running, and x country skiing. I know my limits, I've pushed past quite a few of them, but some things I just can't do. I may want to do them, but I either haven't practiced enough, I'm too scared, or I give up. Since this is such a "non-yoga" attitude, I found that when I was going to classes at my gym (which were taught by very good instructors), I learned who did things that I was at least OK with and I also never went to anything too advanced, usually mixed level 1 and 2, sometimes level 2, never 3. Come to think of it, I am also happier riding with people who are slower than me. Don't like to be reminded of what is hard for me. I think deep down I am very competitive, despite the fact that I was brought up in a very non-competitive home. It's just too bad I didn't harness some of this competitiveness into athletics when I was younger.
Totally not what a yoga class should be about, but, honestly, the way I feel.

Raising hand... yep, this is me too. :o

In 2009 we had free yoga and mat Pilates classes taught at work one day a week each by a certified instructor. Since this was a workplace, most of the folks in the class were rank beginners, and many had not even seen the inside of a gym in a couple decades. Most were 40+ in age. Although I fit the typical age profile, I was a gym rat and therefore had a distinct advantage coming into the classes. I found that I prided myself on being one of the "best" in both "beginner" classes (mind you, I would have been one of the "worst" had the classes been anything beyond beginner level!)

I don't like this in myself, but yes, I am competitive about such things. I feel the same about riding with stronger vs. weaker riders as you too, Crankin. I would always rather finish near the front than near the back. When I used to do club rides every weekend, prior to my accident, I was totally like this. I'm less that way now with cycling since I have pain issues that limit my speed and endurance, but I still have those tendencies.

I think a lot of it is just the first-born, straight-A student mentality I learned growing up in a high-achiever, academic household. But it shouldn't apply to yoga! It's just a really hard habit and way of thinking/being to change. :o

[jessmarimba]

I could have probably done all of those poses before but I won't attempt any of them now. But my perpetually beginner yoga class at the gym rarely gets into anything remotely close.

[shootingstar]

I wouldn't call myself competitive like that.

I just found myself giggling at myself..some colleagues around me joined in. :D

But hey, maybe crow position.
But maybe I'll be just happy crouching low on my haunches, bum off the ground.

[OakLeaf]

It's okay to laugh when you're attempting a posture that's difficult for you.

IMO, it's BETTER to laugh. :) And in my limited experience, the poses that bring out the most laughter are ... you guessed it ... arm balances and inversions.

I'm really competitive too in most situations, but it doesn't affect my yoga classes much at all. Maybe it's because the teacher usually warms us up with some kriyas. So by the time we attempt muscularly challenging standing poses, arm balances or inversions, we're already pretty deep, and we've already challenged ourselves physically with eyes closed.

[redrhodie]

I used to do Ashtanga, a self led practice, in a group setting. In this kind of practice, you go at your own pace, everyone learning the routine at their own pace. People at varying levels would all practice together, so inevitably, there would be someone in headstand or in handstand, in the middle of the room, which was completely crowded, each mat inches from the next. If you fell, you might take down 20 people. :D I never saw that happen.

[OakLeaf]

This thread and Catrin's thread about hip stabilizers and neutral spine really tied together for me - here's a crosslink to my post there (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showpost.php?p=553871&postcount=22) (only the second half is relevant here - but also my earlier post (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showpost.php?p=553717&postcount=10) about Pilates, "suck and tuck" and the flattened lumbar curve...)