Quads and brevet training

[Catrin]

I admit it, I messed up. Here I've been doing all of this cycling - a mere 7 months ago I was limited to circles in a parking lot and today I went out for a 65 mile training ride. Cool stuff! Did someone ask if I've actually been stretching? Of course not :eek: :o

It was supposed to be 75 miles though...but my quads were in pain, my knees were not happy, and the wind changed direction - suspect my nutrition was off as well. Have been home almost an hour and am starting to feel better - certainly after I have my recovery beer ;)

This morning before my ride, I hired a personal trainer who is also a massage therapist to stretch me. My hip flexors have been quite tight and I haven't had much luck with them. She isn't "my" usual trainer, but she is quite good at sports stretching/massage. She said my hip flexors were indeed tight (one hip was even higher than the other but she fixed that) - but that my quads were far tighter. She did tell me that I would find a 75 mile ride troublesome and she recommended that I not try it - but of course I did head out (even if I wound up 10 miles short).

I am having a very difficult time getting my mileage past 75, and I only have 4 training weekends left. My average speed ranges between 12.5 and 13.3 - and am beginning to wonder if I am expecting too much out of myself for my very first season.

I guess this is what I get for not stretching after my rides...though I did today - kind of like closing the barn door after the horse escapes.

Any encouraging thoughts? I haven't given up, and in the end if it turns out that I am not ready I will just be out a $10 registration fee...

[KnottedYet]

In my humble opinion, stretching is highly over-rated.

Sometimes short muscles are exactly what give us power or quickness. If you need power at a particular angle of the joints, the body will change the muscle to give you exactly that power at that position.

If I've got a soccer player who is powerful and lightning-quick, but his hammies are testing out at 60 degrees, I could completely destroy him by forcing him to stretch until he tests out at 90 degrees (the "standard"). He'll have slack and sloppy muscles right at the position where he needs firm and powerful ones.

Quad and knee problems while on the bike are not due to tightness. The quad and hip flexors are actually on a slack in biking position. (which is why the body shortens the muscles for optimal performance in biking position)

If you were having problems off the bike, I wouldn't scoff at stretching.

(and of course 75 miles were troublesome, she had just yanked the ever-lovin'-f*ck out of your finely tuned muscles! Please find a trainer/massage therapist who knows what the heck she's doing!)

[Crankin]

I would take a wait and see attitude, as I know how much you want to do the brevet. Did the mt give you any reasons why you shouldn't do the 75 mile ride?
That said, two things come to mind. One, I am noticing how lack of stretching really is impacting me each year I get older. I don't take the time, unless it's been a very long ride. Hell, I haven't even been wearing the compression tights, which I *know* reduce the soreness. My quads are feeling it, too.
The second thing is that I know for me, what you are trying to accomplish would have never happened when I first started riding. I could do it now, but I still don't "train" the way you have been, just riding a lot of hills has prepared me for any events I have done. When I decide to do something, I do it, but there have been plenty of times, when in my mind, I know it's not going to happen, and i alter my goal. I did some really hard riding on my trip to Spain in May, which has lead me to give up less easily. But, I am not doing any super long or terribly difficult rides like I did there; it's like I have a pattern, which I change up a few times a year, but in the end I really don't like riding over 50 miles, not because I can't do it, but my body sort of falls apart with lots of rides over this amount. I don't want to spend my whole life in "rehab," dealing with sports injuries, etc.

[Catrin]

In my humble opinion, stretching is highly over-rated.

Sometimes short muscles are exactly what give us power or quickness. If you need power at a particular angle of the joints, the body will change the muscle to give you exactly that power at that position.
.........Quad and knee problems while on the bike are not due to tightness. The quad and hip flexors are actually on a slack in biking position. (which is why the body shortens the muscles for optimal performance in biking position)

If you were having problems off the bike, I wouldn't scoff at stretching.

(and of course 75 miles were troublesome, she had just yanked the ever-lovin'-f*ck out of your finely tuned muscles! Please find a trainer/massage therapist who knows what the heck she's doing!)

:eek: I actually hadn't thought about that last bit! My own trainer will stretch his clients that need it at the end of their training session - but he doesn't do more than that - and it isn't what I pay him for (he has never needed to do this for me). I've learned my lesson and will be more careful next time I decide that I need help stretching. The last 15-18 miles of today's 65 miles were much more difficult than they have been in a long time. Thanks for the education - it is helpful!


I would take a wait and see attitude, as I know how much you want to do the brevet. Did the mt give you any reasons why you shouldn't do the 75 mile ride?

She said my quads were too tight - though in retrospect, it may be related to her not being a cyclist/understanding cycling. My body did feel good after our session...until I broke 40 miles on the bike and the suffering began. In the past that hasn't happened until, say, 58-60 miles - and to a much less degree than today.... The original plan was to have done my long ride yesterday and not today - but work and weather interfered with that plan...



...
The second thing is that I know for me, what you are trying to accomplish would have never happened when I first started riding. I could do it now, but I still don't "train" the way you have been, just riding a lot of hills has prepared me for any events I have done. When I decide to do something, I do it, but there have been plenty of times, when in my mind, I know it's not going to happen, and i alter my goal. I did some really hard riding on my trip to Spain in May, which has lead me to give up less easily. But, I am not doing any super long or terribly difficult rides like I did there; it's like I have a pattern, which I change up a few times a year, but in the end I really don't like riding over 50 miles, not because I can't do it, but my body sort of falls apart with lots of rides over this amount. I don't want to spend my whole life in "rehab," dealing with sports injuries, etc.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I am a very stubborn woman, but I am doing this for the sheer fun of it. I don't give up easily - and I have not - but it is always a balance. I find that I do enjoy riding long distances - and if I decide in the end that I need to wait until next year for my first brevet it certainly won't mean that I've failed :)

[LilBolt]

All I know is what works for me, so I'll share that. I never stretch before or after I ride or run. However, I always start at a very comfortable pace until I feel that I've warmed up sufficiently. When I go to spin classes, I do go through whatever the cool down routine that the instructor presents. Also, I take yoga one or two times a week. I have had problems in the past with tight IT bands, so I occasionally use a foam roller, or tiger tail to work out the kinks.

It sounds like you have come a very long way, and getting those last 10 miles in are going to be much easier than the first 10 you did. Just listen to your body, figure out your nutrition & hydration needs, and you'll get to 75.

[DarcyInOregon]

Catrin, I've changed my fitness goals often enough, which I am certain most cyclists do, so if you decide you are unable to do the brevet it isn't a big deal as most of us have reached similar conclusions in prior years, and adjusted accordingly.

The brevet you want to do is in October, which means the weather will be different and most likely the winds will be stronger and show up earlier. A 125-mile ride with a lot of wind could be similar to a 200-mile ride without wind, if you want to think of it in those terms.

I've done a lot of long rides this year, but my favorite distance remains the metric century of 60-80 miles. If I was faster, or had a group where I could draft and gain speed, I could complete a century before the wind popped up. But since I bike most of the event rides by myself or with just 1-2 friends (who can't do a paceline for anything) I can't complete a century before the wind starts blowing in my face. Cycling the last miles of a full century is never very fun for me, whereas cycling a metric century is complete and total fun. On the other hand, the cylists with impressive average speeds can zip through a century and be back before the wind is a problem.

It is why I keep suggesting that you sign up and do a full century. Once you do a full century you will have a clue about what it will be like to do a 125-mile brevet, and whether it is anything you even want to do.

Also, at this time of year, after months of cycling, fatigue can really set in. The body badly needs 1-2 weeks of rest so the muscles can heal. It is why I do my longer rides in the spring and early summer when I am fresh, then taper off to the metrics or shorter rides as the year advances. You might have reached the stage of needing 1-2 weeks off the bike, and that is what you are experiencing now.

Another nice aspect of the charity ride events over the brevets is that the event rides will typically have 3 distance choices, the full century, a metric century of 60-80 miles and a shorter route of 30-50 miles. You can sign up for the event and on the day of the ride if you can't do the century then do the metric, or if the weather is bad do the short route. Some cyclists don't even make up their minds until the century diverges off the main route. Most cyclists who do the metrics are fully capable of doing a century, but they prefer the metric because it is such a nicer distance to bike.

[marni]

Another nice aspect of the charity ride events over the brevets is that the event rides will typically have 3 distance choices, the full century, a metric century of 60-80 miles and a shorter route of 30-50 miles. You can sign up for the event and on the day of the ride if you can't do the century then do the metric, or if the weather is bad do the short route. Some cyclists don't even make up their minds until the century diverges off the main route. Most cyclists who do the metrics are fully capable of doing a century, but they prefer the metric because it is such a nicer distance to bike.

I agree totally with this. Unless there is a price difference in the registration fee for the different mileages, I will sign up for a century but will evaluate each ride on the day, about 50% of the time, the weather or my legs or my mentality don't feel up for a century, or they have the cut off time set for a pace that I don't think that I can do and still feel good through the whole ride, or the course close time is set unreasonably early, so I do the metric century instead .

Watever you decide it will be good.

marni

[OakLeaf]

The body badly needs 1-2 weeks of rest so the muscles can heal.

+1 - with all the reading you've been doing, have you been periodizing your training at all? If you haven't had a week or two to back off, you're well overdue for it.


I'll be contrary on some of the rest of it though - although I've never done 200K when I was really counting, I've done 120 a handful of times and 100 more times than I can count, and I don't really think there's an enormous amount of difference there (and I can't imagine those last 5 miles would make all that much difference). Sure, if it's windy, it can be not. fun. at. all. But neither would 100 be (and I've done my share of 100s in the wind, close to crying by the end of them :rolleyes:). And my guess is you're more like me and more inclined to tough it out ... the one event that I signed up for and couldn't complete was the year my knee blew up on TOSRV, and I did cry that time.

[Catrin]

+1 - with all the reading you've been doing, have you been periodizing your training at all? If you haven't had a week or two to back off, you're well overdue for it.

Periodizing? I must have missed this one. Last weekend the wind forced me to back my rides down to 35 and 45 miles respectively rather than the two 70 mile rides I had planned - but that is the closest I've come to taking a weekend off since the end of June/first of July...

There IS a charity ride next weekend in southern Indiana that sounds like a great deal of fun - and it does have a century option. They apparently will also have bands playing at each of the rest stops :) I may not be able to afford it since I haven't planned for it - somehow I didn't hear about it until the other day. They do have the three distance options, including the century. Depending on how I am feeling & finances I will try it (and take the next week off), or just take this coming weekend off.

Thanks for all of the comments, I appreciate it! I do tend to just keep going even when I shouldn't - but am trying to avoid over-use injuries. This was the only reason that I stopped yesterday 9.5 miles short of my goal...so am proud of myself that I actually DID stop :p

[OakLeaf]

D'oh. Magic 8-ball, train thyself ... :o

Here I was wondering why I've been so slow on my long runs and why I was so sore after my last one.

Couldn't have anything to do with going from 12 on July 30 to 23 on September 10, and no, the two weekends that I spent on my feet at "fun" events and the consequent scheduling of two long runs 10 days apart instead of 7, does not count as backing off ... :rolleyes:

I guess this Friday I'll do 18 or less.

[Catrin]

hmmmm, let's see...June 13 I rode 30 miles and was very happy with myself. I've more than doubled my mileage in two months and I wonder that my body is complaining? Duh...

So perhaps this Saturday I cap it at 40-50...though will have to decide if that is "really" backing off :rolleyes:

Am leaning more and more in the direction of putting off the brevet for next spring, and on doing a century by the end of this season - that seems more reasonable at this point. Time will tell :)

[Catrin]

Sadly, I do seem to have a slight injury to my right thigh/quad from yesterday - and my hip flexor isn't feeling well either as it is sore to the touch (sightly). I am assuming that is what I am feeling, it is on the inside of my thigh where it meets my body. It is in the actual thigh, not my groin. I was fine until I went to spinning class tonight and worked a little hard than was good for me - though less hard than normal for class.

So I am now icing my thigh and will take 1-2 days off from activities and it should be fine. This is the last time that I get stretched before a long bike ride :eek: :rolleyes: What WAS I thinking :confused: