Hitting a wall on hills.

[Owlie]

I don't know if it's the "wrong" gear, mental, nutritional or I'm just out of shape. I'll be powering up the one hill (not very steep, about .4 mi) at a good pace (14-16mph), in a relatively low gear (middle chainring, larger cogs), and then....bam, I drop to like 9mph, and it's all I can do to make it up the remainder of the hill to the stop sign.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[indysteel]

It sounds like you're hitting the hill too aggressively and then running out of steam and gears. First off, stop looking at your speed for the time being. Second, drop into your smallest chain ring as you approach the hill and use a cog that allows you to spin comfortably. Don't spin wildly, but also don't attack the hill. Maintain a steady and comfortable cadence as you begin the climb (say, 75-80 rpm). Breathe. As the pitch goes up, switch to easier gears as necessay. Don't look at your bike computer. The point of this exercise is not to speed up the hill; it's to get to the top without blowing up.

[OakLeaf]

I'm pretty sure your hills are as steep as mine, and I would be pretty dang proud of myself if I could get up some of them at 9 mph.

What Indysteel said.

[indysteel]

I'm pretty sure your hills are as steep as mine, and I would be pretty dang proud of myself if I could get up some of them at 9 mph.

What Indysteel said.

I agree; 9 mph up a steep hill is nothing to sneeze at. I make a practice of not looking at my speed on climbs. I would rather gauge my climbing by how my legs and lungs are doing. For me, it's all about maintaining a steady and controlled pace. Sometimes, I'm just happy to crest a hill without throwing up!

[redrhodie]

You know how my signature says "Slacker on wheels"? That comes from this article: http://www.living-room.org/slackers.htm which totally changed the way I climb. I feel so much better on hills now, that now I seek out steep ones so I can try to get up without getting out of breath. It's a great technique, even if it was written somewhat tongue in cheek.

[Crankin]

Yep, I have found I can get up anything (well, once or twice I gave up, more mental than anything else and a 20% grade) if I just put it in the granny at the beginning and turn the pedals over. Who cares how fast you are going? This got me through the 17K climb in Spain last summer and the cat 2 and 3 climbs the next day. Gear down at the beginning of the hill, middle cogs. You can always go up or down on the back from there. I find 9-11 mph is a "good" speed for the shorter climbs around here, but there are many times I decide to keep it at 5-8 mph, depending on how much more riding i have left or how much I want to save my legs.

[lph]

You know how my signature says "Slacker on wheels"? That comes from this article: http://www.living-room.org/slackers.htm which totally changed the way I climb. I feel so much better on hills now, that now I seek out steep ones so I can try to get up without getting out of breath. It's a great technique, even if it was written somewhat tongue in cheek.

heheh - that's a great article! I try to tell my non-bike-commuting colleagues that even if I can dash to work, bouncing around and racing everybody, I also can just sit back and relax and pedal slowly the days I feel sick or slow - and I still get there just fine. Don't even lose much time, actually.

[Biciclista]

9 mph on a hill? ? ? and you're complaining? Now listen here young lady;
you got YOUR BIKE UP that hill!! I know the cars that passed you did not have to slow down, but they are burning fossil fuels to do it! without that gasoline, they wouldn't make it up the hill either. And YOU did it with your two little legs and a little bit of oxygen..

On my commute, I have a hill I have to go up. I've done this commute HUNDREDS of times, over 100 times this year alone. And i probably got up that hill at 9mph twice. (the rest of the time I was slower) that's just the way it is..

you're doing fine.

[ny biker]

I'm happy if I can keep it above 4 mph on hills. Sometimes joggers pass me. It makes me laugh.

[tulip]

On the downhill before your uphill, PEDAL! Put it in the big ring and pedal. Do not coast down the hills. It's a waste.

As you approach the uphill, keep pedaling. Change gears as needed, a few cogs, then into the smaller chainring, and then more cogs if needed. You can either stand up to get over the top or simply pedal at a comfortable cadence. That depends on you and your hill.

Once over the hill, do not coast. Put it in the big ring and get ready for the next one. This way, you will be able to sling yourself halfway up the hill by pedaling down the previous hill.

[indysteel]

On the downhill before your uphill, PEDAL! Put it in the big ring and pedal. Do not coast down the hills. It's a waste.

As you approach the uphill, keep pedaling. Change gears as needed, a few cogs, then into the smaller chainring, and then more cogs if needed. You can either stand up to get over the top or simply pedal at a comfortable cadence. That depends on you and your hill.

Once over the hill, do not coast. Put it in the big ring and get ready for the next one. This way, you will be able to sling yourself halfway up the hill by pedaling down the previous hill.

I practice this technique on rollers, but some of the worst hills in Southern Indiana are like monoliths. You'll be travelling on an otherwise flat road and suddenly hit what seems like a wall. It's hard to know how to approach them. I wonder if Owlie is encountering the same thing in Cincinnati.

[Owlie]

I'm actually in Cleveland (at least, most of the time), which is pretty flat. The hills here aren't terribly steep, but they're long. I just double-checked the elevation profile, and it looks like the incline changes right around where I hit that wall. :eek:

The hills in my neighborhood back home are pretty steep. Those don't give me a problem--I just keep pedaling. I manage 7-9 mph on those and don't feel like I've been hit by a steamroller. (Okay, I need to catch my breath a bit at the top, but still!) There's a bit of a roller there, which helps, but not much. (Indy, we have some of those monolith hills. I just don't ride on them!)

On my ride tomorrow I'll try out my granny gear, and try to remember that I just have to get up the hill. :)

[parity]

Get out of the saddle and sprint like hell until the top. Throwing up is optional but if you do, you know you did it right.

[Biciclista]

just to counter what parity said; I won't work hard enough to puke. sorry... I would rather push the bike up the hill on foot than push my body to the puking point.

[parity]

just to counter what parity said; I won't work hard enough to puke. sorry... I would rather push the bike up the hill on foot than push my body to the puking point.

Not to side track this thread but I have never puked myself but have felt it in my stomach like I was about to a few times. Then there was the time I got tunnel vision and thought I may pass out. Good times.

[Owlie]

I tried my hill again today. I started up at a more moderate pace and blew up where the incline changes. I ended up walking the last quarter of it. I can assign some of the blame to not eating enough and to really pushing on the flats (new speed records there!). Perhaps tomorrow...

[Crankin]

Not necessary to puke.

[ny biker]

Like the joke about how you get to Carnegie Hall, hills require practice. I am lucky to live in a hilly area, so I can plan routes where I just ride up and down hills for 20 miles if I need the training. In the 'hood where I live I can ride in a circle up and down the same hill over and over. There's a limit to how fast I try to go because I'm not a fan of triggering asthma attacks, but hill repeats do make me a little faster and they make the hills easier.

Is there anyplace you can do something similar?

[drgynfyr]

dont feel bad, i still cant do the hills and i've been riding for about 8 months. just keep trying... and wear gear (it makes you more confident to try). I'm one to talk though i still freak out about half way up and end up walking...

you arent alone ! :)

[Owlie]

What I think is funny is that I have fewer problems on steep ones than I do on not-so-steep ones. Those long, shallow climbs suck it out of me. I had some issues early this summer with it, but I got over it. I haven't done much riding (or anything else) so my fitness is an issue here.

No real hilly rides here, but this one isn't too bad to do intervals on. It's easier than the parallel street, anyway--there's no stop sign in the middle of it! (Much nicer pavement, too!) I'll do that tomorrow, I think, and skip the speeding along on the flats.

[OakLeaf]

I totally hear you. I did a ride from Dallas with my sister a couple of years ago, and those 4-5% grades were just KILLING me! My legs don't have a gear for that stuff!

[LivetoRide]

Since I stopped watching my computer, my riding and climbing got better. Don't worry about your speed and when riding with others, don't make yourself climb at exactly the same speed they do; do what feels right to you.

While climbing I'm always thinking about being relaxed on the tops of my bars and breathing "correctly". I used to put it in the big ring and pedal down hills when doing rollers but my climbing has overall improved since I stopped (knee problems made it not worth it). Down shift when needed and as much as you need.

There's some downright nasty climbs here in Indiana. I can do long, more gradual climbs but those 20-24% monsters just due me in!

[marni]

Today's life lesson about hills.

an old man is out riding slowly and peacefully up a long steep hill. He was not going fast but simply climbing at a regular steady pace. Pretty soon along comes a dude in team bibs and jersey, fancy racing bike, time trial type helmet etc. He blows past the old man yelling out "Hey old man, want to race?"

The old man just ignores him and keeps peddling peacefully up the hill.

Pretty soon along comes another guy, pushing his speed and trying hard. He calls out " come on man, you can go faster than that" as he blows past.

The old man just smiles and waves at him, wishing him a good day.

Pretty soon along comes a third guy, who takes a minute or two to ride next the to old man, asking him if he is feeling ok and does he need help to get up the hill.

The old man waves him on and keeps on peddling peacefully up the hill.

Pretty soon, a last fast rider rides up to the old man, pulls out to pass and says " aren't you eager to get up the hill? Why don't you see if you can go any faster."

The old man just smiles and says " ah the top of the hill will still be there whenever I get there."

[shootingstar]

Well today, we did a gentle long hill which...bewildered us, because we were panting unnecessarily.

Dearie reminded me that Calgary was at a higher elevation than Vancouver...1,000 ft. higher for whole city.

It was just so strange....since I knew the grade was no more than 8% which is normally easy for me.

So the lesson is, a new city /area might be overall at a higher elevation than old place. So first day or so, you might notice certain effort on certain hill climbs.

[bikegrrl]

I've had joggers pass me. Embarrasing until one of them slowed down and told me my saddle was too low. He was right. I worked to get my seat up at the right position and its been much easier to take the hills since then

[Jiffer]

I didn't read all the replies, but I have a few comments.

Are you changing to an easier gear when you climb?

Are you pedaling efficiently, pedaling through the entire rotation? I notice the benefit of proper pedaling on hills more than anywhere else. When I'm struggling with a climb and start to focus on how I'm pedaling, I often start going faster.

Also, as for getting stronger, both for climbing and riding in general, intervals will help a lot. I like to do intervals on a specific route at specific locations. I'll hit my lap button on my Garmin and ride as fast as I can from a specific spot to another (usually between two intersections). I typically do my intervals on hills. I hit my lap button at the end of the interval and try to do it faster than previous times. I keep track of all my intervals. If you're not used to intervals, two minutes can be a LOT if you're really pushing all out (which is the idea). So you might start with 30 seconds or a minute and work your way to two minutes or longer. Then ride super easy for a while in between intervals. When you push yourself at an intense rate for a short period, it makes riding a not so hard intensity easier for longer periods.

I usually prefer doing intervals based on distance, because it's easier than looking down at my Garmin over and over again to see if I'm at 2 minutes yet (or however long I am choosing to go). It is especially hard to do this when standing during an interval, which is another good thing to do (standing intervals).

I noticed a big improvement when I got serious about adding interval rides into my weekly rides. You don't want to do intervals every ride. Your body needs a break between really hard rides, which might be intervals, really long rides, intense climbing rides, lactaid threshold rides (you can look that one up!), etc.

[OakLeaf]

You should be able to set audible alerts on the Garmin. Even my old 301 had that capability.

I might still be looking at mine when I'm three-quarters of the way through a repeat and my legs and lungs are screaming ... but I don't have to. :cool:

[indigoiis]

There's also the psychological aspect of hills. This is a big problem with me and I continue to work on it. If you look at a hill and think, "Oh God, a HILL!" then it is going to suck. Better to look at a hill and make a deal with it. "Oh, hello HILL. Not for nothing but you are going to TOPPED today." And then relax, switch to an easier gear, spin up, and start counting. I count revolutions on my right leg. Sometimes, I sing the alphabet. Generally, either one of these things gets me moving. And when I can see the top, I stand up to pedal. Not hard, I just get my rear out of the saddle because psychologically it perks me up.

I may be breathing heavy (I'm a heavy breather - it's kinda funny when you're behind someone) but I am generally pretty happy once I get to the top.

Speed doesn't matter so much as efficiency.

I'm weird - I'd rather take a short (1/2 to 1 mile), really steep hill (Redrhodie can attest to this) than a long false flat. I get really bummed on false flats.

[Crankin]

You are not weird. I am the same way. I can climb just about any short steep hill. But the long 4-10 mile climbs I hear others talking about, no way, even if they are of a lesser grade. And false flats; I really hate those and often find myself going as slowly as I do when climbing some hills.

[smurfalicious]

I just dug this out of my Training Peaks log, it hurts, it sucks, it's miserable, it will make you hate life and doubt your will to live but it works:

Long (6+ minutes), steady climbs. 4-6% grades. Climb mostly in saddle at 60-70 rpm. Heart rate 1-5a zones. Don't go above your 5a zone.

Oooooh does pushing those big gears at low cadence HURT but man it's made my big old sprinter butt better. It HURTS, did I mention that? Like get to the top of the hill and call your momma in a tears HURTS!!!!

Living in Colorado I have a 90 minute ride that gets me 3 of these lovely reps. The last one I really want to die, but man afterwards I feel so awesome about myself. I don't recommend this ride if you're really new, but it's a good one to toss in.

This sucker is a devil too, but also worth doing:

Hill anaerobic endurance + Treshhold. On a 4-6% hill do 4-5 x 3 minutes to the heart rate 5b zone (3-minute recoveries). Stay seated on each. 60-70 rpm. Then ride 20 minutes in the heart rate 4-5a zones on a mostly flat course. Aero position.

That one is geared a little more toward tri work, but if you just do the hill part it's worth it. My coach says the recoveries can be frantic little gear spinning, weaving and all that (with a mind on traffic, natch), just get your HR down.

Hope this helps, promise not to hate me if you do them and they suck. :p

[sundial]

First off, stop looking at your speed for the time being.

Sage advice!

I was climbing the hill of hills and made the mistake of looking down at the computer. One look and I :eek: and then blew up. :o Now I think of a song to match my cadence and I spin up the hill.

[smilingcat]

long gentle climbs can be very brutal. You notice that your speed is down but you're getting winded. HELLO!!!! You're forgetting its an uphill. It doesn't matter that it was two miles. 500 foot climb is a 500 foot climb. Steep and short or long and gentle. It still is a 500 foot climb. the gentle climbs just take it out on you because you think you should be able to continue at your speed on the flats.

Not so.

Pacing is important on gentle climbs and on false flats. Don't beat yourself up over a long gentle climb. Its not easy.

[indigoiis]

long gentle climbs can be very brutal. You notice that your speed is down but you're getting winded. HELLO!!!! You're forgetting its an uphill. It doesn't matter that it was two miles. 500 foot climb is a 500 foot climb. Steep and short or long and gentle. It still is a 500 foot climb. the gentle climbs just take it out on you because you think you should be able to continue at your speed on the flats.

Not so.

Pacing is important on gentle climbs and on false flats. Don't beat yourself up over a long gentle climb. Its not easy.

This is so true.

So, methodology on false flats should be... just take down a gear or two? I feel like sometimes on false flats that I am wimping out by gearing down too soon. I get passed a lot on false flats. Plus my 63 year old riding partner (granted she and her bike combined are also 25 lbs lighter than me and my bike) just flies up the false flats. Meh. :cool:

[indysteel]

I don't know that there's a right or wrong approach to any given hill. Some people do better spinning in a smaller gear. Others do better staying in a bigger gear but slowing their cadence down. Sometimes, your best bet is to do a little bit of both.

The nice thing about a long climb or a false flat, is that it's easy enough to play around with your technique. So, that's what I would encourage you to do for now. Next time you hit a false flat, stay in the same gear and let the ride slow your cadence down a bit. If it gets too slow and/or your knees or quads tell you "no thanks," shift to the next easiest cog. Or do just the opposite. Shift to the next easiest cog, but keep your cadence the same as it would be on the flats. Don't worry about getting passed by somebody. You don't really learn how to pace yourself up a climb if you're not riding YOUR pace.

For me, the most important thing is that I feel in control. My bike and breathing are steady. My upper body is relaxed and my chest is open. My cadence is controlled and even. My mind is staying in the present (I'm not impatienct about getting to the top).

[Catrin]

I am still trying to find that balance between spinning easy and taking that hill with a lower cadence in a harder gear. I actually prefer the latter - it just does not feel right to me to climb a hill spinning fast in an easy gear - I feel much more in control - and go faster - with a lower cadence/harder gear. Not that I am doing much hill climbing right now...and when I do I make myself spin easy even though I dislike climbing that way.

In the end, I think that I feel more in control of the bike with the slower cadence/harder gear than I do with a higher cadence/easy gear.