Steel mountain bike?

[Catrin]

I am not buying another bike this year :) However next year I am considering a mountain bike in the late spring. I know I want steel, outside of that I've a lot of research to do over the winter. I don't want to spend a large amount of money, something that will be a good bike to learn on next summer. I suspect there won't be too many rock gardens in my future next summer, just learning basic mtn biking skills.

Suggestions in a good beginners steel mountain bike to give me a starting point?

[indysteel]

Before you go too far down this path, I would have a candid conversation with Jonathan--who is an expert MTBer--about whether any of your physical issues, namely your arthritic hands, will be a significant issue for mountain biking. I'm somewhat concerned that they'll be a very limiting factor to your ability to get out of the saddle, jump, hop, etc. My somewaht limited understanding is that it's just.a much more physical discipline.

Now I say that as a non MTBer, so take it for what it's worth. In the very least, I'd consider renting a MTB before you put moeny on the table for one to make sure it's for you.

[Catrin]

Good thought, I will do that. I've not had any grip/pain problems at all with my mountain bars - not even when I was on the bike for 6 hours. Of course, that was on the road. I am seeing Jonathan next Friday on another matter.

[indysteel]

Good thought, I will do that. I've not had any grip/pain problems at all with my mountain bars - not even when I was on the bike for 6 hours. Of course, that was on the road. I am seeing Jonathan next Friday on another matter.

The position and bars themselves won't pose the problem. Having to stand, pull up on the bars, or otherwise maneuver while out of the saddle might, however.

[Cataboo]

There's usually places with single track that isn't very technical that would still be fun.

I know gunnar makes steel mountain bikes.Surly's got the instigator or the karate monkey,things like that... Rawlands has a steel frame that can be built up as a mountain bike, but I think the top tube is going to be too long.

Given the suspension that is on mountain bikes - I don't think it's really necessary to have a steel one instead of an aluminum. If you're planning on riding rigid than it makes more of a difference.

I would just get a hard tail if I was you - it really requires an investment of a lot of cash to get a lightweight full suspension bike - the cheaper ones are heavy, andI don't see the point pedaling a 30+ bike up obstacles. However, maybe a full suspension would be better for your wrists/hands.

Do you have friends that you could borrow their mountain bikes for a bit?

If you want to go further - there's titanium. Litespeed makes nice titanium mountain bikes.

Marin used to make nice steel frame bikes, you could consider picking up a used marin,probably about a 14" frame.

[SadieKate]

Why do you want steel?

If it's is to provide more cushion for your hands, buying an absolutely lush fork like a dual-air Reba is the way to go.

[Catrin]

Why do you want steel?

If it's is to provide more cushion for your hands, buying an absolutely lush fork like a dual-air Reba is the way to go.

I hate the aluminum buzz - and I notice it a LOT. So if I get a hard tail like I am thinking then steel would be my choice. I also like steel in general because it can be repaired...so that would probably also be my preference for a FS bike - but I can change my mind on that one. The Karate Monkey, unless I am mistaken, is only a 29er - at my height I think that would be difficult - but time will tell. I will check into the Instigator - hadn't noticed that one before.

Assuming no physical issues that might keep me from trying out mountain biking, it would be nice to get something good enough to learn on that would last me for a few years without spending big bucks. At this point I would certainly lean towards a hard tail - though Cataboo's point about a full suspension being kinder on my hands is well taken.

I am still working on the ABC's of cycling, I only have 1,600 miles under my belt and most of that has been since June :) My skills certainly aren't there, yet, to try it out, but I am thinking about it. I do love long-distance road cycling, but mountain biking also looks like a lot of fun of a very different kind - and NO cars :D

Thankfully both my fitter and my personal trainer are both expert mountain bikers - so there is a physical limitation for me eventually trying this they will NOT be shy about telling me :)

[Cataboo]

Catrin, as someone who really won't ride aluminum on road because my wrists go numb in 2 seconds flat - I don't actually notice aluminum buzz while mountain biking. And that's with not very high end forks. I really think that with a good aluminum mountain bike, you're not going to notice. Yes - steel can be repaired, but usually what ends up broken or messed up on a mountain bike is a rear derailleur hanger, and that's one that is replaceable. And - my bf has aluminum mountain bikes that he's ridden the **** out of that are over 10 years old - I think he's doing way more log hopping, creek hopping, or whatever than you will ever do - and the frames have never needed repair.

[Catrin]

Catrin, as someone who really won't ride aluminum on road because my wrists go numb in 2 seconds flat - I don't actually notice aluminum buzz while mountain biking. And that's with not very high end forks. I really think that with a good aluminum mountain bike, you're not going to notice...

Cool - this is good information to have, thanks! That certainly does broaden the possibilities :cool:

[Cataboo]

Cool - this is good information to have, thanks! That certainly does broaden the possibilities :cool:

I do use ergon grips on my mountain bike - and generally it's not having a death grip on your handlebars that helps your wrists mountain biking. But in general, mountain biking is just different from road riding - it's very changeable, it's not constantly pedaling and constantly holding the handlebars - on a flat or a downhill, you're not pedaling much or at all, you're just steering the bike. The uphills are steep and rockier, so you're pedaling then.

This may just be my impression, 'cause I'm not terribly great at mountain biking - but if I pedal on a flat or downhill, I gain too much speed that I can't deal with tight turns or obstacles.

[SadieKate]

Except for bamboo and wood, I think I've used bikes made from every material and a properly built mtb frame doesn't have aluminum buzz.

The material of the bars is more important than the material of the frame. For instance, you will find carbon or ti or light aluminum bars to be better than steel bars for reducing buzz. Additionally, the sweep back angle of the bars can be critical to reducing hand/wrist pain. I only use bars with a 9-11 degree sweep due to wrist pain.

Tire and fork pressure make a big impact.

Don't get stuck on the material. Focus on design and functionality, and proper pressure.

[SadieKate]

This may just be my impression, 'cause I'm not terribly great at mountain biking - but if I pedal on a flat or downhill, I gain too much speed that I can't deal with tight turns or obstacles.Try looking further ahead! ;)

I think Irulan said it best once. Something along the lines of "if you learn to brake properly, you'll ride faster." I think she's the one who said it (at least I'll give her the credit) and it's very true - but you have to look ahead and anticipate.

[Cataboo]

Try looking further ahead! ;)

I think Irulan said it best once. Something along the lines of "if you learn to brake properly, you'll ride faster." I think she's the one who said it (at least I'll give her the credit) and it's very true - but you have to look ahead and anticipate.

I'm working on it - way faster than I used to be.

[Becky]

Salsa! I love mine.... I also second the suggestion for handlebars with 10* of sweep or more.

[Irulan]

I'm working on it - way faster than I used to be.

well its like this... if you are riding so fast that you are having a hard time slowing down for obstacles, sevaral things can happen.

1. Brake check that turns into an endo. If you are at a speed that you can do controlled/modulated braking at, you'll be much less likely to do a brake check (which can easily turn into an endo)

2. Braking from too high a speed approaching a corner creates brake bumps in the trail. These suck; they are like washboards on a dirt road. You can tell a trail that has too many beginners and/or out of control riders on it by the braking bumps. As a trail builder I get annoyed by this.

If you need ideas how to develop your braking and speed control skills there is a wealth of knowledge with the riders here.

[eofelis]

I know gunnar makes steel mountain bikes.Surly's got the instigator or the karate monkey,things like that... Rawlands has a steel frame that can be built up as a mountain bike, but I think the top tube is going to be too long.


Marin used to make nice steel frame bikes, you could consider picking up a used marin,probably about a 14" frame.

I did some looking around the past year for small size steel hardtails.

Gunnar Rockhounds come in a 13" but the frame alone is $800. Used ones come up infrequently (I keep a constant watch on ebay for small steel frames [just too see if anything interesting pops up :D ].)

I ended up buying a new 13" Jamis Dragon complete for $1k. It was an '09 model at a pretty good discount.

Surly just came out with a hardtail frame for a geared bike (in contrast to the 1x1 frame for a fixed gear hardtail). I'm not sure how they are, but they look kewl.

[Catrin]

....
I ended up buying a new 13" Jamis Dragon complete for $1k. It was an '09 model at a pretty good discount...

I have heard good things about the Jamis Dragon, know several who have one. I guess they use Reynolds 843 steel for it's weight and strength. Niners use the same steel, but of course they are all 29ers - which I suspect are all too large for me.

There is a Midwestern Women's Mountain Bike clinic next June in Brown County State Park - and many of the women who come are either at the beginner level or have never been on a mountain bike before. They also have free mountain bike rentals if you register early enough and they have certified and professional instructors. I am thinking this would be the best/safest way for me to get a taste of things.

They start with a "fun skills assessment" to make sure you are with the right group. My fitter is one of the instructors, so he told me all about it. From the sound of the clinic, it would also enhance my road cycling skills - a winner all the way around!

Surlypacer, I see you have a Gunnar Sport as well as the LHT. How do they compare with each other? Is the Gunnar Sport a full touring bike like the LHT or is it different?

[indysteel]

The clinic sounds like the way to go. I can't tell you how overjoyed Brian would be if I took that myself. He'd love to MTB with me, but being the Nervous Nelly that I am, I have long thought that it just wasn't the sport for me, although my road skills are just fine.

Hmmmmm. Food for thought.

[Irulan]

Maybe a clinic would give you some confidence. I've said it a hundred times. The basic skill set for mountain biking is simple to learn, yet for a lot of folks it's not intuitive. You don't have to be all aggro and all that to enjoy trail riding. I've seen gals go from completely freaked out about riding over a foam noodle to totally confident beginners in a matter of hours.

[indysteel]

Maybe a clinic would give you some confidence. I've said it a hundred times. The basic skill set for mountain biking is simple to learn, yet for a lot of folks it's not intuitive. You don't have to be all aggro and all that to enjoy trail riding. I've seen gals go from completely freaked out about riding over a foam noodle to totally confident beginners in a matter of hours.

You're probably right. Generally speaking, I'm an athletic person, but there are a few things that easily freak me out. I love to hike, for instance, but I'm very extremely afraid of falling, slipping, tripping, etc. That's why I've always assumed that I just wasn't mentally set up for MTBing.

[Catrin]

For me the clinic gives me a safe place to learn the basics - while the skill set might be "simple" the odds of my getting hurt by heading out there to learn on my own are pretty high...

Indy, it sounds like we both could benefit from this - and with Jonathan as one of the instructors that says very good things about the caliber of the instructors!

[indysteel]

I think his wife, Tonya, teaches it, too. Either one would make a great instructor.

[Catrin]

Apparently Scott also teaches at the clinic - the head wrench at the store. The more I find out about this clinic the more interested I become. Depending on the sponsors they find next year, they may be able to offer free mountain bike rentals for those who register early enough. That would be ideal because it would give me an opportunity to try it before actually going to the expense of buying a mountain bike first.

Jonathan doesn't think my hands will present a problem as long as the fit is right - he finds mountain biking kinder to the body in certain ways than road biking. Interesting comment! He is already kind of prodding me into the full suspension direction.

[WindingRoad]

Catrin - suggestion for you; go rent a mountain bike and go with someone who has a little experience; My suggestion is ask Tanya, she helps instruct at the Midwest MB Womens clinic. She is very nice and willing to help a girl out which is awesome. :D

If I were you I would go full suspension. It's sooooo much easier on the body. Yes it is heavier but personally I would rather have the more comfortable ride. IMO.

[Catrin]

Catrin - suggestion for you; go rent a mountain bike and go with someone who has a little experience; My suggestion is ask Tanya, she helps instruct at the Midwest MB Womens clinic. She is very nice and willing to help a girl out which is awesome. :D

If I were you I would go full suspension. It's sooooo much easier on the body. Yes it is heavier but personally I would rather have the more comfortable ride. IMO.

I don't know Tanya :( Are you talking about Jonathan's wife? I will keep this in mind though - once my leg has fully recovered :D

I do think that Ms. Explorer would like to try some simple dirt trails though - I know she can handle that. As far as FS is concerned, if I do go this direction then a full suspension bike would probably be kinder to my 51 year old joints (birthday next week).

[Aggie_Ama]

I was timid about starting mountain biking because of crashing and you may do it. But once you get a grip on the basic skills you will likely not fall. It is really fun and although at times frustrating it is a really awesome feeling to keep progressing. Finding a group or clinic you feel comfortable in reaching out of your comfort zone can really teach you a lot. I learned so much once I found one and found a discipline I love plus an amazing group of friends. :)

[tjuillerat]

I don't know Tanya :( Are you talking about Jonathan's wife? I will keep this in mind though - once my leg has fully recovered :D

I do think that Ms. Explorer would like to try some simple dirt trails though - I know she can handle that. As far as FS is concerned, if I do go this direction then a full suspension bike would probably be kinder to my 51 year old joints (birthday next week).

I'm always happy to ride with anyone! Timing can sometimes be tricky with the little one, but with enough warning and I can find a sitter and hit the trails. I'm usually free on Wednesdays if that would ever work for you.

I too would suggest a FS. After years of riding horses and getting beat up with a bad back, I would not trade in my FS for anything. I started out on a hardtail (only cause I didn't know any better) but switched to a FS after about year and have loved every minute of it. HTs are great for learning to pick your lines, but the FS is definitely more friendly to the body.

Shoot me an email any time (tania at sub-9 dot com) or send me a message here. I hope to see some of you at the Midwest Women's Clinic in June.

Cheers,
~Tania

[kimikaw]

Catrin,

I'm going to also suggest you look closely at a FSR. Same age as you, and after riding both a 29er HT and the demo Trek FSR that it feels better on my body with the FSR. Esp over rocks, roots and the like that WI trails are covered with. And being sensitive to vibration/buzz, the full suspension pretty much removes.

I know they are a bit heavier - but in my case realize taking 30lbs off of me would more than solve that issue.

I'm fairly tall (5'8") but short reached, making me lean to WSD. The other issue is the WSD specific brake levers - smaller, easier to use. But who knows. One thing with MTB is not really gripping the bars, and feathering the brakes with a single finger (I keep thumb and trigger finger on the shifters, middle and ring on the brake lever). Could actually be easier for arthritic hands. Dunno.

In addition to their demo teams, I'm pretty sure both Trek and Specialized have demo/short term rent programs. Plus at least in these parts, several LBS offer weekend/day rentals. May give you a better feel for what you really want. I'm currently lusting after a Specialized Safire WSD....but the new Salsa full suspension 29er (Spearfish) has me interested. Won't be doing anything this year, but am pretty sure down the road there will be a FSR MTB in my stable.

[Catrin]

I'm always happy to ride with anyone! Timing can sometimes be tricky with the little one, but with enough warning and I can find a sitter and hit the trails. I'm usually free on Wednesdays if that would ever work for you.

I too would suggest a FS. After years of riding horses and getting beat up with a bad back, I would not trade in my FS for anything. I started out on a hardtail (only cause I didn't know any better) but switched to a FS after about year and have loved every minute of it. HTs are great for learning to pick your lines, but the FS is definitely more friendly to the body.

Shoot me an email any time (tania at sub-9 dot com) or send me a message here. I hope to see some of you at the Midwest Women's Clinic in June.

Cheers,
~Tania

Thanks for the note Tania! Your husband left no doubt on his preference for FS over hard tails when we discussed this during a fitting appointment Thursday.

Let me get this leg healed, and if we can get our schedule together, the weather is nice and a rental bike available, then it would be great if we could head out to give me a taste of what this is like. I want to make sure this leg is healed before I throw anything new at it so we may need to wait for spring. I just want to try this before I start considering a purchase, and it doesn't seem wise to do it by myself :)

Kimikaw - for some reason I had a much easier time with bike fit with my LHT than I did the Trek WSD that I sold. Currently am leaning toward a Jamis or Niner if I do eventually proceed with this. I like the idea of a 29er if we can get one that fits me properly. Thankfully my LBS does demo bikes so I am sure something can be worked out when the time comes. A sizable deposit that is refunded is certainly a better option than buying something that might not work for me :eek:

[sundial]

But once you get a grip on the basic skills you will likely not fall.

Oh I dunno, seems like a mud treatment is in order on my rides. ;) :D

Catrin, maybe you can schedule a private lesson and rent a bike? Your LBS may have several test mtbs that you can borrow for a trail ride to determine which kind you like. Also....there are other places to ride your mtb besides the trail. ;) Gravel roads can provide a great workout with fewer obstacles to negotiate. Gravel grinder rides are becoming more and more popular and several bike manufacturers are developing mtbs for that very purpose. Salsa developed the Vaya and Fargo to meet the demand.

[indysteel]

Tania,

Thanks for chiming in on this thread. Sorry we all spelled your name wrong!

I'll personally give some thought to the June clinic. It's definitely something I'd like to try.

[eofelis]

I have heard good things about the Jamis Dragon, know several who have one. I guess they use Reynolds 843 steel for it's weight and strength.

Surlypacer, I see you have a Gunnar Sport as well as the LHT. How do they compare with each other? Is the Gunnar Sport a full touring bike like the LHT or is it different?

My Jamis Dragon is 531 steel. Either the older models or the higher end models are 853 steel.

The Gunnar Sport is much more like a road bike than a full touring bike. It has the relaxed geometry like a touring bike (very long wheel base, slacker angles to seat tube and head tube) but it has a lighter weight frame (853 or OX platinum steel) and is built with road bike components. It's a luxo sport touring bike, extremely comfy ride.

The LHT is very comfy, and will carry anything I can manage to strap on it, but is like a tank - slow and heavy. I think my LHT rides better with a full load on it.

[Catrin]

My Jamis Dragon is 531 steel. Either the older models or the higher end models are 853 steel.

The Gunnar Sport is much more like a road bike than a full touring bike. It has the relaxed geometry like a touring bike (very long wheel base, slacker angles to seat tube and head tube) but it has a lighter weight frame (853 or OX platinum steel) and is built with road bike components. It's a luxo sport touring bike, extremely comfy ride.

The LHT is very comfy, and will carry anything I can manage to strap on it, but is like a tank - slow and heavy. I think my LHT rides better with a full load on it.

Thanks for the comparison on the Gunnar Sport and the LHT. I love Ms. Explorer - and it sounds like the Sport might be a nice choice as a go-faster bike should I go with Gunnar rather than Luna.

[eofelis]

Thanks for the comparison on the Gunnar Sport and the LHT. I love Ms. Explorer - and it sounds like the Sport might be a nice choice as a go-faster bike should I go with Gunnar rather than Luna.

The smallest stock Gunnar Sport frames have 650c size wheels (not 700c size wheels). Gunnar frames cost around $800 retail for stock sizes. They will make custom geometry sizes of their frames for $300 more. So $1100 is not a bad price for a custom steel frame, compared to other custom frame prices out there.

If you are fitting well on a Surly LHT, you might consider a Pacer for a road frame.

My Gunnar Sport is a custom geometry frame, it's a 50cm effective top tube size with 700c size wheels. I was thinking of getting a custom Gunnar in this size, but then this one that was some else's custom size came up on ebay, and it just happened to be the size I need......:D

[Catrin]

The smallest stock Gunnar Sport frames have 650c size wheels (not 700c size wheels). Gunnar frames cost around $800 retail for stock sizes. They will make custom geometry sizes of their frames for $300 more. So $1100 is not a bad price for a custom steel frame, compared to other custom frame prices out there.

If you are fitting well on a Surly LHT, you might consider a Pacer for a road frame.

My Gunnar Sport is a custom geometry frame, it's a 50cm effective top tube size with 700c size wheels. I was thinking of getting a custom Gunnar in this size, but then this one that was some else's custom size came up on ebay, and it just happened to be the size I need......:D

Thanks for this information - I want lighter steel than is available for the Pacer. That is why I will go with either a Luna or custom Gunnar for a road bike. I am really looking forward to trying out mountain biking though - and if I do like it then that bike will come before a light steel road bike.

[indysteel]

Tania (or anybody else who knows the answer),

When does registration typically begin for the clinic? Is there a mailing list or listserve that I could get onto so that I would receive any information about the clinic?

Thanks!

[Catrin]

Tania (or anybody else who knows the answer),

When does registration typically begin for the clinic? Is there a mailing list or listserve that I could get onto so that I would receive any information about the clinic?

Thanks!

I know there is a website for it here (http://midwestwomensclinic.com/), if there is another resource for information it would be great information to have.

[indysteel]

I know there is a website for it here (http://midwestwomensclinic.com/), if there is another resource for information it would be great information to have.

I was aware of the website, but it doesn't indicate when registration begins. Not that I expected it to since the clinic isn't until June. That's why I wanted to get on an email list if one exists.

[Catrin]

I was aware of the website, but it doesn't indicate when registration begins. Not that I expected it to since the clinic isn't until June. That's why I wanted to get on an email list if one exists.

That makes sense, and I would as well. It sounds like a lot of fun and would be quite beneficial!

[kimikaw]

I've got my eye on the Midwest Women's Mountain Bike Clinic, too, and did find what appears to be a sign-up for the clinic newsletter (and possibly others from the event company, dunno). A bit buried, but on the left side of the contact page.

http://midwestwomensclinic.com/contact.html

[indysteel]

Awesome! Thanks!

[Catrin]

I've got my eye on the Midwest Women's Mountain Bike Clinic, too, and did find what appears to be a sign-up for the clinic newsletter (and possibly others from the event company, dunno). A bit buried, but on the left side of the contact page.

http://midwestwomensclinic.com/contact.html

Awesome, thanks! I had looked but somehow missed the link before. I have heard of Sub-9 before, they are at least a promoter of MTB events in Indiana and the Midwest. I just visited their site and found my fitter and his wife's name on the main page :cool:

[limewave]

Thanks for the comparison on the Gunnar Sport and the LHT. I love Ms. Explorer - and it sounds like the Sport might be a nice choice as a go-faster bike should I go with Gunnar rather than Luna.

I don't have much to add other than DH has a Gunnar. He's had it for 12+ years and its still his favorite bike to ride on the trails.
:)

[Catrin]

I don't have much to add other than DH has a Gunnar. He's had it for 12+ years and its still his favorite bike to ride on the trails.
:)


Good to know this, thanks! I have heard many good things about Gunnar. With Margo not taking any new orders, at least for now, I may well wind up with a Gunnar (at least for a go-faster road bike). Time will tell on the mountain bike.

[tjuillerat]

Tania (or anybody else who knows the answer),

When does registration typically begin for the clinic? Is there a mailing list or listserve that I could get onto so that I would receive any information about the clinic?

Thanks!

Looks like you found the info! Registration normally starts in March, but if I open it any earlier I will be sure to post here. A newsletter will also go out for when registration begins.

If you're on Facebook, you can also keep tabs at www.facebook.com/midwestwomensclinic.

[kimikaw]

Tania,

Do you have the dates set for the 2011 clinic weekend? Would love to be able to get on calendar.....

[tjuillerat]

Tania,

Do you have the dates set for the 2011 clinic weekend? Would love to be able to get on calendar.....

I just submitted the event permit application for the weekend of June 11-12, 2011.