To be aggressive or not?

[XMcShiftersonX]

Today I took my 4 year old black cat into the vet for his annual exam and vaccinations. He seems to be behaving the same as usual - I thought he was maybe a little thinner than normal, but that was about it.

The vet did say he was a pound lighter. He also had dandruff, which she said would be re-mediated with a food that had higher fatty acid levels. We had been experimenting with some new foods, but I think we'll go back to Avoderm, which is really good for the coat and what the cats had been on initially. I'll also be feeding them more to fatten them up a little.

But then, the vet also noticed my cat had a heart murmur. She said it's rarely benign and most commonly hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. But that the only way to know for sure is to have an ultrasound of the heart done, which runs around $400. She said there's a specialist that comes to the area about once a month and does it, if I was interested.

She said that usually we don't start treating this condition until the animal goes into heart failure but that she's been following the work of a doctor in Texas who has had success in treating this condition with a specific medication regimen, and that many cats have gone on to live 15-16 years.

I don't know how I feel about this. I've always been for treating specific incidences, but I've never had an animal with a chronic condition. I don't know that I feel it's right to treat animals with chronic conditions - forcing them to take meds all the time, bringing them in for tests frequently. Maybe without that they'll live shorter lives, but they'll be happier ones? If I thought my animals were suffering I would put them to sleep. I've had to do this with two previous cats one with end stage FIP, and the other with end stage cancer (their illnesses showed themselves pretty suddenly and we didn't know they were sick until there was nothing we could do about it). Right now Colbert seems his normal self - he plays with the other cats, has a good appetite, etc.

My husband doesn't trust vets, and told me he's, "not going to be one of those crazy people with drugged up animals."

Then there's the financial concern - $400 is a lot of money for one test. I can work overtime to pay for it though. I'm not sure what the medication regime would look like either.

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what's too much or not enough in this case. Right now the vet wants me to start him on 1/4th of a baby aspirin every three days to prevent blood clots because of the murmur.

Any advice?

Thanks,
Jessica

[badger]

I'm sorry your kitty's sick :(

It's always difficult to say what one should do/shouldn't when it comes to medical issues with their pets. Some people would rather let them live out their natural lives until they are no longer enjoying life. Others will move heaven and earth to keep their animals alive. It's a fine line, but ultimate it's a personal decision.

When I found out earlier in the year that my 11 year old had hyperthyroidism, I was hit with either medicating him for the rest of his life, or doing the radioactive iodine treatment, which will cure him. The only caveat is that the iodine treatment is $1500. This cat is super duper special to me, and I love him dearly. He also didn't tolerate the meds very well and vomited often. So, for me, as much as I hated to spend $1700 (including taxes), I knew I wouldn't be able to forgive myself to watch him slowly deteriorate in front of my eyes. It's not a nice condition to have.

Some would call me stupid for spending that kind of money, but if my car needed a new clutch for $1700, I would do it because I had to. How could I spend that kind of money for a depreciating hunk of metal and not on a living creature that I love tremendously?

Sorry for the long reply, but I guess ultimately you have to do what you feel is right. The other cats' conditions didn't become known until late because cats have an extremely high tolerance to pain and animals generally hide their illness until it's too late. I never would have known about my cat's condition if I didn't do a random blood panel just out of my own curiosity.

[zoom-zoom]

Badger is wise. We also have a hyperthyroid kitty. Lola was diagnosed at about 15 and will be 17 on Halloween. She has been on meds for a couple of years now, but she LOVES her thyroid meds in a Pill Pocket. She sits by the drawer where we keep the meds and yowls at us every night for her pill. Funny stuff. Lola was our first baby and we know that each birthday could be her last. But as long as she is comfortable and happy we will do what we can to keep her around. She still has great quality of life for an elderly furbaby.

[XMcShiftersonX]

Thank You. I appreciate your response. Colbert is a momma's boy :) It sounds to me that the medications he would be on, would be pills. If I could get him to swallow them without a struggle every time, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. I was thinking about the different illnesses cats get, and if it were something like diabetes where I would have to poke him all the time to check his blood sugars and then poke him again to give him insulin, I definitely wouldn't do it. I have a friend who does that with her cat, but for me, I would feel like I was hurting him all the time.

I just read an article about the condition and it said not to do anything to aggravate the condition - basically anything that will raise his heart rate - like stress, playing, etc. Well, I definitely will keep playing with him. He wants to play, and he's a young cat, I think it would be cruel to not let him play. But, now I know this could make him more sick. That's hard.

[pll]

This is a difficult and emotional predicament. My opinion won't make me popular, but here it is... bear in mind that I love animals, especially cats and dogs. The aspirin regime seems benign and affordable enough. From what I gather of your finances (the fact that you would work overtime to pay for the $400 test), I would not do the test, nor look into what might be potentially an expensive drug regime. Those $400 are best saved for a rainy day. Your cat's life might be shorter, but you also need to consider unexpected changes in your situation (health, employment) that you cannot predict and that require financial slack.

@badger: The comparison to a clutch is not a fair one. You mentioned you might changed the clutch because you had to... No car, perhaps translates into no means of transportation to work and replacing the clutch is a cheaper option to replacing the car?

[XMcShiftersonX]

pll - I should clarify, my husband and I make a good amount of money. I would work overtime to pay for this because we are paying off our debt aggressively while also saving for a house. So, we could pay less on some of those debts or put less in savings every month if we had to. Or, I could work some overtime and it wouldn't affect our financial situation at all, it would just be extra income. Also, with my husband not necessarily agreeing on doing this, I see it as my responsibility if I wanted to do it. I do see your point on how it may be better kept in savings for a rainy day though, and that certainly part of what makes this a hard decision.

[Aggie_Ama]

I did something similar for my dear Maggie Bear, the Schnauzer we lost last year. There was a lot of indicators that she might have Cushing's Disease and although the test was very pricey (I think $250 or so) I couldn't bear to not rule it out. She didn't have it but if she had and I didn't know it she would have a terrible quality of life. I am the worst to ask, we spent about $1,500 when her kidneys began failing hoping for a miracle and getting a precious four extra months. Would I do it again? Yes, I got to have more love and she was the sweetest dog ever, we fought to help her. However when she went blind and all tests would do is explain if a nerve separated (my vet's guess) we opted not to do it, we couldn't fix her vision. So if you can afford the test by making some sacrifices I would, my pets have helped me through many bad days so I do the same for them.

As for not trusting vets.... My DH's roommate in college became a vet. He explained to me (as has my own vet) the science is sometimes their own enemy. It is becoming more and more advanced, they have so many more options and so much more knowledge. It seems crazy what they have discovered, my vet is amazing in he will lay out the odds, the costs and what they know now. So yes sometimes I does feel like the are always grabbing our wallets but I truly believe my DH's friend and my vet that they just have so many things to offer that once were just not done.

[divingbiker]

I would ask the vet what the ongoing medication plan would be, and go to the pharmacy or check online to find out the costs, just so you know what you're getting into.

I adopted AJ two years ago knowing he had chronic heart disease (he died a week and a half ago.) Every year he had to go to the cardiologist for an echocardiogram. It was over $500 just to walk in the door. In the end he was on about six heart and blood pressure medications. I was afraid to add up the cost. Between the heart disease and his other ailments, it cost me thousands of dollars in the two years I had him, but I could afford it so I did it.

Bailey had chronic kidney disease for 7 years. He ate special food and took meds. Again, the specialist vet cost a bundle.

Personally, I couldn't ignore my pet's health problems. But dealing with chronic illness is draining, emotionally and financially.

[ccnyc]

Some info on heart disease, murmurs, etc. in cats and how to treat.
http://www.holisticat.com/hcm/All-Pages.html
HTH

[badger]

@badger: The comparison to a clutch is not a fair one. You mentioned you might changed the clutch because you had to... No car, perhaps translates into no means of transportation to work and replacing the clutch is a cheaper option to replacing the car?

I actually used that argument in my head when I was deciding to get Morley treated with radioactive iodine. I've had numerous bills relating to my older car, and I hated spending money on it but felt I had to. Sure, I could get rid of the car completely, but that's the cost of owning a car. Same with the cost of having pets. You have to realize that sometimes they can be costly, and you have to keep that in mind when you adopt one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to force people to do things they don't want to, it's completely their personal choice. My choice was to spend money to buy a few more years with my beloved cat. It wouldn't be everyone's choice, and I'm fully aware of that.

[marni]

I had a cat who was diagnosed with a heart murmur when he he was four. We had a scan to confirm it and then treated it with meidaction mixed with his food. We never did anything to restrict his activity but hwe was an indoor cat and defintely a lap sitter rather than a roustabout.

He lived until he was 14 and then we had him euthanized. He started having difficulty breathing, had lost weight and was not homself. He died in my arms.

Whatever you decide, do it with love and respect . My cats have always been a partof my family and I would not begrudge medical treatment if I thought it would make their life more tolerable. Death is a gift we can give our animals, as is an extension of life. LIsten to your heart and then your brain.

marni

[bmccasland]

XMc - What about putting your kitty back on food he likes, and the baby asprin, then see how he's doing in a month? Hold off on the ultrasound for now.

Not sure about kitties, but I had a dog diagnosed with a heart murmur around age 4 or 5 that her vet never suggested treatment because otherwise she was healthy. She had a good diet, silky coat, played hard without shortness of breath, and went for regular walks. It wasn't until the winter of her life, at age 15 that she started coughing and having the shortness of breath I was warned about, that she was finally put on heart meds.

Good luck. Your kitty is young, which is on your side. With food he likes, he might turn around. Or even some nice treats? ;)

[PamNY]

Today I took my 4 year old black cat into the vet for his annual exam and va I don't know that I feel it's right to treat animals with chronic conditions - forcing them to take meds all the time, bringing them in for tests frequently.

I'm sorry to hear about your kitty.

I don't see any ethical problem with treating a cardiac condition in a young cat. He may be annoyed by pills and vet visits, but he will get over it. Treating an animal who has no quality of life and no hope for improvement is another matter entirely, but you aren't in that situation.

You need a lot more information -- what meds, how much do they cost, and what are the side effects for starters. If you don't know how to pill a cat, you should learn.

I would want the ultrasound for my own curiosity and peace of mind. I'm glad that your vet is up-to-date on research.

The link ccnyc posted looks very helpful IMO. I had a dog on ACE inhibitors and Lasix for a time and he did very well. We used some of the supplements recommended and I think they helped.

ETA: If your cat ever needed surgery, your vet might not want to operate without clarification of his cardiac status. That's one reason to go ahead with testing and meds if needed. Of course I hope you don't have an emergency with him, but if you did, a heart problem might make things more complicated.

I had to spend around $2,000 (ultrasound and Holter monitor) on my dog before the cardiologist would clear him for surgery.

Good luck.

[roadie gal]

I'm sorry you have such a dilemma on your hands. I would go for the ultrasound. At least get an idea of what's going on. I would want to know if it's something minor that could easily be treated with medication and allow my kitty to have a normal life or a major cardiac disorder that would start affecting him sooner and would be harder to treat. Speaking for myself, I would want all of the information to make a better decision.

[JennK13]

I don't think it's fair to compare hyperthyroidism to a heart murmur. Hyperthyroidism will definitely affect a cat's quality of life if left untreated (having thyroid disease myself, I know!!!).
The heart murmur, on the other hand, depending on how serious it is, may shorten the cat's life as the heart may fail at any time. But if he's an indoor cat, and not overly active to the point activity would cause him problems, his quality of life should be fine.
It's my understanding that it can be controlled rather easily with medication, but a lot of animals don't like taking medicines. You wont know how your cat is until you try to do it. If he doesn't like it, and he's fine otherwise, I'm more along your initial thoughts of why make his life longer but worse? I'd rather he have a happy, stress free life, no matter how long it is, rather than him be uncomfortable for a longer period of time. Again, it depends on how bad it is and what symptoms you can expect. If it's something that's going to affect his quality of life, I'd treat him. If there's the potential his life may be shortened, but fine, I probably wouldn't do it. Going quickly due to a heart attack is a lot different than slowly suffering for a long time because of thyroid disease.

[malkin]

I'm sorry about your kitty's diagnosis. I wish you strength and peace with whatever you decide.

[blackhillsbiker]

The Pill Pockets were a godsend during the last months of our Scottie mix dog's life. I'm not sure how they'd work for a cat, but they would certainly be worth a try. You'll know when his quality of life is compromised. We had a dog when I was growing up who had a heart murmur and lived to be almost 16. We played with him all the time. He loved his squeekie ball. Do what is right for you and your family. With Arthur (the Scottie), DH and I sat down by ourselves and decided what steps we would and would not take.

Hugs!
Deb

[XMcShiftersonX]

Thanks everyone for all of your support and helping me think of all the options. My husband and I sat down and talked this morning about the situation. I showed him some articles I read about the condition and he looked into some other articles.

We decided we'll go ahead with giving him the aspirin as the vet prescribed to prevent blood clots, we'll monitor his weight and switch him back to his old food, just to make sure the weight loss isn't something more. We'll play with him and love him as usual (probably give him even more attention though :D).

But we won't get the ultrasound until he starts showing symptoms. I'll check with the vet to make sure I understood her correctly. It sounded to me like she said we don't start treating it until he goes into heart failure anyways. If I notice any symptoms, I'll take him in, but I think until then, I should just let him be a carefree kitty.

I have talked with some people who have had cats with heart murmurs and they had the ultrasound and it turned out to be a different condition, that didn't require treatment, and the animal lived a normal life.

My husband was worried this would be a repeat of our first kitty Ishmael. They didn't know what was wrong with him, but kept prescribing tests and medications - it ended up not helping him at all, in fact with some of the side effects, it made things worse, and because we were forcing him to take horrible medications three times a day, he never wanted to be around us. It was horrible. We finally got the diagnosis of FIP a few days before he died, and there was nothing to treat it with anyways. Hopefully he won't have any side effects from the Aspirin.

Here's a silly picture of the man we've been discussing... Affectionately known as "Colbert-Mofrair," "Colbert-a-saurus," "Batman," "Little Man," or "Little Fang."

-Jessica

[Koronin]

I'm sorry your kitty has a heart murmur. I know nothing about heart murmurs at all. My oldest cat, Tiger, has a health issue. Basically she will stop eating for no reason and we have to give her pills and force feed her. This has happened 4 times. Right now she is doing just fine and sitting with me right now as I type this. We were never able to figure out what the cause of this is. It had been like clock work just about every 6 months, then all of a sudden she's been fine for the past 2 years and our move hasn't bothered her at all. She also has a sensitive stomach, and we've only found a couple of foods she can eat without throwing up. They are on California Natural for this reason. As soon as we moved I went and found a vet here whom I like and am very happy with. (I still haven't found a dentist or doctor for me or hubby yet). Then another of our cats, Ariel, also has health issues. She has both allergies and kidney/bladder stones. She's on Royal Canin SO for the stones, but she's allergic to the corn in it. Go figure, so she gets a bath with an oatmeal foam every so often and that seems to work.

(I've spent several thousand dollars on Tiger over the years, and I truly don't want to know what the total amount has been. She's worth it though. She moved with me from Ohio to NC 10 yrs ago.)

I wish you and your kitty the best.

[PamNY]

Sounds like a reasonable decision. FIP is such a difficult disease -- there's no specific test. I can see why that experience would inspire caution.

Good luck to your kitty, who is adorable. My first cat was black, so I've always had a special fondness for them.

[XMcShiftersonX]

Good luck to your kitty, who is adorable. My first cat was black, so I've always had a special fondness for them.

Same with us! We got Ishmael who was our first black cat at 6 months old, he died from FIP at 9 month old. Then we got Vishnu at 1 1/2 years old and he died from Cancer at 2 years old. And now there's Colbert. Our other two cats are Bengals. I think I will always have a black cat though, even though they seem to have more health problems, there's something special about them. Below I've attached a picture of Ishmael and then Vishnu. :)

-Jessica

[JennK13]

Oh my gosh! I'm so sorry you guys have gone through losing two cats, so young and so quickly. Up until last year when my Hershey passed at the ripe age of 17, I've also always had a black cat. He was a beautiful black Persian. Hugs to you both, and your kitty. All we can do is love them while we have them, and make them as happy and comfortable as we can - even if that means doing nothing other than love them.

[XMcShiftersonX]

Thank you Jenn! I'm hoping someday I'll be able to have a kitty until their teenage years... I know they're supposed to live that long, I just don't have the best luck! Our other two cats are 6 and 5, though, and we've had them since they were kittens, so maybe there is hope!

[PamNY]

Below I've attached a picture of Ishmael and then Vishnu. :)-Jessica

That doorknob photo is priceless! Both are beautiful cats.

[XMcShiftersonX]

That doorknob photo is priceless! Both are beautiful cats.

Ha! Yeah, he was trying to make an escape! When we adopted him from the foster home he was staying at, he had a shaved leg and part of his tail. He had been hit by a car near where we used to live and the animal shelter paid for the surgeries to repair his broken leg and tail. I would try to cuddle him when we got him and he would hiss, bite and scratch me. About a month later he was a momma's boy:) We did use to take him out on leashed walks...