Thinking of a new bike

[pll]

I must ask for your opinions:

My current ride: a 2003 Felt F85 (http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2003&Brand=Felt&Model=F85&Type=bike) (all aluminum, Shimano Sora components).

And the two bikes I want to test ride:

Kona Haole (http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=haole)
Bianchi Vigorelli (http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/gran-fondo/vigorelli/)


This "hunger" for a new bike was brought about by seeing that my LBS started carrying Kona, so I went to their web site to see what the offered. At and MSRP $2500, the components look great to me, and I like that it is steel. When I went the shop, they did not have the Haole and offered the Vigorelli (currently discounted at $1600). I'm calling other dealers in the area tomorrow, to see if anyone has the Haole in a size I can ride.

Thoughts?

PS: I should probably add that I don't know what's the best way to compare these two bikes. The Bianchi has a geometry closer to what I ride now, and that needed a fair amount of tweaking. My Felt is OK now, not great. I have no clue about the different tubing (Deda Zero versus Reynolds 631). And, on the shallow end of the sprectrum, the Vigorelli looks blah to me, while I like the look of the Haole. It seems the Vigorelli is also heavier -- the references I found indicated 19lbs+, while claims for the Haole where in the range 16-17lbs.

[Bike Chick]

They both look like great bikes. It just depends on what you want in components and what kind of riding you do. Do you have a lot of hills? Do you ride centuries?

I'm not as knowledgeable as the majority of ladies here but imo you've made an excellent decision to go with steel, but that's my personal choice. The Haole is more upright and would be a more comfortable ride than you were used to with your Felt and it has the better components, however, it has a standard double crank which would be a big change from your triple. The Vigorelli looks to be more aggressive which is similar to your Felt with lesser components but has a compact double crank, which would be an easier switch from your triple. What issues do you have with your Felt? I would look for a bike that would correct whatever you don't like about it.

It sounds like you are leaning toward the Haole, which is your first choice anyway. I would suggest test riding the Vigorelli and keep looking for a Haole to test ride, then decide.

[pll]

Thanks Bike Chick!

Types of rides: 27 miles and up, to centuries. Not many hills here, but I aspire to take it on rides like this one: http://travel.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/travel/01Biking.html

My issues with the Felt are (1) vibration, vibration, vibration (it rattles me, and my hands resent it especially on long rides; (2) the reach is long, so the current stem is very short, which makes the bike "twitchy". I have the suspicion (because of the similar geometry) that I may have tweak the Vigorelli in a similar way. When I test ride, I know I will have to cope with the factory stem and handlebar, so I'm afraid the test ride won't be 100% as informative as I would like.

[malaholic]

the reach is long, so the current stem is very short, which makes the bike "twitchy". I have the suspicion (because of the similar geometry) that I may have tweak the Vigorelli in a similar way.

Are you looking at the smallest size offered, or would you be able to go down a size to get a shorter top tube?

[pll]

Are you looking at the smallest size offered, or would you be able to go down a size to get a shorter top tube?

No idea. This is the part of the show when I feel so ignorant that I end up dropping the idea of a new bike. I'll see what the LBS recommends.

[pll]

Tested 3 bikes today:

Bianchi Vigorelli: I was quite stretched; I'm guessing it can be fixed.
Cervelo RS: *Heavenly*, it was so comfortable. I was able to do things I can never do in my bike, like get out of the saddle while on the drops; generally, pedaling while out of saddle was much easier. The position felt more aggressive than any other of the bikes, yet it was comfortable, no shifting in the saddle, did not feel overstretched.
Moots Vamoots: I wanted to test this level of bling :o. I was surprised the ride was not as comfortable as the Cervelo. Had trouble with the SRAM shifters -- they forgot to tell me how the work and I have never used SRAM before.

The ride in the three bikes was much nicer than my current bike. I also noticed that the brakes were responsive -- it could be that in the three bikes I could reach the levers better from the hoods, but it is definitely something to check if I take my bike to something like the Hilly Hundred later this year.

I was shocked by how nice the Cervelo felt. The one thing I did not like, was the sound of the chain when I coasted. I also don't like the price... Sigh. Even though I would feel fast, I think it's too much bike for me. [Permission to have a mid life crisis]

Kona Haole: Impossible to test ride within 100 miles of my place, nobody has one on stock. I'll ask my LBS if they can order one to test (one of the shops kindly offer to sell me one so I can test ride it after I own it; needless to say, I won't be their customer).

I'll go buy a lottery ticket now.

[Bike Chick]

Tested 3 bikes today:
[LIST]
Bianchi Vigorelli: I was quite stretched; I'm guessing it can be fixed.


I wouldn't guess about this. This is a major problem. Did you talk to them about modifications?

It sounds like you have found your bike. When the bike fits you correctly, you are able to stand easier. If it fits you that well, you should buy it imo. It really wasn't that much more, was it?

[pll]

It sounds like you have found your bike. When the bike fits you correctly, you are able to stand easier. If it fits you that well, you should buy it imo. It really wasn't that much more, was it?

The Cervelo ... $3,600. :eek:

I will have to test other similar bikes (at least from comparisons I found googling): Specialized Roubaix and Scott CR1 Pro. I have seen that one version of the CR1 comes with 105 components, which would put it in the $2k range. The Kona had Ultegra and the MSRP is $2500.

Oh (PS): The Vigorelli still leaves 'blah'. I would not buy unless my bike broke and there was nothing else available.

[Veronica]

What size Cervelo did you test ride? Competitive Cyclist has a 2009 RS on sale. It's a 48. :p


I love my Cervelo S3, which we got from Competitive Cyclist. It came pretty much all assembled and was nearly perfect right out of the box.

Veronica

[tzvia]

The top tube length (feeling stretched?) is a better way to 'fit' the bike than the size or stand-over. It sounds like the Bianchi Vigorelli you tested may be too big. It is also possible that the handlebar on the Bianchi may have more forward reach, drop, or be too wide, giving you that stretched out feeling. I used to ride a lovely Scapin with Colombus SLX tubing back in the 80s~90s. I loved that bike but it was too big- no stand-over issue but the TT was too long. I went the short stem, short reach bar route and that made the bike twitchy. I finally gave it to my taller niece (I'm 5'1.5") and bought a 44cm bike.

Bike Chick is right about the compact crank vs. the full size crankset. You will notice all your climbing gears are gone with the full size crank if you relied on the small ring of a triple to crest hills. Heck, you will probably notice that a good many gears are rather tall and probably not very useful. And now that SRAM makes a 11~32 ten speed cassette, you could easily get as low a gear with a compact crank as you have now on the triple, with less weight and a better chainline and less shifting (and less chance of dropping a chain) than a triple.

You didn't mention your height/inseam (or maybe I missed that somewhere?) As you have a bike now that sounds like it is a bit too big since you had to go to a short stem, measure the top tube length, and the length including the stem. (Measure stem to the center of the bar) You could then compare the sizes offered from Bianchi, Kona and other manufacturers at their websites. Match the overall length (stem+tt), then look at the TT length. That would be closer to your size than what you have now. As I'm so short, I ended up with a WSD bike, and for once I actually went to a 5mm longer stem than stock to to tweak the fit. The bike handles like it was custom made for me (it fits it fits!). While I miss the feel of steel of my old Scapin (made in Italy too...) I love that my current ride fits and that makes all the difference.

[Veronica]

Heck, you will probably notice that a good many gears are rather tall and probably not very useful. And now that SRAM makes a 11~32 ten speed cassette, you could easily get as low a gear with a compact crank as you have now on the triple, with less weight and a better chainline and less shifting (and less chance of dropping a chain) than a triple.

That cassette only works with SRAM Apex. I just traded out my SRAM Force RD for the Apex so I could put that 11 -32 cassette on my Cervelo.

Veronica

[KnottedYet]

Like tzvia said, top tube length is mighty important for fitting. We all know how to do a quick check for standover, but there is a quick and dirty way to check reach, too!

"Old wive's tale" fitting tricks.

I keep finding that the old wive's tale fitting tricks (bar obscures the hub while riding, able to drop heel slightly at DBC, can straddle bike and lift it off the floor, etc.) are actually generally pretty close.

The top-tube/stem length one might be fun to play with when you are doing test rides (it's quick!).

Place the back of your elbow against the very front end of the saddle nose. Straighten your wrist and fingers. If the over all reach (combo of top tube length and stem reach) is anywhere in your ball park, the tips of your fingers should be touching the clamp for the bar.

Now, this is totally dependent on saddle placement and length of saddle nose and all those things, but just like "can I stand over it?" will screen out bikes from consideration before you even test ride, this one could at least give you a feel for the likely reach issues of a bike you are looking at on the shop floor.

[pll]

Hi! Thanks for your responses and suggestions... please keep them coming.

Veronica: I tried a 54cm Cervelo. And, when I came home, I also found the 48cm bike in Competitive Cyclist (argh). The person who helped at the store thought it a little too big for me, so I should go back, get a better fit and possibly try a 51cm. Because the store was packed (even within minutes of opening, when I was told it would be best to be there), we did not setup any bike on the trainer to make a lot of adjustments prior to the test. All the adjustments were putting SPD pedals on, measuring the top of the seat to the pedal distance, and off I went with the stock saddle.

Tzvia: My inseam must be ~30 inches (my imperfect measurement relies on my jeans... 30" is ok with sneakers, for any heel I use 32"). The biggest hurdle with the Vigorelli is that I find it uninspiring, kind of like the 1990 Ford Tempo I had in grad school. Given the imperfect adjustments I described, I am pretty sure it could fit better had the saddle been shifted forward by 1" (there was room for moving it forward almost 1.5-2").

The three bikes I rode had compact cranks. My first bike was also the first I tested (no experience, was looking for a cheap bike), so yesterday was both my first time using a compact crank and also the first trying SRAM. I noticed the big rings were of different sizes in the three bikes, so I'm most curious about any comments and suggestions you may have. A link to a 'gears and cranksets for dummies' guide would also be most welcome (I'll be studying Sheldon Brown's pages again). Then there is also the SRAM vs Shimano issue. A colleague who races said he recommends SRAM. I have no clue! I won't race, but I want reliable shifting when I need it and, most of all, I want my hands to be comfortable. The 'cockpit' in the Cervelo was also the most comfy yesterday, but I know that the handlebar would be swapped because it was too wide and I worry that the same model won't be available in narrower sizes.

There are hardly any hills in my typical rides (Evanston to Highland Park or Lake Bluff), but later this year I'll be looking for hillier rides in WI and IN. For the short inclines we have around here, when I'm reasonable shape, there is no need to shift down.

[Veronica]

My Cervelo is a 51. I'm a hair under 5'5" with a 30 inch inseam. I had to get a shorter stem. One of my road bikes is technically a cross bike, so I'm use to twitchy. :D

As far as SRAM or Shimano... you are using Shimano now. Are you comfortable with the method of shifting that Shimano uses? I'm not talking about the components, I'm talking about the way you actually use your hands to do it. If that method works for you, why switch? Upgrading within the method, sure, but why learn something new?

I got my bike with SRAM because that was part of the REALLY good deal. But my other two road bikes have bar end shifters, so I was going to have to adjust to something new, no matter what.

Veronica

[pll]

KnottedYet: Thanks for the tips. I'll check my current bike also. Do you mean my fingers touching the clamp itself or reaching the stem. I've never checked that. I think stand over height, being able to drop the heel and blocking view of the hub are all OK in my current bike. [By the way, I have to thank you for the Chacos suggestion, which I picked from other threads a while ago -- during the summer, I walk to work in Chacos and then change to dressier shoes]

Veronica: I'm 5'7" after a nurse tells me to stand tall 3 times :rolleyes: and my 'wingspan' is about the same as my height, à la Vitruvian Man.

[tzvia]

That cassette only works with SRAM Apex. I just traded out my SRAM Force RD for the Apex so I could put that 11 -32 cassette on my Cervelo.

Veronica

I should have mentioned that you will need a medium cage RD (me bad, I forgot), you are correct but it's not just Apex, but any medium cage RD (that works with your shifters). My commuter has a medium cage Shimano (originally had a triple up front) so will work with the wide cassette (SRAM and Shimano are the same spacing). The Rival RD is also available in medium cage, and the 1070 'Rival' cassette can be had in an 11~32 as well. Heck, I even ran a 9 speed LX MTB long cage rear derailleur for a time on my commuter with Shimano road shifters 10 speed and the new SRAM cassettes will work with that RD too.

[pll]

Fit updates:

Inseam -- measured it at 31.5"

My fingers don't reach the clamp of my handlebar when i place my elbow at the front of the saddle. They remain about 1 cm from the nearest point of the actual clamp to the saddle.

[pll]

Another update -- bikes tested:


Specialized Ruby Expert (http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=52878&scid=1001&scname=Road): Not for me. Found it unresponsive, uninspiring.
Specialized Secteur Comp (http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=51623&scid=1001&scname=Road) (or was it a Roubaix?): Nicer than the Ruby, but not as exciting as the Cervelo RS
Jamis Quest Femme (http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/road/quest/10_questf.html): Very Intriguing. I rode a 51 cm one, but the area where the store was has dense car traffic and narrow roads.... I could not accelerate much, try shifting up and down, etc. And there was not even overpass to simulate the slightest incline. Would like to ride that bike and the 54cm version somewhere I can really get a sense of the bike.

[pll]

I wanted to update this thread to thank everyone that helped in my search: everyone in this thread (Bike Chick, malaholic, Muirenn, Veronica, tzvia, and Knotted Yet) and DarcyinOregon in another, for the Look Keo Max recommendation. To all of you, many, many thanks!

After many test rides and a thorough fitting, last November I bought a Cannondale Synapse 3, with a Selle Italia Diva saddle. I am extremely happy with it. I am faster and a lot more comfortable. I dream of upgrading the wheels, for no particular reason except that it would be easier to lift the bike, but I may do that if I lose some more weight. So, here she is:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_XxNs52vTrHA/TTNGdC5KGcI/AAAAAAAAby4/5CclD0h8U28/s640/IMG_0668.JPG

[zoom-zoom]

Gorgeous...I'm sorta partial to Cannondales, though. I was actually reading through the thread and about to recommend you try a Synapse and/or SuperSix... :D

[Bike Writer]

Very nice looking bike, I bet it goes fast and rides like a dream.