Heartrate concerns. Should I be worried?

[MCAP]

I've never been very comfortable running. I have always gotten shin splints in the past and just stopped.

Now, although still heavier than I'd like, I'm in the best shape fitness wise probably in my whole life. I started cycling this summer and my aerobic fitness has improved 10 fold. I've been swimming too and my lung capacity is so much better.

I'm training lightly for triathlons next year with the goal of a half ironman in 2013. I've been running intervals of 1 minute running and 2 minutes walking once a week for a few months. This past week I did a full ironman challenge at my gym and ran/walked 26.2 miles over 7 days.

I noticed a couple of things that have me somewhat concerned. I feel like I'm in good enough shape now that I should be able to run farther/ longer between walks. Yesterday I walked a mile at 3.5 mph then ran 1 minute at 7.0 mph alternating 2 min walk at 3.5. In one minute running my heart rate got up above 180 and it was almost like I could feel the blood draining out of my body. Once I started walking I could recover rather quickly.

Why is my heartrate going so high when I run? It doesn't get near that high when I bike or swim unless I'm sprinting all out.

I feel like I can't go any longer than two minutes running or I'll risk passing out. I feel very weak after 2 minutes. I feel like it should be improving, but it's not.

If I run slower (5.5-6.5 mph) my knees and shins hurt. 6.5-7.0 allows me to get a full swinging stride with less pounding and I haven't had a much trouble with my shins hurting this go around.

What can I do to improve? I want to be able to run longer, but I just don't know what to think about this heart rate/weakness feeling situation.

Any thoughts?

[jessmarimba]

I would say that you likely do need to figure out how to slow down for your running intervals. It sounds like you've taught yourself what your body is considering a sprint, but most people can't extend their sprint pace beyond a certain length of time without going anaerobic. You may be able to adjust your gait so that your knees and shins aren't hurting - or you might need to get a pair of shoes that is better suited for your feet and your running style. Were you fitted for the shoes that you're wearing in a running store?

[KnottedYet]

I strongly (jumping up and down shrieking and pulling my hair out) suggest you check in with a sports medicine physician.

Feeling like you are going to pass out after 1 minute of running at 7 mph is probably something it is rather important to pay attention to.

Feeling like you are going to pass out during ANY activity is something to which one MUST pay attention. :eek:

[MCAP]

Yes, my running shoes were purchased at a running store after a professional gait analysis.

7.0 is only a little faster than a ten minute mile- certainly not a sprint. I feel very comfortable at this speed but feel like my body may just crumple out from underneath me after about a minute. My legs feel fine, my lungs feel fine, my head feels fine, but my heart races and my body gets weak.

I'm going to try to find a doctor to see about this. I'm very perplexed that it only happens running and not cycling or swimming. Perhaps it has something to do with running being weight bearing.

[colby]

Yes, my running shoes were purchased at a running store after a professional gait analysis.

7.0 is only a little faster than a ten minute mile- certainly not a sprint. I feel very comfortable at this speed but feel like my body may just crumple out from underneath me after about a minute. My legs feel fine, my lungs feel fine, my head feels fine, but my heart races and my body gets weak.

I'm going to try to find a doctor to see about this. I'm very perplexed that it only happens running and not cycling or swimming. Perhaps it has something to do with running being weight bearing.

7mph is an 8:30-ish min mi. An 8:30 min mi is significantly faster than a 10 min mile :) The likely case, as Jess suggests, is that that is closer to your interval pace than your regular "forever" running pace. What you describe sounds like an interval to me (well, a little beyond - Knot's right that feeling like you're going to pass out is pushing it) - it's hard work for a short period of time. You'll probably get better at them the more you do them, but you will probably not be able to run that speed for sustained periods for a while. If you want to run longer, you will probably have to run slower until your ability to run at those speeds increases. The intervals WILL help with that, so if you do introduce days with more extended slower running periods, you should keep up some faster intervals on other days, too (but maybe not to the point where you're lightheaded ;)).

I can definitely understand that your stride (and everything, really) is more comfortable at the faster pace. It does force you to stretch and land your feet differently and I also find this difficult to apply at lower speeds. I'm not sure there's a secret to that other than to improve your form - it might do your faster running speeds good to improve at slower speeds.

[OakLeaf]

In addition to what everyone else has said:

* "improving your form" isn't so easy to do without guidance. I'm a huge fan of Chi Running - which has DEFINITELY made it possible for me to run slowly without pounding myself to death. From a musculoskeletal standpoint, I'm as comfortable now at a 12:30 long run training pace :o as I am at an 8:05 5K pace or doing sprint intervals. That did NOT use to be the case. I don't really know much about other methods, but you might check out some of the free materials on the Chi Running (http://www.chirunning.com/shop/home.php) website, pick up the DVD or book, and/or find an instructor or workshop near you.

* Your maximum heart rate for running will always be higher by 5-10 bpm than your MHR for cycling, and about the same gap to swimming. Sources I've read have speculated that this has to do with weight-bearing, cooling, or a combination of those.

* Cardio fitness only translates between sports to a certain extent. You still have to be feeding blood to unaccustomed muscles.

* Are you breathing efficiently when you run? It's definitely different than cycling breathing, and I would think that if you're not getting enough air, that might cause the symptoms you're describing.

Good luck - hope you find that it's nothing to worry about and that you get it sorted soon!

[Crankin]

I had the exact same experience when I was running. It took me ages to build up to a steady 6.0 pace and not feel like I was going to die. In fact, I could cruise at 5.8 but as soon as I went over that, I was done. I knew that my HR for running was about 10 bpm higher than for cycling from a short foray into running around the time my riding started getting more serious. And my HR is generally faster than it should be for my age when I push it, yet, I recover OK. The one thing that cycling helped me with is that I never found it too difficult to run up steep hills. Sure, I'd be going very slowly, but I was running, when others were walking. A speed of 7.0 is *fast* for a beginner and definitely qualifies as a sprint interval. I agree with Oak; the breathing is totally different.

[emily_in_nc]

I definitely agree that a 7.0 speed is very fast for a beginner! I've been running casually for ~2 years now (mostly on the treadmill, occasionally outside), and my average speed is still around 5.5-5.7mph! I do occasionally push it up to 6 or 6.2 for a short bit, but I can't even fathom being able to run at 7.0 for any length of time without feeling like I am about to die, and I can cycle for a long time without difficulty. I know many women run much faster than my speeds, but you are a beginner, so sloooooooooooooow down! :rolleyes:

I agree with the suggestion of Chi Running -- I read the book when I started running and found that it helped my form and comfort while running a great deal.

[Susan]

Your text is something I could have written one year ago. While I was able to spin or swim extended periods of time, I was never able to run more than a short sprint without going beyond my limits. For some time I was quite sure that I simply COULD NOT run and would never learn to do so just like others couldn't swim.
While my husband was going for a run, I was running the distance between two street lamps and then walking for some minutes and repeat.

Because I felt stupid walking around in my running clothes, I started Nordic Walking. Nordic Walking gets the heart rate up a little higher than just walking AND made running slow and relaxed easier for me (I guess because there is less weight on the leg muscles). With the walking sticks I ran the short distances between 2 street lamps, then slowly upped the distance. I read quite a lot about correct form, tried to up my cadence (up the cadence while slowing down overall!) and correct my posture. It took me about half a year to run the whole distance (about 5 km, my husband was able to run this far from day 1).

After some time, I stopped using the Nordic Walking sticks and didn't need them anymore (I still use them sometimes for mountain runs). It has been one year since I started running and I am now able to run for about 10km.

I think some of us just need a little extra time because they aren't really talented runners. But it pays of, it will be a lot of fun in the end, don't give up!

[Bike Chick]

I think some of us just need a little extra time because they aren't really talented runners. But it pays of, it will be a lot of fun in the end, don't give up!

I agree completely, Susan. When I started running, I expected it to come easy since I had been cycling for several years and thought I was in good shape. I also thought that I would progress as quickly as I did on the bike. Not so! It's a completely different exercise. I've been running consistently for about a year now and I'm still slow and take walk breaks occasionally. I have seen a huge improvement since I started but the progress has been slow. Some of us just weren't born runners but we do it anyway!

MCAP, good for you doing the Ironman Challenge. That sounds fun. My advice would be to be patient (after you get the ok from your doctor), just slow down and take your time. It will come.

[OakLeaf]

Another thing is that the treadmill by definition throws your form off. How much running are you doing outside, or on an indoor track?

[MCAP]

I had been running exclusively on a track outside prior to the ironman challenge. I ran once a week and have been doing so since the beginning of August.

In college I ran around 3 miles almost every day. I ran very slow and it HURT my legs so bad. I just drugged myself up with pain killers and kept going. I don't want to do that to myself again.

I'm not running at 7.0 just because that's a number that I chose. I played around with the speed until it felt like I felt on the track outside. During the Ironman challenge I ran probably 70% of the marathon on the treadmill and the other 30% on the indoor track.

I'm going to go ahead and get another full gait analysis and figure out if something has changed and I need a different shoe.

Normally when I run intervals I start off with a 5-10 minute walk warm up. The first interval is pretty slow because my knees and shins always hurt for the first two intervals until my legs warm up. After that I run at a pace that is comfortable for my legs. I really don't feel like I'm going fast, but I will try to slow it down.

Perhaps it is some problem with my form that makes it super uncomfortable to run slower. I feel like unless I am using a full swinging stride from the hip, my lower leg tenses up and my toe is flexed up then the shin muscle feels like it starts to tear. I've tried running slower with a shorter stride at a higher cadence and I can't seem to do that and keep my foot relaxed.

I'm still concerned about my heart rate. I went on a cold outdoor bike ride yesterday and really worked hard up some big hills. My heartrate got up pretty high, but I didn't get the weakness feeling in my body like I do running.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll check out chirunning and see what that is all about.

[jessmarimba]

Definitely look at shortening your stride - if your foot is landing ahead of you it actually uses more energy and has a higher impact on your body, as you are essentially "braking" and then re-starting your motion.

When I first started running I was going way too fast to build up any distance - my first race was an 8K that I ran at an 8:20 pace (probably only endured for 5 miles because it was 20 degrees outside). Now (meaning before I hurt my back) I run a 10K at essentially a 9-minute pace and a marathon at around 10:15/mile.

[7rider]

You've gotten a lot of good advice here -- and advice that I am soaking in like a sponge - because I really think I could have written your post!

I am a cyclist who recently took up running (okay, okay..."JOGGING" :rolleyes:). I can ride my bike for 100 miles and feel better at the end of it than after a 3 mile jog around my neighborhood. Jogging/running is a brutal sport, I'm discovering. Everyone told me..."Oh, you're in such good shape from all that cycling you do, running will be a breeze!" But, as I'm finding out as many here have - that it's a different animal entirely. I suffer. I am not a runner. Okay...I knew that, I just refuse to believe it. I just keep trying and maybe someday, I'll have that Zen moment that runners talk about. :)

[MCAP]

I purchased the book Chi Running and started reading it last night. I'm going to try and adjust my form to make myself more efficient and see if I can slow down without pain.

I think I may go ahead and get checked out by a doctor anyway. My mom has a heart problem that essentially causes her heart to misfire a bit (instead of going Ka Chunk, Ka Chunk, Ka Chunk, it just goes Ka, Ka, Ka, Ka) and her heart monitor reads her heart really fast. Blood is pumping, but not well. I wouldn't be surprised if I have something similar. It would be good to know regardless.

[PamNY]

I'd love to know how the chi running goes.

Chi running was recommended by several people here, and I just got the book (I could have gone to a workshop but it sold out while I was dithering around about spending the $$).

I'm not a runner (yet) but the book is inspiring and makes sense.

[GLC1968]

I have never been a runner and when I started trying to teach myself (again) with the Chi Running book a year ago, I was 45 lbs overweight and had constant foot and shin pain.

Now I am comfortable running (at a slow pace) for 4-5 miles at a time every other day. I am still limited by feet and leg pain. I have yet come to the point where my cardio vascular fitness is forcing me to stop a run. Again, I am training, not racing...so I run a slow, comfortable, aerobic pace that I feel like I could run all day.

Based on my experience going from a cyclist to a runner, first thing I would suggest is to slow down. I know it's hard but you need to. I don't know how tall you are, but for short legged people like me, 7.0 mph on a treadmill is very close to a sprint! In the Chi running book, they will talk about consciously relaxing your leg from the knee down...so hopefully that will help with the pain. As I mentioned, I still have lower leg pain when I'm running, but it comes on further and further into the run each time (this is after a year of slow build, by the way). You want to be running at a pace where you feel like you can go longer than you need to - and then add distance (or time running vs walking). I would save challenging intervals until you get some base running under your belt. It'll be MUCH easier on your legs that way. Now I get pain at about 4 miles into a run. When I started, the pain happened almost right away. It gets better, but you need to slow down so that you can build the mileage that allows it to get better.

[emily_in_nc]

Some great advice here...but I also agree with your checking with your doctor, especially in light of your mom's heart condition. Glad you are going to do that just in case anything is amiss. Keep us posted!