Training vs. Overdoing

[bluebug32]

In the past two seasons, I've struggled with IT band pain and a poor bike fit that resulted in ending many rides with intense lower body pain. I've since bought a new bike, had a professional fitting, improved my pedal stroke, and rehabbed my legs through acupuncture and PT.

I didn't ride as much last summer. Now I'm excited to be feeling better and want to get back into training so I can tackle a century this summer and improve my speed/power to hang with the group on rides. I'm feeling a bit gun shy, however, recalling the pain that frequent riding caused. My acupuncturist called me a chronic overdoer (overstretching, too much riding, not enough recovery). I've been working on my pedal stroke this winter and working out with Robbie Ventura's cycling DVDs. However, my legs feel very sore 24 hours after a ride, and I hesitate to do another workout until they are feeling less sore and heavy. Sometimes this means 2 or 3 days of not riding (which makes it difficult to create a workout schedule). Is this normal for a fit 28-year-old?

Typically, how sore is it ok to be when I begin the next workout and should I ever fully recover to the point where my legs don't feel sore at all? How do I know when I'm overdoing it?

[KnottedYet]

During rehabbing from an injury, we usually tell folks the effected area shouldn't hurt for more than 30 minutes after stopping exercise.

After a whole body activity, we suggest they shouldn't feel much soreness beyond the next morning.

People who are terribly sore for days afterward have usually destroyed muscle tissue during their activity, and now their body is wasting effort and raw materials to repair the gratuitous damage instead of using it to build sleek powerful new muscle.

One step forward, five steps back.

Now, there are times when success is worth the damage (running a marathon is a good example).

But damaging yourself, destroying muscle tissue, creating microtears in precious tendons and ligaments every time you go out is really just a waste.

[JennK13]

I've been working on my pedal stroke this winter and working out with Robbie Ventura's cycling DVDs. However, my legs feel very sore 24 hours after a ride, and I hesitate to do another workout until they are feeling less sore and heavy. Sometimes this means 2 or 3 days of not riding (which makes it difficult to create a workout schedule). Is this normal for a fit 28-year-old?

How long have you been doing these works outs this winter? I was very active over the summer and fall, riding 5 days a week, but with work and the shorter days, from about mid October to Christmas I was only doing my Saturday group rides which average about 30 miles. We joined a new health club over the holidays, and I'm doing spin class about 3 times a week along with my group rides. I tell you this, while I'm fatigued immediately following one of the more difficult spin classes, I'm perfectly fine by the time I finish showering, and I'm not "sore" at all unless I tweak something - I'm 35 and "overweight".

I find it odd that you're having such pain and difficulty recovering - I would think it would get better the longer you do it or built up to it if you were a beginner. Does recovery take this long after other activities like jogging?

[limewave]

I agree with Jenn. I've been doing some really tough/intense 90 minute to 120 minute intervals and be completely wasted afterwards. But by morning I feel fully recovered. I alternate an intense interval workout with an easy workout b/w. I'm older than you, so you should be recovering more quickly!

Have you tried any recovery drinks or compression tights to help your legs recover? I don't use compression tights myself, but I do make sure to have good nutrition after a workout and to work the knots out of my legs with a rolling pin. You could also try eating foods to encourage muscle repair and reduce inflammation: Cruciferous veggies, cucumbers, etc.

[KnottedYet]

My acupuncturist called me a chronic overdoer (overstretching, too much riding, not enough recovery).

Over-doing is a choice. It is a choice you make.

If you feel you have no idea where to start; I strongly suggest you ask your doctor for a referral to a sports psychologist. They can help you re-learn how to interpret the signals you get from your body and re-learn how to self-impose reasonable limits. A sports psychologist can teach you how to create a training schedule that will allow you to function normally again and begin strengthening yourself instead of damaging yourself.

(ETA: and sports psychologists tend to be VERY cool, fun people!)

[Seajay]

If you are that sore 24hr later. You are working too hard for your current fitness and you will get injured or burned out.
You can't make up for lost time...you have to just reset from where you are and build at a normal rate.
The body will not be ignored. It will just yell louder until it breaks down.

As an example. I took a year off racing once. The following December, I limited myself to a 42x18 gear as the highest I would use and 12mph as a max speed (this was pre- HRM and wattage) on the flats and soft pedalling every climb for 8 weeks before I allowed ANY hard work. Had my best season that year with no injury issues.

[OakLeaf]

I'm good about this when I'm healthy, but really at sea when I'm rehabbing an injury (like my hands/wrists now). That 30-minute rule is helpful to keep me from overdoing it twice at the same stage of recovery, but I'm not sure how to keep from getting there in the first place. It also doesn't help that I often don't experience mild pain as pain at all, until after I'm completely healed and realize how much the pain was dragging me down.


... but 30 minutes after cutting up a chicken (except for making DH split the breast) - the most I've done in the kitchen since my crash - my hand doesn't hurt any more, so that's good to know. :)

[SLash]

Bluebug, I'm exactly twice your age and like the others have said, after a hard workout on the spinner (90 -120 minutes) I am wasted, but it never leaves me with soreness the next day.

Like the others, I think you are overtraining. Like you I'm concerned about over doing it, I have not trained so seriously in an off-season for years, and don't want to burn out by next spring or worse suffer an injury.

My last session was two hours of base building keeping my heart rate in zone 3 the entire time (not counting warm up/down). The next day, I did a very easy spin on the trainer for 60 minutes, never getting above top of zone 2. Today I will be doing Robbie Ventura's Force DVD (1st time). Tomorrow an easy spin.

It might be fine for you to do the hard workouts but you need to offset it with an easy workout the next day - active recovery instead of taking a day off the bike completely.

I'm wondering about your bike fit too, if maybe you might still need to tweak it a bit?

We got a new spinner in November and when I first started using it I had pain in my knee/quads that through lots of adjustments I've seemed to resolved.

Another issue might be you're pushing too hard a gear, that was true for me initially with the spinner.

You've received a lot of good advice from the others, just wanted to add my 2 cents. Good luck with your training. :)

[Seajay]

I'm wondering about your bike fit too, if maybe you might still need to tweak it a bit?



+10 !! Good call, Slash.

[tulip]

Rest is part of training. Take it as seriously as your "active" part of training.

[Catrin]

Rest is part of training. Take it as seriously as your "active" part of training.

What Tulip said, that got me into a lot of trouble last year :( On the other hand, I had no signs that I was doing too much - no soreness, no nothing - until I went too far. I really didn't have all that much fatigue, considering all that I was doing...

Also make certain that you are drinking enough - my new physical therapist thinks that not drinking enough made me more prone to injury. Thankfully he is a cyclist...

[redrhodie]

Bluebug, how long are you on the trainer for?

[KnottedYet]

Bluebug, how long are you on the trainer for?

One of the things a sports psychologist can help with is getting out of the "numbers rut." Not to worry about time, or repetitions, or pounds, or wattage, or heart-rate.

To instead listen to the body. Not to look at graphs, "averages", or charts.

Not to get caught up in "I should be going THIS fast. I should ride THIS long. I should meet THIS goal. I only did THAT much, I can't be tired yet, so I'll keep going no matter how I feel."

[Becky]

One of the things a sports psychologist can help with is getting out of the "numbers rut." Not to worry about time, or repetitions, or pounds, or wattage, or heart-rate.

To instead listen to the body. Not to look at graphs, "averages", or charts.

Not to get caught up in "I should be going THIS fast. I should ride THIS long. I should meet THIS goal. I only did THAT much, I can't be tired yet, so I'll keep going no matter how I feel."

Get out of my head, Knott :p

No, seriously, I could have written that. I'm a data junkie with a competitive streak, and it's a tough habit to break.

One thing that has been helpful has been yoga. In addition to all of the good core and flexibility work, there's a strong focus on being in the moment, in tune with your body, and "not hurting you" (to quote my fav instructor). My brain needs that....

Bug, it sure sounds like you're overdoing it. Only you can decide why, and what you can do to fix it. Take care of yourself, okay?

[bluebug32]

Thanks for the insights, everyone. You definitely brought up some spot-on suggestions. I think every time I start to feel better (recovered and loose), I go all out, instead of slowly progressing.

To answer your questions, I'm riding probably an average of 3 hours a week on the trainer, at an hour a session. The intensity is fairly high however, lots of work pushing big gears at low cadence, sprints, etc as I do the Train Right dvds. Other than that, I might sub. a day with XC skiing and I do upper body weights and core 1 or 2 times a week and occasionally yoga too.

Other intense exercises (like jogging) cause the same delayed muscle soreness. Sometimes I feel sore shortly after the activity, but more likely I'll develop pain after 24 hours.

My bike fit looks good and I check it periodically with my fitter.

I am going to try some compression tights to see if they help, but not to give me an excuse to overdo (I promise!).

It's definitely time to back off once again and ease into more difficult intensities in the future.

Any tips for helping my muscles with this deep healing in the meantime? I tend to stretch and use the foam roller regularly. One doctor said to try an elimination diet to see if gluten is an issue or if something else was causing extra inflammation. Any thoughts on this?

[redrhodie]

My tips for sore muscles--Ibuprofen, and a hot bath with Epsom salts.

[KnottedYet]

Any tips for helping my muscles with this deep healing in the meantime? I tend to stretch and use the foam roller regularly.

Stop.

STOP.

STOP.

STOP.

Please talk to your doctor and get some help.

[featuretile]

Why are you worrying about doing 'centuries' when you have so much pain after riding? It seems like you need to relax and do some stress less 20-25 mile rides and see at what length and speed you can go where you do not hurt afterward. Then you can slowly build up. I am also more than twice as old as you. When I ride in the summer, I can go farther and more frequently than now - when the rain interferes with riding. I don't get really sore, but my muscles feel fatigued. Than I take a couple of days off. Or swim or water aerobics - it's great for stretching. I know I will be able to do more in the Spring. Just take it easy!

[smilingcat]

Resting is integral part of training!! Your body need to repair the micro-tear and strengthen your muscle. If you don't allow for healing time, YOU WILL GET HURT BIG TIME!!

+1 with what everyone else says.

I know its not easy when you are so excited about the century. It's a long ways away and plenty of time to train moderately to reach your goal.

Winter time is used for recovery and to build up your base. THIS IS NOT A TIME TO BE BUILDING SPEED OR POWER. THIS IS THE TIME TO BUILD YOUR BASE!! The base will give you the necessary body for building speed, and power for the summer.

Train right, Train smart.

Look at the big picture and work on your base for now.

Wish you lots of fun at your century.

[ridebikeme]

Bluebug, I would serioulsy listen to some of the great imput that many have left you here on TE.

You mention that you did lots of rehab, and now are doing the Robbie Ventura DVD series. My question for you is this; do you have any sort of base mileage or time on the bike before starting this training regimen? I know that you mention being fit, but as you are well aware, being fit quite often is specific to our activity. Now I realize that fitness does indeed carry over to lots of activities, but it does not carry over to a bike and the type of training that you are doing with the DVD's.

I realize that many people might disagree me with over having a base period, but I truly think it is crucial to the type of training/riding that you want to do. Although you are fit, it does sound as though you need more base mileage/time on the bike before starting to do workouts that you are currently doing. Not only will your body have the ability to respond/recover better; it might help you get in the training that you want. And lastly, remember as many have said here...recovery! You have to allow your body to recover if you want to ride faster/further.

Good luck with everything, and keep us posted !:)



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