Riding a Century - TIS question

[Catrin]

I have changed my riding goals for this fall, instead of doing a 200k brevet in 3 weeks, I will ride a century before the winter.

I have found this "wall" at about 5-5.5 hours into my ride. I think it is more a time-in-saddle issue than an actual mileage thing - right now that is about 68-70 miles for me - I am still slow which is one of the reasons why I have put off the brevet.

The more thinking/research I do, it seems to be a nutritional issue than anything. I have begun to wonder if I am doing something wrong in those first couple of hours that I am paying for once I cross that 5-hour mark.

I am wondering if you more experienced riders approach your nutrition on the bike differently for rides > 5-6 hours? I know that everyone is different, just wondering how others approach this. My endurance is fine - until I hit that wall and my energy just drops to nothing pretty suddenly- I think that I am starting to bonk at that point.

[Crankin]

I find any ride over 3-4 hours requires more eating than I think I will need. I get this weird slight tingly feeling unless I pay attention.
Everyone is different. I like a combination of real food and Shot Blocks at that point in the ride. I am also ravenous after long rides. If I just eat the "small amount of protein and carbs" recommended right after a ride, I really can't do it. So, I have learned t give in to my cravings, because they don't go away. I don't eat anything unhealthy, just a lot of good food and maybe a bigger meal.
I find that eating a very substantial breakfast of eggs, whole wheat toast, and fruit helps set me up for a long ride, as well as nibbling on a Luna Bar right before starting the ride and during the first hour.

[sgf726]

Hi,

I have found for the longer rides I need to make sure I eat on a fairly steady basis - usually about every 20-25 or 70-90 minutes. I usually eat a good breakfast - whole wheat bagel with either eggs or almond butter and a banana. On the rides I tend to do bananas, peanut butter, energy bars. I only use the GUs/Gels for races when I can't really stop to eat. I also have found that if I eat too much as once it impacts my performance so just small amounts paced about 90 minutes apart. If its warm I will use an electrolyte drink under 65 deg usually just water.

Everyone is different so need to figure out what works best for you, some of my friends can eat a big lunch mid-ride. I wouldn't be able to move if I did that. I am also typically pretty hungry afterwards so will eat a good dinner.
The other key is the night before. If am doing a longer endurance ride or race I will make sure to have a good high carb meal the night before.

[Veronica]

When I was doing double centuries and my monthly 200Ks I would eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and drink chocolate milk on the way to the ride. If I had enough time I'd also eat a yogurt. Depends on how long the drive was. Once on the bike, I drank every 15 minutes and ate every 30 minutes like clockwork. One of the checkpoints for the brevet was at a grocery store and coincided pretty nicely with lunchtime. I'd get a banana, a Red Bull, a bag of ice and peanut M&Ms. I'd eat half to 2/3 of the banana, drink all the Red Bull, and the M&Ms went in my Bento Box since I'd be sick of Sport Beans and gels by then. I prefer my drinks cold so the ice ensured I kept drinking the rest of the day.

I figured out that this was I needed to do on all the long training rides I did before I did my first double century.

I followed this same routine for all the long rides I did. Then I got over doing long rides. :D

Goodness, I haven't had a Red Bull in like two years.

Veronica

[Pedal Wench]

I have a similar "wall" that I hit about 65-70 miles into a ride. For me, it's mental - I just don't like my bike at that moment and I'll do anything to be done with the ride. I just make sure my nutrition's on track and just push through it. Then I just keep riding. And riding. And riding!

[azfiddle]

Catrin,

My longest ride so far is 66 miles, but I'm training for 109 in November (The Tour de Tucson). The first time I rode 65 miles, I didn't eat enough and got tired and cranky. I also had serious chaffing from my shorts - the shorts that fit fine in October were just too loose by December.

Recently, I rode that distance again, but I ate a lot more frequently- bananas, and cookies that were offered at the aid stations, plus shot blocks and a Luna bar. At around 55 miles, I pulled out a peanut butter and nutella sandwich, and it tasted great and really revived me. I will see how it goes as I increase my mileage.

[OakLeaf]

I need protein if I'm going over four hours or so. Believe it or not, my go-to meal is a tuna salad sandwich (easily available in convenient stores, and my stomach tolerates it fine). You may want something a little more digestible. :cool:

[Catrin]

For longer rides I have tried to eat at least a serving of Shot Blocks every hour, and there is Heed in my Camelbak, along with two bottles of Accelerade on my bike. I try and remember to stop to drink the Accelerade every 30 minutes or so, and of course have the Heed available for sipping all of the time on a long ride.

When riding loops, I try to construct my route so that I am back at my car about every 25-30 miles, and then I eat something like a Cliff bar, or a banana/PB sandwich. Both sit on my stomach well, and Shot Blocs sit fine, better than other things of that type.

I've read that it is important what you eat the first 3 hours of a long ride for that sets you up for later. It may be that I am not getting enough calories in those first couple of hours. I will admit that I find that I stop less often now that I am clipped in - am still retraining my body HOW to stop and it is easier just to keep going...

[nscrbug]

I have done 4 centuries so far this year. Two of which seemed easy and effortless...the other 2, not so much. The key for me, is that I never plan to do a century when I set out on a ride. Because knowing that I have 100 miles to ride at the start of a ride, will totally get myself psyched out and I won't be able to do it. All of my centuries happened when I just decide on a whim, at a certain point in my ride (usually around the 75 or 80 mile mark), that I've come this far so surely I can crank out another 15 or 20 miles. I too, struggle with dialing in my nutrition correctly on long rides. I start every ride out with a big bowl of plain oatmeal with a small sliced banana in it, a small dollop of natural PB, and a sprinkle of cinnamon on top. Sometimes, I will also have a hard-boiled egg white.

On long rides, frequent rest stops are key for me. I only bring 1 21oz. bottle filled with some type of electrolyte drink like Heed or GU20. My routes always take me past many gas stations, so I always plan on refilling my bottle whenever we stop. At stops, I usually refill with G2, diluted Gatorade, or plain water...and lots of ice. I will nibble on something, too...depends on what I bring along with me. I always bring a package of some type of energy "chew" like Shot Blocs, Honey Stingers, Sport Beans, or Luna Moons. In addition to that, I also bring either some "mini" Lara Bars or I'll cut up a standard Clif Bar into 4 smaller pieces and will eat 2 pieces at each stop. And finally, depending on how I feel...I sometimes bring a PB & Honey Uncrustable (soooo yummy!). Sometimes I end up eating everything I bring....sometimes not. All depends on what my body needs on any given day.

[GLC1968]

You know, I used to have a similiar problem on long rides. Right around mile 60 or 65, I'd just lose all energy and it felt like just keeping the pedals moving was a massive effort. I was with my husband for all of those rides and each time, he'd keep me going. Usually about 15 miles later, my energy would return and I'd feel fine. I have no idea if it was nutrition or what and I never really studied it much because I just knew that if I kept pushing, I'd get past it. It happened on every ride over 70 miles or so.

The funny thing is, my longest ride this year was at Crater Lake. We did ~78 miles and I never hit that bad spot at all. I was tired and my saddle was killing me, but I never lost all my energy. The main difference between that ride and others I've done was both what I ate and when. For the Crater Lake Century, I ate at every rest stop and they were really well placed for my stomach. I swear my tummy would grumble and I would think 'hmmm, I'm hungry again' and BAM, there was the next rest stop. Because I was in the midst of a weight loss challenge, I was careful with what I ate, too. I had my typical protien oatmeal prior to the ride (same thing I always eat before long rides/races) and then at each rest stop I would focus on fruit (mostly grapes) and sandwiches. They had 3" subway sandwiches so all told, I think I ate 3 or 4 of those (turkey) over the course of the day. I also had a home baked cookie at each stop, too. I did not touch my own food (sharkies and cliff bars) and my water bottles were filled with water in one and with Nunn in the other. I avoided all crap (like store bought cookies, trail mix, donuts, chocolate, granola bars, etc) and it really worked well for me.

Anyway, I think that for me, consistent fueling of QUALITY food (which in my case means fruit/grain carbs and protein, not sugar) was what made the difference.

[Desert Tortoise]

Like many have commented, protein with carbs to start the day has also worked for me on long rides. Regular rides start with oatmeal and brown sugar. But for a long ride, I also have lowfat cottage cheese. It is packed with protein, a little bit of fat for staying power and the carbs from the oatmeal give me energy.

Also, I get grossed out with too many gels and stuff. I eat dried fruit like dates and pineapple (nutrition label will tell you the carbs) sometimes throw in some salty almonds into the mix. This way a gel pack mid morning and another in the afternoon.

The small protein packed sandwhich after several hours helps too.

Az Fiddle, good luck with El Tour. You'll have a blast! By the way, despite all of the great aid station snacks and water, I took a small peanut butter sandwhich to have around mile 60, glad I did. The fresh fruit was great but that protein hit the spot.

[warneral]

I can't relate to rides this long (yet), but I keep a couple squeeze pouches of natural PB or almond butter (Justin's or Barney butter) in my saddle bag in case I ever need some quick fat& protein :)

[malkin]

Long rides aren't really in the picture right now for me. But when I was doing many of them, I ate really an astonishing amount. On and off the bike. Ride days and rest days.

[Catrin]

Yeah, I have pretty much realized that I am not fueling enough for my long rides. I think WHAT I eat is fine, just not enough of it. As I am newly clipping in I find myself resistant to stopping very often to do that, so will have to just make myself do it. Of course I could also cut something into smaller portions and put it in my bento box... I HAVE done that with shot blocs from time to time. Those don't provide many calories though.

[Crankin]

Catrin, I am not so good at eating/riding at the same time, either. Well, not so good at unwrapping things, etc. As a result, I also was feeling bad a lot of the time on long rides. Now, if I don't want t stop so much, I cut up pieces of my Luna Bar, or pieces of a whole wheat bagel and stick them in my jersey or jacket pocket. That is usually OK, until a stop.
I also need to eat an incredible amount on the bike. DH doesn't eat hardly anything. He barely drinks, either, and rarely uses any type of energy drink. But, he never feels badly, so I guess it works.

[crazycanuck]

I have a hard time reaching into my jersey pocket somedays so i put my cliff bloks/shots/sandwiches in my sports bra. Easy to reach :)

[Catrin]

I will experiment with this over the weekend :)

[jobob]

I have changed my riding goals for this fall, instead of doing a 200k brevet in 3 weeks, I will ride a century before the winter.

I have found this "wall" at about 5-5.5 hours into my ride. I think it is more a time-in-saddle issue than an actual mileage thing - right now that is about 68-70 miles for me [...]

Catrin, I think you're making a very wise choice here, and I applaud your self-awareness!

As far as I can tell, most everyone attempting to ride very long distances (100+ mile) has a "wall" of one sort or another, and for many it seems to be at around the 60-70 mile mark. That could be one reason why metric centuries are so popular. :cool:

It's so easy to underestimate the physical and psychological barrier that one has to cross when transitioning from 60-70 mile rides to 100+ mile rides. From my own personal experience, and seeing others' experiences (first-hand and from ride reports), it's by no means a linear progression.

Granted, some people have an easier go of it, but I'll bet even the studliest have a hiccup or two transitioning from metric century distances to 100+ mile distances. Perhaps those studly folks hit their own walls transitioning from double metrics to double centuries. Bah. :p :rolleyes: :D

I think you & everyone else who responded are quite right in that a lot of it is time in the saddle and nutrition, they definitely go hand in hand. Many people can wing it, nutrition-wise, up until around that 60 mile mark. Beyond that distance, you really need to figure out what works for you, and that takes trial & error, which takes time in the saddle.

There'll be plenty of other 200K brevets for you to go for once you've made it over that wall. And you will. :cool:

[ridebikeme]

I definitely agree with all of the comments from everyone. I'd also like to offer another option. I have a few customers that use Hammer Perpetuem, and have had VERY good luck. It is based on drinking a bottle every hour, and for the multi hour events, you simply use the chart supplied to mix bottles. ( it's based on your weight) Not only does it replace nutrients that you need, it's also becomes your drink AND your food.

I have just started using this myself, and it's great! I plan on using it this weekend on a multi hour mtn bike ride.

If any of you should try it, I'd be interested in your thoughts if you'd like to share.:p

[ny biker]

I eat/drink the same stuff (gu roctane, water, gatorade) regardless of how long the ride is -- the only difference is how much of it I consume. I also eat a larger-than-usual breakfast before a long ride, and a larger-than-usual dinner the night before. Plus I've learned the hard way to make sure I eat normally for breakfast and lunch the day before, or else I'll wind up hungry during the ride.

If I start to feel like crap on a ride, I pull over and have a snack. Even if the next rest stop is only a few miles away. It always helps. It helps to clear your head, too.

However I think I recall that you mentioned in another thread that you're diabetic -- if I'm remembering right, I don't know how this might affect things, if at all.

[OakLeaf]

I use Perpetuem for supported centuries, marathons and long (20+ mile) marathon training runs. I try to minimize my soy intake - especially isolated soy protein - so the only time I use Perpetuem is when I know I won't be able to get protein at a store. It does supply my protein needs over a long run or ride.

There are also whey-based protein supplements, but I can't use those and expect to perform at all.

[jobob]

I have a few customers that use Hammer Perpetuem, and have had VERY good luck.

I've tried Perpetuem, but for some reason it makes me a bit queasy when I'm doing a hard effort like climbing. On the other hand, I have some friends who swear by it, so there you go, to each their own. One friend mixes it up in a very concentrated gel-like slurry and consumes it out of a gel bottle, with good results.

What has worked well for me on long rides is a drink called Spiz - similar to Perpetuem, but the ingredients in Spiz work much better for me than those in Perpetuem. At least they did a couple of years ago when I last tried Perpetuem.

I think Spiz still has to be purchased directly from the manufacturer, but Randy will send you a free sample.

http://www.spiz.net/

[OakLeaf]

One friend mixes it up in a very concentrated gel-like slurry and consumes it out of a gel bottle, with good results.

That's what I do for running. For cycling, I just keep the powder in a ziploc bag and mix it as needed. It doesn't keep that long. One pre-measured bag per day, I just eyeball the amount that goes in each bottle.

[DarcyInOregon]

Catrin, there is good advice in the commentary. The only thing I can add is one, that you are diabetic, so your body is going to be different on a long ride than it will be for the cyclists who are not diabetic and two, it is really important what you eat off the bike also, not only on bike days but on rest days.

There is one aspect of the off-the-bike nutrition that some cyclists ignore, but this is important to the older cyclists as the aging body just can't get away with what it can when it is younger, and that is the cycling burns a lot of calories, so it isn't about Total Calories, but it is about Net Calories. The formula is Calories Consumed minus Calories Burned equals Net Calories. For older females, Net Calories must be the minimum of 1200 calories so as to eat the right amount of calories that provide the nutrients that heal and nourish the body cells that are damaged during training, and to prevent the loss of muscle and bone density. The reality is as the rides get longer, the calorie burn gets higher, and the bike days turn into days where the Net Calories might consistently be under zero, not even close to 1200. This is a cummulative effect and it means the body isn't getting enough protein and nutrients to repair the muscles, fatigue sets in, and the ability to go further distances withers. Thus, the matter of improving distance is simply a matter of maintaining a food and exercise log so as to track Calories Consumed and Calories Burned so that nutrition all seven days a week becomes just as important as the nutrition on each ride.

[Catrin]

I have tried Perpetuam and my stomach/body just doesn't care for it. Accelerade, on the other hand, is an entirely different story. It has more nutrients than Perpetuam and my stomach/body tolerates it just fine :)

Darcy, that is certain a good thing to keep in mind and makes perfect sense. I use "Lose It" a free app on my iPhone where I keep track of diet and exercise, and looking back over the months I see that my net calories for most days are certainly below 1,200, and on my long ride days are often closer to 500 or below.

I can't say that I haven't been told about this, but forgot about it...Yep, I need more calories....

For example, I just got in from spinning class and after completing my log for today I only wind up with net calories of 507! Well, to be fair, I was already 400 calories below my daily budget before class...

[DarcyInOregon]

Catrin, calorie deficits are what I struggle with because I cycle a lot of miles. It is real hard for me to eat enough calories because I only eat heart healthy, which isn't caloric, not like the average American going through the fast food drive-thru and consuming thousands of calories in one unhealthy meal.

I've learned to use whey powder to add more protein into my diet and that is helping, particularly with rapid muscle recovery. I no longer suffer from leg muscle fatigue. On the days I do longer rides I will use whey protein powder twice, not just once.

Here is an article that is slightly helpful, and which pinpoints the problem about how the calorie deficits affect performance on the bike. You can link to Active:Cycling on Facebook and have their articles show up on your Facebook page.

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Dropping_Weight__Not_Performance.htm?cmp=18-540&utm_source=sendible&utm_medium=feed

[Crankin]

I think the advice about eating enough on the days before a long ride is very sage. This summer, I mistakenly tried to ride on days when I had had not eaten very big meals. Although these were not long rides, it was very hot and I was riding a lot more consecutive days in a row. It just doesn't work for me unless I pay very close attention to how hungry I feel. And this often means that I eat a Luna Bar as soon as I start riding, even though I have had a good breakfast.
It's hard to do this when everyone around me doesn't need to eat as much as I do!

[alpinerabbit]

No one has mentioned salt except for almonds before.

I just did an almost-a-century (150K) and the thing that really picked me up at 105 k was two cups of broth. Don't know why.

[OakLeaf]

Very true. Everyone's been talking about sports drinks, which generally have enough sodium *if* you drink them as directed, but no one's mentioned sodium by name. It took me literally decades to learn to take in enough sodium, and to recognize the symptoms when I haven't. Now I'm afraid I'm getting too much ... why I'm thinking of seeing a sports nutritionist. No idea how to tell, without blood tests or actual symptoms.

[ny biker]

I have found that gu roctane, which has more sodium (and other stuff) than regular gu, is worth the higher price. I feel much better on hot days than I used to, since I started using it.

[Catrin]

No one has mentioned salt except for almonds before.

I just did an almost-a-century (150K) and the thing that really picked me up at 105 k was two cups of broth. Don't know why.

Good thing to bring up. I tried Endurolytes (the capsules) but I found that I just prefer eating/drinking what I need rather than taking pills. I am unsure if this is part of the equation but will think about this as well.

I LOVE your signature line :)

[ridebikeme]

Thanks for the imput everyone! FYI: Perpetuem has 9% sodium for a serving size.:o

[moonfroggy]

i have read that the more sodium in ones diet the more gets lost in sweat and urine. so the less salt you eat on a day to day basis the less you will need extra salt while exercising. i know for me the longest i have ridden is around 40 miles but i didn't need any electrolytes, i did snack the whole ride though. i wasn't sore after and didn't feel very worn out or tired. planing to finally do 50 miles soon. i know this isn't really very long compared to how many miles most of you ride so maybe doesn't really compare at all.

[Seal]

The thing about Sodium is we lose it way faster than other electrolytes. If you drink water only without replacing salt you risk hyponatremia because you lose salt and replace water which further dilutes the salt in the blood stream.

The high levels of sodium in broth used as preservative can replenish sodium levels quickly. If you drink sports drinks with relatively high concentrations of potassium the potassium may get preferentially absorbed rather than salt even though potassium is lost less quickly. Salt gets a bad rap because of what it does to blood pressure in non-athletes but salt within reason is definitely the athlete's friend especially in hot and humid conditions. If you are drenched w/sweat during a ride you really ought to be replacing sodium. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia