Ignorant or just plain stupid?

[m.eliza]

Just venting a little bit here, but I'm curious. Why do motorists think it's okay to pass a cyclist 50 feet before a stop sign, then stop, causing the cyclist to have to slam on the brakes to avoid colliding with the motorist's rear bumper? This happened to me twice this evening on my 10-mile commute. I am not a pedestrian! I follow the laws that apply to vehicles and I expect to be treated like one. I understand this is a lot to ask for, but twice in one short ride really gets to me.

[Eden]

Probably mostly ignorance..... I tackle this problem by moving out into the center of the lane 100 or so meters before the stop sign. It usually gives a pretty clear signal to motorists that no its not OK to move in front of me just now.

[IFjane]

Probably mostly ignorance..... I tackle this problem by moving out into the center of the lane 100 or so meters before the stop sign. It usually gives a pretty clear signal to motorists that no its not OK to move in front of me just now.

I do exactly the same thing. What bugs me even more is when a driver passes me, then slams on the brakes to turn into a driveway. :mad:

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Drivers often perceive of a person on a bicycle as moving much slower than they actually are. For example, they actually sometimes think they have plenty of time to pass them and then make a right turn into a driveway, not realizing how fast the cyclist is traveling.
It's not going to change very much any time soon, but we can help keep ourselves safer by knowing how drivers see and think, thus anticipating their clueless and sometimes life-endangering moves.

Always assume a driver doesn't see you. Always expect them to do the wrong thing. These two assumptions have saved my life more than once. :cool:

[crazycanuck]

We had something similar on a ride last week at a give way sign. Idiot driver decided to go into the right lane(to turn left) & then proceed to turn left in front of us..

What an idiot. Couldn't wait two seconds..:rolleyes:

However...yesterday as I ventured through the same area-it's windy & normally no passing lanes-and I helped a motorist...I was going up & around one of these windy bits & noticed no cars coming the other way for a while so I gave the person the thumbs up & waved them on by. Nice person honked in thanks :)

[Eden]

I have actually rear ended a car...... it was not at a stop sign, but rather someone who was so busy looking at me and at passing me that they failed to notice that a car was stopped parallel parking just up ahead. It was a rainy day so when they slammed on the brakes, even thought I put mine full on there was just no stopping in time. I tried to steer away and ended up putting my left hand through their right tail light... fortunately it was also cold, so I had on long finger gloves and that saved my a lot of cuts. I smashed a nail on one finger (it broke under the cuticle and eventually fell off....) but fingernails heal and tail lights don't...

[lph]

I agree with Lisa here, I think it's very common to drivers to perceive cyclists as Slow, no matter what speed they're actually moving at. It would be very interesting to see if this happens less to riders that "look fast", in team gear, matching helmet, agressive riding position, road bikes, than with more "anonymous" bike riders.

I also think that cyclists are just a bit too few sometimes, so we just disappear. Drivers look for cars (this is a common problem for motorcyclists too, I think), they are aware of cars, and they maneuver in traffic with cars in mind. I think we're at risk of being passed and then forgotten, as just a "minor blip" in traffic, not as a steady presence.

It's hugely annoying, though. I have saved my skin several times by just assuming that any vehicle directly ahead of me can brake or turn to the right with no signal at any possible moment. Had some very close calls before I started assuming this on a regular basis, though.

[OakLeaf]

It would be very interesting to see if this happens less to riders that "look fast", in team gear, matching helmet, agressive riding position, road bikes, than with more "anonymous" bike riders.

Florida is probably a special case, but there have been very serious wrecks involving fast pacelines when a driver did just that.

[Crankin]

I always move into the lane a bit near stop signs. I *know* that drivers do not realize how fast we can go. Last week I saw a car with out of state plates (won't say where, but it's south/west of here) coming to a yield sign at the round a bout in Concord center. I knew he wasn't going to stop and yield to the people in the rotary. I was going around the circle and it was hard for me to take my hand off of the bar to shake my finger at him, so I started shaking my head, vigorously, like "no, no, no.!" He got the message. he started to just roll right into the rotary, no stopping, no looking, nothing.
Where did this happen? I have certain things I do at certain intersections that, I feel, make me safer, even if it might slow me down.

[OakLeaf]

For the right hook (or the situation the OP described), my vote is "plain stupid," or rather more like "don't care because we're vulnerable and they're not."

They just passed us. So they know how fast we're going. If they had to speed up to 35 mph to get around us, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if they then take the right-hand turn at 10 mph, or jam on their brakes to a complete stop, they're going to cut us off.

[badger]

I think it's a bit of both ignorance and stupidity.

What bugs me is when I'm in my car approaching an intersection and there's a cyclist to the right of me, I'll slow down or even stop before I try to initiate a right turn so the cyclist can go straight without me cutting him/her off. This sometimes holds up the traffic behind me and I've gotten honked at. Like I'm supposed to take out the cyclist so the car behind me can go?!

[Bike Chick]

I was going around the circle and it was hard for me to take my hand off of the bar to shake my finger at him, so I started shaking my head, vigorously, like "no, no, no.!"

Which finger did you shake at him???:D

[Crankin]

Ha...
I usually use the index finger, which one of my riding friends says looks like I am a teacher scolding a kid (which of course, I never did, but it feels natural). The head shaking did work, as soon as I made eye contact, he got my drift.
I don't give drivers the finger anymore. Though sometimes I do say the words!

[Bike Chick]

I don't give them the finger anymore either. The last time I did was a couple years ago. I flipped off the driver of a van that squeezed between us and an oncoming vehicle almost killing all of us in the process. After they passed (waving in the process) I realized it was a lady from our church and her teenager daughter. They had recognized us and were passing to say "hello." I felt terrible and promptly put the finger away.

Sorry for the drift. Drivers do not realize how fast we are going and I always try to anticipate what they might do. A lot of drivers get nervous when they see a cyclist and panic. I keep thinking the more they see us on the road, the more accustomed they will become to cyclists.

[m.eliza]

Thanks for the advice, everyone! I guess I shy away from moving into the middle of the lane until I'm almost at the stop sign. I get nervous if there is even one car in the distance. Anyway, I was out for a ride the other night, coming up to a stop where I'd be merging onto a pretty busy road. I looked over my left shoulder and saw a car approaching maybe 50 yards behind me, so I moved into the middle of the lane. This woman deliberately went alllll the way into the left lane to pass me, then swerved back in front of me, missing me by about a foot so she could beat me to the stop sign. I'm hoping this was a rare occurence. She didn't seem like a typical safe driver -- cigarette in one hand, cell phone in the other. I don't think she even noticed when I flipped her the bird, rested my front wheel on her rear bumper and stared daggers into her rear-view mirror while she waited to turn.


Where did this happen? I have certain things I do at certain intersections that, I feel, make me safer, even if it might slow me down.
This most recent one was when I was merging on the Great Rd from Strawberry Hill by the vet's office. Last week, one was coming up to Rte 27 in Acton from a side street near the library (I never remember road names here - but either Nagog or Nashoba), and the other was a pretty mellow turn in the same area, I think the intersection of Hammond and something else... Sorry haha once I know my routes I forget all the street names!

[Crankin]

OK, if you are turning right onto Great Rd. from Strawberry Hill and then you need to make an immediate left onto Brooks St. (by Donelan's), you need to either stop at the sign and wait until you can get right out into the lane to turn, without hesitation, or if you can see that there's no car closely approaching on 2A when you are coming to the stop, just book it, and get out there! If you are just turning right on 2A there's a pretty big shoulder there. You can't hug the right side in the first situation. If you are out in the lane well ahead of the turn or stop, I can't imagine someone just running you over! And stick your arm out and sort of shake it, pointing with your finger as you are getting in the lane. It gives the drivers some idea of your intention. Sometimes, I think they just aren't sure what we are going to do; they don't see bikes as vehicles and are surprised when we act as one. Now, that woman sounded like a real azzhole, but, I have found most around here are not.
As far as the Rt. 27 goes, I am not sure if you were on 27, turning onto Newtown (the one by the library). It must have been Newtown, as Hammond is off of there and you mentioned that. Or, were you waiting at Newtown, to turn left on 27? That is an intersection I avoid at all costs, except on weekends, early in the AM. You could die waiting to get across there. It's even worse in the car. I don't really like riding on 27; I do it, but usually just little parts. It is safer and easier to either cross or turn at Nagog Hill, and then you can cut through one of the neighborhoods to get over to Newtown. I have a friend who lives in that area, and I would have never known about those streets if I didn't go to her house.

[redrhodie]

I looked over my left shoulder and saw a car approaching maybe 50 yards behind me, so I moved into the middle of the lane. This woman deliberately went alllll the way into the left lane to pass me, then swerved back in front of me, missing me by about a foot so she could beat me to the stop sign. I'm hoping this was a rare occurence. She didn't seem like a typical safe driver -- cigarette in one hand, cell phone in the other. I don't think she even noticed when I flipped her the bird, rested my front wheel on her rear bumper and stared daggers into her rear-view mirror while she waited to turn.



Unfortunately, this is not at all uncommon. In fact, the driver will often end up stopping at the stop sign in the opposite travel lane, if you can believe it, since he'll misjudge your speed, and his ability to get in front of you before the intersection. I usually just shake my head in disbelief. Often there will be oncoming cars that will make a better point of being annoyed than anything we can do on a bike. Sadly, our gestures are reacted to with everything from laughter to rage, so use them wisely (and most often, that means not at all, just in case the driver is a psycho or drunk).

Around here (I'm also in New England) logic doesn't always prevail, and taking the lane doesn't always work like it should. Your best bet (do still take the lane!) is to be ready to react by being able to do an emergency stop or turn. You won't need to do it often, but a couple of times in the just this past year, being able to stop and turn quickly probably saved me and my bike from major damage. There's a lot of info in this book about how to do it:

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Urban-Cycling-Lessons-Street/dp/0762727837

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Needless to say, when i need to cross really dangerous intersections, I may choose to simply get off my bike and temporarily become a pedestrian. It's not worth my life.