Dog Behavior Question

[XMcShiftersonX]

So, this is something that has been bothering me for awhile, seems to be happening more frequently, and I'm not sure what my responsibility is as far as how to react as the dog owner.

I own a very large but very friendly great dane named Megatron. He's still a puppy, but at 17 months old he is 140+ pounds and just over 3 feet tall at the shoulder. He's a very energetic, outgoing, playful, and friendly puppy. Unfortunately, because of his size people are almost always afraid of him and think he is big, scary, and mean. I usually chalk this up to "their problem" and just let him be himself. He's never hurt anything and even when he plays with toy-sized dogs he's very gentle and careful to never step on them.

Lately every time we go to the dog park we encounter little kids running around. Megatron inevitably chases them and either just runs into them and knocks them over, and then proceeds to mouth them (he does this with us, it doesn't hurt, although it probably doesn't look good), or starts to jump on them knocking them over. He obviously thinks they're playing and is just mimicking their energy. They inevitably get scared and start crying, etc. My initial reaction is what a stupid kid for running at the dog park, and where is their parents to tell them that's a horrible idea. However, I'm biased because I don't like kids. When I determine Megatron is being too rough with them or they seem extremely freaked out, I'll call him away. I don't scold him because I don't think he's doing anything wrong - he's a playful puppy and it's a dog park. Sometimes my husband or I will say, it's not a good idea to run at the dog park to the kid and/or parent if there's one around. Sometimes I'm so frustrated I won't say anything to the people and just grab Megatron and go a different direction.

But, I've been struggling with what my responsibility should be. My personal belief is that if you can't handle the dogs at the dog park you shouldn't be running around or behaving in a way that would make them want to play with you. Obviously a little 5 year old kid can barely handle a 20 pound dog let alone 140. But, this is a place for my dog to be free, and since he's a good dog, he should be allowed to. It's not like he's a malicious and violent dog. I feel like I need a shirt that says, "I don't let my dog run around in your playground, don't let your kids run around in my dog park." :D I'm sure even given the situation, if Megatron accidentally hurt a kid by knocking them over, even if it was only because he's so big, it would be considered my fault. Which I also feel is a little ridiculous. But I don't know. Thoughts?

-Jessica

[lph]

I don't have a dog, but I love Great Danes - and I love the name Megatron :)

I have kids, well, kid, and personally I feel that it's my responsibility as a parent to make sure my son is happy around animals. Mostly because I want to - I love animals myself and have grown up with horses, dogs and cats, and in a area where cattle and sheep grazed freely in summer. But also because even if we didn't keep any pets of our own, he's sure to meet dogs, riding horses etc around that other people own.

[smilingcat]

We keep our golden and lab away from very small kids. I don't want to take any chances with lawsuits being filed against me. It's bit inconvenient and we know our dogs will not hut a child but the parents may not think the same, nor the police, judge, and jury. I have too much to lose so we don't take chances.

What if your dog was only mouthing a child (a very bad habit in our opinion), and child screams, and the parents say that your dog bit and attacked their child viciously. You know the dog didn't break the child's skin, there is no bruise, but the interpretation of what happened is going to get very messy.

Let Megatron run loose when there are no small kids in the area. It may be a hassle but lot less than the hassle of going to court to defend Megatron and his life. Most states have one bite law. The second bite declares the dog vicious and could be put down. It's not something I want my golden and lab to face.

I know its not something you want to hear; but, you need to. Look at it from a parent who has a phobia of dogs and sees their child being mouthed by a 140 pound dog. They will have a very different view than you.

sincerely,

[Selkie]

Why are "free range children" running around a dog park? Are there posted rules at the park? Maybe you can get in touch w/your local government about this issue and see if they can do something about it. After all, you're not taking your dog to a children's playground.

Agree w/the others. Unfortunately, Megatron is going to be portrayed as being at fault for being a dog, behaving like a dog, in a dog park should one of these children get hurt and the parents go after you. It's not worth it---find another place for him to romp.

Puppies mouth--that's how they play (my three goldens, all adults, do this to each other all the time, and sometimes, the 18 month old forgets and mouths me or my DH).

[OakLeaf]

I don't think small children should be running around unsupervised at a dog park, for sure.

But I also think that there are some games that people shouldn't play with dogs, just because of the possibility of unforeseen consequences. Most people know that you should never chase your dog - even though all dogs love to play chase/being chased. I think any game where your dog knocks someone over falls into that category, too. Or even jumping up on someone - honestly I think even small dogs should be trained not to do that. Small-ish dogs are constantly climbing up the backs of my legs when I go running in the country, and I'm scared to death I'll accidentally kick one of them in the throat with my heel. :(

One of my Ickey's favorite games was lunging at my face or my husband's as we sat on the floor. We'd shove her back by the chest, she'd lunge back. Closed lips for sure - although she busted my lips more than once, and once nearly broke my nose. :D In retrospect, maybe we shouldn't have played that game with her. But she never even tried to lunge at someone who hadn't initiated the game with her first.

Not that I have children, and I'm between dogs right now. I agree with the idea of contacting whoever is responsible for the dog park.

[Becky]

I think there's two issues here. The first is the kids at the dog park, and I agree that the agency in charge of the park needs to be made aware of the issue.

The other is the mouthing and jumping. Yep, he's a puppy, and that's what they do, but these are behaviors that can be reduced and re-directed through training. My 8-year old lab still mouths other dogs while playing, but dog teeth on human skin is not allowed, and he knows that any play stops the minute that teeth touch skin. We've not had quite as much success with breaking him of jumping up to greet people, but we keep working at it :o

We were fortunate to find a really good positive reinforcment-style dog trainer at our local humane association, and their rates were super-reasonable.

Good luck!

[PamNY]

Yikes. Kids should not be running around at a dog park. Period. The situation you describe is dangerous, and shouldn't continue. Your responsibility is very clear: you are responsible for making sure Megatron doesn't hurt a human being, even accidentally. It would be nice if all parents controlled their kids and if all humans knew how to interact with a dogs, but that isn't going to happen.

Mouthing and jumping is okay between dogs; between dogs and people it isn't. Dogs can easily learn this distinction.

You should immediately teach Megatron that mouthing people is not acceptable; ditto for jumping on people. I use clicker training; it's easy, fun and backed by sound, up-to-date science.

To change these behaviors, you've got to address them when they occur. Scolding him after you've called him away would do no good anyway -- the dog won't know what you are talking about.

To gain a greater understanding of dog-human interaction, I'd suggesting reading books by Jean Donaldson (Culture Clash is a classic; it changed my life) and The Other End of the Leash by Dr. Patricia McConnell are good starting points.

[Biciclista]

Although I agree that kids shouldn't be running around in a dog park, your dog's behavior could end up in a nasty lawsuit. If I had a 140 pound dog and little kids were running in the dog park, I would not let my dog loose especially if I knew he liked to chase and "mouth" children. Even if he just liked to bump them, that is not appropriate behavior. What if he "bumps" an 80 year old lady and she breaks her hip?

[NbyNW]

I don't know which park you're going to, but perhaps if things don't change after raising this problem of unsupervised children running around the dog park, you might explore other off-leash areas near you.

When we lived in Seattle, we found a book called The Dog Lover's Companion to the Pacific Northwest: The Inside Scoop on Where to Take Your Dog (http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Lovers-Companion-Pacific-Northwest/dp/1598800329/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1289229319&sr=8-1)

It has very useful reviews on dog parks in the area, as well as dog-friendly restaurants (usually you will have to sit outside, but sometimes that's better than leaving the puppy at home or in the car!).

Some parks are definitely busier and more popular than others. Might be helpful if you can find a place where Megatron can play without kids invading and being a hazard to themselves and others.

[tulip]

I do not have kids. I do have a dog. My dog does not do well with kids. He used to live with kids. But they taunted him and now he's fearful of and aggressive towards them. I cannot undo what kids did to him. But I can be absolutely sure to keep my dog away from kids.

Dogs should be properly trained to behave around humans, including (particularly) kids. If the dog is not trained to behave, it should not be allowed to be around people/kids/other dogs/cats...

Kids are unpredictable. Of course, your dog is perfect, but what if a kid decided to bite your dog, or poke him in the eye, or otherwise taunt him? That's what kids do. When that happens, the dog's natural reaction is to bite back. When a dog bites a kid, the dog owner get sued and the dog gets put down. Not to mention, the kid gets injured and develops a fear of dogs. But the kid is not your responsibility either way. The dog is your responsibility.

You cannot control the kids or the parents. But you can control your dog. Your dog is big, and therefore training should be even a bigger priority. Until your dog can behave appropriately around kids, you should keep him away from them.

[Pedal Wench]

I've had Mastiffs and even though I knew they were sweet and gentle, I knew that if a child was knocked down by them, it would be my fault if they were injured. I would have to ask parents, sometimes forcefully, to keep their children away if we were walking. Kids would come running up to pet, the dog would get all excited, and I would have to run away from these little kids. My dog, my responsibility.

[alimey]

Different situation in the UK - we don't have dog parks - you can let your dog off the leash in most places. But that means there are free range kids everywhere - and in London that means lots of kids scared of dogs. When my Vizsla was a puppy she would run up kids & if they ran, she chased. So I kept a good eye out for trouble of all kinds on the horizon (joggers, cyclists, horseriders, zimmer frames - you name it), and monitored her closely. I only intervened if necessary & worked a lot on voice control.

Given that you don't have much opportunity to let you dog off the leash (which I think is incredibly important), it does make sense to see if you can get the kids removed from the dog park. I would definitely work on training him not to mouth as he will keep this behaviour even when very excited & then it can get a bit painful (eg; am currently working on it during agility!!). However, the situation should get a lot better as he grows up. It seems that the larger the dog - the slower they mature. My Vizsla stopped chasing kids before she was 12 months - but it might be 24 months for a Dane. I must say, whilst some of the Danes I have met are prepared to play & rush around - the vast majority seem to prefer to be a bit more sedate. So hopefully the problem will resolve itself (as long as things aren't too manic in the dog park)

[Biciclista]

here are her words of wisdom

Well I agree with everyone that kids and dog parks don't go hand in hand. Stoo-pid parents for putting their kids at risk allowing this and stoo-pid dog people for putting up with it. I certainly wouldn't have a problem telling the parent to get the kid on a leash. One second of hesitation because you are worried about offending someone is that second in time that your dogs life, not to mention the kids, could be changed forever.

No one of course really touched on the real issues here. Number one; people think that dogs need to romp and play with other dogs. Do you see wolf packs interacting with strange wolves? No. We humans use dog parks like "we" think dogs need them. It's an excuse to be a lazy *** and not spend time with your dog interacting with them. I see more dog people chatting with each other and/or talking on the cell phone than paying attention.

If this dog owner thinks letting a 140 lb dog mouth human skin is OK because he's gentle, she's an idiot. In this day and age even if the dog did no more than mouth someone she's setting herself up for a law suit and her dog for impoundment. The dog is barely a juvenile and it sounds like he hasn't even entered into the difficult phase that all dogs go through like teenagers. OK so she doesn't like kids, fine, but that isn't going to help if the dog chases a kid, the kid falls down and breaks an arm. The parents still have a right to suit her. Just because something isn't right doesn't mean that someone can't or won't suit you. I believe my grandmother called that biting your nose off to spite your face. :)

[XMcShiftersonX]

The park where this has been an issue is Marymoor park. It's an amazing park, and I think Megatron's favorite because it's huge, has long grass for him to sprint through and chase other dogs around the park, there's trails that we can walk through and we go hiking on a regular basis so this is something he really enjoys, there's water from the river for him to drink, and there's always a ton of dogs eager to play with him regardless of his size!

Megatron was in a house with babies in children before we got him at 7 weeks, and he's always very curious and pleasant around them when they're not running. He'll walk up to them look them directly in the face and sniff them or lick them. Most of the time he's not too interested in adults at the park if there's a lot of dogs around for him to play with, but if we're out walking or anything he always wants to walk up to people and smell them.

When he plays with other dogs, like I said he's very gentle, he usually matches their energy level with his own. But they jump on each other, wrestle, mouth each other, etc. and that's something that when he was in obedience class and they had their play time was seen as okay as long as when a dog yelped, the other dog backed off, and Megatron always did and does.

Someone brought up what if a parent has a phobia and sees their kid being mouthed by a 140 pound dog... Well, I would hope someone with a phobia of dogs, even if it's just big dogs, wouldn't be found at the dog park. I definitely do not feel it is my problem in that situation.

Also, there are no signs regarding kids at this dog park that I'm aware of. I'm not going to put my dog on leash at the dog park if I see kids running around, but maybe I'll just be more on top of him if I see that so that he does not actually reach the child, just in case he knocks them over. Before I would just kind of wait to see what was going to happen, because the kid doesn't always get knocked over, usually just scared. I think I'll make it a bigger point to communicate, "look, my dog is a nice dog but it's not smart to run at the dog park," rather than not say anything at all.

[XMcShiftersonX]

No one of course really touched on the real issues here. Number one; people think that dogs need to romp and play with other dogs. Do you see wolf packs interacting with strange wolves? No. We humans use dog parks like "we" think dogs need them. It's an excuse to be a lazy *** and not spend time with your dog interacting with them. I see more dog people chatting with each other and/or talking on the cell phone than paying attention.

Perhaps mention to your friend that in addition to going to the dog park a couple times a week... We also take Megatron on a 1 1/2-2 hour walk every morning, an hour walk mid day, and a 1/2 hour walk at night?

When we don't take him to the dog park for awhile, it's noticeable that he's even more high energy than usual and gets into things he normally wouldn't. We've socialized him since day one of having him because we were told with big dogs it's important to make sure they're socially well adjusted so they don't have fear-aggression and hurt people and other animals violently.

[badger]

oh wow, he's GORGEOUS!!

When I had my dog, what bugged me was people assumed he was mean and vicious and would cross the street when we came closer. He was a mellow, 80lb mostly rottie with a docked tail, and it's amazing what a lack of tail does to an image of a dog. One woman even freaked out when the elevator door opened and we tried to get in. She was waving her hands and screaming, and my dog was like "what?"

Anyways, my guy was super gentle with every creature, including babies, but I always kept a very close eye on him, and always had him leashed JUST IN CASE. I remember this one time I had him off leash during a picnic, and he went straight to this toddler with a hotdog - took it right out of her hand!! luckily the child and her parents saw humour in it, but that was the only time I wasn't "careful" around children with him.

It's always good to have him trained enough to control him if he starts playing rough for the child, though. People are weird, and it's in your best interest to protect yourself and your dog should you encounter someone who's letigious-happy.

[Biciclista]

Perhaps mention to your friend that in addition to going to the dog park a couple times a week... We also take Megatron on a 1 1/2-2 hour walk every morning, an hour walk mid day, and a 1/2 hour walk at night?

.

will do, yes.

[tulip]

XMcShftersonX, so why did you ask the question in the first place? You obviously don't want any other answer than your own.

Good luck, and I really hope that there's never an incident, real or perceived, between your dog and a kid. If there is, you WILL be held responsible.

[GLC1968]

Perhaps mention to your friend that in addition to going to the dog park a couple times a week... We also take Megatron on a 1 1/2-2 hour walk every morning, an hour walk mid day, and a 1/2 hour walk at night?

When we don't take him to the dog park for awhile, it's noticeable that he's even more high energy than usual and gets into things he normally wouldn't. We've socialized him since day one of having him because we were told with big dogs it's important to make sure they're socially well adjusted so they don't have fear-aggression and hurt people and other animals violently.

I think this is smart. I had a dog that was wonderfully socialized as a young dog because I worked very hard at it. Then I had to leave her with my mom for 3 months while I was sent out of state for work. When I got back, my dog had the beginings of dog-aggression that just escalated. My mom and dad walked her twice daily and played with her in the yard all the time. What they didn't do, was let her anywhere near any other dog. EVER. It was this behavior that taught her that dogs were a threat to the humans in her family/pack. It became a HUGE problem. She wouldn't allow any dog within 100 feet of me without turning into a viscious beast! Luckily, I'm strong and could control her physically...but man, it sucked. I am a FIRM believer that if dogs will be in contact with other dogs (like living in a city) then it is CRITICAL that they have supervised interaction with dogs so that they know how to act. Socialization is very important.

Now, I agree with what Mimi's friend said about people who take their dogs to dog parks and then ignore them while they are on the phone or gabbing with friends. That's not right either, but I certainly don't get that impression from the OP at all.

I also don't like kids and I'm a huge fan of dogs - particularly large ones. I totally want to meet Megatron now! Anyway, I agree that you should work on teaching him not to mouth humans as that's not very hard to do and probably a good idea anyway. I would also make sure that you are always paying attention when at the park (which it sounds like you are already) so that you can give the command to bring Megatron back to you if you see crazy children. We have one dog that won't start fights, but LOVES to insert is defective-hip-rear-end into the middle of them at the dog park. We have to be very viligent so that we can call him off when other dogs start to quibble or he'd get hurt in a hurry. Anyway, lastly, I would do as you suggest and nicely mention to people who's children are running around that it's a dangerous thing to do in a dog park and that while you know your dog is friendly, not all of them are... Frame it as your concern for their kids' safety and it might go over better.

Other than that, you are welcome to bring Megatron to our house to play with the 5 dogs we now regularly have tearing around our property. :D He'd have a blast! Honestly, no more need for dog parks is one of the best parts about living in the country!

(and our dogs are never left outside without supervision, so they are not the scary unleashed country dogs that chase bicyclists!;))

[PamNY]

Someone brought up what if a parent has a phobia and sees their kid being mouthed by a 140 pound dog... Well, I would hope someone with a phobia of dogs, even if it's just big dogs, wouldn't be found at the dog park. I definitely do not feel it is my problem in that situation.

Also, there are no signs regarding kids at this dog park that I'm aware of. I'm not going to put my dog on leash at the dog park if I see kids running around, but maybe I'll just be more on top of him if I see that so that he does not actually reach the child, just in case he knocks them over. Before I would just kind of wait to see what was going to happen, because the kid doesn't always get knocked over, usually just scared. I think I'll make it a bigger point to communicate, "look, my dog is a nice dog but it's not smart to run at the dog park," rather than not say anything at all.

Before I had rescue dogs in Manhattan, I would probably have said something like "do not feel it is my problem." Well -- guess what -- after years walking dogs in crowds, I believe it's ALL my problem. A dog-phobic person in a dog park does not come close to being the stupidest thing I've seen.

I used a Snoot Loop with one dog (similar to the Gentle Leader) and a lot of people think it's a muzzle. One time eight-year-old twins were on their knees kissing my dog when their father turned to me and said "Why do you have a muzzle on him?" I was speechless -- you thought it was a muzzle and your kids are all over my dog all the time?

I think your idea of encouraging kids not to run is a good one. Being proactive with children is something I do all the time. Based on what you've said here, though, I do worry about what might happen. Please keep in mind your gorgeous dog needs you to protect him!

[colby]

We have a boxer-rottweiler mix (tail also docked), she weighs about 70 lbs. Of course, being a boxer and a rottweiler, she has a solid woof, is very muscular, and she loves to greet people. She has been known to knock some kids over (not intentionally), and alligator-snap in their direction if they poke where she doesn't want to be poked. She is another that won't put teeth on skin.

She knows kids are units to be protected, but isn't quite sure about how to interact with them, especially the smaller ones (the same ones she can knock over). We've used kids of friends as training for her, to teach her that kids are units that she needs to respond to, not just be aware of, and to try to reduce her jealousy of the attention that kids get. She also has a herding instinct that we have to try to turn off - sometimes if we're playing a chase game (like tag) with a kid, she'll start trying to herd the kid, nipping at their heels or clothes (never skin, but I'm sure to a parent it just looks like scary rottweiler/boxer eating my precious child). It doesn't matter how much exercise she gets, something turns it on and you have to be the one to turn it off. I think with a lot more practice, we could work it out and she'd learn that children are not to be herded in that way. :P

I think some kids end up at the dog park because, well, they love dogs. But, dogs are a two way street, and it's important for kids to learn how to deal with dogs as well. Maybe teach your dog to respond to a command that you can also teach the kids, and turn it into a learning exercise (rather than something negative). That would also give you something you could use to call him off if you think it's getting ahead of what the kid can handle. Or, if you can teach him to look to you before he sets off, you can give him the "okay" to run if you're confident (or confirm) the kid can handle it.

I looked up the rules for our dog park and I think they could use a section on human responsibilities, too. There's some general stuff, like "remain in control" and "kids under 16 must have a parent present," but not really enough on "how to be a responsible dog park user."

As an aside, that (loosely) reminds me of a sign at Cat Tales, a wild cat park that says: "Don't Run, You Look Like Food." ;) http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/j1VdzZeeSEC1UXNu3mmuwA

Good on you for the long walks and staying attentive to him at the dog park, though. I do see a lot of humans doing the "hang around and chat while your dog misbehaves". My dog seems to want to smell everything and follow me more than play, so I haven't actually had to deal with a lot of dog park interaction.

[XMcShiftersonX]

@ Badger - Yes, the problems of people's misconceptions of a large dog or specific breed is a very real problem. I can't count the number of times people have screamed, ran, or said mean things about him because they just assumed a dog that big was mean. He's really quite the opposite as I've said... a big happy-go-lucky goof.

@GLC - If I'm ever in the area or you're ever up here we will definitely have to arrange something. I'm sure Megatron would be happy to meet everyone! We will continue to work on the mouthing issue. He's been attempting to mouth us since we first got him. Each time we tell him no firmly and either stop playing with him and walk away, or give him a toy to chew on rather than our hands, etc. This is what we were told in our obedience classes, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work because it's 15 months since we got him and he's still doing it! Does anyone have any other suggestions?

@Pam - We used to use a gentle leader when we were teaching Megatron not to pull and we had the same situations on a regular basis! I couldn't believe that people thought it was a muzzle. I think it actually heightened the fear people had about him being a mean dog because of his size. I was constantly explaining he's a really nice dog, he doesn't bite, it's so that he doesn't pull me.

@Colby - I LOVE that cat sign!!

@Tulip - I'm curious as to why you think that. I wanted to get an idea of how other people feel about this and what others' expectations are. I am listening to everything people have to say, but I'm also finding a balance between what I believe and what others believe. I don't think living in fear or making decisions over the small chance you may get sued is any way to live. It's something to keep in mind, and I am going to work with my dog on improving his behavior to uphold my responsibility (by working on his mouthing humans and trying to redirect him when there's children running around), but I still hold that there's another side (the children and their parents) that need to behave appropriately as well.

[kermit]

First off...I love your big boy. I have a friend with one and dealing with a small horse on a leash can be a big issue. If I were you, I would remove the prey drive he has for chasing kids. This behavior is a hunting instinct and small kids in his mind are prey. I work with a police K9 and we often have this problem with green dogs and kids in the terminal of the airport. He doesn't have the kill instinct in him, but mouthing is the same behavior. Take him to the park and "set him up" with kids running. Kept on a leash at your side and keep him from chasing kids. He has got to learn that chasing anything is not okay. If kids want to come and pet him, let them, and praise him for siting calmly and not chasing. Unfortunately you have a small horse and even if you think he is "playing" he could hurt someone and I guarantee you any court will find in favor of the child and against the dog owner. Keep yourself safe from liability. He needs some basic obedience. Even if you take him on a flexie, the dog park can be used for basic obedience and the jumps and tunnels can be used for exercise. Find a few obedience classes in your area. He sounds cool!

[NbyNW]

XMcShiftersonX, I had an inkling you were talking about Marymoor from your initial description!

It is super-popular with families and I think that will be hard to change. It sounds like you have the right idea with being proactive about Megatron's behavior if a free-range child comes into view.

I also feel that when you are in the off-leash area, it's completely appropriate to coach people how to interact with your dog, if they indicate that they want to. The park is well-signed so presumably they know they are going to encounter dogs off-leash! Especially if they are also bringing their own dog.

In my dog Gordy's case, I tell people he can be a bit shy and nervous around new people, so they should just let him sniff their hand and then scratch him under the chin if he comes to them. If I have treats handy, I will show them how to ask him to sit and then reward him with a treat.

Maybe for Megatron, something like "he doesn't know his own size . . . " to break the ice, followed by how you would like people to interact with him for a positive encounter.

It's too bad we don't live in Seattle anymore, because Gordy gets along with larger dogs really well. I bet they'd get along really well!

I would also recommend checking out other dog parks in the area. You might find one that doesn't have so many kids running around, and you would still be able to get that interaction with other dogs that is important.

[Becky]

We will continue to work on the mouthing issue. He's been attempting to mouth us since we first got him. Each time we tell him no firmly and either stop playing with him and walk away, or give him a toy to chew on rather than our hands, etc. This is what we were told in our obedience classes, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work because it's 15 months since we got him and he's still doing it! Does anyone have any other suggestions?

You're on the right track, but it takes as long to un-do a bad habit as it did to learn it. E.g., the longer he's been doing it, the longer it will take to break. I definitely second Pam's suggestion to read 'The Culture Clash", and I also recommend Ian Dunbar's books.

Be patient, be consistent (this goes for everyone who routinely interacts with him), and be willing to seek help from a professional trainer.

[XMcShiftersonX]

You're on the right track, but it takes as long to un-do a bad habit as it did to learn it. E.g., the longer he's been doing it, the longer it will take to break. I definitely second Pam's suggestion to read 'The Culture Clash", and I also recommend Ian Dunbar's books.

Be patient, be consistent (this goes for everyone who routinely interacts with him), and be willing to seek help from a professional trainer.

Yes! Those books sounded interesting when the first person mentioned them, I'm going to have to look into them.

[Pedal Wench]

I don't think living in fear or making decisions over the small chance you may get sued is any way to live.

Not to offend, but instead of thinking about your pocketbook, what about the child who doesn't know any better who gets knocked over and breaks an arm, or god-forbid, sustains a head injury. Far-fetched, but a possibility.

I would find another park if I couldn't keep my dog from this behavior.

[jelee1311]

I'm a big dog owner and a mom,and I don't care where I'm at dogpark or anywhere else its up to me to control my dog. I've never allowed my dog to knock over,jump on or mouth anyone let alone a child. I was mauled at 4 years old and I would never want anyone to have an experience like that. I know you say your dog is great but id be upset if he came after my child. My dog weighs somewhere around 110lbs and we childproofed him at a young age,then again before my daughter was born he's a lab mix so puppy dumb lasted about 5 years. I've also gone out of my way to spend just as much time training my daughter to act properly,be respectful and always ask and thank before we pet dogs. You can't control someone elses children but you have to control your dogchild. One author we rread to get ideas for childproofing our dog was Brian Kilcommon (I think that's how you spell it) good luck

[Laterider21958]

No brainer really! If you love your dog and want him to live a long and happy life, keep him away from any danger of being accused of hurting anybody or any other animal. No matter where you are - even in your own home.

I have a cute little West Highland terrier - read "Kid Magnet", and I put myself in between her and them each time they approach. She's never ever done anything to anybody, however you can never trust that a child won't poke her in the eye or do some other thing that could provoke retaliation in self defense. Even a warning non-contact "snap" could be perceived as "vicious". I would much rather take precautions than to have my very pampered, and loved pet, put down just because some idiot parent won't teach their child how to behave near animals.

So, if you love Megatron, be his best friend and protector. Leash him if kids are running nearby. Frustrating and unfair when at a dog designated park, I know, but better safe than sorry. Injury to a human = dead dog. Simple.

[Selkie]

Tamar Gellar's "The Loved Dog" (DVD and/or book) is fantastic for training your pooch. Positive reinforcement. Her methods have worked w/our golden retriever Divas! No offense intended but I think Cesar Milan is a big meanie.

Megatron is a gorgeous boy!

We don't take our dogs to dog parks, even though there are plenty of them in my county. Too many irresponsible owners. Haven't heard about issues w/free range children, though.

[lph]

XMc etc (yoicks, that's a hard username to remember :-) ) I hope you don't take offense, because I don't mean any, but part of the "problem" may be that you don't like kids. For the record, I "don't like kids" in general either, ie. I have little tolerance for the annoying sides of small kid behaviour, but having had one I understand them a whole lot better. They're not that different from dogs, actually :p

I won't draw the parallell too far, but kids running around are a part of society, just like dogs are, and you can't avoid kids completely anymore than dogphobics can expect to never meet dogs. And just like dogs enjoy a bit of freedom, kids do too. Also, kids grow up to be reasonable human beings, and you can have a positive impact on that. No matter the legal consequences (which I find mind-blowing, to be honest), if you can find a way to interact with these kids in a good way, so that they have a positive and safe AND responsible experience of meeting your dog, that's one less dog-phobic in the world. That's one heck of a (gorgeous!) huge dog you have there, and I'm not sure that a frazzled mom out with her kids in a park that has a dog area is completely expecting something the size of a horse galloping around. Most parents do care about disciplining and controlling their children, just not in a situation that they perceive as frightening, then all they care about is keeping them safe.

Just a few thoughts. I hope you work it out somehow.

[crazycanuck]

Sorry, long post

XM...Megatron's cute & if I met him in a park or beach, i'd first think.."hmm, big dog, will it slobber all over me and want to say hello?" or ???

I too don't like kids and it freaks me out when i take Yukon to (one of many in Perth, a very long city) the doggie (ie non leash beach w doggie doo bags) and see the following:

People without doggies(and pay close attention to this) but will toddlers walking along the dog beach....There are many many many normal non dog beaches near our fave dog beach and don't understand what they're doing there??? Doggies running everywhere..

Last weekend, I think one parent got the message when I appeared very worried thier small child was toodling as yukon was just coming out of the water to bring me her ball. I noticed they had the little on on thier shoulders afterwards.

People swimming in the doggie beach area...without doggies with them. ??? There's an area further down the lonnnnnng beach that's for humans to swim in...

I know it's an odd example but when i'm at the doggie beach, i don't let Yukon go anywhere near children. I scan the beach and place our stuff where no kids are wandering.

Also, when i venture to a normal beach that eventually intersects w a dog beach, i'm aware there are doggies around and give them room. I think most people figure that out...

[sfa]

I like kids AND dogs (why does that seem to be so rare?) and have some of both living in my home. With dogs, I tend to think the bigger the better (we'd have an Irish wolfhound if we had the space), but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be afraid - even people who love dogs - when a carnivore roughly the size of a Clydesdale (relatively speaking--a Great Dane to a five year old is going to seem the size of a large horse to an adult) bounds up, knocks you over, and puts his teeth on you. It doesn't matter if your dog is friendly and gentle--someone meeting him for the first time doesn't know that. And even a friendly and gentle giant can be overwhelming.

While the dog is just acting his age, so are the kids, and both need to be taught the correct way to act around the other. I'm all in favor of teaching kids who aren't your own how to behave around dogs--absolutely encourage them to not run around, how to approach a strange dog safely, etc. But at the same time, I don't think a dog who hasn't yet learned to NOT run into people and to not ever "mouth" people should be off leash in a public place. Playful tousling with other dogs is fine; playful tousling with unknown people is not fine. Until your dog gets that distinction, I'd stay away from the dog park.

It may not seem fair, but that's how it is. Just like when you have kids you learn to stay away from certain places until they have the ability to behave properly there--people are right to complain when someone brings a wiggly and loud toddler to the symphony. It's not relevant that the toddler is only acting her age--she hasn't learned how to behave at the symphony. Take her home, let her grow up a bit, start taking her to kid-friendly concerts, and maybe when she's 8 or 9 she can sit through a Beethoven piano concerto. But maybe she won't be ready for that until she's 12. And some kids may NEVER have the ability to sit through a concert like that. You play the hand you're dealt (ask me about my son and the Ikea play area--no matter how hard we try, no matter how much time we spend "training" him, he'll never be allowed to play there. Is it fair? It doesn't seem so to us, but it's fair in the larger sense, and it's what we have to deal with).

In your case you have a large breed dog who isn't picking up on certain aspects of his training. In a smaller dog, people might be willing to give this behavior a pass--everyone knows that if push comes to shove you can pick up a 14 pound dog and punt him like a football. But you can't do that to a 140 pound dog, and everyone knows if push comes to shove that dog can rip out your throat and no one would be able to stop him, so of course there's a higher standard of behavior expected of him. Is that fair? Kind of like the Ikea example, it may not seem so to you, but it is in the larger scheme of things, and it's the hand you were dealt, so you have to put up with it.

Sarah

[tongue_tied]

I had a pitbull that I'd take to the dog park. Just the sight of a pitbull sends people running the other way. We'd take her to the dog park and she got to socialize with other dogs. Of course, parents were more leery, would try to keep their kids away, and we'd pick up on this and try to steer her to other dogs instead. Fair enough. However, I think everyone's at risk at a dog park. Dogs are at risk of getting roughed up by other dogs, children are at risk of getting roughed up by dogs, etc. I don't have kids, but I imagine that if I did, and I brought them to the dog park, that I'd be assuming at least partial responsibility for my child's behavior. Just like if I took my kid to the playground and the kid gets roughed up by another kid, because they were playing around, because that's what kids do.

Just my two cents.

[Koronin]

I do not like kids. I like dogs ok, but am not a dog person by any means. I am a cat person. IMO, the kids should not be running around a dog park. The parents SHOULD be watching them. However, dogs also should not be jumping on or mouthing people.

[malkin]

I like kids and dogs, but I have issues with irresponsible parents and dog owners.

[Biciclista]

You know, bottom line, it doesn't matter if you like or dislike kids or dogs. what matters is responsibility. And I don't need to be a lawyer to understand the possible ramifications of an uncontrolled meeting between an excited 140 pound carnivorous animal and a 40 pound minor child.
And if I was the owner of that dog, whether I loved him or not, I would suffer the consequences.. and that could be heart breaking and/or expensive.

[Eden]

I'm not a dog person and as such I would never hang around an off leash area (though I do have to pass through a place on my commute that many people illegally use as one - but that's a different topic).... but as a child sized adult, you bet I would really freak if a dog that outweighed me by 40 or so pounds jumped on me and put its mouth on me - teeth or not...

Since it is impossible to remove the children from the dog park, I'd have to agree with sfa - until the puppy is trained that humans are strictly forbidden, no off leash time. That doesn't have to mean no dog park - just no off leash until good behavior is learned.

[Selkie]

I like kids and dogs, but I have issues with irresponsible parents and dog owners.

Exactly. Caveat: I like well-behaved kids and dogs whose parents have taught them manners.

[Biciclista]

I like kids and dogs, but I have issues with irresponsible parents and dog owners.

yep me too.

[ivorygorgon]

I completely agree with the above post. My biggest concern is for the safety of your dog. People can be very malicious and your dog is at risk. If ANYTHING happens to someone's child, you and Megatron WILL be held responsible and Megatron's life could be at risk. I work for a personal injury attorney and I see this every day. People come in to my office demanding dogs be "put down," all time time. Even if the people were stupid.

Our old dog, who has since passed away, was very timid around strangers and didn't like kids, unfortunately he also very cute and looked very approachable. People would let their kids run up to him, without asking, all the time. Even when he was on a leash! It always freaked him out and put the child at risk. So people are not usually very dog savvy, even when they own a dog, and they are litigious.

I know you don't want your right to be in the park and your freedom curtailed, but you also want to protect your lovely Megatron.