Pacer frame -vs- Mixte frame

[Catrin]

Over the winter, once I move in November, I may consider moving the components from Stella (Trek 7.6 FX) to a new frame and selling the 7.6 frame if possible. One assumes this would be less expensive than just selling the Trek and getting a new bike. If I can resist upgrading everything at the same time :rolleyes:

So I am starting the "what if" game. I love Surly, but I also like the looks of Mixte frames - and Soma has a nice one that Knotted drew my attention to not long ago.

I already have the LHT, which is a wonderful all-day-long multi-purpose bike but he isn't the fastest, though he doesn't do too badly in this department. If I do this I want to stick with steel, but it would be nice to have a bike that would go-faster, at least a little :D I hate that aluminum buzz that seems to go throughout my body so aluminum is not an option.

If all else was equal, would the Pacer or Soma Mixte be somewhat faster than my LHT? Opinions? Obviously both have a rather different geometry from my LHT.

[indysteel]

Over the winter, once I move in November, I may consider moving the components from Stella (Trek 7.6 FX) to a new frame and selling the 7.6 frame if possible. One assumes this would be less expensive than just selling the Trek and getting a new bike. If I can resist upgrading everything at the same time :rolleyes:

So I am starting the "what if" game. I love Surly, but I also like the looks of Mixte frames - and Soma has a nice one that Knotted drew my attention to not long ago.

I already have the LHT, which is a wonderful all-day-long multi-purpose bike but he isn't the fastest, though he doesn't do too badly in this department. If I do this I want to stick with steel, but it would be nice to have a bike that would go-faster, at least a little :D I hate that aluminum buzz that seems to go throughout my body so aluminum is not an option.

If all else was equal, would the Pacer or Soma Mixte be somewhat faster than my LHT? Opinions? Obviously both have a rather different geometry from my LHT.

Judging whether a given bike is going to make you faster is pretty difficult on paper. For instance, one would think I'd be faster on my Moots, as it is lighter than my steel Bianchi, but I'm faster, by a fair amount, on my Bianchi.
Why? I dunno. I'd venture a guess that the Bianchi fits me better and allows me better utilize my major muscle groups, but given that we never really could nail down what wasn't working on the Moots, it's difficult to say. Maybe it's in my head. The minute I get on the Moots, I turn into an unhappy camper.

If I'm reading Soma and Surly's bike descriptions correctly, the Soma is lighter by a couple of pounds than the Pacer and your LHT. Will that make it an appreciably faster bike? Maybe. Maybe not. You'd likely see the biggest different in how "fast" the bike climbs. None of the bikes you're interested in, however, are what I would call "light," so it's all relative.

Your speed on the bike will likely have more to do with the tires and wheels you use and, more importantly, how you set yourself up on it. Saddle height and fore/aft position have a big effect on how you utilize your glutes, quads, and hamstrings. How upright you will also have an effect on your aerodynamics.

Of course, it bears saying that training is the most important factor in speed. I actually think you'll get faster if you train consistently with that purpose, regardless of the bike. I didn't get faster by an serious degree until I started forcing myself to ride faster--by chasing after people who were faster than me. Between your work on endurance and climbing, however, I think you already have a lot of focus on right now. Give it time.

I'd also add that you might get more money for your FX if it's already built up. By the time you pay somebody to strip the parts off, it might be a wash at best. I'd run the numbers to make sure it's worth selling the bike without the parts. If it were me, I'd want to save up for better componentry if I was buying a "go fast" bike. Of course, I like drivetrain bling, so keep that in mind. :D

[Cataboo]

I'm not sure it's worth salvaging the components off your trek. I don't think the treks are all that highend, looks like the complete surly pacer sells for about $1,179 - but you'd want the flat bar conversion (which does add up).

The pacer & the long haul trucker have fairly similar geometry actually - slightly longer wheelbase on the trucker and slightly steeper seattube angle on the pacer (I'm looking at the 43 cm frame, which I think is what I remember you using) The pacer will use 700c wheels, and if you use smaller ones will go a bit faster. It won't have the heavy racks on it.

The soma mixte just is... a mixte. I don't think they're quite made to go fast (but I could be mistaken) and I think they're really about the look and having easy standover. The smallest soma takes 2 inch wheel and has a 518 mm top tube - which is about 20 cms longer than the long haul trucker and the pacer, so you may find that top tube too long for you on the mixte. How long of a stem are you running on your long haul trucker? I remember it looking short.


If I ever find a steel frame that fits me - my 43 cm surly pacer will be up for sale either in pieces or as a whole bike, so maybe you could be the 3rd TE'er to ride this frame... I'm just not sure I'll find a replacement by this winter when you're planning to upgrade. Basically, I want something with about a 45-48 cm (center to top) seattube, 73-74 degree seat angle (strongly prefer 73), and about a 520-530 mm top tube (in case anyone has a steel frame hanging about for me).

I've got a bike build half in progress, which might be a maybe for the surly replacement, I just have been waiting for pieces to pop up as opposed to actively seeking them.

[Cataboo]

If I'm reading Soma and Surly's bike descriptions correctly, the Soma is lighter by a couple of pounds than the Pacer and your LHT. Will that make it an appreciably faster bike? Maybe. Maybe not. You'd likely see the biggest different in how "fast" the bike climbs. None of the bikes you're interested in, however, are what I would call "light," so it's all relative.


I think the frames are similar - soma has their frame listed at 5 lbs, but it doesn't say which size they're weighing. surly pacer frame at 42 cms is listed at 4.2 lbs. The build is going to matter after that - and I agree, salvaging the components off the trek probably isn't work it. Whole treks have fairly good resale value.

[KnottedYet]

I suggested the mixte (and don't forget the Velo Orange, it's beautiful!) because Catrin has to lay her bike down to get her leg over it.

A mixte would be kinder on the hip, and the bike wouldn't get beat up by being lain on its side so often.

I just saw a picture of a Public mixte, I think that was sold as a complete bike rather than a bare frame like the Soma and V. O. and the price was somewhere around $800?

Anybody know of complete mixtes that are on the market?
(Riv has one, but that's thousands of $$$$)

(and at the time I made the suggestion, she was thinking of it being more of an around-town bike. Anybody know of fast mixtes besides the Soma?)

[Catrin]

I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions, just trying to wrap my brain around different options. Obviously I am not looking for a racing bike, and I am certainly still developing as a cyclist so as Indy pointed out, I will get faster over time.

My LHT is the 46cm size, and I have about 2 inches stand over, perhaps a little less. I would indeed need to do a flat-bar conversion for any complete build, and that is expensive.

Pity that aluminum beats me up so much, but I do love the feel of steel! Whatever I do it likely won't be until next year.

My bike has a new stem that came with the conversion, I am unsure of the size but will take a picture of it later if I can't find it in my paperwork from the conversion. I do not think the actual size of the stem is on the invoice.

[indysteel]

I think the frames are similar - soma has their frame listed at 5 lbs, but it doesn't say which size they're weighing. surly pacer frame at 42 cms is listed at 4.2 lbs. The build is going to matter after that - and I agree, salvaging the components off the trek probably isn't work it. Whole treks have fairly good resale value.

The Soma's weight appears to include the fork; the Surly's seem to seperate out the fork and the frame. If you add them together, the Surly's are close to, or over, 7 pounds.

But I agree that the don't indicate what size frame they're weighing.

[Cataboo]

Pity that aluminum beats me up so much, but I do love the feel of steel! Whatever I do it likely won't be until next year.

My bike has a new stem that came with the conversion, I am unsure of the size but will take a picture of it later if I can't find it in my paperwork from the conversion. I do not think the actual size of the stem is on the invoice.

Just get your fitter or us to look at the numbers before committing to the soma mixte - make sure you can deal with the longer top tube. I was about to dive back into the numbers to check out the 46 cm frame top tube, but I'd already closed the tabs.

Your trek fx has higher end components than I thought... You could try blinging the trek with some carbon to try to make the ride more forgiving. what part of you finds the aluminum harsh? I don't know what tires you have on it, but wider tires at lower air pressure are more comfy. So going a little wider and not pumping it up as much might help. It doesn't look like it comes with a carbon seatpost, a carbon one will ease the vibrations coming up through the saddle. A carbon handlebar or a carbon stem will help with vibrations coming up through the steering tube - and yes, lots of people don't like riding with carbon in those places, but I've never had a problem with my carbon handlebars or stems.

I think Zen recently sold her 7.6 fx or was trying to, so you maybe should check with her how much she sold hers for - so you know ballpark what your resale value is.

[Catrin]

I will talk with my fitter this fall and have him take a good look at the Trek. It may be that something can be done to adjust reach without replacing the bike. It came with a carbon fork, and I still feel that irritating buzz in my hands and, indeed, throughout my body on any rough road so it is likely coming through the seat post as well..

I have thought a lot about what I want out of my second bike. I don't "need" a go-fast bike. My LHT is getting faster (ok, "I" am) and I will never be interested in racing. Indeed most of my riding is solo and I like that :D If it does turn out that the Trek is just too big and/or can't solve the vibration problem - then I think a Mixte would be just the thing for me as an "about town" bike - assuming I can handle the reach. My LHT is my long-distance bike and that works for the kind of club rides I am interested in.

Of I could just sell the Trek and start a "Luna" savings account :rolleyes: :D :cool:

[Bike Chick]

Of I could just sell the Trek and start a "Luna" savings account :rolleyes: :D :cool:

You took the words right out of my mouth, Catrin. You wouldn't be sorry!

[indysteel]

I will talk with my fitter this fall and have him take a good look at the Trek. It may be that something can be done to adjust reach without replacing the bike. It came with a carbon fork, and I still feel that irritating buzz in my hands and, indeed, throughout my body on any rough road so it is likely coming through the seat post as well..

I have thought a lot about what I want out of my second bike. I don't "need" a go-fast bike. My LHT is getting faster (ok, "I" am) and I will never be interested in racing. Indeed most of my riding is solo and I like that :D If it does turn out that the Trek is just too big and/or can't solve the vibration problem - then I think a Mixte would be just the thing for me as an "about town" bike - assuming I can handle the reach. My LHT is my long-distance bike and that works for the kind of club rides I am interested in.

Of I could just sell the Trek and start a "Luna" savings account :rolleyes: :D :cool:

Now that sounds like a good plan! Margo at Luna makes beautiful bikes. From a weight perspective, her road frames are light. You'd likely sense the difference from your LHT.