Black????really????

[kermit]

I rode today in my usual, very popular but busy area in our town. I would say that three out of five cyclists were wearing predominantly black gear. I have had so many close calls with cars and even a school bus, I am all about "please see me" clothing. Is this happening any where else?

[Roadtrip]

Yup. Just last night we were out about a few hour after sunset and I passed a bicyclist without lights and wearing dark colored clothing. I didn't see him until I was about 50' from him, and while he was safely on the shoulder of the road, I was stunned someone would be riding with no lights in near pitch darkness.

Shannon

[OakLeaf]

One of my riding buddies has "Ace of Spades" kit.

He knows what I wear, I don't have to preach verbally.



ETA - I guess that design has been discontinued, but a large plurality of the designs that are on Primal's website now are black. Including their "Dia de los Muertos" kit, for the fans of sick jokes. :(


Edit again: In daylight, black is actually more visible than light blue, light green or most browns, which blend right into sky and vegetation.

[bmccasland]

In a hot climate I wouldn't want to wear black during the day. Nothing quite like absorbing heat.

For low sun ray times, maybe the riders should don a lovely high vis vest? Probalby not cool enough. :rolleyes:

[Grits]

A few of the people I ride with sometimes wear non-cycling workout wear to ride in, and it sometimes is black or some other dark color. Although, just because it is cycling specific doesn't necessarily mean it is a very visible color. I've noticed that a lot of the blue jerseys just fade into the highway.

When I"m looking at the riders either ahead or behind me at a distance, you can really see a huge difference in visibility between the riders in high vis colors vs the ones in dark colors. Yellow shows up for miles. I am so paranoid about being seen that I wouldn't even enjoy a ride if I wasn't wearing nice bright colors with my blinkie light flashing! My next purchase is going to be a yellow vest.

[kimikaw]

Glad you asked...been meaning to post somewhere about a women I saw last week. A bike commuter riding at 5:30pm through the most trafficy part of my commute (state street in downtown Wauwatosa for any locals) - totally dark and at a time of day cars do a lot of lane jockeying to get past each other.

She had on a long black coat, black pants, black boots (quite stylish street clothes), black backpack. NO LIGHTS, only reflectors were on her pedals. And she was wearing earphones and a iPod.

If I had been on my bike, I would have stopped her to explain not only was she breaking the law (WI requires lights), but putting her life in jeopardy. Sure she gets points for commuting - when I've been afraid to since the time change and darkness - but loses them all for stupidity. Haven't been able to get her out of my head since.

[tangentgirl]

Maybe grey with yellow dotted lines is the way to go.

I've seen a lot of black cycling tops lately and thought the same thing. I was at a tri store recently, would see something with a really cute bright print on the front, just to turn it around and see an all-black back.


In daylight, black is actually more visible than light blue, light green or most browns, which blend right into sky and vegetation.

I'm trying to picture this, I am. Not feelin' it, but am open to hearing more.

[Cataboo]

Unfortunately,my favorite cycling jerseys and jackets are black. It has to do with them being merino wool & they were the color that was on sale, 'cause ordinarily that's not a color that I buy a lot of. I've got reflective stickers on my backpack, which I always wear when cycling, plenty of lights and I got a super duper light up relfective vest that my little brother bought me.

I'm rarely out at night though, and don't cycle in an area that's very busy.

[OakLeaf]

I'm trying to picture this, I am. Not feelin' it, but am open to hearing more.

No explanation required, just pay attention next time you're a few hundred yards behind someone dressed in "road camouflage." Black doesn't "pop," but at least it contrasts with the background.

I still wear my bright red winter stuff, but I have a whole drawer full of non-hi-viz jerseys that I should just haul out and give away here, except that it would feel like giving away a crashed helmet or something. If I don't feel safe wearing it, I don't feel good about giving it to someone else to wear. :(

[jessmarimba]

Oak, the non hi-vis stuff works fine for mtb! I only really care about being super-bright on trails if its hunting season. Which out here usually means everything is too snowy to ride anyway.

A lot of my winter running gear is black, so I used to go way overboard with blinkies and reflective tape when I ran roads.

[loopybunny]

Are there any statistics that say wearing hi-vis gear in normal daylight conditions is actually any safer than any other color providing the rider is riding in a safe manner?

My primary jersey is light blue and I've never had any issues wearing it versus wearing another one that is bright yellow and orange. I usually only ever worry about being seen when I'm riding in low light conditions, like riding to an event kind of early in the morning since I don't have any lights or reflectors on my bike.

Most of the people I see are wearing the primarily black kit of the local racing team.

[emily_in_nc]

I see a lot of bike commuters near where I work wearing black or dark blue on the ride home, especially now that it's jacket weather. Often they have a black backpack and tights too. They are VERY hard to see, and I would never dress like that anywhere except on a mtb trail.

For road rides, I wear yellow, pink, red, or orange jerseys. I do have a couple of blue ones I'll wear occasionally, but only if riding with my DH and he's wearing yellow. I also have a bright red Arkel Tailrider on my Bike Friday, which makes me stand out more, I think. You can see some of my typically bright garb in my avatar!

Just don't get the black thing -- I expect a lot of riders just don't give visibility a lot of thought, but to me it's always a big concern.

[7rider]

Are there any statistics that say wearing hi-vis gear in normal daylight conditions is actually any safer than any other color providing the rider is riding in a safe manner?
.

No clothing - no matter what color - will make you "safe" on the road. Only properly designed facilities, education, skill, and perhaps a little luck will do that.

That said, many equate "being seen" with safety. That is a tenuous link, but it's out there. Still, given how the plea "But officer, I didn't see the cyclist/pedestrian" seems to be a common excuse that often shifts the blame to the injured, sometimes, perhaps, it's wise to not give them the opportunity to say they didn't see you. With that in mind, I tend to commute, lit up like High Mass on Sunday, but I don't pretend to think that makes me "safe."

[Owlie]

I see a lot of commuters here who ride in street clothes--especially dark blue, brown, or black jackets--with no lights or one blinky. We've got street lights, but a lot of trees still have their leaves, so it's really hard to see cyclists here unless they're lit up like Christmas trees. If I, as a pedestrian, have trouble picking you out, you've got a problem. (And yes, I've had to look twice--"Wait, was that a cyclist?")

For road riding, I've got my obnoxious Union Jack jersey, orange/yellow, yellow and black, sky blue/white, and this. (http://www.amazon.com/Primal-Womens-Sleeve-Cycling-Jersey/dp/B002UZPC6K) I care a little less about what I wear on the bike trails back home, so that's where my one mostly-black jersey gets worn. My jacket is black too (with a big reflective design all over), but it's gotten most of its wear on the bike trail, thus far. I don't go out in low light conditions.

[zoom-zoom]

That said, many equate "being seen" with safety. That is a tenuous link, but it's out there. Still, given how the plea "But officer, I didn't see the cyclist/pedestrian" seems to be a common excuse that often shifts the blame to the injured, sometimes, perhaps, it's wise to not give them the opportunity to say they didn't see you. With that in mind, I tend to commute, lit up like High Mass on Sunday, but I don't pretend to think that makes me "safe."

Exactly. I wear a lot of very garish clothes and gravitate towards flashy-colored bikes and contrasting bar tape and cable housings if I have a choice, even though matte black seems to be trendy, right now. Even if it doesn't make a driver "see" me, at least if they try to pull that "I didn't see her" crap it will make it obvious that they weren't driving attentively.

[ridebikeme]

I have been seeing this unfortunately for quite some time. I've actually started having long discussions about this with some of the clothing companies that I carry...while they listen most have tended to do NOTHING! When you have a minute, look at your selections of clothing... especially cold weather clothing. While we all know that shorts/tights are black, why is is that most(not all) jackets/vests are black? Think about this when you buy yor next piece, and voice your opinion to LBS/mail order.

Thanks for bringing this up, hopefully more people will pay attention to what they are wearing. I like so many of you, always wear bright clothing, and can only hope that someone is paying attention while they're driving.:rolleyes:

[OakLeaf]

What 7rider said.

I've said it many times before here, but it bears reiterating. I wear hi-viz for two reasons.

First is for the people who ARE paying attention. If you've driven an automobile and come up on bicyclists, you know that you will see the ones in hi-viz about a half mile ahead, where you may not be able to see the ones wearing colors that blend in until you're a couple of hundred yards behind them, and it may not register that they're actually human road users until you're much closer. That just isn't enough time to plan at 65 mph, and it's barely enough time to brake or swerve. My being visible is courteous to good drivers, allows them to drive more smoothly and less stressfully, and allows traffic to flow better.

Second is why I call the gear "Exhibit A," as 7rider said. If a jury has to wear sunglasses to see what's left of my jersey, there's more hope that the automobilist won't be able to get away with "I didn't see her."

Of course I'm responsible for my own safety, always, on foot, on bici, on moto (and in a car as well). But it doesn't make sense to me, to deprive automobile drivers of the ability to see me and drive safely around me.


(It's a whole 'nother story on the moto where I have the opportunity to get out of trouble by twisting the throttle, as well as the opportunity to stay out of trouble. But the distinction between bici safety and moto safety, and target fixation vs. safe driving, is for another thread...)


Also, I'm sure it's different for urban riders, where speeds are so much slower, and things like intersections and parking lots force automobilists to expand their field of vision slightly. I don't think I'd worry much about visibility if I were riding in the daytime in urban areas.


Edit one more time ... FHWA and OSHA require hi-viz apparel for workers in highway rights-of-way. That's good enough for me.

[Crankin]

I love black and dress in black or grey almost all of the time, in my "regular" clothes." That said, I only have one piece of black cycling wear (on the top). It's a winter piece, long sleeved, thermal jersey that zips up. It has red and white reflective accents on it. I've only worn it in the day time, in bright sun a couple of times. Most of the time, it's been worn under my screaming yellow jacket. My other jerseys are all kinds of colors.
I too, have noticed many commuters with no lights, or only a horrible reflector at dusk. Most of them are young people or older people, "invisible" cyclists, etc. I see them on my way home from the city I am working in for my internship, which has a large immigrant population. No helmets, either. Going the wrong way. But, I also see this in Cambridge, which has a huge cycling population, commuters, who zip through very heavy traffic, in street clothes, with no lights. Yes, it is brightly lit on the main streets, but I am sure they go into residential areas to get home. Around where I live, most of the commuters have lights, but they could have more/better ones.
When I ride in the dark, I have a bright headlight, a very bright rear blinkie and a blinking ankle band on both legs, as well as a reflective vest. One day, when I was coming home from my before work ride, DH was going to get bagels and saw me, in a pretty dark corner of my neighborhood, He said I was extremely visible, so I guess it works.

[Thorn]

(state street in downtown Wauwatosa for any locals) .

Weekly summer-time destination for Tosa Farmer's Market (thank goodness for the Winter Farmer's market or I'd be going into Greens-withdrawl)

But I see your point -- riding that section of State Street is wicked during daylight hours. I can't imagine even thinking about it during the dark without a Christmas tree-ful of lights.

But, to the thread. Last year I picked up a pair of Hi-Viz yellow cycling jackets for DH and myself on Steep and Cheap (or one of its affiliates). Pair that with our yellow helmet covers and blinkies and we stand out. So much so as to take polite kidding from cyclists and shop keepers when we're wearing them. But, as Oakleaf said--rather the jury need sunglasses than a driver claim they couldn't see me.

[shootingstar]

Most of my cycling bottoms are black or dark. But tops, especially jackets are hi-vis. Jerseys tend to be light coloured or bright coloured..since I can wear bright colours well against my face.

I've gotten onto elevators at various workplaces, where there were car-driving employees in same elevator, who expressed their appreciation for hi-viz apparel by cyclists.

Doesn't that say enough? Oak's comment on hi-viz wear as a OSHA requirement (by highway workers, construction workers on the road, etc.) says alot here.

I suppose for some non-cycling apparel cyclists, maybe wearing black while cycling on a fixie is a form of "cool"/hip.

Or wearing black means to hide wet dirt splash-up.

But I value my life over fashion, while on bike.

[sarahkonamojo]

I agree with Ridebikeme, the choices aren't there, at least where I shop. I would rather dress like a Christmas tree than be hit by an auto.

I think cycling short/tights should have high viz on the rear/upper thighs.

[tulip]

I read somewhere a while back that hi-viz yellow is better to wear in urban areas because it stands out from all the other visual noise. The same article said that hi-viz orange is best to wear in rural areas. I would argue with the second point on a brilliant fall day in Vermont, however, when the leaves are as bright orange as the clothing.

Please do not ask me to come up with a source. I read it somewhere, a while back.

I figure the highway construction industry has done all the studies on visibility, so I get my hi-viz stuff at a highway safety supplier (alertshirt.com; there are other, too). Not cycling specific, but the products are compliant with the major standards. When I commuted by bike, I wore their simple t-shirts. You could sew your own pockets on the back if you are handy with a needle and thread. The prices are very reasonable, too.

[limewave]

tulip, the other day I saw someone wearing a high-vis yellow jersey and they completely blended in with the fall background. I happened to be looking for cyclists and runners as that is a popular area for cycling, so I saw them. But someone who isn't conscious of that never would have seen her :eek:

[pll]

I have to say I have noticed more drivers are courteous when I'm wearing a high visibility jersey. I had only a 'highlighter green' short sleeve jersey, and this fall I splurged and bought two fluorescent yellow jerseys, short sleeve and long sleeve. The latter makes me want to got out in the cold and I cannot wait for the spring to use the short sleeve one. It's hard to find high visibility stuff for women in the local bike shops -- I always look for it. It's black, down to the the under layers (why???).

[limewave]

DH was very frustrated after the last race he did because EVERYONE was wearing black with white/red accents. It made it impossible to mark people. It's the new trend I guess.

I've noticed that as cycling has gotten more popular over the last 10 years that certain safety precautions have gone out the window.

Before I did my first group ride, I was drilled about how to properly ride in a group: keeping a cadence (not yo-yoing), learning hand signals, how to draft, how to rotate w/o surging--it was a big deal. The jerseys/kits were wild colors, very visible.

Now, people wear iPods with headphones on group rides :eek: Jersey's are more fashionable, but not visible-friendly. The last few group rides I've done I've feared for my life b/c most everyone in the group didn't know basic safety precautions.

[PamNY]

I noticed that hi-viz bikers were hard to see when driving in Shenandoah on an autumn day. Not sure what would work in that situation, though.

NYC is full of black-clad, unlighted bikers. I could easily have hit one last night as I passed a runner, and I am careful. I literally couldn't see him with headlights from highway traffic in my eyes.

Hi-viz definitely works in the city. Pll, I agree with you that drivers are more courteous. In addition, I've had various people -- cops, passers-by, etc. -- randomly compliment me on my blazing glory.

[GLC1968]

Personally, I think cycling attire should be chosen based on riding location and conditions as much as possible. There are times when a black jersey will be more visible than a white one. When I used to ride in NC - there were a couple of winter rides we did where the roads were clear, but the fields had snow on them and the sun was super bright. A white clad rider would have totally disappeared and black would have offered more contrast.

On the other hand, wearing black at night is just asking for trouble.

I would opt to not wear orange when commuting home into the sunset (I kept my turquoise for those rides) and I don't wear my lime green jersey when riding in the country in the spring as it's virtually the same color as the fields/trees as they start to bloom.

That said, I actually noticed yesterday in our typical winter gloom that NOTHING stood out on cyclists (I was in a car) as well as hi-vis yellow. It made itself glaringly apparent in every single case (daylight conditions).

[Lesley_x]

My winter cycling clothes are black.

But then I only cycle in broad daylight and with lights sooo....

[lph]

In summer I wear brightly coloured tops, but for winter use I have a black softshell jacket and a grey one. Nothing to do with fashion, but light colours would all turn grey quite fast with road splash anyway, and washing jackets often isn't good for the water repellency. Mainly it's because winter riding here = riding in the dark, and in the dark there's no difference between black, red, fuschia or turquoise. Lights and reflective stripes are the way to go, and I'm decked out like a Christmas tree. In daylight bright colours are easier to see, but then again - in a busy city environment there's colour everywhere, so even then it's the flashing lights that announce to everyone "cyclist ahead!".

[kermit]

I have to add that the majority of the folks wearing black, are triathletes, usually in one or two piece kits. These are also the folks out doing longer rides for the upcoming IM and races, my good friend included. I have told her over and over but she is attached to her black tri tanks. It is a VERY popular cycling area but also with a lot of traffic. To each his own I guess...

[Owlie]

Funny you should mention that, GLC. I've got a green jersey that I won't wear on the road because the area has tons of trees. DBF thinks it's perfectly visible. It might be in AZ, because there's not a lot of bright green around. (Never mind that it's not really visible from a distance...)
There are a lot of the bright yellow maples around here. You probably would have a hard time picking out even high-vis yellow against that backdrop.

I agree that the choices often aren't there. I e-mailed the company who made my jacket, suggesting that they should make women's jackets in brighter colors. (They have three options, two of which are black with reflective designs.) They agreed, but they said they were limited by what their supplier gave them. :rolleyes: Next jacket I buy will be yellow or orange...

[kimikaw]

Great discussion here! Getting me thinking about all my bike clothes - not just the yellow hi-viz jacket I wear when commuting. My first bike jersey was black - and I did start to think maybe it wasn't bright enough for the road (but great for the trail).

For commuting, like others mention, lit up like a Christmas tree, front blinkie, two or 3 rear blinkies, lightweight reflector stickers on every spoke. But still know I must continually be aware of cars, consistent in my riding, and always a bit defensive.

[tamagojo]

http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/reflective-strips-help-cyclists-shine-like-a-beacon-at-night-20101016-16odw.html

This is an article that I read a couple of weeks ago. It suggests that after dark the most visible thing is reflective strips on moving body parts (eg ankles). It said that fluoresent gear is only useful in daylight hours. I thought it interesting

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I've gotten onto elevators at various workplaces, where there were car-driving employees in same elevator, who expressed their appreciation for hi-viz apparel by cyclists.
Doesn't that say enough? Oak's comment on hi-viz wear as a OSHA requirement (by highway workers, construction workers on the road, etc.) says alot here.

Yep. I've had several occasions where drivers have made comments to me about how great it was that they could see my hi-vis clothes a half mile away as they approached down the road. That's good enough for me. :)

[jessmarimba]

The whole road got slowed down on the way home b/c of a cyclist in black on the shoulder. It was completely dark, they had just a single reflector in the back and a faintly blinking front light. The biggest problem is that a bike path runs right beside this road, and yet they were on a 4-6 lane rush-hour filled main road instead. Scary!!