How can you tell.....

[BikeHN]

if a rider is new? I've heard many people talk about seeing 'newbies' out riding. I think it's funny that you can actually tell if someone is new at it, just wondering how? Is it the general 'squirreliness' on the bike?

[yellowrose93]

People probably knew I was a new rider when I fell over at an intersection. :p I'm sure there are other signs too. I can usually tell when someone isn't new--they go faster than me.

[OakLeaf]

Mostly when their bike AND all their gear is shiny new. When a rider's been riding for years, bikes get replaced, refurbished or added to, gear gets replaced, but not all at once. ;)

Poor skills is a good sign, and it's a charitable assumption that someone's new, but lots of people go years and never improve their skills. :p

Speed has very little to do with it. Some of the most experienced riders I know are also some of the slowest, just because they're so old and not as strong or healthy as they were at their peak.

[oxysback]

When their helmet is on backwards I'd guess they were new. Yes, I've seen this on a supported ride. :/

[tulip]

I can usually tell a newbie if they seem uncomfortable--either on their bike (it doesn't fit and/or they don't have a good position or core strength) or on the road (nervous riding in traffic). An experienced rider will generally seem confident and at ease, have a good position on the bike (although not always), and be drinking from the water bottle while riding. :)

[zoom-zoom]

I've only been riding since Nov. and have had several people express shock at how comfortable I seem on my bike and my ability to keep up at a pretty decent clip for many miles (my hubby says I took to cycling "like a duck to water"). Of course, the fitness/endurance thing has more to do with years of running.

My MIL has been biking for decades. Yet I suspect she doesn't know how to pump her own tires (I pumped hers for her one time and she hovered so closely that I had to ask her to back up when I was preparing to pull the nozzle off of the stem) or know how to remove/reattach her quick-release front wheel (as we have had issues with her refusing to take it off so that she can fit her bike in the back of her Rav 4 and not have our 9 year old in the front seat where he's at risk from airbag. Repeatedly she has been told that he cannot be in the front seat and there is no reason for her to have him up there when we can fit 2 bikes and 3 people in my tiny Mazda 3 hatchback). She also has fairly regular falls with her clipless pedals.

[schnitzle]

I figure everyone knows I'm new because when they say "On your left" to pass me I oversteer in response and get all "squirrely" XD Also the grip of death on the handlebars!

[zoom-zoom]

I figure everyone knows I'm new because when they say "On your left" to pass me I oversteer in response and get all "squirrely" XD Also the grip of death on the handlebars!

Ha, that was me just a few months ago. The bike-handling comfort comes pretty fast when a person keeps riding on a regular basis. Now I look back and can't believe how un-natural my bike felt at first (I had a really tough time on group rides taking my hands off of the handlebars to signal or take a drink from my water bottle). Now it feels like an extension of me. It's kind of like when I first learned to drive stick. It took all of my concentration and coordination to do it. Now it's just second-nature.

[Crankin]

Well, I guess I must appear to be new... sigh, ten years later.
I don't think I'm squirrelly, but I can barely drink from a water bottle, my (right turn) cornering sucks, and I am a downhill weenie. I know how to do the quick release, though, but I don't want to have to do it. That, or any other mechanical thing. I *know* what to do, but have never been tested on the road. I have serious mechanical anxiety when I ride, although nothing bad has ever happened. Yes, I have taken more than one class and nothing changes. I am fine in the class, but when I practice at home, I end up with my bike in pieces on the ground and a lot of tears. So, then I stop practicing.
I generally hide this very well when I ride. I ride with one group who actually think I am a "strong" rider or a couple of close friends who know they have to wait for me on the downhills.
But, I can climb.

[Zen]

Crankin, we would be good riding partners ;)

[FlyingScot]

An experienced rider will generally seem confident and at ease, have a good position on the bike (although not always), and be drinking from the water bottle while riding. :)

Yeah, so I got all cocky on my last ride and grabbed my water bottle while riding. I tried to pull the spout up with my teeth but instead pulled the entire lid off with a pop...splashed water all over the front of me. I'm too sexy for my bike...

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I figure someone is a new rider when they are:
--riding on the sidewalk when there's no compelling reason to,
--riding in the 'door zone',
--hugging the curb while riding.
--remaining on the right side of their lane in an intersection even when they are about to make a left turn.
--locking only a wheel with their cable lock. Sadly, I saw a lonely front bike wheel nicely locked to a metal fence on Main St in our little rural town last week.
--Both wheels are fairly flat while they are riding.
--saddle is set way low and their knees are bent at 90 degree angles on the upstroke. (does not apply to teenagers on teeny circus bikes, who do this normally) lol
--gigantic poofy foam saddle

:D

[Crankin]

Ha, Lisa, I think those are the things I look at, too. Your list made me laugh, especially the hugging the right curb to turn left. Somehow, that stuff seems natural to me.
Zen, I will ride with you anytime. But, you or I would have to take a trip to do that. I am seriously thinking of finding a sports psychologist, or, I can just blame my fears on my neurotic Jewish family of origin.

[shootingstar]

Ummmmmmmm..you should all go to Copenhagen. :rolleyes:

and see the variety of cyclists there. And I bet alot of them are regular cyclists. Quite a number of women who hopped awkwardly off and on their bikes yet once they were on bike, they were rolling calmly away, unflapped.

Obviously their bikes didn't fit them perfectly. And some of them rocked from side and side on their bikes. It hurts my hips just to see other people do this. :p

[huffandpuff]

Crankin I'm the same way on downhills and cornering. My brakes get quite a workout but seeing some of those crashes during the Tour De France reinforced it for me - I just don't want to get hurt on my bike! Sure sign of new is when they're mashing the living daylights out of those pedals on a little tiny upgrade - I did that for a long, long time

[BikeHN]

What is riding in the 'door zone'?

[chicagogal]

Riding in the door zone means riding in the street so close to parked cars that if someone opens a door without looking that the cyclist is likely to either be hit by the door or to ride right into the inside of the open door. This is often a very serious accident.

[Jane Honda]

I can usually tell a newbie if they seem uncomfortable--either on their bike (it doesn't fit and/or they don't have a good position or core strength) or on the road (nervous riding in traffic). An experienced rider will generally seem confident and at ease, have a good position on the bike (although not always), and be drinking from the water bottle while riding. :)

I have yet to be able to keep pedaling and drink from my water bottle at the same time.


Although, this isn't saying much... I have trouble typing and breathing at the same time...



*choke* :rolleyes:

[XMcShiftersonX]

Obviously their bikes didn't fit them perfectly. And some of them rocked from side and side on their bikes. It hurts my hips just to see other people do this. :p

I don't understand how people can ride like this either!! If you think it hurts their hips, imagine what their girly/boy bits must be feeling like! I saw someone towards the end of the Flying Wheels Century in June riding like this... how you ride 100 miles, and climb 4,000 feet with a bike that is that poorly sized, is beyond me. But, hey, it gave me and my riding partner a good distraction!

[przc]

I would say the one thing that tells me (because i used to be guilty of this ).
Looking behind you while riding and the bike goes towards the middle of the road or the curb!!! LOL

[Owlie]

There's a road around here that practically forces slower (read: bicycle) traffic into the door zone because while it's two-lane, people park in the right lane all the time, so if there's significant car traffic, you're riding in the door zone. :| I just ride with one hand on the brakes and get into the left lane as soon as possible, then back to the right once the "no parking" zone starts.

I can't grab a drink from my bottle while riding either. A proper fitting is in order once I find a bike shop here that will do it. BF's mom can't and she's been riding for years.

[PamNY]

I've seen a lot of people drink from their water bottle when they shouldn't. The question should be not "can you drink" but "can you drink and still bike safely."

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

What is riding in the 'door zone'?

http://www.riinsrants.info/bikes/doorzone.htm

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=%22door+zone%22+cyclists&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=C1X9wkNNRTN3ZFovwygStuq25CgAAAKoEBU_Qu-in&pbx=1&fp=bf2cf0ed195d636d

[malkin]

Yeah, so I got all cocky on my last ride and grabbed my water bottle while riding. I tried to pull the spout up with my teeth but instead pulled the entire lid off with a pop...splashed water all over the front of me. I'm too sexy for my bike...


I hope it was a warm day!

I can see that happening to me!

[marni]

I would say the one thing that tells me (because i used to be guilty of this ).
Looking behind you while riding and the bike goes towards the middle of the road or the curb!!! LOL

little tricks I have learned-
move you right hand towards the center of the handlebar
put most of your weight on the right arm without locking the elbow
bend you left elbow slightly and look back, twisting your upper body as little as possible.

marni

[lauraelmore1033]

I find myself wondering if someone is a newbie if they have a high dollar bike, nicely outfitted with a wealth of gadgets and goodies, expensive kit, and they're walking up a no biggie hill (ie. a hill I was able to make it up without dismounting when I was a newbie).

Also, helmetless on the wrong side of the road just reeks of newbiedom...

[zoom-zoom]

Also, helmetless on the wrong side of the road just reeks of newbiedom...

I think it reeks more of stupid and natural selection at work, than anything. :p

[jessmarimba]

Also, helmetless on the wrong side of the road just reeks of newbiedom...

Where I was from, that reeked of a poor public transportation system Especially because it was usually helmetless, wrong side of an eight lane highway wearing dark clothing.

It's sort of sad that many of those who bike because they have to (rather than want to) are the ones who know the least about what they're doing. And interestingly - at least where I used to live - were far more likely to get ignored rather than screamed at by passing motorists.

[trista]

I don't think a helmet is something that comes with experience. I think it's a cultural thing. In the cycling-as-a-sport/hobby culture you see a lot more helmets than in the cycling-as-transportation culture. I rode my bike daily to and from college for 4 years and never even owned a helmet, and never saw one on a fellow student on a bike. I lived in Europe for years and don't recall seeing a helmet on the heads of the many cyclists you see everywhere, going to and from the market or whatnot. I see Latinos here in Indy riding to and from work (I assume, since they are wearing uniforms) without helmets... I doubt that they are new to their bike, they just don't wear helmets.

[arielmoon]

Mostly I see newbies not able to hold their line. I try to stay away from them especially when they get tired.


I would also like to blame newbies for all the half wheeling (wheel overlap) in the paceline but some are not that new to be doing that.

On of my group rides just had a horrible wreck due to a newbie going for his water bottle on a down hill without one hand on the brake. He was near the front of a large group and took about 10 riders down with him.

[azfiddle]

I was a newbie last summer (a re-newbie, because I used to ride a bike a lot during high school). You could tell I wasn't one of the "cool kids" yet because I didn't wear a jersey - I was in the "t-shirt club" still. You could tell when I fell over 3 weeks in a row from my clipless pedals (although it was only on group rides). The constant refrain of "On the left!" as every other rider would pass me. Except that one time when I passed a very senior citizen on a vintage 3 speed bike.

[kcmpls]

A lot of the "newbie" things mentioned I see in my neighborhood all the time. But not by newbies, but by a) Latinos b) Somalis and c) Mormon Missionaries. All three of these groups ride their bikes a lot, but they never learn the rules of the road. They (except the Mormons) never wear helmets, are always on the sidewalk, have 3 or more people on a bike, and are on bikes that clearly don't fit them. Lots of adults on kids bikes and kids on adult bikes.

Of course, I also see a lot of people, not the missionaries, on what appear to be stolen bikes that don't fit them. Like 12 year old girls on 56cm fixed gear Surlys. And that's not just the ethnicities listed above, that's the white and blacks in my neighborhood too.

Anyhoo...

I've mentioned numerous times to bike advocates and bike groups in town that those are the groups they should be targeting for bike safety and rules of the road type outreach. But they like to stick to their English only programs and don't target the real bike commuters around the city, the low income immigrants.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Of course, I also see a lot of people, not the missionaries, on what appear to be stolen bikes that don't fit them. Like 12 year old girls on 56cm fixed gear Surlys.

When I was 12 I used to ride my big brother's 10 speed that was way too big for me, when he wasn't around. It wasn't stolen.

[kcmpls]

When I was 12 I used to ride my big brother's 10 speed that was way too big for me, when he wasn't around. It wasn't stolen.

That's why I don't call the police or bother them. It could be a legit bike. But since most of the neighborhood are on bikes from Kmart and Target, when a little girl is riding at $1000 bike, it stands out.

[snapdragen]

When their helmet is on backwards I'd guess they were new. Yes, I've seen this on a supported ride. :/

^^^This^^^ I've seen it too. :o

[Biciclista]

In Italy i saw lots of people riding on flat tires too. doesn't necessarily mean they are new riders, just with bad access to a tire pump..

I know someone is new when they are riding a decent bike but stop short in the middle of a big group ride on a hill... (that's when we rode over them!)

[Catrin]

hmmmm, these days I am sure what marks me the quickest as a new rider is my speed :o Especially in the hills, though it is overall I think. I start at the rear on organized rides because there is where I will very quickly be - so saving the time or others to pass me ;)

[nscrbug]

hmmmm, these days I am sure what marks me the quickest as a new rider is my speed :o Especially in the hills, though it is overall I think. I start at the rear on organized rides because there is where I will very quickly be - so saving the time or others to pass me ;)

Oh...you would NOT be alone back there, as I would likely be back there with ya! :p I've been riding steadily for 3 years now...I average about 5k miles a season and I still suck at hill climbing. But I'm pretty slow "overall", too. I don't really consider myself a "newbie", at least not in the same sense that I would in regards to somebody that literally "just started" biking.

Linda

[redrhodie]

I see plenty of fast newbies. Telltale signs of a newbie for me are riding against traffic, riding on the sidewalk, riding in flip flops, and running red lights.

[ny biker]

I see plenty of experienced cyclists running red lights.

Ultimately, we might think we're seeing someone who's new to the sport but we never really know one way or the other.

And we were all new once. And who cares what others think anyway?

[Catrin]

And we were all new once. And who cares what others think anyway?

Yep :) I must admit though, it is a little humbling to see everyone getting further and further away from you until they are just, gone. Thankfully I enjoy riding by myself :D

[Owlie]

Yep :) I must admit though, it is a little humbling to see everyone getting further and further away from you until they are just, gone. Thankfully I enjoy riding by myself :D

Perhaps I can join you? I'm a slowpoke and I sort of huff and puff and swear my way up hills. (Depending on the hill, of course.)

[Catrin]

Perhaps I can join you? I'm a slowpoke and I sort of huff and puff and swear my way up hills. (Depending on the hill, of course.)

You would be quite welcome :)

[sundial]

...I can just blame my fears on my neurotic Jewish family of origin.

You do know that Jews have been awarded the highest number of Nobel prizes, right? :) Look, Julia Child admitted she couldn't boil water before she figured it all out. Einstein was bored with math and performed poorly in school. I think there will come a time when you will have an epiphany and your life will never be the same again. Each day you add another page in your life. Perhaps soon you will turn a page and begin a new chapter in your life. :)

[Crankin]

Geez, I was sort of kidding. My family (at least my mom and dad) were very normal. And my mom was far more athletic than I ever was, at least when she was young.
Don't think I'll ever win a Nobel Prize, however. I might learn to hold a line while descending down a curvy, steep hill at some point, but when, I am not sure. I did hit 33 mph yesterday, on a downhill though. Thought my head was going to fly off :). I am just not sure why I find this so difficult, when the other parts of cycling have come fairly easy to me.

[BikeHN]

I feel ya Crankin! Fastest I've hit so far is 35.5mph (on a 'safe downhill'), I was feeling quite proud until I heard others after the ride talk about hitting upwards of 45mph. I know what prevents me from descending well is my head. I have this reoccuring thought that when I'm flying downhill, I'll hit a sharp rock and bust the front tire and go airborne into a ravine or face first into a tree. Yes, quite graphic I know, but nonetheless it's that thought that keeps me fearful of going downhill.

[Owlie]

I feel ya Crankin! Fastest I've hit so far is 35.5mph (on a 'safe downhill'), I was feeling quite proud until I heard others after the ride talk about hitting upwards of 45mph. I know what prevents me from descending well is my head. I have this reoccuring thought that when I'm flying downhill, I'll hit a sharp rock and bust the front tire and go airborne into a ravine or face first into a tree. Yes, quite graphic I know, but nonetheless it's that thought that keeps me fearful of going downhill.

Are you me? Well, for me it's potholes. There are lots of them (and poor attempts at their repair) around here.

[e.e.cummings]

In my mind, this is what clues me to a person who is either 'new' or may not be exactly new, but not that serious about riding:
-does not wear a helmet
-wears a helmet but does not fasten it
-cannot turn head to check behind without going off course
-cannot drink from water bottle without getting wobbly
-entire kit is spanking new - bike, clothes
-wears underwear under cycling shorts
-odd wearing of clothes - once saw a guy with a long cotton sleeveless shirt tucked into a pair of cycling shorts
-rides too fast for the situation (although these might not be new, just knobs who don't care about their safety or others)
-is not at ease with clipping in and out - really fears stopping
-someone who weaves around, is unpredictable in their riding
-takes being passed personally - hard to imagine that it is an experienced rider - or maybe just someone with a very large ego!
-someone whose bikes is overflowing with gadgets and gear, or has huge panniers for a day trip (granted, my husband is experienced, but he cannot seem to go for a day ride without packing the kitchen sink. All I need is my wallet, my keys, my cell phone, and my undersaddle kit. )
-training wheels (LOL) ;)

[Aquila]

I look in a mirror :)

Or down at my right leg, where there is ALWAYS a mark from my chain, even if I haven't gone 10 feet yet.

[BluOrchid2]

I'm not new to cycling, but in about 3 weeks all of my gear is going to be brand new. So be careful who you are poo-pooing and calling newbies. :p

I've had a hybrid bike for about 9 years. Rode it a lot for the first five years, pulling my daughter behind me in a Burley. When she got too big for the Burley, I didn't get to ride much because she was too little to keep up with me on rides obviously, and I didn't want to go off by myself on rides in the evenings when my husband finally got home from work. So haven't ridden much for the past 3-4 years, until this year.

This summer I've ridden several 20-30 mile rides, most with my husband on his hybrid bike. We decided a couple of weeks ago that we needed and deserved nice road bikes. And today he ordered them. In about three weeks, I'll be riding a 2011 Dolce Elite Apex Compact. :D

My helmet is also 9 years old (I know:eek:) and I'll be getting a new one to match my new bike colors as soon as I can find one. I bought new gloves because I lost one of my old ones. I'm getting new shoes because I'm going to have clipless pedals. I guess I can still ride in my bike shorts that I have; no need to buy new ones of those. ;)

But I guess when I take a drink and can keep from wobbling, you'll all know I'm an old pro. LOL

[Crankin]

Me, too.
I started riding in 2000.
Guess I'll always be a newbie to some.

[lisathew8lifter]

When their helmet is on backwards I'd guess they were new. Yes, I've seen this on a supported ride. :/

THAT is the best thing i've heard in a long time!!! i wonder if the helmet is more protective that way? ;)

[lisathew8lifter]

I look in a mirror :)

Or down at my right leg, where there is ALWAYS a mark from my chain, even if I haven't gone 10 feet yet.

i thought that was JUST ME! that happens to me EVERY ride! what the heck? :(

[buffybike]

I don't think a helmet is something that comes with experience. I think it's a cultural thing. In the cycling-as-a-sport/hobby culture you see a lot more helmets than in the cycling-as-transportation culture. I rode my bike daily to and from college for 4 years and never even owned a helmet, and never saw one on a fellow student on a bike. I lived in Europe for years and don't recall seeing a helmet on the heads of the many cyclists you see everywhere, going to and from the market or whatnot. I see Latinos here in Indy riding to and from work (I assume, since they are wearing uniforms) without helmets... I doubt that they are new to their bike, they just don't wear helmets.

Interesting observation--you may have a good point. Doesn't change the fact that riding w/o a helmet is reckless, however.

[marni]

Interesting observation--you may have a good point. Doesn't change the fact that riding w/o a helmet is reckless, however.

picture your brain as an egg and then drop said egg on the sidewalk. That is your brain without a helmet.

I am pretty unabashed about calling anyone who rides without a helmet an organ donor. it's a good thing whhen they take themselves out of the gene pool voluntarily.

[Catrin]

I do believe a person who doesn't wear a helmet is not an experienced, i.e., knowledgable cyclist.

I am always taken aback when out riding when I see someone (usually male) on an expensive road/racing bike, full kit and NO helmet. I really do not understand those who ride motorcycles without a helmet. Indiana has no helmet law, but really, don't they understand what happens to the skull when it hits the ground unprotected? Perhaps this comes from a belief that it can never happen to them?


-.....
-They have to walk bicycle across at a traffic light because they are in too high a gear and don't understand your instructions for how to downshift.

I will still walk my bike at most busy intersections. Not because of my shifting, but because it still takes me a little longer to start than other cyclists and I don't want to p*ss off impatient drivers. I am working on this, but in the end, will do what feels safe to do.

This is the nice thing about my country roads - I just don't yet care for urban cycling. I suspect that this is entirely related to experience though, as I get more, I will become more confident on urban roads. I just don't see the fun in having to stop for a light at every block or so... Of course there are busy intersections in the country, they are just further apart :)

[PamNY]

I will still walk my bike at most busy intersections. Not because of my shifting, but because it still takes me a little longer to start than other cyclists and I don't want to p*ss off impatient drivers. I am working on this, but in the end, will do what feels safe to do.

Catrin, you are right to do this and I don't think it's indicative of a lack of skill or experience.

I have a friend who is a long-time NYC bike messenger. He hates the same intersections I hate.

It's very interesting to talk to him about biking because he has nothing to prove -- having made his living on the mean streets for years. He's usually not wearing a helmet when I see him -- so nothing to do with experience.

[Catrin]

.....When she got to my side I changed gears for her by turning the wheel and shifting. Then she was able to ride.

Sigh. Quite a difference from being safe and cautious:)

No offense taken, just wanted to point out that there is more than one reason to walk an intersection.

That being said, it has not been all that long since I had the same problem as she did - but I at least knew how to turn my wheel and shift it into an easier gear for starting. I finally got wise and figured out that I actually can start in almost any gear - as long as I am not going up-hill. Then again, how I start prevents that from even being possible anyway :)

[socalgal59]

:pwhen I went to Speedplays I fell over on a perfectly level and smooth bike path because I forgot to kick out! I had ridden with toe clips for years and did what I always did to get my foot out of the clip--only this time it didn't work because I was attached to the pedal. So I just fell over on my side at near zero speed.:eek: At that point I had been riding for 10 yrs! Talk about embarrassing! :p