trek from local bike shop vs motobecane online

[callmej]

my friend is purchasing his first road bike. he's been riding an old huffy for a couple of months. he recently took a beach trip with his brother and rode a road bike for several days in a row and now has been bitten by the bug.

i've emphasized to him a number of things ad nauseum such as test ride a number of bikes and that fit is the most important thing, etc.....

he road a trek 2.3 (full 105 alum. with usual carbon parts) tonight and really liked it plus as a 2010 model it was on sale.

however, he is more inclined to buy a bike online and wants to get as much bike as he can for his money. i don't think he is really interested in test riding a bunch of bikes. he is looking at a motobecane full carbon with ultegra and 105 mix. the trek and the motobecane are almost identical in price.

i've compared the geometry on the two bikes and i think the motobecane will fit, but i for one just could not bring myself to buy a bike that i have not test ridden, nor one that i have never heard very much about. i think that he would be better served to buy from the local bike shop and get a good fit plus would get a bike with name recognition that he could more easily sell if decides to upgrade.

i guess what i am looking for here, is to see if any of you have an opinion or any experience with Motobecane that might lessen my concern about his buying online.

[7rider]

If he wants as much bike as he can for the money and the 2 bikes he's looking at are about the same price, then it seems a no-brainer to go with the local purchase. He'd get much more than a bike. He'd get a shop that would stand by what they sold him and be an ongoing resource for him as he learns and grows as a cyclist. I doubt the online retailer would do much more for him than take his credit card info.

[Trek-chick]

I have never bought a complete bike online. I agree with above poster about buying from the LBS. When I bought my Trek 520 at the LBS I actually drove 18 miles out of my way to go to the best bike shop around, even though there is a big Trek dealer right up my street 5 min. away! I always try to support the bike shops. A good quality bike shop is priceless.

[indysteel]

Suggest that he read reviews of the bike at www.roadbikereview.com. Motobecanes are typically reviewed, but it would be worthwhile to read reviews of the specific bike and retailer he's considering.

I generally like to support local shops, but I think he should get the bike that most excites him to ride. It is possible to build a relationship with a shop regardless of where you buy the bike. There are good and bad shops out there, so the mere fact that it's local doesn't necessarily sway me one way or another.

[Becky]

Has he factored in the cost to have the Motebecane assembled?

I'm not against buying bikes online. In fact, I've done it 3 times now. But it took me a long time to figure out what I liked fit-wise enough to be comfortable spending $1k+ based on the geometry charts. I also have the skills and tools to build a bike from scratch, so there's no additional cost there.

[Cataboo]

Ditto what Becky said - if you know what you're doing and either can assemble yourself or have a friend that can - you can get great prices for bikes online. If you don't know a lot about what geometry will fit you, then it can be an expensive mistake.

[SheFly]

We are lucky enough to also have the skills and knowledge to purchase bikes online and assemble/service ourselve (ok, not me, but DH :D). I have purchased entire bikes from an LBS, and online.

That said, many LBS's get a bit indignant about servicing a bike not purchased at their shop (especially if it was purchased online). Your friend should take that into consideration unless he is planning on building/servicing the bike himself.

And Motobecanes are relatively good bikes, and have gotten better in the past couple of years. i have a friend who is riding their 'cross bike this season and she loves it. Another friend has just purchased their titanium commuter, which we are also considering. There is nothing wrong with the brand itself.

SheFly

[indysteel]

Frankly, I don't understand the indignation, especially in this economy. I think it's incredibly shortsighted. If an LBS strives to provide good service to everyone who walks in the door regardless of where they bought their bikesn then they stand to make more money and build a good reputation. The shops around here thankfully don't cop that attitude, and I would take my business elsewhere if they did.

[ny biker]

The guys at my LBS don't mind servicing bikes bought elsewhere, but they charge less if you bought from them.

Add me to the list of people who prefer to ride the bike before buying it to make sure it fits.

[Eden]

The same price? Really?

I don't see a $1,600 CF bike on the Motobecan site, which is what Trek says is the MSRP for a 2.3 (much less the price for one on sale)

but anyway, my comment about Motobecan. One of the ways they save money and make their bikes look better is to put one high end component on them - usually a rear derailleur and then call it an "Ultegra" or "Dura Ace" equipped bike. The rest of the stuff is lower grade - usually the shifters are at least a grade down, the cranks are FSA, cheap brakes etc.

When you look at the Trek and they say its a 105 bike - its all 105.

Do you pay a bit for the Trek name? Probably, but Motobecan isn't as generous as they seem either.

[Cataboo]

I see a couple carbon fiber motorbecane'sfor cheaper than the trek:
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/immortalpro_09.htm
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/centurypro_carbon.htm

Op stated in the beginning that the motobecane is an ultegra/105 mix.


I think there are good bike shops and bad bike shops - and everyone's rosy picture where they buy a bike and have really good results and a happy relationship ever after doesn't always happen. IT didn't the one time i bought a bike at a local bike shop. But I've been lucky enough ever since to be able to do any work I needed or the BF can. So I've bought most of my bikes online ever since, and I'll unapologetically state that I've saved a ton of money. Op probably knows the bike shops around her and can recommend a good one to her friend.

I helped a friend last week - she just bought a new surly LHT from a LBS a couple weeks ago, and while being fit on it she told them that she didn't think she could use the brake levers, it was too long a reach - they said they thought it was fine, and she should ride it a while to try it out. She rode it a while, came back and told them it was too long a reach - they wanted to charge her $70 labor on top of the price of the new levers. So she bought the levers herself and I put them on for her. $70 to change brake levers on a bike that you've bought new from a shop is a bit much.

I will say that possibly local bike shops in the DC area can get away with things like that - because there are still a lot of people in the area who are making reasonable amounts of money and can afford bikes - and realize that they have to spend a lot of money on bikes and their upkeep.

[Eden]

I see a couple carbon fiber motorbecane'sfor cheaper than the trek:
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/immortalpro_09.htm
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/centurypro_carbon.htm

Op stated in the beginning that the motobecane is an ultegra/105 mix.


Ah - I was comparing list price to list price via the Trek and Motobecan web sites. I'm sure the Trek sells for less than list too...... (though half is probably pushing it a bit).

Like I said - you have to look carefully at what you actually get on the Motobecan - its not just a mix of Ultegra and 105. The rear derailleur and shifters are those - other parts are other stuff - low end Cane Creek brakes (their good brakes are good, the low end ones I had on a bike and hated), FSA cranks (can't comment on those).

I'm not sure why people expect free service at bike shops... You don't get free service at your auto dealer if you buy the part there...... The Maytag guy doesn't throw in the service on your washing machine for free just because you needed a part.... I can see if you get a brand new bike and you know you want different components *before* the bike is assembled that they shouldn't charge extra, but otherwise I think that expecting them to do free stuff for you is unfair.

[Cataboo]

Upgrading the brakes is probably $50-$100 ebay prices - I think it's about $35 for tiagra brakes on ebay, $50 for 105, and I'm not sure for ultegra. Brakes are something almost anyone should be able to swap, as long as they have allen wrenches.

FSA cranks - I've never had a problem with, it's been easier for me to find high end FSA cranks in 165mm than it has been to find them in shimano - so I've had carbon FSA cranks on almost all my bikes.

As for free service from bike shops - generally the argument in this thread is that you should buy the bike from the LBS, because after buying the bike from them, they're more likely to work with you to get it to fit you or give you deals on service. I'm just mentioning that that is not always the case. I do think that if you mention before buying a bike that you don't think a part will work, and you want it swapped out - and they assure you that it'll work or you should try it for a while - that they shouldn't charge a lot of labor later to make it right after you've bought the bike from them. Now I suppose if it could be that it would have been $100 labor if she hadn't bought the bike from them. Either way, it's a lot to pay for labor in a job that really doesn't take very long since they're brake levers and not brifters.

[Eden]

Whether or not you can change the components or if you like them is not relevant to my point.... my point only is that that while the Trek may have some $$$ added for the name, there are actual differences in the components. While Motobecan may have thrown on an Ultegra rear derailleur for the bling factor of being able to say its got Ultegra, they've cheaped out on some other components. Regular retail, the brakes and crank alone are worth about $200 less. The wheel set that is standard on the Trek has more value than the upgraded one on the Motobecan.

So they put the Motobecan drastically "on sale" and make it sound like a great deal, but if you look at it carefully, its not necessarily as great as they make it out to be. The biggest thing would be the frame alu vs carbon. Trek's comparable carbon model (the 3.1) which has very similar components (including the down graded cranks and wheels) has an MSRP that is actually a lot less than Motobecan lists for theirs..... On sale the Trek, especially now at the end of the year on a 2010 model, is probably pretty similar. In the end you usually get what you pay for. Sometimes you pay a bit more for a big name or a good reputation, but not as much as you might think.

Not that I'm in love with Trek, by no means.. I just think that Motobecan is misrepresenting themselves a bit by touting an "ultegra" bike by putting one or two small components on it in that range and by highly inflating their MSRP so that they can put it waaaaaaaay on sale.

[callmej]

I'm in awe of all the info this forum has provided. I'm just going to direct my friend here so he can read the replies for himself.

I wish I had been more explicit in my original post in comparing the two bikes. Here is the link for the motobecane:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/immortalpro_09.htm sale price $1299

and here is the link for the trek bike specs from bike pedia: http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?ItemID=19917&Type=bike

Again, I appreciate everyone's input on the topic, and they were pretty varied across the board.

I'm still of the opinion that shopping, researching, and test riding bikes before you buy is all part of the fun. However, i was happy to see that there were no horror stories about Motobecane bikes.

[warneral]

I personally wouldn't want to buy a bike at that price having never actually ridden one. As I have read, not all carbon feels or rides the same. Bike design, wheel sets, and carbon quality all play a part.

[TxDoc]

If he wants as much bike as he can for the money and the 2 bikes he's looking at are about the same price, then it seems a no-brainer to go with the local purchase. He'd get much more than a bike. He'd get a shop that would stand by what they sold him and be an ongoing resource for him as he learns and grows as a cyclist. I doubt the online retailer would do much more for him than take his credit card info.

+1 for the local purchase.

On a whole different topic, where is your friend planning on riding? It seems odd that both bikes have a compact crankset as the only choice... Of course you can always change the crankset later, but unless you live up a mountain why buy a compact to begin with? :confused:

[Catrin]

... but unless you live up a mountain why buy a compact to begin with? :confused:

Ok, I keep reading this and I simply must ask. Why is a compact more desirable over a triple in the mountains? Isn't that the purpose of my triple, to provide more gears to assist with the hills?

[Crankin]

Well, some believe that having only 2 rings provides smoother shifting and that you can get pretty much the same gear ratios with a compact that has a 27t rear. Personally, I have always had a triple; when I was about to get a compact double on my Trek 5200, we moved to a street with a 10% grade hill. I kept the triple.
DH went from a regular double to a compact, when they first came out. It never shifted right and he spent a lot of time working on it. I think he actually bought a different one and had that for 2 years. When we bought the bikes we have now, he got a triple.
The "thing" about having a double comes from racing, where having a triple is, well, not for racers. But since most of us are not racing, as long as you have a finely tuned triple, who cares? I have never had any trouble with my Ultegra triple. I *did* have lots of issues with my first road bike, which had crappy components. In fact, I never used the big ring, since I could push the lever to get it into that gear.

[Aggie_Ama]

I have 105 with an Ultegra derailer on my road bike, it shifts amazingly. Shimano uses trickle down technology and from what I understand 105 today was once a higher end line. I wasn't in love with the shop I bought my road bike from, they did give two free tune-ups with purchase.

The shop I now use gives you 15% off parts for the life of the bike if you bought it there, two free tune-ups. We have been going to them exclusively for several years and have gotten countless amounts of free service including in the last two months a cassette, chain ring and brake pads installed for free. My brake pads were a year old and the replacement parts got comped. I got my brakes bled for free twice. So I am for supporting the local shop, plus we have made some really good friends this way. In my experience it has paid off.

[Catrin]

So I am for supporting the local shop, plus we have made some really good friends this way. In my experience it has paid off.

Yep, it really pays to develop a good relationship with a LBS. At my current LBS, since they did the conversion to my LHT (which I did not purchase there), minor tweaks and adjustments do not cost me anything. When they have charged me it has been very little.

Of course, the conversion cost me half the price of the bike...

[indysteel]

The point I am trying to make is that you don't need to buy a bike at a particular shop to build a relationship with that shop. The LBS I used before I had my own in-house wrench was not the shop where I got the bike. It's the shop where I got a fitting. Because they didn't turn their nose up my bike because I didn't purchase it there, they ultimately got a fair amount of business from me, including my next bike and all its parts.

While I do think there's a benefit to trying a bike out before buying it, if your friend feels comfortable buying online, I don't think it's the end of the world. He can take it into the shop and they will presumably be more than happy--if they have any sense--to take $200-300 from him to build it up. That's where they make a lot of their profit anyway. From there, he can build a relationship with them.

And Catrin, the comment "unless you live at the top of a mountain, why get a compact in the first place" refers to getting a standard double, not to a triple, as the alternative. At least that's what I presume they mean.

[ny biker]

+1 for the local purchase.

On a whole different topic, where is your friend planning on riding? It seems odd that both bikes have a compact crankset as the only choice... Of course you can always change the crankset later, but unless you live up a mountain why buy a compact to begin with? :confused:

I don't live on top of a mountain but there are plenty of hills around here. And I have asthma. And I have knee problems. I need low gears.

[warneral]

I definitely use my low gears too. Tis why I had my shop switch out my double for a compact.

In fact I spoke with a gal in the shop I was at and she said that compacts are good for our region of wisconsin adn that you'd probably only NEED a triple if you were in the mountains.

But then I'm not a racer, just a rider :)

I do think that some shops make their bread and butter from repairs and building. One of the local shops told me they make most of their profits from repairs and not bike sales. This was a small town shop that only sells Jamis for the purpose of being price competitive with the nearby Madison Trek stores...

[batsheva]

i personally would never use bikesdirect.com they have very mixed reviews online about damaged goods being shipped and the bikes needing significant assembly and people having to pay LBS to assemble... a friend of mine ordered one anyway, despite the mixed reviews online just to save some money and it took a couple of hours of a bike mechanic to assemble it correctly and unwarp the wheels and fix a bent derailleur.. appparently the customer service was very unhelpful she told me... she also got a bike that had the 'bling' of a rear ultegra derailleur - but most of the other components were really low quality.

[TxDoc]

And Catrin, the comment "unless you live at the top of a mountain, why get a compact in the first place" refers to getting a standard double, not to a triple, as the alternative. At least that's what I presume they mean.

Yes, thank you Indysteel - that is exactly what I meant to say, sometimes I stumble on my own written English when I'm tired... :o
I guess I always wonder why someone would put himself at a disadvantage on purpose, by using a triple or a compact instead of a standard chainring.
But, NY biker makes a good point too - so well, I guess sometimes it does make sense, thanks!

[moderncyclista]

Any bike from any shop wins for me over the Motobecane.

Agreed.

Motobecane used to be a good name in the 1970's, can't say much for the manufacturer that bought out that name. You are safer going with the Trek and more likely to get quality components, which really frickin' count. Seriously.

[colorisnt]

I would always, always go with the LBS. I never buy ANYTHING expensive or anything I am very dependent on online. I commute, so reliability is KEY. I bought a set of lights from my favorite LBS about 3 weeks ago. On my commute to work, the tailight broke. I took it in after I taught class and within 15 minutes had a "replacement" taillight just given to me while they get more of my model in stock.

Likewise, we bought two bikes from one shop in my hometown (my dad an I) and my mom wanted to get back on the bike. We brought her bike in to get it tuned up and they did so without even charging!

Definitely go with the LBS. Many dealers offer a pro-fit free of charge, too. This is worth its weight in gold IMO.

And so glad to hear someone else is getting into bikes!

[indysteel]

Agreed.

Motobecane used to be a good name in the 1970's, can't say much for the manufacturer that bought out that name. You are safer going with the Trek and more likely to get quality components, which really frickin' count. Seriously.

The components on the Montebecane are not low end or appreciably different than what you would find on a Trek. That doesn't mean I think there are no pros to buying a bike at an LBS, but I don't subscribe to the belief that local shops are the end all be all. It SO depends on the shop and the customer. We do most of our maintenance at home, so getting a free tune up isn't a selling point. Fittings are valuable, but they don't come for free in my neck of the woods.

[malkin]

Think globally; shop locally.

Anything you spend in a local business comes back to you in the community. Besides, if your LBS guy knows you and likes you, you'll benefit for a long time!

[moderncyclista]

The components on the Montebecane are not low end or appreciably different than what you would find on a Trek. That doesn't mean I think there are no pros to buying a bike at an LBS, but I don't subscribe to the belief that local shops are the end all be all. It SO depends on the shop and the customer. We do most of our maintenance at home, so getting a free tune up isn't a selling point. Fittings are valuable, but they don't come for free in my neck of the woods.

Well you know what they say, "Opinions are like bellybuttons, everybody has one." :D

[Seajay]

Think about what your deraileur does for you when you realize that corner at the bottom of a long fast descent is sharper than you thought. You come to understand buying a bike simply by components is not the best choice.
There's no free lunch. Two bikes at the same price...one with higher end parts....something has to give. Quality, Service, Engineering etc. If it made no difference...every bike would be cheap.
I highly doubt in today's market that a company like Trek is stupid enough to expect they can charge extra for JUST the name.
Buy the highest quality, best fitting frame/fork and wheels that you can afford. If it comes with 105 instead of Ultegra so be it. If it has to be Ultegra or DA...time to raise your budget not lower your standards.

oh...and GREAT avatar Moderncyclista

[Cataboo]

Erm.

What does my derailleur do for me when I realize that the corner at the bottom of a steep descent is sharper than I thought?

I usually put on my brakes and don't shift for it.

And I don't buy that trek doesn't charge more for their bikes because of the trek name - because trek does. Seven charges more for their titanium bicycles than litespeed does for similarly speccd bikes. Trek charges more than jamis for similarly speccd bikes. Pinarello charges more than whatever. Sometimes it depends on the number of bikes being produced and the market, but differences in prices are not purely higher prices = better bike quality. Just as a chanel purse is not 1,000 times higher quality than a regular leather purse.

[lauraelmore1033]

I recently brought a new, internet purchased bike in to my bike shop for a tuneup and to buy pedals, water bottle holders, pump, and computer for it. The total for all these things was over $300, but they acted like I'd brought in a dirty cat box or something. Now, I have bought a bike in that shop, and regularly drop lots of money on tune ups, tires, tubes, clothes, so it's not like I'm some kind of freeloader. The new bike is way better than anything I could have afforded to buy in the shop, and, I just wouldn't have dropped that kind of money in the first place. I sorta understand why they would be annoyed by "losing" a sale, but, as I just mentioned, I wouldn't have spent that much anyway, so I'm thinking my business in this situation was a bonus. I guess not.

[Cataboo]

I think what it comes down to is that cyclists need a LBS to support them if they want to ride and maintain a good bike. But the LBS needs the cyclists too.


I have ridden and maintained great bikes for the last three years without getting any work done at a local bike shop. I have bought stuff at the local bike shops just for the convenience of being able to get it immediately.

[ridebikeme]

It seems that we have had this discussion many times here on TE. I have to say that I try and buy as much local as I can... and perhaps on occasion the price might be a tad higher. But here's why I do... that money filters back to local jobs, taxes and many benefits for the local community..clinics etc.. The other harsh reality is that a shop can offer service, advice, and loads of information on local rides, training rides, trail info etc.. All of that is something that you do NOT receive online.

If I am going to buy a book, I'm going to go to a shop to buy it. I appreciate that they know who I am, know what I like and might even suggest a book that I might not have considered. These same people are sitting on boards in their community trying to make a difference. They are reaching out and not simply for my pocketbook!

Many shops do charge more for products purchased elsewhere and may be disappointed that you didn't buy through them. If you feel as though you are being treated badly, then perhaps you should have a conversation about this. Explain what you wanted to spend, what you are looking for and how you'll use it, and there could be an instance where they are able to find something for you. If they have no luck, they'll at least know that you thought of them and that could also change everyones behavior.

Regardless of what you are buying, I would suggest that you check locally first, talk with shop owner/employees and explain what you want, tell them about prices that you have seen elsewhere, and at least let them do some research. Not only will you foster better communication, but you might be surprised at what you find out. The harsh reality is that when we are able to buy everything that we need online or through another source, then the conversation here will be more about locating jobs and the lack of them. Just something to think about folks.:rolleyes:

[Trek420]

Think globally; shop locally.

Anything you spend in a local business comes back to you in the community. Besides, if your LBS guy knows you and likes you, you'll benefit for a long time!


The harsh reality is that when we are able to buy everything that we need online or through another source, then the conversation here will be more about locating jobs and the lack of them. Just something to think about folks.:rolleyes:

+1. My favorite LBS built me a full custom bike, restored Knott's lugged steel bike I found at a thrift store, transformed the mixte found abandoned on the sidewalk, and my cheap old commuter-mobile purchased from another shop. :cool:

Yes, I look for online deals on everything from Cytomax to clothes (look above and "click to shop" on TE :)).

If you think your job can't be offshored or moved, you're wrong, it can. It's always a great idea to shop and get to know the people, businesses in your local community.

It's fun and I find it saves me time and money.

We are an international forum after all. Everybody needs jobs. I'm going to buy products made from everywhere and anywhere. But when I can I search for and prefer to be a "local'varian" and I think it's never been more important.

http://madeinusareviews.blogspot.com/

[Trek420]

I buy a lot of gear online. I feel guilty, but I still do it. Then I try to make up for it by patronizing my LBS.

Or bringing them beer and cookies. ;) :D :)

[Cataboo]

Yes:) I know that is the case with a lot of people. I did consider modifying it to 'most cyclists,' but the crux of the issue is more one of community support and reciprocity. That's all.

I buy a lot of gear online. I feel guilty, but I still do it. Then I try to make up for it by patronizing my LBS.

I probably shouldn't bother responding - because I can actually see both sides here and understand that it's great to buy local and the rest of that - but I also understand that buying local is often more expensive and is in some ways a luxury - if you don't have much money or you're a student or whatever, us telling people that they should go pay full price at local bike shops for things that are often inflated in price, really makes no sense - because just as there's economic pressures on bike shops, there's economic pressures on all of us especially in this economy. And the guilt tripping and posturing over how much better it is to shop local, is irritating when we're basically making judgements over how other people spend their money. It's like eating right and eating organic - noone likes the person that implies they're a shitty person or mother or whatever for not paying more to buy local and eating that or feeding that to their kids or for clothing their kids in clothes bought at walmart made in sweatshops in the third world.

To a certain extent, if your business model doesn't work - it's not profitable, the answer isn't to guilt trip your clientele into paying more for stuff they can get elsewhere cheaper, it's modifying your business model in order to make it more effective. Offer stuff that online bike shops can't (which it sounds like a lot of your local bike shops manage to do, but around here, buying bikes doesn't come with free tune ups or maintenance except at some of the chain stores - but this is also an area of the country that is still doing relatively well and I don't think the bike shops are really under pressure to do so - I can think of about 3 bike shops in a 10 mile radius of my house and probably a good 30 of them in a 100 mile radius). I mean, if you own a bakery and noone is buying - then either you need to look at your prices, quality or advertising, and not guilt trip your clients and snarl at them if they want to pay you to decorate a cake they bought down the street.

There's also a blurry line between local bike shop and online business - Velo Orange is a tiny little bike shop. If I'm buying online from it, am I not buying from a local bike shop? It's within 70 miles of me, is that local? Paying for shipping is worththe time and effort it takes for me to drive over there since it's closed on saturdays. Harris cyclery is an actual local bike shop. A lot of these online businesses have wider inventory in stock than any of my local bike shops (because I do call around looking for parts or prices before buying online) - if I am going to have to order something from my local bike shop, paying full price and waiting a week or two - I could also just order it online cheaper & wait that same week. Are some online businesses better to support than others? we all agree that shopping at team estrogen to support them for catering to women and providing us this forum is good, even though it's money taken away from the local bike shop. Harris cyclery keeps up sheldon brown's site for all of us - isn't that a good thing to support?

I just deleted half this post for all of your reading pleasure

I amhappy that there is a local bike shop, because that means I can tell a bunch of friends and family members to take their bikes there instead of having me work on their's for them :) Mostly kidding,I take care of the family bikes.